Aus v NZ 2nd Test


Aus v NZ 2nd Test

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Decentric
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Who took the other wicket Starc or Cummins? 
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grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 5:33 PM
jardine gone and now the cheats are 2 down

C/mon grazor enuff of this cheat crap eh mate. the umps are to blame.. as they allowing this controversial bowling

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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 5:48 PM
grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 5:46 PM

Missed most of today’s play. 

Just saw this review. 

Good Patto over! 

Looked good with the naked eye.

Cummins took the other. Starc was back to his wasteful best.
Edited
2 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 5:35 PM
tried to pull a ball that was about 2 feet outside off stump

growing up I never understood why you try and hit balls like that to the onside. Roll your wrists and pull through the covers. No one agreed with me but I found it pretty effective and have seen so many professionals skying the ball trying to pull wide balls onto the legside

I’ve often wondered this? 
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baggygreenmania - 27 Dec 2019 5:53 PM
Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 5:48 PM

Looked good with the naked eye.

Cummins took the other. Starc was back to his wasteful best.

Ta, Baggers.

I thought it looked out to the naked eye too,

It was a good review though. 
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baggygreenmania - 27 Dec 2019 5:52 PM
grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 5:33 PM

C/mon grazor enuff of this cheat crap eh mate. the umps are to blame.. as they allowing this controversial bowling

Nah - the rules allow it.

The rules - not the umpires...

It's the rules allowing it.

And its not been controversial for the last 4 years, just now. In Aus.

Which is odd. Cos there were no complaints about Mitch J - Lillee - Hogg  - THommo - Hughes etc...
Edited
2 Years Ago by Paddles
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australia's day after piling on the runs against the cheats and taking two wickets before stumps. Well done paine and head answering their critics with two very useful knocks
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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 5:51 PM
Who took the other wicket Starc or Cummins? 

pattison
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grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 6:02 PM
australia's day after piling on the runs against the cheats and taking two wickets before stumps. Well done paine and head answering their critics with two very useful knocks

That partnership is a game changer right now.

Critical knock, Paine delivered. When he needed too.

Well played Head. Impressive restraint. 
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I’m pleased Head succeeded today. 

Last season he played possibly the best innings in the Shield at Bellerive Oval. 
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grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 6:03 PM
Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 5:51 PM

pattison

Sorry, I realized Patto had one. 

Thanks anyway, G. 
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baggygreenmania - 27 Dec 2019 5:52 PM
grazorblade - 27 Dec 2019 5:33 PM

C/mon grazor enuff of this cheat crap eh mate. the umps are to blame.. as they allowing this controversial bowling

Agree, Baggers. 
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https://www.lords.org/mcc/the-laws-of-cricket


What law of cricket is Wagner controversially infringing on?

Name one.

Let the world know something that noone else in the world for the last 4 years has not picked up on.

The best Hick could claim was "negative bowling", but its only negative bowling if the batsman negatively avoid playing a shot... and its not hitting his body... it has to be missing his body and well down leg too be negative bowling. THe bowler has to be hoping the batsman doesn't play a shot. But Wagner wants the batsmen playing shots. This point is critical... Negative bowling is safe. It aint hitting anything. Wagner only gets wickets when batsmen play and get caught.

Bowler acts first. Batsman acts second.

Intimidation? No. Its not at the head. Repeatedly and too often.

What's the controversial issue with it?

Noone seems to read the rules when it comes to Wagner, but its different so it must be wrong. Right? But its completely legal. And completely fair. And a helluva lot safer to players than what Mitch, Lillee or Thommo served up reguarly.

Why do you think the Aussie commentators are not complaining? You think they want to see Aussie batsmen hurt? Or do they know, this is not only in the rules, its way safer than your fast bowlers bowling bouncers, at 140+ today?

You don't celebrate a Starc short ball at 145+ and complain about Wagner short ball at 130 as unsafe. One will do more damage to the body than the other.

Safety is not the issue.

Scoring? Bowlers are meant to bowl to fields within the fielding rules.

So what is controversial? Or is it just new, just different, and stopping Smith from scoring endless back to back centuries?

Chest guard exists. You can stop a broken or brusied rib from a 130 bowler.. A helmet will NOT NECESSARILY  STOP A CONCUSSION  from a 140+ bowler.

The issue is not safety. If its safety. Stop bowling so fast. And at the head. But its not about safety. 

