International Cricket General Discussion


International Cricket General Discussion

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Decentric
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I’ve been reading quite a lot about cricket on other websites, particularly Cricinfo. 

In reading about the top batters in Test cricket ATM, outside the top 4, Smith, Kohli, Williamson and Root, a few other relatively unsung batters appeared. 

Pujara- was outstanding in Aus. Also, Kohli has poor figures when his upper order fail, whilst Smith is much more effective when batting after a collapse. 

Pujara’s recent results have been outstanding. 

Two other batters, Nicholls and Latham, who I assume are Kiwis, are ranked 6th and 7th. 

I was very interested to read about this trio having had great recent success. 
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Decentric - 13 Aug 2019 9:03 AM
I’ve been reading quite a lot about cricket on other websites, particularly Cricinfo. 

In reading about the top batters in Test cricket ATM, outside the top 4, Smith, Kohli, Williamson and Root, a few other relatively unsung batters appeared. 

Pujara- was outstanding in Aus. Also, Kohli has poor figures when his upper order fail, whilst Smith is much more effective when batting after a collapse. 

Pujara’s recent results have been outstanding. 

Two other batters, Nicholls and Latham, who I assume are Kiwis, are ranked 6th and 7th. 

I was very interested to read about this trio having had great recent success. 

DC interesting stats on those two Kiwis. Have they been playing the big three tho? Paddles will tell us.
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baggygreenmania - 13 Aug 2019 9:06 AM
Decentric - 13 Aug 2019 9:03 AM

DC interesting stats on those two Kiwis. Have they been playing the big three tho? Paddles will tell us.

If you want a historical aspect of the game mate.. subscribe to Wisden.
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Decentric - 13 Aug 2019 9:03 AM
I’ve been reading quite a lot about cricket on other websites, particularly Cricinfo. 

In reading about the top batters in Test cricket ATM, outside the top 4, Smith, Kohli, Williamson and Root, a few other relatively unsung batters appeared. 

Pujara- was outstanding in Aus. Also, Kohli has poor figures when his upper order fail, whilst Smith is much more effective when batting after a collapse. 

Pujara’s recent results have been outstanding. 

Two other batters, Nicholls and Latham, who I assume are Kiwis, are ranked 6th and 7th. 

I was very interested to read about this trio having had great recent success. 

I highly think you should look at the scorecards of India in South Africa and India in England. This is very wrong in recent times. Kohli was the only Indian batsman to make runs, ABDV the only South African, and no Englishman did. England out tailed India with Sam Curran and Woakes and co.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cricket_team_in_South_Africa_in_2017–18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cricket_team_in_England_in_2018

Pujara failed in SA and England last year. But he has had a stellar career for a long time. A test specialist, he doesn't even play in the IPL anymore in recent years. He goes to county instead. Just grinds as a wall - a modern day Rahul Dravid. Has problems with the swinging ball, though. 
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baggygreenmania - 13 Aug 2019 9:06 AM
Decentric - 13 Aug 2019 9:03 AM

DC interesting stats on those two Kiwis. Have they been playing the big three tho? Paddles will tell us.

The big 3 refers to money. Not skill. Otherwise someone would need to explain how SA was #1 for so often. And why Australia and England are still not in the top 3 on the rankings - but very much part of the "Big 3".

That said, your concern does not apply to Nicholls. Nicholls has centuries against Saffirs and England (the day night match where NZ rolled England for 60 odd) - but his real crowning glory was a century in the UAE against Pakistan against Yasir Shah in full force that helped NZ win a  series there. He is currently ranked #5 in tests, with KW ranked #2. Taylor is 12=, Latham 11 and Watling 30=NZ has had a good time of it lately winning 5 series in a row vs Eng, SL, Pak, Bang, and WI. 5th day rain Rain robbed us a series vs SA. But that's cricket. Raval, currently ranked 34, averages over 60 vs SA but 8 vs England. 

Latham is a minnow basher through and through, though. His runs have all come against SL and Bang at home, Zimbabwe and West Indies. He really needs to remedy this. India, Eng and Aus are all playing us this summer. Either openers in Latham or Raval may well end up dropped at some point for Will Young if they struggle for runs. NZ has a gun not in the team, and he can bat anywhere. Taylor will get a free pass in tests, cos of services rendered and his importance to the ODI team.

