Sam, I agree with you on virtually all of that. The only thing I disagree on his use of his bowlers. I think he has rotated them very well and it was a masterstroke to open with Pat Cummins on Day 4 in at Old Trafford. But Tim Paine's use of the DRS stopped us from winning the Leeds Test. It was infuriating. Also you're right about his field placings (especially when by not bringing the field up early enough against Ben Stokes in Leeds). Pathetically conservative.

That said, I respect Paine for his graciousness in defeat. I reckon the atmosphere in the Australian dressing room has improved immeasurably with him as skipper. And I'm happy with how they went to Leeds after the defeat at Old Trafford.

I agree that Steve Smith, Josh Hazlewood and Pat Cummins have been out of this world good.

One thing more. Australia haven't won the series (yet). They've simply retained the Ashes by virtue of removing the possibility of losing the series.

Is that what it was?

On Lyon he has issues with the callous on his finger splitting and they were showing it at the time. Makes it very hard to hold the ball 

Looking for his precious!! Rofl! Would have liked to have seen more of Behrendorff in England, beyond the World Cup. Opportunity missed.

I dont quite get your argument. Mike was talking form. But on recent form and performances over the past 2 years, SA wouldn't take Philander (18.4), Ngidi (19.5) over Hazelwood with Rabada (19)? Or Holder (18.4) and Roach (19.4) for WI? Gabriel is going along at 27. Or Boult (23.17) and Wagner (23.4), let alone Southee (22.7) for NZ? India doesn't even have room for BK (16.6 and dropped!!!) right now. Nor Yadav (24.2). Sharma is averaging 20.65! Shami 26.2. Bumrah 19.2. Shami is very lucky to play ahead of BK. Very lucky. But injury happened to BK in England last year in the limited overs games, and Kohli wanted to keep the same attack together from then on. Shami got lucky. Since then India just won at home, in Aus, in WI, so why change it back?

Hazelwood is going along at 26.82...

I seriously do not see how Hazelwood is getting into any of the top 3 ranked teams in world cricket right now on form. 

And I don't think he would even replace Gabriel for the WI... but Gabriel will fall apart soon. He's too burly to keep bowling at the pace he is for much longer, he is getting long in the tooth. 

Its great Hazelwood is cleaning up a team with only 2 batsmen in the world top 30, but that is what it is. But England has been steam rolled by WI, NZ, and Ire seamers for sub 100 scores of late. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=bowling_average;page=2;spanmin1=05+Sep+2017;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Cummins is the class of the three best fast bowlers in the world right now with Rabada and Bumrah so Id say hed make every team. 

For Hazlewood, well for New Zeland Hazlewood would make it over Wagner or Southee. Has a better average than both. For South Africa Morkel and Steyn has retired, Olivier has taken up a Kolpak. After Rabada but theyve some talented but inexperienced players coming through so thats easy. For Pakistan, Aamir has retired from first class cricket so Id fit him in there. 

Cummins averages 20.15 on the link and a SR of 44.1. Bumrah has an average of 19.24 and a SR of 43.7. With the the praise Bumrahs getting as the best fast bowler in the world right now (and deservedly so) Cummins is not far behind at all. Cummins is also the highest wicket taker in that period

Mike - check out the intl cricket discussion thread. I pose the very same question about the 

Indian, West Indian, South African, English, Pak, NZ and Aus attacks.

Broad has to be the most talked about, and talked upped, ordinary test cricketer I have ever encountered. 

Thanks Baggers but the bush fires affect my in laws not myself, just helping them out.

I'll look at the last 2 years is that current enough for you Baggers and it includes current series. Here are the leading bowlers I've had to put stipulations of 5 matches just so you can see where Hazlewood lies, otherwise you'd be looking on page 2, that might say something in it self.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=05+Sep+2017;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Assume 3 pace and 1 spinner. Remember you want the best performers bowling for your side

To put it simply Cummins doesn't make the South African team, who are you going to drop Morkel, Philander, Olivier or Rabada? And if you do, are you not replacing a bowler with an "inferior" return?

Hazlewood doesn't make South Africa team, New Zealand team (drop who Southee, Boult or Wagner?). India team ( Bumrah, Sharma, Yadav, Jadeja, Shami, Ashwin who are all giving a better return) the Pakistan team (Abbas, Shah, Asif, Amir better returns there as well). He would just make the West Indian side but only just beating out Gabriel. I'm looking at overall performances by all not just a one off series.

