Aus v NZ 2nd Test


Aus v NZ 2nd Test

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Got a laugh out of the kiwi commentator when Wagner got Smith with a rare really good short one lol. Seems that they're happy getting him for anything less than a hundred, a mere 85 is a great victory apparently. 

I also thought it was strange the way they bigged up the short stuff to Smith in the first test too. They seem to have overlooked that he was struggling and had already nicked off to the slips a couple of times that weren't taken (and should have been run out). But nah, gotta to bowl short. I think they might end up playing him into form at this rate.
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flyslip - 28 Dec 2019 12:47 AM
Got a laugh out of the kiwi commentator when Wagner got Smith with a rare really good short one lol. Seems that they're happy getting him for anything less than a hundred, a mere 85 is a great victory apparently. 

I also thought it was strange the way they bigged up the short stuff to Smith in the first test too. They seem to have overlooked that he was struggling and had already nicked off to the slips a couple of times that weren't taken (and should have been run out). But nah, gotta to bowl short. I think they might end up playing him into form at this rate.

yeah its insane how unnecessary it is. New zealand have one of the best attacks in the world and nearly won a world cup with beautiful conventional sportsman like line and length bowling. When it comes to the scoreboard I'm much more worried about bowlers who attack the stumps, my problem is with the safety and the bad influence

I've gotta wonder if this unsportsmanlike behaviour is affecting their performance. Regardless of ICC rankings, NZ have always been one of the most difficult teams to face on home soil with their heroic determination. They've even drawn series here when we had our golden period if I recall correctly. Right now they are as competitive as zimbabwe here despite our team being weak by our historical standards (to be fair there is still some time to turn things around in the series I suppose. They certainly have the class to do it). Its kind of sad, with even kane williamson playing like a bunny. I mean I'm sure the kiwi team says all the right things to the camera but I'm sure it has to affect you mentally to be a team whose natural game is to be nice and see your teammate play like this.

Similarly I wonder if its no coincidence that we started playing with more determination and mental strength (with more results to show) since Tim Paine reformed our sportsmanship. I mean I like sledging  as much as the next person but there is a difference between sledging and bullying. How often have we collapsed since Paine has taken over? There are times that we have shown more mental strength than in the Michael Bevin days with the exception maybe of Warner in the ashes (who is probably still a bit of a bad boy, sublimely talented mind you). Paine is hopeless at the DRS and I don't rate his keeping as high as others, I also don't have any illusions about us being the good guys now, but gee its made a difference the change in team culture. Ironic because the old culture was justified as "winning at all costs"
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ThingyBob - 27 Dec 2019 7:18 PM
Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 7:10 PM

Merry Christmas, everyone! What's the thought on the pitch, so far?

Merry Xmas, TB. 

From what I’ve seen it is a hard pitch to score quickly on ATM. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:24 AM
ThingyBob - 27 Dec 2019 7:18 PM

Merry Xmas, TB. 

From what I’ve seen it is a hard pitch to score quickly on ATM. 

yeah variable bounce on day 1 first session. Hope it doesn't break up

a fair bit in it for the bowlers
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grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 6:05 AM
flyslip - 28 Dec 2019 12:47 AM

yeah its insane how unnecessary it is. New zealand have one of the best attacks in the world and nearly won a world cup with beautiful conventional sportsman like line and length bowling. When it comes to the scoreboard I'm much more worried about bowlers who attack the stumps, my problem is with the safety and the bad influence

I've gotta wonder if this unsportsmanlike behaviour is affecting their performance. Regardless of ICC rankings, NZ have always been one of the most difficult teams to face on home soil with their heroic determination. They've even drawn series here when we had our golden period if I recall correctly. Right now they are as competitive as zimbabwe here despite our team being weak by our historical standards (to be fair there is still some time to turn things around in the series I suppose. They certainly have the class to do it). Its kind of sad, with even kane williamson playing like a bunny. I mean I'm sure the kiwi team says all the right things to the camera but I'm sure it has to affect you mentally to be a team whose natural game is to be nice and see your teammate play like this.

Similarly I wonder if its no coincidence that we started playing with more determination and mental strength (with more results to show) since Tim Paine reformed our sportsmanship. I mean I like sledging  as much as the next person but there is a difference between sledging and bullying. How often have we collapsed since Paine has taken over? There are times that we have shown more mental strength than in the Michael Bevin days with the exception maybe of Warner in the ashes (who is probably still a bit of a bad boy, sublimely talented mind you). Paine is hopeless at the DRS and I don't rate his keeping as high as others, I also don't have any illusions about us being the good guys now, but gee its made a difference the change in team culture. Ironic because the old culture was justified as "winning at all costs"

Paine sledges, but it is often funny. 

