Countdown To the Ashes.


Countdown To the Ashes.

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Only a month now until the famous Ashes. So who is in for us and who is out? Lets take a look first at the openers. Evidently Warner is a lock for one spot..so his partner will be drawn from either Marcus Harris, Joe Burns, or Cameron Bancroft. Bancroft is the only one of the three currently playing  Dukes red ball cricket.. so is the current front runner.. Harris is the incumbent so deserves to retain his spot. Burns big ton against Sri Lanka is putting pressure on both. Cameron Bancroft gets my vote.
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baggygreenmania - 5 Jul 2019 12:04 PM
Only a month now until the famous Ashes. So who is in for us and who is out? Lets take a look first at the openers. Evidently Warner is a lock for one spot..so his partner will be drawn from either Marcus Harris, Joe Burns, or Cameron Bancroft. Bancroft is the only one of the three currently playing  Dukes red ball cricket.. so is the current front runner.. Harris is the incumbent so deserves to retain his spot. Burns big ton against Sri Lanka is putting pressure on both. Cameron Bancroft gets my vote.

Bit of a dilemma there, Baggers.

A few have good cases.
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So what would you 16 man squads be?

Warner
Harris
Khawaja
Smith 
Head
Labuschagne
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Hazlewood
Lyon
Burns
Patterson/ Pucovski/ Wade
Wade/ Carey
Pattinson
Bird/Holland

So thats 19 players. The Australia/Australia A fixture is going to be a 24 player non-first class match to give everyone a chance. Interesting to see who the other 5 are. Id guess Bancroft, Handscomb, S.Marsh, Tremain, Siddle,  

ARNIE= LEGEND

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Marnus Labushagne has been batting beautifully in county cricket. Just remember one thing... he has been playing Div 2 of the County Championship, not Div 1.

There's a big gap in quality. Quite a few Aussie batsmen (e.g. the Marshes) have put on clinics against Div 2 teams and then been found out in the Ashes where they face Jimmy Anderson, Stuart Broad, etc. This series you can add Jofra Archer to England's attack.

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Early call

My XI for Edgbaston

Warner
Harris
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Labushagne
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Pattinson
Lyon

Almost tempted to have Patterson playing instead of Khawaja, frankly, but it's much of a muchness and Usman has experience. Enough tour matches ahead to alter that XI.
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quickflick - 12 Jul 2019 5:35 PM
Early call

My XI for Edgbaston

Warner
Harris
Khawaja
Smith
Head
Labushagne
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Pattinson
Lyon

Almost tempted to have Patterson playing instead of Khawaja, frankly, but it's much of a muchness and Usman has experience. Enough tour matches ahead to alter that XI.

Excuse my lack of knowledge as I’ve not folowed the form but where’s Hazlewood? Can Carey be squeezed in somewhere? England have played with three wickies
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baggygreenmania - 13 Jul 2019 12:37 PM
My X1: For First Test: Making some changes. Pucovski for Patterson. Pattinson for Starc.
Warner (under protest)
Bancroft
Smith
Khawaja
Patterson
Labuchagne
Paine
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon

If taking 16 players
Burns, Carey, M Marsh, Harris/ Patterson, Holland/Agar. 





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TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 9:35 AM
quickflick - 12 Jul 2019 5:35 PM

Excuse my lack of knowledge as I’ve not folowed the form but where’s Hazlewood? Can Carey be squeezed in somewhere? England have played with three wickies

Hazlewood, imo, isn't as good as James Pattinson. Pattinson's a more prolific strike bowler who can alter the complexion of a game in half a session.

Josh Hazlewood is very good. But he can go missing for ages. And, when he has played at Test level, he hasn't quite been as prolific as Pattinson. The main issue has been Pattinson's injuries. Touch wood. He's in great form right now, though.

David Saker used to be the England bowling coach. He tried to convince Pattinson to pledge allegiance to England like his brother, Darren. Darren has been capped at Test level for England. There's a reason for England's attempt to lock in James Pattinson; he's bloody good. Although if Hazlewood had a British passport, I suppose England might have tried to cap him too.

