https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/what-the-a-league-can-learn-from-korea-s-promotion-relegation-lessons

Interesting article that notes how quite a few of South Korea's national team players were developed in their second division.

thats a good read 

Two things apparently:

1. It wasn’t as bad as it’s opponents feared it would be. 

2. It wasn’t as good for the game as it’s supporters said it would be. 

Everything we sort of already know but nonetheless a fantastic read. 

The biggest thing for me is the pathways. I know it gets spoken about on here constantly but it’s so true. Look at someone like Aziz behich. Dropped by victory and was very very lucky to be picked up by heart. 

In in my opinion Daniel De Silva is a perfect example. Seems to have lost his way recently IMO. If he went down to a second division for a year and absolutely bosses it he comes back a fantastic player. 

Then there’s the whole coaching side of things. It would do absolute wonders for a hell of a lot of people. 

Then, imagine you scrap the cap and allow the big boys (Sydney, victory etc) to pay transfer fees for second division club players. A club like south Melbourne could make hundreds of thousands of dollars each year from producing their own players. So a team, not even in the first division is beginning to become profitable purely from having a decent academy. 

When the second division starts it will be an amazing day for me. Bring it on. 

I’ve got to say I’ve completely changed my opinion on this in the last year. I used to be completely against p/r and removing the cap, but seeing the lack of growth under the current model and lack of player development has reversed my view.

One reason is seeing CCM drag the league down. Another is looking at the early loan experience some of the EPL stars in the Belgian national squad had in their 2nd division. 

I haven’t changed my view (supporter of pro/rel) but your comment underlines one of the dangers in the thinking towards the subject - on its own pro/rel will not fix anything despite what some supporters think (that’s one of the lessons from Korea). Relegating CCM won’t fix anything either, there’ll always be a new CCM even if they do keep getting relegated. 

If the league is underfunded it will it will continue to struggle, if club owners (whether they single owners, consortiums or member based organisations) see revenue their competition earns diverted “for the greater good” they will be reluctant to invest, if the game is held hostage to an unsympathetic broadcaster it will continue to struggle, if Administrators keep fucking up it will struggle ... the list goes on. 

Pro/Rel needs to be a small part of the fix. But it is not the fix 

They are two different issues

P/R is designed to help clubs financially, develop players better, reward investment and improve the health of the game which any league depending on tens of millions of dollars of handouts requires

It is not a tool to increase attendances, ratings and the overall popularity of the game

How much money is in the Korean game now compared to before P/R? What is the financial size of the biggest clubs? How do Korea fair as a national team? How do their performance compare in the ACL? How many big international clubs are scouting their elite players?

This is more important than how many AFL / NRL fans are now watching games

Relegation promotes development because if a player or club is left behind, then they're gone. Currently there is no incentive for progression hence stagnation. I don't see how that is hard to accept. 

Is it though? Because if we want to build a better national team for the future we need to engage our whole culture around the world game. Having such a low % of the population playing football compared to world makes it extremely difficult if we managed to be the dominant sort we would automatically have a hell of a lot more talent to pick from, imagine Cyril Rioli as a winger or even keeping the players that drift out of our ecosystem into other sports. The only reason we have Riley McGree is because his local aussie rules team was full up, imagine how many world class players we have missed out on simply because they were more engaged with AFL/NRL.

They’re not “different issues” they’re two statements that basically say the opponents who feared pro/rel were wrong to be worried and secondly, supporters of pro/rel were wrong to think it would fix all the Games ills. 

Its well known that we have more registered playing numbers than the AFL / NRL

The wasted opportunity is lack of a proper player development pathway and playing opportunities. The spectator side of the game is vastly different to the player side of the game

It's both.
Using Gyfox's 2.2% base compared with 8%+ for similar countries, we are only at 1/4. Then as you say, within the 2.2%, we aren't developing people properly.

Money has been the main issue for years. 

Lets look at the main reason some Asian countries have increased their performance in recent years:

- Significant government support for the sport 

As a priority project of countries like Qatar, Vietnam and China, football has become an economic and social vehicle. This is certainly not something that we are in a position to achieve, and with club owners wanting more, the transition period is a concern.