But both Cummins and Hazlewood would make the England team they have nothing so in their eyes so yeah they don't have anything near as good as Hazlewood and Cummins apart from Anderson so to say "best bowling attack in the world", dream on, against this England batting line up any state side in Australia would look good, we have that many quality bowlers but are they world class????

Have a look now at strike rates over the last 2 years and watch Hazlewood drop (nearly made page 3 without stipulations)

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=bowling_strike_rate;qualmin1=5;qualval1=matches;spanmin1=05+Sep+2017;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Cummins now struggles to make the Indian team with 2 ahead of him

Hazlewood now would not make the West Indian side, He doesn't make the Sri Lankan side, nor England side now. 

Mind you if you're happy to look at a couple of matches knock yourself out. I won't argue that he has had a good series, but will it continue??? Who knows, But I've known you for 5+ years Baggers at least you live in hope, I'll give you that.

I have no issues calling Cummins world class. I quite salivate at the thought of Cummins, Bumrah, Archer, Rabada, even Abbas and Ngidi for years to come. 

I think Bumrah is the one stealing the show globally right now. But he has to play at home eventually on some lifeless, souless dustbowl. 

I know you are obviously all missing me.

What makes you think that. 

Take a squizz at current stats and stop dredging up old ones.  Give Hazlewood something in the pitch like over in Pommieland and not our flat drop ins and his figures reflect his quality. He topped the strike rate in this series. He topped the average too. Even better than Cummins who.. whether fairly or not (Paddles).. is rated the worlds best bowler. Go on Mike keep bagging him as you know no better. But Hazlewood had a great series. He obviously learnt from four years ago when he was an Ashes rookie.

Btw sorry to hear you were impacted by the bushfires. A friend on another forum was up on the GC during them too and said they were scary as all hell.

Buttler, Bairstow, Ali are run machines and world class right now? 
They must be paid extra to espouse that blatant twaddle.
To be fair, Buttler shows promise that he will develop into a fine test batsman. I was impressed with the application he showed on the final day. His overall game is now more solid than it was a few years ago.  In short there is now some substance to his 5 day game.

And that's the problem with the lack of candid reporting. These people have status, but they are also totally and utterly biased, cos their livelhood depends on telling people either what they want to hear, or so they keep listening/watching, or telling them why they should keep listening/watching. It really is an appeal to authority with them as experts, when they're so clearly biased its not funny!

There is no impartiality at all. And it becomes a bit of a joke. I think that is why so many people are now taking to forums, facebook, discord, to escape the commentator's dribble, and talk to other knowledgeable fans during the game, to get real discussion, real commentary, real observations, vigourous debate. 

The days of a commentator's opinion being earnest have long gone with broadcasting the way it has been since WSC. And now they all want Indian TV deals to boot. All the commentators want that next gig globally, so very few are all that candid and sincere. It's like their marketers and advertisers now, not impartial journalists. 

And what is most alarming to me, is most of them do not seem to be following the cricket matches that they are not commentating on, at all. They don't even know who is playing out there in the world anymore half the time. 

Boycott is the slight exception, cos he is simply always right, loves a winner, and loves being in the news. Put simply, he promotes himself as the entertainment. And for a lot of fans, he very much is. Moody Bob Willis was a little of the same, in that regard. Hence why they are no longer doing the live tv broadcast.

NZ's leading commentator is Simon Doull. I think he is awful as a commentator. Just awful. As are most of them. 

Cricket fans are fans, often no more. 

Boycott is a cricket great. 

Far more followers of the sport are interested in his opinions than people who may never have even played the game. 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/cricket/the-day-kerry-packer-tore-apart-nine-anchor-mark-nicholas/news-story/cfc3c2c52144460fe57ee225043ac864

Reminds me of this, tbh. That whole series was promoted on the battle of attacks, as was the SA tour of Aus later in the year. But it was a no contest. SA were clearly miles ahead. 

The problem with the commentators is that they earn the big bucks as long as the games are promoted, and they are in effect the biggest promoter. Their candour and responsible journalism is seriously questionable. The biggest benefactors of this appears to be Indian cricket, with almost unprecendented global pandering to their team and players, it reaches nauseating levels. Yes, their test team is the best, yes Kohli is outstanding, yes Bumrah is brilliant. But some of the commentary just overlooks that Pant is probably the worst gloveman in world cricket. That this supposedly brilliant batting line up, has chewed through so many openers and number 6's its not funny due to repeated failures by Rahul, Rohit, Dhawan, Vijay, the list goes on and on, that this "world class" allrounder Hardik has done stuff all, and Rahane has only just this tour of WI started scoring runs again. Their batsmen absolutely failed, bar Kohli, in SA and England, but we were still hearing about great they all were when they toured Australia last summer. The batting has been so brittle, Jadeja has been selected over Kuldeep and Ashwin to help strengthen it. 