As for Alex Carey... he's a solid option. But his f/c batting average isn't too flash. He's further down the pecking order than the other batsmen, imo. Happy to be proved wrong about him or Hazlewood, though.
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quickflick - 13 Jul 2019 2:51 PM
TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 9:35 AM



Josh Hazlewood is very good. But he can go missing for ages. And, when he has played at Test level, he hasn't quite been as prolific as Pattinson. The main issue has been Pattinson's injuries. Touch wood. He's in great form right now, though.

David Saker used to be the England bowling coach. He tried to convince Pattinson to pledge allegiance to England like his brother, Darren. Darren has been capped at Test level for England. There's a reason for England's attempt to lock in James Pattinson; he's bloody good. Although if Hazlewood had a British passport, I suppose England might have tried to cap him too.



Okay, I’d (perhaps wrongly) assumed JH had been left out of the W Cup squad to save him for the Ashes.

Felt sorry for Darren Pattinson when he got brought in from nowhere for that Test vs the saffers.
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TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 4:49 PM
quickflick - 13 Jul 2019 2:51 PM

Okay, I’d (perhaps wrongly) assumed JH had been left out of the W Cup squad to save him for the Ashes.

Felt sorry for Darren Pattinson when he got brought in from nowhere for that Test vs the saffers.

You mightn’t be wrong about that at all. Hazlewood may well start at Edgbaston. I’m just saying which XI I’d select.

I think Pattinson is a better bowler than Hazlewood. And he has been bowling nicely. Cummins should be selected on account of his consistency. He’s the only Aussie seamer who has been consistent, really. Starc... against India there was an argument for dropping him. And I’m not sold as he goes missing, too. But his form has been really decent. That means leaving out Hazlewood, imo.

Unless they drop a batsman and play Cummins as a bowling all-rounder. But I think Australia’s batting is too shaky to do that.
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Yeah the situation sucked for Darren Pattinson. I feel sorry for him.
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quickflick - 13 Jul 2019 4:58 PM
Yeah the situation sucked for Darren Pattinson. I feel sorry for him.

Even his own Pommy dad stated that he was a fair dinkum Aussie 

Actually he bowled decently vs S Africa with that easily repeated action of his, didn’t have much luck really, took just 2 wkts
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quickflick - 13 Jul 2019 4:58 PM
TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 4:49 PM

You mightn’t be wrong about that at all. Hazlewood may well start at Edgbaston. I’m just saying which XI I’d select.

I think Pattinson is a better bowler than Hazlewood. And he has been bowling nicely. Cummins should be selected on account of his consistency. 

Cummins & Pattinson fit for whole Ashes would be a massive bonus for you lot I would think, just occurred to me that if Archer’s side injury limits his appearances, Wood’s dodgy ankle Flares up once more, Stokes runs lame mid match yet again and Jimmy’s injury he picked up for Lancs doesn’t heal quick we could be relying far too much on a certain ‘medium paced bowler’ much loved by  Australian media and fans alike :-)
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my 11. I'm giving starc a rest for the first game. Carried our world cup team with a niggle. Hazelwoods form has been off for a bit

Warner 
Burns
Khawaja
Smith
Patterson
Labu
Paine
Pattinson
Cummins
Siddle
Lyon
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replace the worst performing bowler with starc in the 2nd game. I just wonder if he needs a game off
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TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 7:08 PM
quickflick - 13 Jul 2019 4:58 PM

Cummins & Pattinson fit for whole Ashes would be a massive bonus for you lot I would think, just occurred to me that if Archer’s side injury limits his appearances, Wood’s dodgy ankle Flares up once more, Stokes runs lame mid match yet again and Jimmy’s injury he picked up for Lancs doesn’t heal quick we could be relying far too much on a certain ‘medium paced bowler’ much loved by  Australian media and fans alike :-)

Heres hoping both Cummins and Pattinson remain fit. Is Archer being considered for the Ashes? How is Jimmy's injury/. Are there any young quicks putting up their hand for selection? I have been watching the A matches and I dont see anyone there.
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baggygreenmania - 14 Jul 2019 1:46 PM
TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 7:08 PM

Heres hoping both Cummins and Pattinson remain fit. Is Archer being considered for the Ashes? How is Jimmy's injury/. Are there any young quicks putting up their hand for selection? I have been watching the A matches and I dont see anyone there.

Archer is pencilled in if fit/not in need of a rest  - the Ireland match on 24th may well be a Test trial so to speak.