Is it negative bowling? No - Wagner is saying "hit the ball". There is an easy and fair shot to play to it. The batsmen don't, cos they are scared of giving a catch a fielder, so the batsman don't care about their own safety. So they should evade if they want to be negative. Why they stand there and take it ont he body like Wade and Smith, I do not get it. Ive watched Wager do this to lots of teams. Ive seen many players handle it differently. SL were really good at managing it. Aus less so.

One thing is for sure, as much as you complain about it, Steve Smith will receive more and more of it from foreign players... earlier and earlier. 


Edited
2 Years Ago by Paddles
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Paddles - 27 Dec 2019 6:20 PM
https://www.lords.org/mcc/the-laws-of-cricket


What law of cricket is Wagner controversially infringing on?

Name one.

Let the world know something that noone else in the world for the last 4 years has not picked up on.

The best Hick could claim was "negative bowling", but its only negative bowling if the batsman negatively avoid playing a shot... and its not hitting his body... it has to be missing his body and well down leg too be negative bowling. THe bowler has to be hoping the batsman doesn't play a shot. But Wagner wants the batsmen playing shots. This point is critical... Negative bowling is safe. It aint hitting anything. Wagner only gets wickets when batsmen play and get caught.

Bowler acts first. Batsman acts second.

Intimidation? No. Its not at the head. Repeatedly and too often.

What's the controversial issue with it?

Noone seems to read the rules when it comes to Wagner, but its different so it must be wrong. Right? But its completely legal. And completely fair. And a helluva lot safer to players than what Mitch, Lillee or Thommo served up reguarly.

Why do you think the Aussie commentators are not complaining? You think they want to see Aussie batsmen hurt? Or do they know, this is not only in the rules, its way safer than your fast bowlers bowling bouncers, at 140+ today?

You don't celebrate a Starc short ball at 145+ and complain about Wagner short ball at 130 as unsafe. One will do more damage to the body than the other.

Safety is not the issue.

Scoring? Bowlers are meant to bowl to fields within the fielding rules.

So what is controversial? Or is it just new, just different, and stopping Smith from scoring endless back to back centuries?

Chest guard exists. You can stop a broken or brusied rib from a 130 bowler.. A helmet will NOT NECESSARILY  STOP A CONCUSSION  from a 140+ bowler.

The issue is not safety. If its safety. Stop bowling so fast. And at the head. But its not about safety. 

Is it negative bowling? No - Wagner is saying "hit the ball". There is an easy and fair shot to play to it. The batsmen don't, cos they are scared of giving a catch a fielder, so the batsman don't care about their own safety. So they should evade if they want to be negative. Why they stand there and take it ont he body like Wade and Smith, I do not get it. Ive watched Wager do this to lots of teams. Ive seen many players handle it differently. SL were really good at managing it. Aus less so.

One thing is for sure, as much as you complain about it, Steve Smith will receive more and more of it from foreign players... earlier and earlier. 


Paddles, can you raise this in the separate new thread about bowling tactics?
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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 6:49 PM
Paddles - 27 Dec 2019 6:20 PM

Paddles, can you raise this in the separate new thread about bowling tactics?

I can but I won't. It's relevant here.

I have no intention to start a new thread about bowling tactics outside spinners and the lack of need for them in SA, Aus and NZ... :)


Edited
2 Years Ago by Paddles
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I missed most of the game today apart from the first  30 min - and - the last 20 min from Patto's close decision for the LBW.

I also saw Paine;  from his 60 runs onwards and Head batting from 85 until he got out too.



Can someone fill me in how Paine scored his first  60?

Did he hook and pull a lot of short balls?

He scored at a much higher strike rate than his predecessors.


I  thought the Kiwis stuck to the bowling task very well from what I saw.

Thoughts?




Also, without the steady Hazlewood, did the Aus pace attack look disciplined enough? 

Cummins seems to bowl within himself these days, but Starc, Patto and him are a  very fearsome pace attack if they are all bowling  flat out.



Edited
2 Years Ago by Decentric
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baggygreenmania - 27 Dec 2019 3:46 PM
baggygreenmania - 27 Dec 2019 3:07 PM

Excellent knock Tim Paine. Looked in control for the most part. Liked the way he put the pressure back on the BCs with his attacking mindset the moment he came to the crease.

Thanks, Baggers.
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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 6:57 PM
I missed most of the game today apart from the first  30 min - and - the last 20 min from Patto's close decision for the LBW.

I also saw Paine;  from his 60 runs onwards and Head batting from 85 until he got out too.



Can someone fill me in how Paine scored his first  60?

Did he hook and pull a lot of short balls?

He scored at a much higher strike rate than his predecessors.