This Ashes series, I had to listen to Ch 9, Ian Healey and Lisa Sthelaker, tell me through the first 3 tests, how brilliant the English middle order is. I kid you not! This England batting team has been rolled by Ireland not a few weeks before. Ireland! They were smashed by the WI. SL was skittling them too. As was India last year. There is NOONE in the entire middle order averaging 40, but they were telling me that Buttler, Bairstow, Ali are run machines and world class right now? No - they're not. If anyone is currently world class its Watling and de Kock. And noone is saying that they are. The English middle order is a pathetic joke, where Ben Stokes averaging 35 is the superstar. 35. Batting at 5. Those batting after him, aren't even as good as him. Bairstow, Buttler and Ali are not world class test batsmen. Ali didn't even have form, at least Jadeja or Holder do. It's complete nonsense. Then I read forum posters repeating the nonsense. Yes - in ODI, England has a very strong middle order, but in tests, England hasn't had a good batting middle order since KP and Prior down hill skii'd off Cook and Trott.

Sorry, I think most the commentators talk a lot of tosh to sell the game. Boycott just promotes himself. He can't get enough of himself in the news it seems. 

This the same Boycott who once described Steve Smith's batting as rubbish and said that current WI side was the worst team he'd seen in test cricket in 50 years, which then beat England?

This is how seriously cricket fans take Geoffery these days -

https://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/Geoff_Boycott%27s_Grandmother

If you have 3 minutes - its well worth a read and is a well known meme (internet inside joke) among cricket fans. 

Do you think NSW should drop H from their team too, Mike?

Sorry to hear about your fire issues,Mike.

Hope you and family stay safe.

Shame you've missed how well Hazlewood and Labu have performed in the last two Tests!

Geoff Boycott thinks Hazlewood is one  of the best fast bowlers of all time. He describes him as a 'cracking' bowler, or 'crackerjack' bowler!

Boycott said it.

Last year in South A after the First Test, a number of South A commentators said the Aus attack of Stac, Hazlewood and Cummins was the best they'd ever seen too.

Oh any series win is a good series win. A lot of Kiwi cricket fans support Australia in the Ashes and ODI, but I am half pommie and been supporting England since the 1980's. There was quite a lean period in the 1990's. :P I also have further issues with some CA decisions, both recent and older but this is not the time nor place for them, more so given some interesting ECB decisions of late effecting NZC and the very questionable dealings of the BCCI towards all world cricket. 

Enjoy celebrating your team's success. "Smith's Ashes" is what the series should be called. Labu is a nice tale, Stoke's innings memorable, Archer's debut fierce, shame Warner and Anderson missed the series ;) I wanted more from Pattinson. He was bowling much too wide for my liking. I did like Australia bringing back a 4 prong attack, and skipping the all rounder, which India (took too long to realise) did last summer too. I firmly believe that may have been the result of Steve Waugh's influence, with a "we can just rotate the bowling group" approach.

England for all their success in white ball, has slipped from the helycon days of Cook, KP, Trott, Prior, and tbh - the only players who seems assured to be their next summer are Root, Stokes, Broad and Archer. And if Anderson returns, Broad could be dropped. Noone else in the team is secure. Leach is droppable for Ali cos they need runs. Woakes could return as they need runs, but it could be S Curran instead. Anderson may never be fit. Foakes could replace Bairstow. Buttler could replace Bairstow. Pope could replace Foakes, Bairstow or Buttler. Denly looks completely out of place. Burns is trying to swim, but he is no Michael Phelps. And poor Jason Roy is just in the wrong place, at the wrong time, playing the wrong game! 

Their batting is in chaos. Anderson, Stone, Wood still gives them further bowling depth to return from injury, and TRJ should have been called up over Overton in my opinion anyway. But this England batting order is a shambles. An absolute shambles. Smith took down some excellent bowling, even with no Anderson, he deserves every plaudit he gets. He is a batting genius. But its hard to read much into the Aussie bowling when the English batting is so woeful. And these problems have been apparent for 3 England home summers now with no Anderson or Curran miracles to save their bacon. 

What a lot of people don't realise is, England's contract structure is biased heavily to test at about 5 times the value of a white ball contract. Now perhaps Morgan gets a special deal as captain, but you can't just keep finding funds for special deals. This whole rewarding Bairstow, Buttler and Roy for their ODI prowess, (much like they did with Rashid last summer) is now problematic. I wonder what adverse effects this could have on their ODI team as they are really now forced to start dropping some of their ODI/T20 stars.



