Aus v NZ 2nd Test


Aus v NZ 2nd Test

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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 5:27 PM
Paddles - 24 Dec 2019 4:53 PM

Never said I disrespected him. Said he has set out a tactic of bowling short stuff at his pace and it has worked for him. I will add it is a clever tactic. It is up to our brains trust to counteract that tactic by thinking outside the box. Playing him like a white ball game may be the way to go. Step inside his leg theory deliveries.. and smote him. We have the batsmen to do that. . much like Stokes did. Those Ashes Aussie quicks were 10ks faster than Wagner. and we at have least 3 bats that are better than Stokes.

Your plan is to play shots? That is exactly what he wants. Leg slip, fine leg, square leg, short square, mid wicket, prolly a short leg too, tbh,  the field is set - and legal. 

You have to hit 6's. To beat the boundary fielders. Playing shots to those balls with that field,  is like falling straight into Wagner's plan I would have thought.

I think going Steve Waugh and putting the pull and hook away is a wiser option. 

Yes, your Aussie quicks are taller and faster, and you know what, outside Cummins, not at as successful despite their extra height and pace. ;)

Wagner is a revelation for the short medium pace seamer who has no swing... nor pace... nor height... nor seam position... ;) He has nothing going for him bar fitness and determination... and he is #3 in the world right now... and climbing... And he has taken down all the best... Even India in NZ... Before his bouncer stuff...

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/11825/scorecard/667651/new-zealand-vs-india-1st-test-india-tour-of-new-zealand-2013-14

*this is an edit, I was just doing some research and Wagner credits SL 2015/16 as the first time he unleashed the bouncers. That is one test before the Australian one for him in his career. While technically true, that was a rare uneven bounce surface, and both he - then Chameera took adcantage of it. The difference is, when Wagner did it, the field was not set for it. The pitch was just conducive for it. So he did it, regardless of his field. Aus 2015/16 was the first time - he didnt care about the pitch, and just set ht efield and did it. 

But I dont even think it was all Wagner... check out the SR's only, of these two ODI bowlers in ODI... They are horrible bowlers, far below Wagner's skill level, but the short rubbish, from a left armer, for NZ - started with these guys, before Mitch J 2013/14... :P

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/319439.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/player/277662.html

They just bowled a lot of short stuff. In a version with further fielding restrictions. But that is where I originate Wagner doing it for Captain McCullum later. Who loved Mitch Mc doing it in ODI.

The more pertinent question for mine is, do left arm quicks have an advantage here with the short stuff to right hand batsmen...


Edited
9 Months Ago by Paddles
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 4:44 PM
Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:54 AM

That is about the best comment you have posted DC. Good stuff.

Now repost it on WP.. and it may wake up some of the drongos over there.

Done!

I think this will stir up a hornet's nest on Whirlpool!
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Decentric - 25 Dec 2019 9:39 AM
baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 4:44 PM

Done!

I think this will stir up a hornet's nest on Whirlpool!

It sure did mate. Check out the vitriol from some.
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I'm super looking forward to patto bowling tomorrow even on a lifeless pitch!

Nervous to look at the hornets nest haha
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baggygreenmania - 25 Dec 2019 12:11 PM
Decentric - 25 Dec 2019 9:39 AM

It sure did mate. Check out the vitriol from some.

I expect nothing less on Whirlpool Cricket Forum.


Conversely, on Whirlpool Weight Training Forum, apart from people being fairly impersonal, they are often quite knowledgeable. They nearly always use articles or videos from supposed experts  to reinforce opinions. The only issue I have is that some people think Exercise  Physiologists don't know as much as they do. 

It is the same on FTBL Forum, as Whirlpool Cricket Forum - but not to that extent.

We might not have many who post on this IS cricket forum, but of those who do, we have a lot of  comparative cricket knowledge.

On IS Cricket Forum we have two quite high level rep underage players, one former cricket coach, one current First Grade player, one rep coach ( he has been banned though), and others who've played quite a bit  of club cricket in school teams and suburban cricket associations.

I'm only too keen to learn from the aforementioned, and, would never argue  over tactics and technical analysis, well  above my head in cricket. I really appreciate the aforementioned's input. Baggers didn't meet him , because he was sick, but I often talk to a former Tasmanian Vice Captain and state selector, who really knows a lot. I sometimes  advance his insights on here.

Yet in some cricket and football forums, some arrogant morons seem to think they know more than professional coaches, or trained coaches! I just don't get it?