Latham is fine and classical wisen-type technically, and is known as one of the premier players of spin in NZ. Which begs the question why is he opening?He has 3 modes of dismissal that are memeworthy, chasing the cover or wide off drive on the new ball and nicking it before he is set. Or looking to clip to the leg side and being lbw. Which all raises the question why is he opening? Then once he is set 30 to 50, he is famous for clipping the ball to leg straight to a fielder for out caught.

Nicholls is not at all technical like Wisden. He has some of the sweetest cut shots you will ever see, and a very good sweeper. His pull shot makes him some runs but looks awkward at times, but he hits to different areas I believe intentionally. However, he has next to no straight drive game at all. He looks to whip on the onside. Or square and cover drive if very wide. And he has a huge gap between bat and pad, and is often clean bowled through it. Even on his forward lunge defence. Nicholls basically has a game plan like Allan Border did. Without the defence as yet. But as he showed in the UAE, he can make it work against the spinners. 

Nicholls is a very square based player. Latham is 360. I believe when Watling retires, Latham will move down the order and become the wicket keeper. Latham is not an opening batsman. And despite him crushing some minnows, has not performed all that well as an opening batsman. The spanner int he worls for this happening, is Tom Blundell has been ear marked as the next test keeper, and been with the squad for 2 years now as the spare. 

Nicholls just looks more and more composed every intl innings. Even his 50 in the WC final, he just seemed like he was in control. I thought he was set for a 100 tbh. The irony is, Latham was dropped as odi opener, now Nicholls is the odi opener. These 2 swap roles per format. They're from the same province - and both can keep wicket.


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Dec, if you reading cricinfo, make sure you read Adel Fernando. He is a brilliant writer who follows SL.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/26011743/kusal-perera-bats-body-heart-soul-innings-life

He said this about what many believe is probably the greatest test innings ever, definitely of recent times anyway.

Just wonderful.

I am reading his current tour column:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/27373677/new-zealand-eye-test-dominance-amid-sri-lanka-theatre-absurd

Sri Lanka, meanwhile, are an acid trip in cricketing form. Incremental progress? Ha ha. What is that? Consistent selection? Get out of here with that nonsense. They are either a garbage heap festering away in the afternoon sun, as was the case on their Test tour of Australia earlier this year when they were smashed 2-0, and sacked and dropped their captain, and lost their entire fast-bowling attack to injury. Or they are a rapturous weeks-long party, as was the case in South Africa just after, when one of their most unreliable batsmen produced possibly the greatest Test innings of all time, before they went on to become the first Asian team to clinch a Test series in South Africa, whilst their coach was looking over his back wondering whether he was himself going to be fired, and a new captain was handed what had seemed to be the most abject of losing hands...To even label New Zealand the straight man and Sri Lanka the joker is to do injustice to Sri Lanka's raging mood swings. If these two sides were a comedic double act, Sri Lanka would dazzle on some evenings, the audience in stitches, tears spilling down their cheeks. On other nights, Sri Lanka would be in full-scale meltdown, setting the venue ablaze, sending paying customers to fiery graves.... Sri Lanka, meanwhile, are playing under an interim coach for the umpteenth time this decade. So, who can actually bloody work out what they will be like? It hurts your head to even try.


He is a brilliant and candid writer. But its true. Sri Lanka have become the new Pakistan after beating SA in SA but losing to England at home.
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Paddles - 13 Aug 2019 10:54 AM
baggygreenmania - 13 Aug 2019 9:06 AM

The big 3 refers to money. Not skill. Otherwise someone would need to explain how SA was #1 for so often. And why Australia and England are still not in the top 3 on the rankings - but very much part of the "Big 3".

That said, your concern does not apply to Nicholls. Nicholls has centuries against Saffirs and England (the day night match where NZ rolled England for 60 odd) - but his real crowning glory was a century in the UAE against Pakistan against Yasir Shah in full force that helped NZ win a  series there. He is currently ranked #5 in tests, with KW ranked #2. Taylor is 12=, Latham 11 and Watling 30=NZ has had a good time of it lately winning 5 series in a row vs Eng, SL, Pak, Bang, and WI. 5th day rain Rain robbed us a series vs SA. But that's cricket. Raval, currently ranked 34, averages over 60 vs SA but 8 vs England. 

