england with consecutive fours one from butler then curran.. thats more like it. kind of been batting a bit too conservative with singles

speaking of curran off he goes

This batting is crap...

3 edges in the over 3rd one goes to hand 8-226

cummins and surprisingly siddle have looked tired this match

butler in odi mode hits a few 6's before the 2nd new ball due

evenish day maybe australia just ahead 8-270ish

If England win this test the period from 65th over to 77th over is where we lost it. Eng were 199 (Smith can score that in one innings), they were gone, but at the end of that particular period they were 260 back in the game. 48 of those 61 runs came from one particular bowler, who shall remain nameless. These are the periods of bowling, are what I am talking about, that this particular bowler gives away regularly that cost matches and are glossed over regularly with constant excuses, or are completely ignored. Now Australia become more reliant on Smith definitely producing one of his innings because dropping Head has reduced the batting depth, also considering no Pattinson or Starc to bolster the tail. The other bowlers in M Marsh and Siddle only gave 7 runs away with tight bowling keeping pressure on England only for the pressure to be released at the other end. It happened in the 3rd test, it happened regularly against India and South Africa. These are the periods that separate ordinary bowlers from great ones. But credit to Buttler after the first test where he looked all at sea I thought probably out of his depth, but those 6's he smashed off rubbish deliveries shows how he can turn a match.

So my question is Is it poor captaincy by Paine to continue with a particular bowler who is getting smashed? or is it ego stroking giving a particular bowler first opportunities at the tail to improve his stats after all he is currently sitting at 38 (same as against india and SA) but the final 2 wickets would give him and average of 20? If Starc was playing he probably would have sent the tail packing, thus taking away the opportunities for a particular bowler thus why we have seen av of 40 against SA and 35 against India. Probably explains why some hate Starc so much. Before people start saying the bowlers are tired (that's what they were supposed to be rotating for) remember prior to 1997 it was 6 test match series there were no complaints then from the bowlers. But they did have fitter and stronger bowlers back then like Merv Hughes.

But in defence of Paine he did see the green top on the wicket and decided to bowl afterall with best bowling attack in the world and a green top who wouldn't. He was quick to remove one of the opening bowlers after 3 overs of being smashed to boundary and damaging the new ball and bought on Siddle and a break through was achieved by Cummins, that's good captaincy. But then he took Cummins off straight after he made the break through and bought back on some innocuous bowler I don't remember who and England set about their recovery. That's poor captaincy IMO. By the time he bought Cummins back on Root and Burns were set. 

M Marsh who went into the test with an average of 44 takes 4 wickets shows 1 how poor this England side is and 2 how much assistance England conditions give bowlers and 3 gives an insight to the other performances with the ball. I dare anyone to claim M Marsh is one of the best bowlers ever, but currently has an average of 8.75 in this series, see anyone can do it. The last time Marsh took 4 wickets in an innings was back in 2015 in this match against the might of the WI 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11203/scorecard/892517/australia-vs-west-indies-2nd-test-west-indies-tour-of-australia-2015-16

Notice any other similarities in the bowling attacks? For the record for the next game it was Siddle who was dropped and started his career of in and out of the side for an occasional game. (Please note I don't go searching for these things they just appear with so much regularity even I have to laugh, so laugh Baggers it's not deliberate it just happens)

So if history has anything to show and at 35 years of age this will be Siddle's last test. He has been a strong work horse, a reluctant opening bowler it was never his forte but his partnership with Hilfenhaus was excellent without the accolades. The highlight for me the India tour of Australia against Sehwah, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman, Kohli and Dhoni arguably one of the best batting line ups ever with Hilfenhaus and Siddle taking 50 of the possible 80 wickets and Australia winning 4-0

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=6636;type=series

Hard to believe Hilfenhaus was dropped 5 tests later, especially considering India's last tour with a significantly inferior batting line up.

What I found interesting was how much booming swing Marsh got after tea, - conventional swing with a 60 over old ball. If Curran gets swing as well, for mine it wont be that the there wasn't swing on offer this series, it will be that the bowlers, particularly England without Anderson, were not executing it.

Lyon was only used for 4 overs with Mitch Marsh in the side. 