I  thought the Kiwis stuck to the bowling task very well from what I saw.

Thoughts?




Also, without the steady Hazlewood, did the Aus pace attack look disciplined enough? 

Cummins seems to bowl within himself these days, but Starc, Patto and him are a  very fearsome pace attack if they are all bowling  flat out.



Paine and Head won the match for Straya. 

Paine caught everyone off guard by attacking off side against every not Wagner. 

Head just stubbornly continued.

They killed the game for NZC.

That 150 run partnership broke it open for Aus.

Well played Paine. He attacked. He won..

But Paine just pounced for his first 40 to 50 runs. Came out of the blocks running.

But well played today.
Edited
2 Years Ago by Paddles
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Lastbroadcast - 27 Dec 2019 12:41 PM
Santner leaking runs again. He's not allowing the NZ fast bowlers to rest. 

He's got a big problem with his action. He doesn't stay side on for long enough, so his leading arm actually tucks into his ribs instead of "pulling through". He ends up letting the ball go with his body facing the batsman. The only way you can get the ball to spin with an action like that is to make your bowling shoulder do all the work and to bowl way too round arm - so he lets go of the ball with an even more sideways arm and tries to spin it out of the side of his hand, rather than out the top. There's very little rotation of his body through the crease or over the top of his front leg, and this means he gets no loop. 

A front on action with a sideways arm is a very difficult action to control, and that's why he is spraying it all over the place. 

Thanks a bunch for this analysis, Lastbroadcast.

Great to have  you posting again, mate.

I know you are a finger spinner in club cricket,  previously explaining the arm ball well.



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Paddles - 27 Dec 2019 7:02 PM
Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 6:57 PM

Paine and Head won the match for Straya. 

Paine caught everyone off guard by attacking. 

Head just stubbornly continued.

They killed the game for NZC.

That 150 run partnership broke it open for Aus.

Well played Paine. He attacked. He won..

But Paine just pounced for his first 40 to 50 runs. Came out of the blocks running.

But well played today.

Ta.

What about the Aussie pace attack's discipline?
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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 7:10 PM
Paddles - 27 Dec 2019 7:02 PM

Ta.

What about the Aussie pace attack's discipline?

Merry Christmas, everyone! What's the thought on the pitch, so far?
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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 7:10 PM
Paddles - 27 Dec 2019 7:02 PM

Ta.

What about the Aussie pace attack's discipline?

They were fresh the whole time. So it doesn't matter really. Commentators gave Starc some grief. But he was fast and fierce.

For mine, J Patto's pace dropped real fast. I am worried about his future.  I think he as much talent as anyone. But not if his pace drops this fast, esp after getting KW and only bowling 5 overs.

But that's just me. others may think differently. Pat Cummins was sharp for his speel. Outside off and short as usual. Tidy.
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ThingyBob - 27 Dec 2019 7:18 PM
Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 7:10 PM

Merry Christmas, everyone! What's the thought on the pitch, so far?

You are about two days too late Bobbie.:P

Best MCG pitch I have seen for ages.  Yesterday it was in favor of the ball. Smithy said he "never felt in". Today it looked a good cricket wicket. You bowl well you get wickets.. bat well you score runs. They did not bowl all that well.. except Wagner and we did bat well. Looks like a winning score for us.

Edited
2 Years Ago by baggygreenmania
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Maybe the only way to stop Wagner bowling his leg theory stuff is to wide him every time the ball passes outside the leg stump or is perceived to hit a player outside.
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baggygreenmania - 27 Dec 2019 7:41 PM
Maybe the only way to stop Wagner bowling his leg theory stuff is to wide him every time the ball passes outside the leg stump or is perceived to hit a player outside.

Bowling outside leg stump isnt a wide in test cricket unless a deliberate no scoring ploy. You want a new wide rule for Wagner or for test cricket in general?

It won't stop Wagner, he bowls far less outside leg than Hick claims. Fox, 7 and cric vix have the stats. It won't stop Neil. He is fit enough, and successful enough to bowl 27 wides a day and not care. But he won't be bowling that many wide of leg stump :) Maybe 8 a day max. Being generous against Neil. I doubt its even that high. He is a left armer after all and bowls around to left hand batsmen...

And you don't get a wide for hitting a player. Anywhere. Ever. A wide means wide of the person. You cannot be hit as a batsman and ask for a wide. Not even on your pad. You need to find a reason why Wagner should be stopped.

If its safety, bouncers at the head and bowling 140+ are far more dangerous to player welfare and safety. if the batsman cared about their own safety, they would play a shot or evade it, instead of letting it hit them in wicket preservation mode and not even trying to move out of the way early.