In a mid pitch break yesterday, I loved how Wagner and Paine/Head had a friendly conversation. 

Importantly, which seems to be lost in the attitude on some cricket forums, the respect of the Aussie cricket team has been regained by the public. 

I don’t know if we fight harder in adversity, but a better team spirit helps. 
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I just wonder if the short pitched bowling was good for Paine having more opportunities to score runs? 
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flyslip - 28 Dec 2019 12:47 AM
Got a laugh out of the kiwi commentator when Wagner got Smith with a rare really good short one lol. Seems that they're happy getting him for anything less than a hundred, a mere 85 is a great victory apparently. 

I also thought it was strange the way they bigged up the short stuff to Smith in the first test too. They seem to have overlooked that he was struggling and had already nicked off to the slips a couple of times that weren't taken (and should have been run out). But nah, gotta to bowl short. I think they might end up playing him into form at this rate.

I remember hearing R Hadlee once saying the short ball had a low probability of taking wickets for him - hence he didn’t bowl many. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:32 AM
I just wonder if the short pitched bowling was good for Paine having more opportunities to score runs? 

yeah as I explained in the other thread, I don't think its effective. This has been an unusually ineffective kiwi team given how tough they've been in the past to beat. The problem is the safety and the example. Even if it caused run rates to go to 6po and averages to balloon over 40 I'd still call it out
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I thought McCullum’s crtiticism Of The Kiwis was overly harsh. 

I thought they fought hard all day in the field. 
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grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 9:35 AM
Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:32 AM

yeah as I explained in the other thread, I don't think its effective. This has been an unusually ineffective kiwi team given how tough they've been in the past to beat. The problem is the safety and the example. Even if it caused run rates to go to 6po and averages to balloon over 40 I'd still call it out

ATM using short balls a lot is losing them the series. 

It may have effected Wade and Smith’s confidence but other Aussies have cashed in. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:38 AM
I thought McCullum’s crtiticism Of The Kiwis was overly harsh. 

I thought they fought hard all day in the field. 

I missed that, what did he say?

Southee seemed afraid of the stumps. I'm not going off stats mind you but it seemed like very few of his balls were near the 4th or 5th stump let alone the off stump

De grandhomme was a bit better
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I am not sure who else saw it? 

On Fox Paine took a journo into the change rooms. He presented very much as a much more mature man leading some fairly immature boys - including Smith. 

He interacted  with Labu, Smith, Head, Hazlewood and Neser in front of the camera. 

Importantly, he, Cummins and Lyon have lived as ordinary citizens outside the elite cricket milieu or bubble. 
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grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 6:05 AM
flyslip - 28 Dec 2019 12:47 AM

There are times that we have shown more mental strength than in the Michael Bevin days with the exception maybe of Warner in the ashes (who is probably still a bit of a bad boy, sublimely talented mind you). Paine is hopeless at the DRS and I don't rate his keeping as high as others, I also don't have any illusions about us being the good guys now, but gee its made a difference the change in team culture. Ironic because the old culture was justified as "winning at all costs"

Similarly I wonder if its no coincidence that we started playing with more determination and mental strength (with more results to show) since Tim Paine reformed our sportsmanship. I mean I like sledging  as much as the next person but there is a difference between sledging and bullying. How often have we collapsed since Paine has taken over? 
That is a very good point.


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grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 9:45 AM
Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:38 AM

I missed that, what did he say?

Southee seemed afraid of the stumps. I'm not going off stats mind you but it seemed like very few of his balls were near the 4th or 5th stump let alone the off stump

De grandhomme was a bit better

McCullum thought the Kiwis gave up too much. 

Santner may be outclassed, but I thought the Kiwis bowled many good balls, particularly Southee swinging the ball into the lefties with his orthodox outswinger to right hand batters. 

I don’t have the knowledge, but maybe you are correct about not bowling more at 4th and 5th stumps? 

One Aussie plan seems to be trying bowling line and length to hit the top of off to the right handers. 
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grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 9:35 AM
Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:32 AM

yeah as I explained in the other thread, I don't think its effective. This has been an unusually ineffective kiwi team given how tough they've been in the past to beat. The problem is the safety and the example. Even if it caused run rates to go to 6po and averages to balloon over 40 I'd still call it out

Particularly in the context of the death of Phil Hughes. 
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baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 9:55 AM
grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 6:05 AM

Similarly I wonder if its no coincidence that we started playing with more determination and mental strength (with more results to show) since Tim Paine reformed our sportsmanship. I mean I like sledging  as much as the next person but there is a difference between sledging and bullying. How often have we collapsed since Paine has taken over? 
That is a very good point.