Vic Marks has Jimmy down as a serious doubt for first Ashes Test with that low grade calf muscle tear which is keeping him out of two more championship matches...

Sam Curran is ready to play a part and I guess Woakes or even Plunkett could come back into the Test fold.

Anyway injuries often play a significant part in condensed five match series so it should be eventful all round




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TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 7:08 PM
quickflick - 13 Jul 2019 4:58 PM

Cummins & Pattinson fit for whole Ashes would be a massive bonus for you lot I would think, just occurred to me that if Archer’s side injury limits his appearances, Wood’s dodgy ankle Flares up once more, Stokes runs lame mid match yet again and Jimmy’s injury he picked up for Lancs doesn’t heal quick we could be relying far too much on a certain ‘medium paced bowler’ much loved by  Australian media and fans alike :-)

Yeah both sides are surely quite fearful of injuries preventing players from being match-fit for the entire series.

Frankly, I think England are favourites. With respect, I don't think England are anything too special at present. But I do think Australia are that bad. Particularly with rather brittle batting as soon as there's the slightest bit of lateral movement. Australia rely too heavily on their bowling. And based on the India series (at home), as soon as things started going against them, Starc and Hazlewood become fairly innocuous. Indeed, Starc ends up chucking tanties when things aren't going his way.

This is exactly the kind of attitude bowlers shouldn't have when they're playing cricket in England. They need to be pitching the ball up in that corridor of uncertainty for the batsman. The Aussie bowlers need to be very disciplined to have a hope.

With the Aussie batsmen, I think Smith is fine. Warner is patchy against the moving ball. And I'm not sold on any of the others. Australia needs to have its best batsmen competing in Div 1 of the County Championship for a solid season before the Ashes in order to be in the right place to outbat England. And that hasn't been happening.

Plus, Stuart Broad has a most annoying habit. He can be useless against plenty of opponents. But against Australia, he ends up bowling these lethal spells.
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To put the Labushagne, Bancroft and Australia A successes into context.

Labushagne's side (Glamorgan) is in Div 2 of the County Championship.
Bancroft's side (Durham) is in Div 2 of the County Championship.
Sussex is also in Div 2 of the County Championship.

I recall Mitch Marsh scoring runs for fun against Div 2 teams on tour matches last Ashes in the UK, before being schooled by Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad in the test matches.

So these successes are roughly the equivalent of the following situation: England vs Australia is coming up in a World Cup match. There are a few Aussies playing for sides such as Fulham, Burnley and Huddersfield. Those Aussies have played well against sides in the bottom half of the table but haven't actually featured against sides such as Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea.

Against England, they will face Harry Kane, Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Delle Ali, Harry Maguire and Jordan Pickford. There's a huge gap in quality between the teams they've succeeded against and the team they'll be facing. The personnel are entirely different.
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quickflick - 14 Jul 2019 4:53 PM
TokyoPom - 13 Jul 2019 7:08 PM

Yeah both sides are surely quite fearful of injuries preventing players from being match-fit for the entire series.

Frankly, I think England are favourites. With respect, I don't think England are anything too special at present. But I do think Australia are that bad. Particularly with rather brittle batting as soon as there's the slightest bit of lateral movement. Australia rely too heavily on their bowling. And based on the India series (at home), as soon as things started going against them, Starc and Hazlewood become fairly innocuous. Indeed, Starc ends up chucking tanties when things aren't going his way.

This is exactly the kind of attitude bowlers shouldn't have when they're playing cricket in England. They need to be pitching the ball up in that corridor of uncertainty for the batsman. The Aussie bowlers need to be very disciplined to have a hope.

With the Aussie batsmen, I think Smith is fine. Warner is patchy against the moving ball. And I'm not sold on any of the others. Australia needs to have its best batsmen competing in Div 1 of the County Championship for a solid season before the Ashes in order to be in the right place to outbat England. And that hasn't been happening.

Plus, Stuart Broad has a most annoying habit. He can be useless against plenty of opponents. But against Australia, he ends up bowling these lethal spells.

Quality post from a quality poster, Baggers. 

You know a bit about the game! 
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quickflick - 14 Jul 2019 5:08 PM
To put the Labushagne, Bancroft and Australia A successes into context.