In football when a player is excoriated by some group think forum mentality, once I delineate  about 10 -14 specific performance criteria to support why a coach sees qualities in a player, using about 11 criteria they don't  consider, they get annoyed! Fans often  seek scapegoats and heroes. I don't understand it?



 
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9 Months Ago by Decentric
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grazorblade - 25 Dec 2019 1:24 PM
I'm super looking forward to patto bowling tomorrow even on a lifeless pitch!

Nervous to look at the hornets nest haha

Merry Xmas, Grazor.

I'm hoping Australia plays Neser at 7. 

Neser has been around the team so long - give him a go I say.  I've been impressed with him every time I've seen him bowl at Bellerive too. He has deserved it - although I'm not sure how his current batting stacks up?  He has bowled well enough to be the 4th pace bowling all rounder to give us that all important 5 person attack on a flat deck.

The theory is that Starc and Pattinson can be erratic, unlike the metronomic Lyon, Hazlewood and Cummins. I think Neser can bowl line and length for sustained periods.

Although having said that, Lyon's career records show he goes for 3 runs an over, whereas Warne went for circa 2.5 per over.
Edited
9 Months Ago by Decentric
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grazorblade - 25 Dec 2019 1:24 PM


Nervous to look at the hornets nest haha

I've delivered a sermon like you've seen me do on FTBL Forum - but not here! 

A few cowards are coming out of the closet,  now I'm supporting Baggers.

Most of Whirlpool Forum thinks Paine should be dropped - but no specific cricket performance   criteria has been used!
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Decentric - 25 Dec 2019 3:36 PM
baggygreenmania - 25 Dec 2019 12:11 PM

I expect nothing less on Whirlpool Cricket Forum.


Conversely, on Whirlpool Weight Training Forum, apart from people being fairly impersonal, they are often quite knowledgeable. They nearly always use articles or videos from supposed experts  to reinforce opinions. The only issue I have is that some people think Exercise  Physiologists don't know as much as they do. 

It is the same on FTBL Forum, as Whirlpool Cricket Forum - but not to that extent.

We might not have many who post on this IS cricket forum, but of those who do, we have a lot of  comparative cricket knowledge.

On IS Cricket Forum we have two quite high level rep underage players, one former cricket coach, one current First Grade player, one rep coach ( he has been banned though), and others who've played quite a bit  of club cricket in school teams and suburban cricket associations.

I'm only too keen to learn from the aforementioned, and, would never argue  over tactics and technical analysis, well  above my head in cricket. I really appreciate the aforementioned's input. bathers odnt meet him , because he was sick, bu tIoften talk to a ofrner Tas Vice Coatain and stae selector, who really knows a lot. I sometimes  advance his views on here.

Yet in some cricket and football forums, some arrogant morons seem to think they know more than professional coaches, or trained coaches! I just don't get it?

In football when a player is excoriated by some group think forum mentality, once I delineate  about 10 -14 specific performance criteria to support why a coach sees qualities in a player, using about 11 criteria they don't  consider, they get annoyed! Fans often  seek scapegoats and heroes. I don't understand it?



 

I didn't  included Flyslip , who seems  to have  quite bit of  cricket knowledge.

 I don't  know FS's cricket career background.
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I highly rate James Pattinson, and his fast outswinger. Always have. His only issues are 1 injury, 2 getting the right line for that putswinger.

He is a huge talent, and someone I rate very very very highly. 

But if Neser plays (now I know and admit to knowing stuff all about him) - Aus has a competent tail, but a long tail starting at 6. With Paine, then Neser, then Starc, then Cummins, Then Patto -

Now I know all these guys are good enough to score 50's. But it does seem like a long tail nevertheless.

But if Warner, Labu or Smith fire, that won't matter.

I will spend this test focused on Labu, and working out what makes him so excellent right now...

I think he is the most interesting thing in World Cricket right now... How?! How has he gone from an ordinary FC domestic cricketer, to a fire breathing test cricketer taking down Eng, NZ and Pak with ease. Admittedly not India or Safrica, but its huuuuuuge runs, huuuuuuuge runs.

A guy who I respect, often disagree with, but do respect, on another forum reckons Labu is the best batsman in the world right now. Now I watch a lot of Kohli, Smith, KW etc, but he reckons its Labu. So I will be fixated on him,
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Paddles - 25 Dec 2019 4:20 PM


But if Neser plays (now I know and admit to knowing stuff all about him) - Aus has a competent tail, but a long tail starting at 6. With Paine, then Neser, then Starc, then Cummins, Then Patto -

Now I know all these guys are good enough to score 50's. But it does seem like a long tail nevertheless.