Latham is a minnow basher through and through, though. His runs have all come against SL and Bang at home, Zimbabwe and West Indies. He really needs to remedy this. India, Eng and Aus are all playing us this summer. Either openers in Latham or Raval may well end up dropped at some point for Will Young if they struggle for runs. NZ has a gun not in the team, and he can bat anywhere. Taylor will get a free pass in tests, cos of services rendered and his importance to the ODI team.

Latham is fine and classical wisen-type technically, and is known as one of the premier players of spin in NZ. Which begs the question why is he opening?He has 3 modes of dismissal that are memeworthy, chasing the cover or wide off drive on the new ball and nicking it before he is set. Or looking to clip to the leg side and being lbw. Which all raises the question why is he opening? Then once he is set 30 to 50, he is famous for clipping the ball to leg straight to a fielder for out caught.

Nicholls is not at all technical like Wisden. He has some of the sweetest cut shots you will ever see, and a very good sweeper. His pull shot makes him some runs but looks awkward at times, but he hits to different areas I believe intentionally. However, he has next to no straight drive game at all. He looks to whip on the onside. Or square and cover drive if very wide. And he has a huge gap between bat and pad, and is often clean bowled through it. Even on his forward lunge defence. Nicholls basically has a game plan like Allan Border did. Without the defence as yet. But as he showed in the UAE, he can make it work against the spinners. 

Nicholls is a very square based player. Latham is 360. I believe when Watling retires, Latham will move down the order and become the wicket keeper. Latham is not an opening batsman. And despite him crushing some minnows, has not performed all that well as an opening batsman. The spanner int he worls for this happening, is Tom Blundell has been ear marked as the next test keeper, and been with the squad for 2 years now as the spare. 

Nicholls just looks more and more composed every intl innings. Even his 50 in the WC final, he just seemed like he was in control. I thought he was set for a 100 tbh. The irony is, Latham was dropped as odi opener, now Nicholls is the odi opener. These 2 swap roles per format. They're from the same province - and both can keep wicket.


Great post, Paddles. 
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NZ off to a terrible start. Both openers gone - 33 and 30 - and KW for a duck. Pitch is turning big on day 1 before lunch.

Latham dismissal was terrible batting. Just left his bat hanging out and watched the ball hit the edge on a 6th stump line. 

KW got beaten second ball where he was caught trying to sweep but the ball was too short so he had to improvise and clip it but found a fielder.
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Sigh - NZ in huge trouble at 170 for 5. And a batsman short.
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With the warmup game all but entirely washed out so that no NZ batsman got a single hit, the first test started badly for NZ. NZ was never able to demonstrate its batting dominance over SL, and despite posting a competitive 249 to defend in the 4th innings, a wonderful Karunaratne (c) century saw SL home with able support from his opening partner and Mathews. Santner who did nothing all game and I would not have picked anyway, was dropped and replaced by CdG's greater batting and very handy swing and seam.

Come the second test, in between constant rain, NZ lost the toss and looked set to be batting last. But fate took a different turn, as the NZ batting machine rumbled into gear, with motm Latham posting 150, mots Watling another gritty 100 and CdG carving the bowlers for a better than a run a ball 80 to set up an innings victory and 65 runs within the rain reduced time allowed. Bare in mind NZ declared early on the 5th day, when it could have batted on and on and posted well in excess of 500 had the rain not come. All the bowlers took a wicket as SL were skittled for 122 in 70 overs, just before bad light would have made the match a draw. 

Its disappointing that its only a 2 match series, NZ really are a superior team to SL right now, even in their backyard. Despite the positives, a terrible series for Jeet Raval, who knows once Will Young is fit, he is under real pressure to keep his spot. Kane Williamson had a rare two test failure, scoring 4, 0, and 20. Tom Latham on the other hand, should join Henry and Kane in the top 10 batsman rankings after 220+ runs in 3 innings. Watling should join Taylor in the top 20 after 180 odd runs for once out in three innings leaving this a rare moment in NZ batting quality. While Taylor and Williamson get the plaudits, Watling and Nicholls have contributed a lot at vital times. Latham who I firmly believe is not an opener, does get the job done vs spin, with 3 centuries now in Asia vs Pak and SL. Raval appears to be the weaker link. But Will Young is just around the corner. CdG - the #7 allrounder - is now nearly averaging 40...