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
JE Root	2018-2019	22	41	1	1462	125	36.55	2929	49.91	3	10	5	145	3
JC Buttler	2018-2019	18	33	2	1132	106	36.51	1915	59.11	1	9	2	131	10
BA Stokes	2018-2019	18	35	3	1097	135*	34.28	2219	49.43	2	6	3	115	20
JM Bairstow	2018-2019	20	36	1	919	110	26.25	1745	52.66	2	4	7	114	5
RJ Burns	2018-2019	12	23	0	682	133	29.65	1527	44.66	1	4	1	81	0
SM Curran	2018-2019	11	19	2	524	78	30.82	831	63.05	0	3	2	54	17
AN Cook	2018-2018	10	18	0	516	147	28.66	1171	44.06	1	2	1	65	0
KK Jennings	2018-2019	11	20	1	487	146*	25.63	1153	42.23	1	0	1	47	0
JL Denly	2019-2019	8	15	0	363	69	24.20	840	43.21	0	3	0	49	0
MM Ali	2018-2019	12	23	0	358	60	15.56	833	42.97	0	2	6	35	4
CR Woakes	2018-2019	9	14	2	350	137*	29.16	597	58.62	1	1	1	50	2
BT Foakes	2018-2019	5	10	2	332	107	41.50	617	53.80	1	1	0	29	5
AU Rashid	2018-2019	9	15	3	245	35	20.41	434	56.45	0	0	0	29	4
DJ Malan	2018-2018	6	11	0	219	62	19.90	583	37.56	0	2	1	26	0
SCJ Broad	2018-2019	19	30	6	216	38	9.00	428	50.46	0	0	9	19	3
MD Stoneman	2018-2018	4	8	0	198	60	24.75	451	43.90	0	2	1	24	1
JJ Roy	2019-2019	5	10	0	187	72	18.70	318	58.80	0	1	1	26	1
MJ Leach	2018-2019	9	15	6	182	92	20.22	443	41.08	0	1	1	26	0
JM Vince	2018-2018	2	4	0	137	76	34.25	274	50.00	0	1	0	18	0
DM Bess	2018-2018	2	3	0	111	57	37.00	215	51.62	0	1	0	16	0
MA Wood	2018-2019	3	5	0	78	52	15.60	97	80.41	0	1	0	11	1
TK Curran	2018-2018	1	2	1	62	39	62.00	105	59.04	0	0	0	11	0
C Overton	2018-2019	2	4	1	62	33*	20.66	163	38.03	0	0	0	7	1
JM Anderson	2018-2019	16	25	15	55	12	5.50	209	26.31	0	0	2	8	0
OJ Pope	2018-2018	2	3	0	54	28	18.00	99	54.54	0	0	0	7	0
JC Archer	2019-2019	4	6	0	45	15	7.50	105	42.85	0	0	0	8	0
OP Stone	2019-2019	1	2	0	19	19	9.50	29	65.51	0	0	1	4	0
MS Crane	2018-2018	1	2	0	6	4	3.00	11	54.54	0	0	0	0	0

Bairstow has to be dropped. I get England's issue. Bairstow wants a test contract, its 4 time's the pay of a white ball one. But England has options with Buttler, Foakes and Pope. Leaves England with an upset star ODI cricketer who may lose form. Just look at the total and utter lack of centuries scored by England. Assuming Root played every test, the entire England England team has scored only 13 centuries in 22 tests.  And it would be even worse if Stokes wasn't in his career peak form right now. Think that Roy experiment is finished with. 

They facing life without Anderson soon, and while they have Archer, the batsman are simply going to have to start making some runs or England need to keep dropping them. 

England has to recall Pope this winter, even if they hide him down at 5 or 6. Give Buttler the gloves, 

1 Burns 2 ???Hasan Azad perhaps? 3 Root 4 Stokes 5 Pope 6 Buttler 7 Foakes+ 8 Curran/Woakes 9 Archer 10 Broad 11 Anderson

Its still a rubbish batting line up, but Pope has to be given a chance. They could give Buttler the gloves if there is a better option that Foakes with the bat. 

Ollie Pope has to be given a chance, I read he scored a 200+ recently against Kyle Abbot and Fidel Edwards, I know they are getting on but they do have international backgrounds. Agree on Buttler over Bairstow, why 2 keepers, if it was someone like Gilchrist maybe, but Bairstow is no Gilchrist with the bat. But in saying that Australia has 2 keepers and Wade has now dropped to under 30, just like Bairstow so how long will that continue. I'd put Foakes in as No 6 and Buttler 7 with the idea when Buttler fails Foakes steps in to take over, but develop his batting first.

I'll throw Dominick Sibley in as a maybe in the opening position I recall he also scored a 250 or so recently and i think he is also the leading run scorer this year and he is only 25. 

IMO I think that is part of the problem world wide not a lot of test experience generally in the batsmen. Burns for England they have to stick with for a while he may come good. It is no surprise to me that players like Smith and Kholi and your NZ batsmen, players with a lot of experience, are generally dominating the batting, though a few young ones coming up it's not many. Stokes has come up now but that is solely due to the couple of centuries recently, so he may continue good form which is not good for NZ, or he may revert back to his previous form. That's why I always had a problem with the dropping of Joe Burns, the subsequent openers have failed miserably which took opportunities away from Burns to get the badly needed experience Australia is missing. If they did continue with Burns and his form did continue averaging 40 he would have 40 tests under his belt and that's a lot of experience. They missed the boat on that one. You can't get the rhythm going if you're in one test out the next, you will always get that one unplayable delivery especially when opening, fresh bowler proud seam anything can happen. Just look at the bowling for Australia currently, how can someone like Pattinson get any form going when you're in one test out for the next. Nothing beats match practice.

Foakes is the best gloveman in England, if not the entire world right now - pending how you view him against Saha. So he should certainly wear the gloves. If Stokes does tour NZ, he shouldn't worry our bowlers too much. He smashed us in 2015 when we went short at him, in 2018 - we kept it up to him and robbed him of his money maker pull shot. Stokes typically only scores big runs, when he scores fast. He is a bruiser, not a technician, but his pull shots are a thing of beauty. You seemingly just need to keep his boundary balls away from him to limit his effectiveness, he isn't known for driving straight off seamers. 