Patto, Starc and Cummins make for a far stronger 8, 9 and 10 batters than most teams.

This compensates for a supposedly weak 6 and 7. 

Also, theoretically a five person attack should bowl out a team for a lower total than a 4 person attack. Patto, Starc and Cummins will be fresher from having Neser bowl plenty of overs.

I read you haven't seen Neser, Paddles.

Neser is a fast medium bowler who swings and seems a new ball. He has made quite a few recent runs, but I haven't seen him bat, whilst I've often watched him bowl live on a number of occasions .
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Decentric - 25 Dec 2019 4:49 PM
Paddles - 25 Dec 2019 4:20 PM

Patto, Starc and Cummins make for a far stronger 8, 9 and 10 batters than most teams.

This compensates for a supposedly weak 6 and 7. 

Also, theoretically a five person attack should bowl out a team for a lower total than a 4 person attack. Patto, Starc and Cummins will be fresher from having Neser bowl plenty of overs.

I read you haven't seen Neser, Paddles.

Neser is a fast medium bowler who swings and seems a new ball. He has made quite a few recent runs, but I haven't seen him bat, whilst I've often watched him bowl live on a number of occasions .

Hey Dec, thanks., Yeah - I know what Neser is in brackets. I just havnt seen him in action that I recall. I am sure I would have seen some Big Bash stuff with him, bat or ball, but he isn't in my mental database for anything. To put that in perspective, someone like Cuttings hitting 6's to long on is from 2014 or Arafat's slower balls is in my memory bank. They were awesome.

Yes, a long tail can counter a weak batting order up top, as England has shown in SL and vs India last year, it can also be caught with noone doing their job like England found out when they LOST (yes LOST) to WI this year. Its a gamble. It really is. A stronger tail is still a tail. A batting order that doesn't quit, doesn't quit. I am open minded here and think it revolves around individual talent and pitch conditions more than anything else. I am a horses for courses person, always.

Pretty sure when the batting tails were analysed recently by cricinfo, WI came out on top due to Holder and Dowrich.... tbh.... Holder really is a super cricket talent. At 28 he has not peaked yet, and he is 33 with bat, and 26 with ball... Outstanding. 49 with the bat and 17 with the ball this year. The ICC is having a laugh if he is not in the test team of the year again.
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gosh what is labu doing?

let him waste the new ball a foot outside off
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burns showed poor batting taking a big backlift and step towards off to the swinging ball

but even if he batted well he's probably out

2 degrees swing and 2 degrees seem on the money is going to get you out more times than not

Warner negotiating the swing well here

the key is rotating the strike in conditions like this

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singles are worth more than 4s in these conditions

it takes all the sting out of the bowler
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nice off drive for four

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was just about to compliment warner on the technique and temperament he has shown early

then a leading edge followed by a play and miss driving on the up
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better, left a wide one then full face of the bat for the ball on the stumps
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better from labu

he's leaving the wide ones
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labu handled that over pretty well a maiden in the end
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i reckon that was 5 degrees seem!

Labu survives though. Can he get a quick single
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rank half volley gets blocked

good mentality though. It won't be this hard for too long
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that ball that seemed about 5 degrees was the first ball I've seen with perfect seem position

I actually think NZ are wasting the conditions slightly here. Conditions are so tough it may not matter but only one down so far...
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nice off drive from warner striaght down the ground for 3
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gee seems back a few degrees there for an lbw shout

fortunately a foot over the stumps

swing has stopped but seem hasn't
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no swing and lots of seem you should throw your hands at any half volley or short pitch ball to try and age the ball a bit

anything on a length you just hope to survive and leave as often as you can
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9 Months Ago by grazorblade
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just as I say that labu slashes a square cut for 4

well played

when there is no swing and lots of seem its all about large foot movement and you want to pick the length early. You want a big difference between your step forward and your step back.
Slats is someone who comes to mind who was good at that
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against swing but little swing you want to play the ball late with soft hands and an economy of movement

if it swings and seems I guess you just say a few prayers and hope to survive :D
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10 overs down

NZ wasting the conditions with a lot of wide balls, very few balls with good seem position
Edited
9 Months Ago by grazorblade
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labu still showing immense respect for the conditions

warner has freed his arms a bit but labu blocks a half volley
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seem up delivery and there is still a fair bit of swing there if the seem is unscrambled
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