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Paddles - 27 Aug 2019 6:32 PM
With the warmup game all but entirely washed out so that no NZ batsman got a single hit, the first test started badly for NZ. NZ was never able to demonstrate its batting dominance over SL, and despite posting a competitive 249 to defend in the 4th innings, a wonderful Karunaratne (c) century saw SL home with able support from his opening partner and Mathews. Santner who did nothing all game and I would not have picked anyway, was dropped and replaced by CdG's greater batting and very handy swing and seam.

Come the second test, in between constant rain, NZ lost the toss and looked set to be batting last. But fate took a different turn, as the NZ batting machine rumbled into gear, with motm Latham posting 150, mots Watling another gritty 100 and CdG carving the bowlers for a better than a run a ball 80 to set up an innings victory and 65 runs within the rain reduced time allowed. Bare in mind NZ declared early on the 5th day, when it could have batted on and on and posted well in excess of 500 had the rain not come. All the bowlers took a wicket as SL were skittled for 122 in 70 overs, just before bad light would have made the match a draw. 

Its disappointing that its only a 2 match series, NZ really are a superior team to SL right now, even in their backyard. Despite the positives, a terrible series for Jeet Raval, who knows once Will Young is fit, he is under real pressure to keep his spot. Kane Williamson had a rare two test failure, scoring 4, 0, and 20. Tom Latham on the other hand, should join Henry and Kane in the top 10 batsman rankings after 220+ runs in 3 innings. Watling should join Taylor in the top 20 after 180 odd runs for once out in three innings leaving this a rare moment in NZ batting quality. While Taylor and Williamson get the plaudits, Watling and Nicholls have contributed a lot at vital times. Latham who I firmly believe is not an opener, does get the job done vs spin, with 3 centuries now in Asia vs Pak and SL. Raval appears to be the weaker link. But Will Young is just around the corner. CdG - the #7 allrounder - is now nearly averaging 40...



I think Latham is currently ranked 6th in the world, Paddles.
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Decentric - 28 Aug 2019 8:53 AM
Paddles - 27 Aug 2019 6:32 PM

I think Latham is currently ranked 6th in the world, Paddles.

He was 12th when I wrote that. They updated the rankings the day after the three tests concluded in English time. Latham is now 8th. Giving NZ 3 in the top 10. I don't recall this happening before - and could only have with KW, McCullum and Taylor around 2014 sic maybe 2015 at some point.... Maybe 85/86 with Crowe, Reid and maybe.... Coney/Wright.... but doubtful....

Good times for NZC :)

I am surprised though that Watling is still 27th and didn't move up far... I thought he would bust the top 20 after all those runs... he is 23 points from 19th which is really just a century next innings to be fair, though as he is on only 620 points
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https://twitter.com/afidelf/status/1165858569641611266

lol - I'm glad someone came out and said it.
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On another matter - Jasprit Bumrah has been bowling rockets in the West Indies and got a hat-trick this morning in a six wicket spell. 

Even with the weak batting lineup of the Windies, the highlights are something to behold. 
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Lastbroadcast - 1 Sep 2019 2:22 PM
On another matter - Jasprit Bumrah has been bowling rockets in the West Indies and got a hat-trick this morning in a six wicket spell. 

Even with the weak batting lineup of the Windies, the highlights are something to behold. 

Thanks.

I'll chase them up.
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Afghanistan playing Bangladesh in a one off test. Bangladesh picked 4 spinners and I think Afghanistan picked 3 spinners. 

Currently Afghanistan are 191/3 with Rahmat Shah 97*

ARNIE= LEGEND

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Rahmat Shah becomes the first ever Afghani to score a test hundred. Gets out the next ball.

ARNIE= LEGEND

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RedKat - 5 Sep 2019 7:37 PM
Rahmat Shah becomes the first ever Afghani to score a test hundred. Gets out the next ball.