Labushagne's side (Glamorgan) is in Div 2 of the County Championship.
Bancroft's side (Durham) is in Div 2 of the County Championship.
Sussex is also in Div 2 of the County Championship.

I recall Mitch Marsh scoring runs for fun against Div 2 teams on tour matches last Ashes in the UK, before being schooled by Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad in the test matches.

So these successes are roughly the equivalent of the following situation: England vs Australia is coming up in a World Cup match. There are a few Aussies playing for sides such as Fulham, Burnley and Huddersfield. Those Aussies have played well against sides in the bottom half of the table but haven't actually featured against sides such as Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea.

Against England, they will face Harry Kane, Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Delle Ali, Harry Maguire and Jordan Pickford. There's a huge gap in quality between the teams they've succeeded against and the team they'll be facing. The personnel are entirely different.

There are some interesting comments made in this post. 
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Keyboard Warrior - 14 Jul 2019 5:11 PM
quickflick - 14 Jul 2019 5:08 PM

There are some good points made in this post. 

It is no secret that Australia has a weakness against the moving ball..and boy do the England bowlers prey on that weakness. CA will not care whether Bancroft and Labuchagne are getting red ball runs against Div 2 teams.. they are getting these runs in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball. The same ball that will be used in the 5 match Ashes series. 

Warner has been making merry with white ball runs..  but put him up against a ball that only moves fractionally off the seam or in the air and he struggles. So why is he an automatic selection when we have other openers in good red ball form in English conditions?

Australia need batsmen who play the ball late or leave accordingly.. not blokes who flash at wide balls.. whether there is lateral movement or not. We need batsmen who move their feet and play the ball under their eyeline in both attack and defense not push away from their body. We need batsmen who are going to put a lofty price on their wicket. In short we need discipline in our batting lineup.

Our bowlers need to bowl at a different length to what they bowl at home. The secret is to bowl fuller and let whatever is in the deck do its job. Again the prime requisite is discipline. If Australia presents England with 11 disciplined cricketers.. we can win this series.
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baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM
Keyboard Warrior - 14 Jul 2019 5:11 PM


Warner has been making merry with white ball runs..  but put him up against a ball that only moves fractionally off the seam or in the air and he struggles. So why is he an automatic selection when we have other openers in good red ball form in English conditions?




Very good point! 
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baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM
Keyboard Warrior - 14 Jul 2019 5:11 PM

CA will not care whether Bancroft and Labuchagne are getting red ball runs against Div 2 teams.. they are getting these runs in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball. The same ball that will be used in the 5 match Ashes series. 


I respectfully disagree, Baggers (if you're saying that CA shouldn't care that the runs are against Div 2 teams).

They're getting runs in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball against very average bowling attacks. I suggest you have look at the scorecards for the tour matches of the last UK tour. You'll find that a bunch of batsmen (including the Marshes) scored buckets of runs 'in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball' against Div 2 sides before getting destroyed by Anderson and Broad.

There's a world of difference between scoring runs against crappy Div 2 bowlers and scoring runs against Anderson and Broad. The former probably won't be able to test out the batsman's weaknesses with lateral movement. They'll also bowl at least a couple of loose deliveries each over. But Anderson and Broad (and Archer and maybe Wood) will target those weaknesses.

baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM
Keyboard Warrior - 14 Jul 2019 5:11 PM

Australia need batsmen who play the ball late or leave accordingly.. not blokes who flash at wide balls.. whether there is lateral movement or not. We need batsmen who move their feet and play the ball under their eyeline in both attack and defense not push away from their body. We need batsmen who are going to put a lofty price on their wicket. In short we need discipline in our batting lineup.

Our bowlers need to bowl at a different length to what they bowl at home. The secret is to bowl fuller and let whatever is in the deck do its job. Again the prime requisite is discipline. If Australia presents England with 11 disciplined cricketers.. we can win this series.


Agree entirely!! Based on this tour match, I'd say Travis Head is making a good case. With bowlers, I'm concerned about Mitchell Starc's ill-discipline.
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quickflick - 16 Jul 2019 1:52 PM
baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM

I respectfully disagree, Baggers (if you're saying that CA shouldn't care that the runs are against Div 2 teams).