It is important to highlight though the 5-10 years gap from 2005 (start of the HAL) in terms of the focus on youth development, which has seen numerous cracks developing in this country. We do need to get better working with what we have, but I do think that we are disadvantaged as a sport by not getting a fair share of funding from governments in particular.

The other factor that needs to be considered is the non uniformity of penetration of the game.  Penetration varies from 4.0% in FNSW, NNSWF and Capital Football, with FFT as the other federation above the national average, down to 1.1% for FV.  FV in their recently released 2019-22 Strategic Plan have set the goal of increasing registered players by 44%, i.e. 31k players, which is a great start at the growth that is needed.  Many of the lower penetration federations are due to release new Strategic Plans so hopefully they do set high targets for growth.  It is only with growth in numbers of players that we will see more clubs entering State and NPL competitions and providing a tougher development pathway for talented players so those that reach the top are significantly more developed than currently.

“In truth results have been somewhat mixed in that it has not been the cure-all that its proponents predicted but neither has it been nowhere near as bad as others foretold”

“The bigger and better the top tier, then the healthier the second [tier] will be”

Pro/Rel wont 'fix' everything but lets be honest South Korea are a mile and a half better then us. They have a larger population (but not massive) i dare say limited resources like us. 

Pro/rel will help the league on 'fix the league' 

And  FFA dont even  have a  plan for for a   2nd Divisoin!  :(

It’s not THEIR job to have a plan for a second division .... it’s the AAFC’s 

Implement it! Wow, I should be Ffa Ceo.

I know i know   Its NOT  rocket science  right? Just  do it it already  F.F.A !!

So it's NOT the job of the football association to arrange all national competitions? That should be done by a bunch of club volunteers?

In over 150 years of professional football in England the football association has never organised national competitions. instead, “club volunteers” did all the work. 

And the English have always been conservative to make change so it shouldn't of taken 150 years to transition.

The FFA have to run the whole of the game and there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that when they focus on “big ticket items” like World Cup bids, the Asian Cup and running the A-League that the whole of the game suffers. 

EXCELLENT   Point ! 
How much  do the  Suits  at at F.FA   get payed &How much do  volunteers  get payed ?  
If  the Suits at FFA  can't do  it  Then shouldget in   some new people  who  can!!

You two have to be the same person 😂

The AAFC can organise the NSD. 
The AL Clubs can organise the A League. 

Collectively $20... they are Not Salary Capped, living off the coat tails of those who putt out the product, the Players!

2.1 Objects in FFA's Constitution gives it the role of "govern(ing) football throughout Australia".  That includes "supervising and governing all State bodies, Standing Committees and Football Leagues."  There is 2 pages of these types of statements in the Objects that make it quite clear that every part of football is subordinate to the FFA as required by FIFA's Statutes.

Just to make it quite clear of the FFA's role with regard to Football Leagues 2.2 Football League states "Without limiting article 2.1, FFA may establish one or more Football Leagues, including under licence."

I'm not sure what happens in England has any relevance to what is required by our Constitution.

I don’t even know why you posted that? It has no relevance to anything that I said or, as far as I can see, anything that has been discussed in this thread? Are you sure you didn’t mean to post it elsewhere?   

Exactly. Imagine if most Aussies grew up playing football. You'd get guys like Cyril Rioli with phenomenal speed, agility, co-ordination and just feel for the game playing football instead of Aussie Rules or rugby league. There's are heaps of blokes who played AFL, as well as other sports, who (with a football culture and luck) would have the profile to be world-class attacking footballers. Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti, Patrick Dangerfield, Patty Mills (NBA, grew up with Aussie Rules and basketball), etc.

And then the less quick ones might do a great job in central midfield or central defence.

Ages ago on this forum, somebody whose English but based in Melbourne suggested that if football had the popularity and influence in Australia of AFL, Australia might well be a powerhouse nation in football. I agree. Obviously the league set-up (P/R), academies, standard of coaching, etc. would be necessary, too, even with that kind of talent pool.