Great post. AFG batting is a big problem. Too often Nabi looks the best batsman after Shezhad's succesful slogs.
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RedKat - 5 Sep 2019 7:37 PM
Rahmat Shah becomes the first ever Afghani to score a test hundred. Gets out the next ball.

This is great news!
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Ashgar Afghan just misses becoming the second being out for 92. Some great tail slogigng and shielding the tail from Rashid Khan as hes hit 50 off 50 with Afghanistan 341/9

ARNIE= LEGEND

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RedKat - 6 Sep 2019 3:24 PM
Ashgar Afghan just misses becoming the second being out for 92. Some great tail slogigng and shielding the tail from Rashid Khan as hes hit 50 off 50 with Afghanistan 341/9

I can't believe how good Afghanistan are considering their domestic turmoil.
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Rashid Khan gets shakib al Hassan. Bangladesh in trouble at 88/4. Be interesting to see if they can keep going. We recently saw Ireland on top against England but lacking the experience to finish the job 

ARNIE= LEGEND

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Looks like rain might have ruined Afghanistan's chance of beating Bangladesh
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City Sam - 9 Sep 2019 7:26 PM
Looks like rain might have ruined Afghanistan's chance of beating Bangladesh

:(
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And Afghanistan have just defeated Bangaldesh by 224 runs. Got down to 3 overs remaining in the day. Rashid Khan the hero with a first innings 50 and 11 wickets for the match.

ARNIE= LEGEND

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RedKat - 9 Sep 2019 9:22 PM
And Afghanistan have just defeated Bangaldesh by 224 runs. Got down to 3 overs remaining in the day. Rashid Khan the hero with a first innings 50 and 11 wickets for the match.

OMG - i stopped following this. Excellent news. Thanks for the post redkat!!!

Off to check the scorecard....

Great day for intl cricket. Bangladesh have taken down Aus and Eng, and humbled by Afghanistan.

Cricket needs more participants. And this shows just how possible it is in a short time frame.
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Discussing with Decentric got me thinking, about a topic I often think about. What is world class?

1908P.J. CumminsAUS914 v England, 18/08/2019
2851K. RabadaSA902 v Australia, 12/03/2018
3835J.J. BumrahIND835 v West Indies, 02/09/2019
4814J.M. AndersonENG903 v India, 13/08/2018
4814J.O. HolderWI814 v India, 02/09/2019
6813V.D. PhilanderSA912 v India, 22/12/2013
7795T.A. BoultNZ825 v England, 25/05/2015
8785N. WagnerNZ801 v Bangladesh, 12/03/2019
9780K.A.J. RoachWI780 v India, 02/09/2019
10770Mohammad AbbasPAK838 v New Zealand, 19/11/2018
11764R.A. JadejaIND899 v Australia, 20/03/2017
12758J.R. HazlewoodAUS863 v India, 08/03/2017
13754T.G. SoutheeNZ799 v West Indies, 12/06/2014
14747R. AshwinIND904 v England, 12/12/2016
15731S.C.J. BroadENG880 v South Africa, 18/01/2016
16710Yasir ShahPAK878 v England, 18/07/2016
17698M.A. StarcAUS805 v Pakistan, 19/12/2016
18680Mohammad ShamiIND703 v South Africa, 28/01/2018
18680S.T. GabrielWI757 v Bangladesh, 14/07/2018
20677I. SharmaIND677 v West Indies, 02/09/2019
21674N.M. Lyon
Here is the current top 21 bowlers. Now, what some of you may not know, is that a bowler needs a 100 wickets before they are not penalised. This means Bumrah on 60 something wickets, is massively penalised right now, and so is Abbas on 60 something wickets. The difference this makes is huge, cos Bumrah, having played in SA, Eng and Aus all recently like Cummins, has averaged 19 for his career striking at 43 with over 5 wickets per test. Cummins is also a very impressive 5 per test, but at 21 average at 46 and has a massive lead over Bumrah. Another example, is Holder with 101 wickets at 27 striking at 63, is higher than Abbas at 19 striking at 46. So now you will understand the penalty system. But most the following bowlers have 100 wickets. Abbas and Bumrah are recent freaks to world test cricket. 

But lets look closer at the list.