They're getting runs in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball against very average bowling attacks. I suggest you have look at the scorecards for the tour matches of the last UK tour. You'll find that a bunch of batsmen (including the Marshes) scored buckets of runs 'in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball' against Div 2 sides before getting destroyed by Anderson and Broad.

There's a world of difference between scoring runs against crappy Div 2 bowlers and scoring runs against Anderson and Broad. The former probably won't be able to test out the batsman's weaknesses with lateral movement. They'll also bowl at least a couple of loose deliveries each over. But Anderson and Broad (and Archer and maybe Wood) will target those weaknesses.

baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM


Agree entirely!! Based on this tour match, I'd say Travis Head is making a good case. With bowlers, I'm concerned about Mitchell Starc's ill-discipline.

quickflick. I recall the tour games last Ashes very well. Were against inferior attacks as that was likely a ECB directive. In none of the games was their top side picked and the decks were clearly doctored to elicit run making. I have watched several of these warm up matches on this tour and the bowling is far from crappy or even average. One or two.. if not mistaken are in the present Lions attack. The decks are not doctored either.. with good pace and movement for all the bowlers.
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quickflick - 16 Jul 2019 1:52 PM
baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM

I respectfully disagree, Baggers (if you're saying that CA shouldn't care that the runs are against Div 2 teams).

They're getting runs in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball against very average bowling attacks. I suggest you have look at the scorecards for the tour matches of the last UK tour. You'll find that a bunch of batsmen (including the Marshes) scored buckets of runs 'in unfamiliar conditions with an unfamiliar ball' against Div 2 sides before getting destroyed by Anderson and Broad.

There's a world of difference between scoring runs against crappy Div 2 bowlers and scoring runs against Anderson and Broad. The former probably won't be able to test out the batsman's weaknesses with lateral movement. They'll also bowl at least a couple of loose deliveries each over. But Anderson and Broad (and Archer and maybe Wood) will target those weaknesses.

baggygreenmania - 15 Jul 2019 3:41 PM


Agree entirely!! Based on this tour match, I'd say Travis Head is making a good case. With bowlers, I'm concerned about Mitchell Starc's ill-discipline.

Head will make the squad as he is an incumbent. Only injury can keep him out. We all saw Starc's ill discipline last summer. Worst I have ever seen him bowl. Showed some form if I recall but  far too late. You want your best quicks firing all summer. Hazlewood was also down on wicket taking form tho as accurate as ever. James Pattinson is the first quick I am picking if I was CA. Berendorff, if he is deemed to be able to stand five days of pressure bowing with his dicky back.. is another. He can swing the ball late like Starc.. tho nowhere near as quick or lethal. At least he will give you at least 5 out of 6 accurate balls and over. I have a feeling tho the selectors will stick with the usual suspects..
So expect to see Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc saddle up for Edgbaston.
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baggygreenmania - 17 Jul 2019 11:24 AM
quickflick - 16 Jul 2019 1:52 PM

quickflick. I recall the tour games last Ashes very well. Were against inferior attacks as that was likely a ECB directive. In none of the games was their top side picked and the decks were clearly doctored to elicit run making. I have watched several of these warm up matches on this tour and the bowling is far from crappy or even average. One or two.. if not mistaken are in the present Lions attack. The decks are not doctored either.. with good pace and movement for all the bowlers. As for Div 2  Labuchagne who has 1000 county runs already for Glamorgan and Bancroft who is scoring runs and captaining Durham are not profiting from crappy or inferior attacks.  Check out some footage.



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You've made less sceptical, Baggers ;)
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My X1 for Edgbaston:
Warner
Bancroft
Smith
Ussie
Pucovski 
Head
Paine
Pattinson
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon 

Res: Carey, Mitch Marsh, Labuchagne, Burns/Patterson/Harris, Starc/Tremain/Bird.
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In the same way Maxwell has unfairly not been given an opportunity in the warmup game due to one day form, Carey has been overhyped due to one day form. Carey has an average of 29 with the bat in FC and only 2 FC hundreds. Im really surprised hes being spoken about. With a squad of 16 rather than 17 set to be announced, Wade make more sense as someone who can bat (FC of 40) and take the gloves if Paine is injured

ARNIE= LEGEND

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