NZ did continue with Nicholls, and it was looking grim, but we have been paid back handsomely since the start of 2018. Latham too was getting dicey, but we always knew we were in it for the longhaul with him as we were with KW cos the talent and technique is so obvious. I still am not convinced he suited to opening, he should be in the middle order. But we needed openers, so made him into one, and we are making Will Young into one right now too.

England has tried making an opener with Roy - failed. Root at 3? Failed. Burns they will persist with, cos they only go one opener at a time. That leaves them looking for someone else. Its a rubbish line up. Its been a rubbish line up for a while. Bairstow is a massive weak link. Buttler is an effective patch, but still not the ideal. Ditto Curran till he starts learning to bat time, instead of just dashing and glorious strokes. They're all limited overs players.

Unless Root wants to open the batting, I don't see any of the current England crop making the NZ team. For India, they may swap Pant's useless gloves for Buttler. For Australia, you'd find a spot for Root somewhere. Would you take anyone else, though? Would you really want Burns? Stokes for Marsh and Wade of course. But you havn't been playing Marsh until now. Even then - Head could chip him out if you wanted more batting.

England batting is rubbish. England makes it easy for those that say limited overs is polluting test quality to make their point. I am not sure I agree with it, but England does give it some weight. England has the same problem that Aus do, during the lead test tour of the summer, they are playign their t20 league. They have had 1 round of FC in the past 2 months. So how do you know who to replace who with for tests? 

Those bagging Tim Paine for not batting first should think for a moment. Ordinarily you'd bat here at The Oval but our captain has no faith in his openers and there was a distinct green tinge on this deck.. so he made the call to bowl first as bowling has been our strength over this series. I call it a fair call as 8-271 is a good result at the end of the day.. Would have been far less if we had not given Root three lives.

Marsh has developed this skill of swing since being in exile. It will reap him plenty more international wickets before he has finished. He has already warranted his recall now we wanna see him perform with the bat to shut up his many detractors. Those that read the Mitch Marsh interview this morning and have some compassion will feel for him.

Oh it was looking a wonderful call until this partnership. If England get another 50 runs, and get Smith cheap, this match could be well in the balance. 

Its almost getting to the point where I expect to make big runs in the first team innings of every match now.

If the pitch was not going to end up like Galle Day 4 and 5 then it would have made sense. But we will struggle to chase 100 in the final innings. And the excuse that our batting lineup is not good enough is just a reason to make us bat first even more. You don't want to be in a position when the pitch becomes difficult to play while having a terrible batting lineup because we won't be able to chase anything, nor in this scenario build up a strong lead in the 2nd innings because apparently we can't bat.

The excuse that our batting is not good enough will be just as much of a problem in the 2nd and 4th innings. We are now in a scenario where if we manage 400 or so in the 2nd innings we will still be in a very difficult position. That's what happens when you decide to bat 2nd on a pitch which is going to be a nightmare by day 5.

No not with a heavy overcast and green tinged deck which with the expected warmer, sunnier conditions predicted will dry the moisture to make batting easier in the second dig. I am betting had there been clear skies and had our openers performed to expectations Tim wud have had no hesitation batting first. The only setback to bowling first is that we will have to bat last. If there is a 5th day. Weather forecast says rain. Perhaps that was also in Paine's mind when he made his decision.

I am expecting plenty of runs from our under performing bats. They have now the best batting conditions of the series. Warner needs to take on the bowling from the first over and dominate Broad while those others on borrowed time need to justify their selection for this match by supporting Smith. Even if Smith fails.. and he is due..

I see no rain on the forecast the entire test. The pitch wasn't doing enough day 1 to warrant not to bat first. Langer and Paine made the wrong call and put unneeded pressure on us.

I dunno - Marsh had the ball hooping more than Ive seen series with no Anderson. I don't if its been the summer, or the bowlers. But I suspect its been the bowlers. But if its the conditions, Curran and Archer may have caused come issues. Sam Curran is a terrible bowler, but he can get it to swing big. If there is swing, he gets wickets. He is just useless when there is no swing.

The ball was definitely moving, i don't think it was that bad though that you risk batting last on this pitch of all places. I'll call it now, if we don't have a 150 run lead after the 2nd innings we lose this test. 

Oh I hear your argument loud and clear. 

I don't disagree with your concerns. 

But England still need a few more runs, and more critically stop Smith from going huge again. 

Say what you like about Hazelwood, but Marsh is bowling first this morning with Cummins...

Buttler out - 294/9

Warner absolutely robbed there, he was nowhere near that

Warner out to a snick behind, caught on DRS. 

We are 1-5. 

And Harris out too. 14/2.

Why did we drop Khawaja for only getting starts when none of the three openers have even done that?

Harris snicks another one to slips and out. 

2-14.

Most of our batsmen  can’t bat on foreign pitches. 

Our top opening partnership is still only 13 runs in the 5th test. 

Tend to agree.