WI - Holder and Roach are both in the top 10. But noone really seems to rate them nor discuss them. They have Gabriel in 18th. But noone is really calling them world class. But 2 in the top 10. They do love to outbowl England, though. And were very impressive against India, but their own batting was diabolical to the point cricinfo wrote an article reminding everyone how well Roach had bowled despite Bumrah turning the series into his own highlights package.

SA - they have Rabada and Philander in the top 10, and everyone agrees that they are world class, they also have Ngidi, and Nortje. So SA is world class? I'm fine with this, but after losing Steyn, Abbot, MMorkel, Olivier, they do need Ngidi to carry on as he has started which is averaging 19 and striking at 41. He averages 17 v India and 15 v Australia, so I like his chances he avoids touring SL soon. 

NZ - Boult and Wagner in the top 10. But noone is calling them world class right? 13th for Southee. But NZ's attack is not world class. And that's fine by me. I would like to see Ferguson given a go as 4th seamer for a reason, too. This attack needs to roll SA or Aus to be world class. Its not able to claim this world class label yet.

England - well they only have Jimmy in the top 10. Broad at 15th. Archer will be there soon enough one would feel, though. But are they world class? Woakes, Wood, TRJ, Stone, Overton... The English commentators tell me they are. Maybe with TRJ they could have been. But Archer only just got on the scene and I've been told they're world class for years. Jimmy dominates at home, does much less away. All the hopes for the future lie on Archer and Stone. They were outbowled in the Windies and had to call in Wood to add some muscle, but this was pre Archer debuting. I am not calling this attack worldclass as yet. I think Archer will be, I don't know if Anderson will ever return, and I don't know enough about Stone. I don't know if Wood can shakes years of mediocrity, and I don't rate Stuart Broad. I just don't.

Aus - Cummins at #1, going great guns, but only top 10 member, but Haze at 12 and Starc at 17. Is this World Class? I'll tread lightly here as an Australian forum. Its ranking below WI and NZ. 

India, well since Bumrah, we are now told all the time they have a WC seam attack. Bumrah is the only one in the top 3, with Sharma 20 and Shami 18th. But India is of course different with all their spin tracks at home, and Jadeja is 11th and Ashwin 14th. They also have BK as a spare seamer, and hopefully they will not select Yadav again any time soon unless its against NZ. So India for mine, depsite ranking below Aus, NZ and WI, is possibly the better attack for mine. But if Bumrah gets injured, everything changes. Instantly. When India tour here this summer, more will be revealed about their current seam attack. And NZ's for that matter.

Pak has Abbas in the top 10, and Shenwari, Afridi, (63) and Hasan (43) Ali do not yet rank. With Amir 31 retired. Some raw and undeniable talent, but clearly not world class proven yet I think is the safest opinion here. Its a very new, young, and inexperienced attack.

So which attacks are world class? How many can be world class? 

For mine, SA is world class. No doubt. But I am counting on Ngidi to continue on his merry way. But I have seen nothing to suggest he won't. Fitness is more of a concern for him. But they rate this Nortje kid too. 

India lost in SA to Rabada and Ngidi, and lost in England to a Curran batting and Anderson bowling, won in Aus vs a Smithless Australia. They completely outbowled the Aus attack. And Bumrah is now bowling inswingers and outswingers at will, with Shami bowling 140 outswing, and Sharma line and length with an inswinger.  

Okay, so if I call the Indian attack world class. I now already have 2 world class attacks.

But NZ and WI rate higher than the Indian attack on ratings. For whatever that is worth. NZ outbowled WI here due a to a short barrage, that Gabriel later served up to England. So these attacks are not really world class?

Which then leaves Australia, outbowled by India, ranking lower that NZ and WI, as world class? How is that possible? Is Cummins that good? Is that the difference? The 3 spear heads of Bumrah, Cummins, and Rabada just the attack around them? But if that were so, that would make the player world class not the attack. 

Am I being too harsh, or is world class just totally overused as a term? 

SL has Lakmal and Kumara, which is certainly better than Bangladesh which is a bit pop gun. But SL needs to develop Chameera and further support for these guys. Ireland's Murtagh is a fabulous cricketer. But he pretyt much is the attack.
Edited
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Paddles - 10 Sep 2019 9:51 AM
Discussing with Decentric got me thinking, about a topic I often think about. What is world class?