I see some big changes coming up to this list next month. Rashid has not played a test this year, SCurran has not made the team, Bairstow and Buttler got contracts ahead of Ben Foakes, who has been dropped despite averaging over 40 in 5 tests in the last 12 months and is the best keeper. Archer will definitely get a test contract. 

Now the money, 


Those playing both forms are clearing over a 1m pound. And its about to rise a lot more this year to 1m pound retainer plus match fees. So there is some serious money at stake here. Some of Bairstow, Buttler, Roy, SCurran, Rashid obviously, they're about to get a huge pay cut. Roy does not look set for his pay day neither. Leach should in all fairness get a contract. 

And how apaprent is England's batting crisis? That list was formed a year ago. Joe Root is the only specialist batsman with a test contract, that may be harsh to Bairstow and Buttler, . but its true. Ben Foakes has been the best England keeper bat in the last year! http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/364788.html 

https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/england_cricket_central_contracts_what_is_an_increment_contract_who_has_a_central_contract.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2019/05/31/jofra-archer-set-join-ben-stokes-englands-highest-paid-cricketer/ (pay increase proof)

I know you are obviously all missing me, but if you probably all noticed the bushfires here in Qld and the in-laws are from the granite belt region, I've had some un-expected guests during the last test. A bit hard to watch with kids sleeping on the couch. So I didn't see the last test so really can't comment

But I would echo some statements by Paddles. Leading into the tests England had a poor batting line up
Rory Burns averaged 20 prior to the Ashes averaging 40 against our bowlers????
Joe Denly averages 24 at tests prior to the Ashes against our bowlers 25
Joe Root in his last 10 innings prior to the Ashes against Sri Lanka, West Indies and Ireland (the big power house test teams they have) averaged 24 averaged 31 against our bowlers, many will argue he is out of form.
Jason Roy averages 18 at test level. Just is not up to test level IMO
Ben Stokes averages 33 prior to this series with 6 100's from 52 matches, against our bowlers averages 60 and 2 100's in 4 games????
Bairstow averages 35 against  our bowlers 24 so you can say our attack had some success against him
Buttler averages 33 against our bowlers 17 once again you can say Australian bowlers dominated him

England have relied on their tail and did Australia a big favour by dropping them
Ali averages 28 at test level, played one test and gone replaced by Jack Leach who is a tail ender
Dropped Woakes for Overton another mistake weakening their batting line up

So England have the longest tail they have had in the last 4 years, a batting line up that is really struggling on a world level, not just against Australia, and people are saying that Australia are the best bowling attack in the world????? I don't know if it is stupidity or arrogance. One test series after their recent performances against India, Pakistan, South Africa, Bangladesh even Sri Lanka in 2016. As Paddles said there is a reason why this Ashes series was really 4th against 5th. This is a really poor England batting side so "best in the world"??? C'Mon

England conditions have always been tailor made for Seamers and swingers, thus the reason why Broad and Anderson have so many wickets, but it has taken them a lot of test to achieve those levels. Broad has played 2/3 rds of his tests at home averages 27 but away averages 34. Anderson also has played 2/3 rds of his tests at home averages 23 but away averages 34. Out of all our bowlers you would expect Hazlewood to be successful in England, and even by his own admission he has changed his line to the top of off stump, something I've been saying to Baggers for about 3-4 years now, he was bowling too wide. He admits it. Quote "I think am bowling a lot less deliveries wide of off (stump) and on the pads due to my action."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/josh-hazlewood-pat-cummins-australia-england-fourth-test-ashes-highlights-video/2019-09-07

But will he keep it up or revert back time will tell.

Also remember No Jimmy Anderson for England in England is like No S Smith for Australia.

With regards to Labuchagne, does anyone really see him playing a lot of tests??? After watching him for a few years now and last year at shield level he scored 416 runs @ 24, I wouldn't be backing him to be the next S Smith, I'd even put money on him not playing more than 20 tests for Australia. But once again time will tell. One off good series when your from outside NSW does not guarantee continued selection. Now if he was from NSW you would probably see him for 2 or 3 years with the old "remember when he played OK in England". but he's not so every game he will be under the microscope and that is additional pressure. Just like David Warner will play the next test probably will score a few runs in a dead rubber, and then we'll have to put up with his automatic inclusion for the next 2-3 years, but only Bangladesh in away games till 2021 when we go to South Africa.