It probably is an excellent point, Baggers, but do we have stats to support less collapses since Paine’s captaincy? 
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grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 9:45 AM
Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:38 AM

I missed that, what did he say?

Southee seemed afraid of the stumps. I'm not going off stats mind you but it seemed like very few of his balls were near the 4th or 5th stump let alone the off stump

De grandhomme was a bit better

Boult was the worst I have seen him bowl. Clearly under done for this match. It was he that got Head going with a succession of flashing square cuts off very wide deliveries. The Kiwis quicks sure missed a trick not bowling in the correct areas against he and Paine.. neither have a sound technique.
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The last post is probably more applicable to the return of Warner and Smith. 

At at least one has always been in from, plus the emergence of Labu. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:59 AM
baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 9:55 AM

It probably is an excellent point, Baggers, but do we have stats to support less collapses since Paine’s captaincy? 

Dunno DC.. prob not.. Just a matter of going thru the archives. I am betting there have been far less embarrassing collapses under Paine than were under Smith. There was however a silver lining to those collapso days.. it established Smith as the batsmen he has become. How often did he carry us in those days.
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baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 10:00 AM
grazorblade - 28 Dec 2019 9:45 AM

Boult was the worst I have seen him bowl. Clearly under done for this match. It was he that got Head going with a succession of flashing square cuts off very wide deliveries. The Kiwis quicks sure missed a trick not bowling in the correct areas against he and Paine.. neither have a sound technique.

Interesting summation, Baggers. 

Other Test cricketers think Paine has good technique, but poor concentration. 

Where do you think Head is dodgy? 
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baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 10:03 AM
Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 9:59 AM

Dunno DC.. prob not.. Just a matter of going thru the archives. I am betting those embarrassing collapses under Smith have been far less under Paine. There was however a silver lining to those collapso days.. it established Smith as the batsmen he has become. How often did he carry us in those days.

Too often! 
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I suppose I saw Boult bowl some good balls close to taking wickets, but I missed a lot of play. 

The TCA folks say hello, Baggers! 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 10:01 AM
The last post is probably more applicable to the return of Warner and Smith. 

At at least one has always been in from, plus the emergence of Labu. 

Form
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Another test today will be Australia only having four bowlers if the pitch flattens out. 

An injury to a pace bowler means trouble. 

CDG is a very decent 5th bowler for the Kiwis. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 10:04 AM
baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 10:00 AM

Interesting summation, Baggers. 

Other Test cricketers think Paine has good technique, but poor concentration. 

Where do you think Head is dodgy? 

Yeh prob more concentration with Tim.

Head plays too far away from his body. You watch the real quality batsmen. They play the ball under their nose in attack and defense.. mostly defense. Head reaches for the ball.. so his head is never over the ball at point of contact which means he is not in total control of the shot.
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Given Wade can bowl at 128 kph, is there any chance he can improve as a bowler at age 32? 



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baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 10:10 AM
Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 10:04 AM

Yeh prob more concentration with Tim.

Head plays too far away from his body. You watch the real quality batsmen. They play the ball under their nose in attack and defense.. mostly defense. Head reaches for the ball.. so his head is never over the ball at point of contact which means he is not in total control of the shot.

Thanks. 

I’m going to refer to this analysis next time I watch him bat. 

I just wonder if he is another batter who will just get the job done in Aus, but fail away? 

Hopefully, he rectifies this weakness. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 10:11 AM
Given Wade can bowl at 128 kph, is there any chance he can improve as a bowler at age 32? 



De Grandhomme and Sayers are effective at only 120kph. 
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Decentric - 28 Dec 2019 10:14 AM
baggygreenmania - 28 Dec 2019 10:10 AM

Thanks. 

I’m going to refer to this analysis next time I watch him bat. 

I just wonder if he is another batter who will just get the job done in Aus, but fail away? 

Hopefully, he rectifies this weakness. 

Michael Vaughan also said Wade’s head  falls too far over to off when he plays vertical shots. 
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Dec, Paine didn't get the Wagner short stuff. He got the Southee dross. Wagner was bowling when Paine came to the crease. He bowled 4.2 overs more and gave Paine around 8 runs of his 17. Paine was on 63 runs when Wagner came back. All up Paine took Wagner for about 11 runs in that innings.

Paine attacked and went after Santner. Smashed him. And he found it pretty easy to score regularly and easily off Southee.
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