1908P.J. CumminsAUS914 v England, 18/08/2019
2851K. RabadaSA902 v Australia, 12/03/2018
3835J.J. BumrahIND835 v West Indies, 02/09/2019
4814J.M. AndersonENG903 v India, 13/08/2018
4814J.O. HolderWI814 v India, 02/09/2019
6813V.D. PhilanderSA912 v India, 22/12/2013
7795T.A. BoultNZ825 v England, 25/05/2015
8785N. WagnerNZ801 v Bangladesh, 12/03/2019
9780K.A.J. RoachWI780 v India, 02/09/2019
10770Mohammad AbbasPAK838 v New Zealand, 19/11/2018
11764R.A. JadejaIND899 v Australia, 20/03/2017
12758J.R. HazlewoodAUS863 v India, 08/03/2017
13754T.G. SoutheeNZ799 v West Indies, 12/06/2014
14747R. AshwinIND904 v England, 12/12/2016
15731S.C.J. BroadENG880 v South Africa, 18/01/2016
16710Yasir ShahPAK878 v England, 18/07/2016
17698M.A. StarcAUS805 v Pakistan, 19/12/2016
18680Mohammad ShamiIND703 v South Africa, 28/01/2018
18680S.T. GabrielWI757 v Bangladesh, 14/07/2018
20677I. SharmaIND677 v West Indies, 02/09/2019
21674N.M. Lyon
Here is the current top 21 bowlers. Now, what some of you may not know, is that a bowler needs a 100 wickets before they are not penalised. This means Bumrah on 60 something wickets, is massively penalised right now, and so is Abbas on 60 something wickets. The difference this makes is huge, cos Bumrah, having played in SA, Eng and Aus all recently like Cummins, has averaged 19 for his career striking at 43 with over 5 wickets per test. Cummins is also a very impressive 5 per test, but at 21 average at 46 and has a massive lead over Bumrah. Another example, is Holder with 101 wickets at 27 striking at 63, is higher than Abbas at 19 striking at 46. So now you will understand the penalty system. But most the following bowlers have 100 wickets. Abbas and Bumrah are recent freaks to world test cricket. 

But lets look closer at the list.

WI - Holder and Roach are both in the top 10. But noone really seems to rate them nor discuss them. They have Gabriel in 18th. But noone is really calling them world class. But 2 in the top 10. They do love to outbowl England, though. And were very impressive against India, but their own batting was diabolical to the point cricinfo wrote an article reminding everyone how well Roach had bowled despite Bumrah turning the series into his own highlights package.

SA - they have Rabada and Philander in the top 10, and everyone agrees that they are world class, they also have Ngidi, and Nortje. So SA is world class? I'm fine with this, but after losing Steyn, Abbot, MMorkel, Olivier, they do need Ngidi to carry on as he has started which is averaging 19 and striking at 41. He averages 17 v India and 15 v Australia, so I like his chances he avoids touring SL soon. 

NZ - Boult and Wagner in the top 10. But noone is calling them world class right? 13th for Southee. But NZ's attack is not world class. And that's fine by me. I would like to see Ferguson given a go as 4th seamer for a reason, too. This attack needs to roll SA or Aus to be world class. Its not able to claim this world class label yet.

England - well they only have Jimmy in the top 10. Broad at 15th. Archer will be there soon enough one would feel, though. But are they world class? Woakes, Wood, TRJ, Stone, Overton... The English commentators tell me they are. Maybe with TRJ they could have been. But Archer only just got on the scene and I've been told they're world class for years. Jimmy dominates at home, does much less away. All the hopes for the future lie on Archer and Stone. They were outbowled in the Windies and had to call in Wood to add some muscle, but this was pre Archer debuting. I am not calling this attack worldclass as yet. I think Archer will be, I don't know if Anderson will ever return, and I don't know enough about Stone. I don't know if Wood can shakes years of mediocrity, and I don't rate Stuart Broad. I just don't.

Aus - Cummins at #1, going great guns, but only top 10 member, but Haze at 12 and Starc at 17. Is this World Class? I'll tread lightly here as an Australian forum. Its ranking below WI and NZ. 