But it is good to beat England anytime, and though Paddles you were going for England like all good Kiwis do when they're playing against Australia, you can't take that enjoyment from us. 

But also remember we'll have to now put up with Hazlewood, Cummins, Starc and Lyons as the bowling attack and based the last 2 years I don't think that is the best attack we can produce for all conditions. Here is a list of Best attacking bowlers in sheffield shield with current ones highlighted.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/australia/engine/records/bowling/best_career_strike_rate.html?id=114;type=trophy

Notice how low down Starc is and even lower Hazlewood is? Hazlewood can't even beat out Ben Cutting???? Notice 4 above Hazlewood, Scott "can't bowl, can't field" Muller. But now it doesn't matter if Pattinson or Bird or Richardson, or Tremain or Behrendorff or Rogers or Bell or Paris are ever picked they will always be treated as the number 3 bowler thus eliminating the effectiveness with the new ball which they have proven over time they are better attacking bowlers. The new ball always ends up in Hazlewood's hands and he's just not the best we have currently. I wonder if they take the new ball away from Hazlewood will he turn into Gollum looking for his precious.

You did. 

 He got a few to turn.

That's fine. I will be again, too. There are far too many attacks ranked higher than 5th, for Aus to be called world class right now, when stuff all countries play cricket and they beat  a batting line up with only one guy averaging over 40 :P To you the Ashes is a big deal, but this was 4th playing 5th... And England's weakness is not Broad and Anderson, its Root and noone else.

It is what it is... SA and India are clearly light years ahead of Australia in bowling based on recent series, and I prefer Pakistan's attack too right now. Pakistan and my opinion may change this summer, bus SA and India are so far ahead, that won't be changing this summer. Aus attack is top 5 or 6 in the world, maybe top 7 after the Windies, its not world class... Not even close... Holder, Roach and Gabriel destroyed England. So did Ireland. Ill agree your attack is better than Irelands.... But they mocked them more :P

This series was all Smith. And some Labuschange. No neutral is giving Aussie bowlers any credit. Its England. You should see what Ireland, India and SA did there recently...

Pakistan comes down to Abbas, can he shine in Aus, or is he a UAE/England specialist at his low pace...

I'm Pattinson's biggest fan, he looked way off his game in the tests. I don't rate Starc in tests, at all. Haze - I used to rate him. But I got burned with his crap bowling for 2+ years, I wanna see more before I believe again. Sidds is ordinary as heck...

Then you are at odds with some past players who say Cummins and Hazlewood are the best opening pairing they have seen. Think Boycott was one.

I did ask if there was an other opponent. I am blowed if I can decipher the ICC FT schedule.
I  read somewhere the Bangla tour has been put back to June?

Nah - you have a two test tour of Bangladesh after your home summer.

https://icc-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/ICC/document/2018/06/20/6dc2c8d4-e1a5-4dec-94b4-7121fab3cd7f/ICC_Tours.pdf

Use this - has details of every tour for every member.

After the five test summer there is a plethora of pyjama cricket until November when we play a  Test 4 hander in India. That is a long time for us purists to wait.

No. I don't tbh. You bowled through an England team that the WI just rolled through and even Ireland decimated albeit in a loss. Root is the only England batsman averaging over 40 for career right? I just checked, the second highest England career batting average is Bairstow at 35.57! England are a rubbish batting unit. Absolute rubbish. 

It doesn't wash with me that you get to lose to SA home and away where you were completely outbowled, Pak away to Abbas who tormented you, and India at home to Bumrah who bullied you with Sharma and Shami and suddenly claim your seamers are a world class attack again.

Congrats on the retaining the ashes. Steve Smith is deserving of every superlaitve there is. But no, I don't call England's attack world class, especially without Jimmy, and I won't call Australia's that neither. Starc, Haze, Siddle, Pattinson - they need to carry this on for a while. Cummins, he is sitting pretty as world class.

It is his world cup which gave me confidence tbh. But till someone is really proving that they deserve to be opening based on shield form i would still feel inclined to give Warner the spot. He is also still 32, easily got a few more years in him still.

For the summer I'd go Warner and Burns with Pucovski next in line to replace Head or Wade depending on their form.

Superlatives for the series win and team analysis aside for a moment, did I see Head thrown the ball just as I was going to bed??

I think we have been using that excuse for a couple of years now. He is on the slippery slide.. eye players tend to go quicker than others. So we give him the summer and he makes merry on our drop ins and pacy decks with no movement. Then gets picked for India where he has a shocking record. Where else are we touring next year. Dont have that schedule handy at moment.