India, well since Bumrah, we are now told all the time they have a WC seam attack. Bumrah is the only one in the top 3, with Sharma 20 and Shami 18th. But India is of course different with all their spin tracks at home, and Jadeja is 11th and Ashwin 14th. They also have BK as a spare seamer, and hopefully they will not select Yadav again any time soon unless its against NZ. So India for mine, depsite ranking below Aus, NZ and WI, is possibly the better attack for mine. But if Bumrah gets injured, everything changes. Instantly. When India tour here this summer, more will be revealed about their current seam attack. And NZ's for that matter.

Pak has Abbas in the top 10, and Shenwari, Afridi, (63) and Hasan (43) Ali do not yet rank. With Amir 31 retired. Some raw and undeniable talent, but clearly not world class proven yet I think is the safest opinion here. Its a very new, young, and inexperienced attack.

So which attacks are world class? How many can be world class? 

For mine, SA is world class. No doubt. But I am counting on Ngidi to continue on his merry way. But I have seen nothing to suggest he won't. Fitness is more of a concern for him. But they rate this Nortje kid too. 

India lost in SA to Rabada and Ngidi, and lost in England to a Curran batting and Anderson bowling, won in Aus vs a Smithless Australia. They completely outbowled the Aus attack. And Bumrah is now bowling inswingers and outswingers at will, with Shami bowling 140 outswing, and Sharma line and length with an inswinger.  

Okay, so if I call the Indian attack world class. I now already have 2 world class attacks.

But NZ and WI rate higher than the Indian attack on ratings. For whatever that is worth. NZ outbowled WI here due a to a short barrage, that Gabriel later served up to England. So these attacks are not really world class?

Which then leaves Australia, outbowled by India, ranking lower that NZ and WI, as world class? How is that possible? Is Cummins that good? Is that the difference? The 3 spear heads of Bumrah, Cummins, and Rabada just the attack around them? But if that were so, that would make the player world class not the attack. 

Am I being too harsh, or is world class just totally overused as a term? 

SL has Lakmal and Kumara, which is certainly better than Bangladesh which is a bit pop gun. But SL needs to develop Chameera and further support for these guys. Ireland's Murtagh is a fabulous cricketer. But he pretyt much is the attack.

I expect Hazlewoods 3 tests - 18 @16.8 s/r 40.4 with a game to play. will jump him several places. Cummins 4 tests - 24 @17.4  s/r 41 will retain his #1 spot. Starc will stay where he is on 17 or perhaps even drop.
Edited
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baggygreenmania - 10 Sep 2019 11:07 AM
Paddles - 10 Sep 2019 9:51 AM

I expect Hazlewoods 3 tests - 18 @16.8 s/r 40.4 with a game to play. will jump him several places. Cummins 4 tests - 24 @17.4  s/r 41 will retain his #1 spot. Starc will stay where he is on 17 or perhaps even drop.

No - the list was done 2 September. Its only missing the last test. Hazelwood didn't move up at all from the first 2 tests he played. Starc went up cos Gabriel went down losing points vs India. Cummins will keep #1, but he lost 6 points in 2nd and 3rd tests.

Because the English batting is rated so poorly, your bowlers are just as likely to lose points like Cummins has been. Root is 6th, Stokes 13th, then Bairstow in 32nd.. Butler 41... Burns 67 below Paine.. But there is a win bonus - which should help the Aussie bowlers.

:P
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Paddles - 10 Sep 2019 11:16 AM
baggygreenmania - 10 Sep 2019 11:07 AM

No - the list was done 2 September. Its only missing the last test. Hazelwood didn't move up at all from the first 2 tests he played. Starc went up cos Gabriel went down losing points vs India. Cummins will keep #1, but he lost 6 points in 2nd and 3rd tests.

Because the English batting is rated so poorly, your bowlers are just as likely to lose points like Cummins has been. Root is 6th, Stokes 13th, then Bairstow in 32nd.. Butler 41... Burns 67 below Paine.. But there is a win bonus - which should help the Aussie bowlers.

:P

Impressive knowledge.

Where do you learn all this stuff, Paddles?
GO


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