That is the problem with every argument. Wagner is not as dangerous as a fast bowler at the head. Starc will likely kill or hospitalize someone if not many before Neil. We all know this. Neil isnt at heads. And isn't fast. So its not about safety. Wade wears these on the elbow repeatedly and happily. He could wave the bat or avoid them. He chooses not too.

So if not safety. And if Wagner wants them to play shots on the leg side, which he does, as he bowls it close enough to hit, its not negative, so what's the issue? 

The issue is you don't like it. It's that simple. But there is no other reason. Its not safety, you like fast bowlers bowling at heads at 150km. Its not defensive or negative cricket, Wagner wants the batsman to play a pull shot. He really does. Here is a short ball at 128 km/h - hit it. But they don't want to cos a fielder is there. And that is why you just don't like it. It's that simple. You don't like the field being set for it. Fielders have nothing to do with safety. :) And bowling to your field is not negative - esp when you want catches!

Wagner and world cricket needs a better reason than Aussie fans don't like it. Now if he does it to India and Kohli, and they cry, the rules may get changed, or NZC just tell him to stop. But what rule changes, no pitching outside leg ever?  Bye bye Warnie bowled behind legs. Nothing bouncing above hip more than twice an over? Bye bye catches off cut shots and many gully catches. I mean any rule change will wreck cricket for life.

But its India's game for fans. No other fans matter cos they're not worth money.  Let's see if Wagner does it to India. And if their fans moan. :) And demand changes. Lets see how cricket gets ruined for life.

If India does, NZC  might bow to India and stop letting him bowl it seeing they own the world game and will actually tour NZ once every 6 years and let us make some money playing them... -unlike certain nations. :) But NZC only owes every other nation that it abides by the rules. India is special, we need their crumbs. You may worry about Wagner'ship and rub balls. I worry about how NZC, Ban, SCA, Pak, SL, WI will remain financially viable. But noone else seems to care about that... :) Different priorities I guess. But if NZC dig deep, and the rules change. Well if the game descends to what fans do like and do not like, the only fans that matter are Indian. That's the reality.

Will India with Yadav, Bumrah, Shami and Sharma want to bowl it next year to Smith? Or have above hip height balls banned. Hmmm. Interesting.

When I was a kid, Cricket Australia ruled world cricket. Its hilarious some of their fans seem to think they still do. The Aus fan is not paying anyone else's bills, the only thing that matters is the Indian fan that is paying bills. If fan likes matter to rule changes...

Put simply, its not about safety. Its about what fans like. Aus fans don't pay the bills for NZC, SCA, SL, Ban, WI, Pak, Afg, Ire, Ind, Eng, so we need a better reason than you don't like it before wrecking the rules of test cricket for your tastes.
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2 Years Ago by Paddles
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Decentric - 27 Dec 2019 7:10 PM
Paddles - 27 Dec 2019 7:02 PM

Ta.

What about the Aussie pace attack's discipline?

Starc fast but inaccurate. I saw him swing one with the new cherry. Agree on Pattinson.. All the talk that he was ready to rip in. Looked menacing at first and then he dropped off. Star for mine was Cummins.. accurate, threatening. Back to his best. Be good to see what they produce tomorrow as the temps are rising.
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The kiwis aren't out of it yet obviously, but they are making it difficult for themselves. That wasn't a great bowling performance on day 1 especially. When you put the opposition in to make use of good bowling conditions with the ball swinging and seaming around, yet your 120k part time trundler is by far your best and most threatening bowler, something is wrong.

Some very strange tactics being used. It seems they must have concluded before the series began that their bowling wasn't up to task, so they are going unconventional. It's making for some scrappy (aka ugly) cricket. It is also helping us IMO, apart from slowing the scoring rate. Perhaps slowing us down is the aim of it?

They may storm it from here and make it seem a genius move. Then again Santner might also bag a five fa (0-228 after 3 innings at the moment). 

If they can dawdle their way to 300 or more this might be drawn match, unless someone collapses spectacularly 2nd innings.


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Only Abbot and Bumrah have outbowled Wagner in Australia as a tourist this decade so far.... Not bad seeing Southee stole all the tail end wickets today (again). Bumrah, though - clearly an outstanding bowler. But then - Wagner is taking on the full Australian team. It does seem, match after match, that Australian batsmen do not find his military medium short stuff easy to score from and not lose their wicket too. Match after match. Its 3 matches in a row now. If only the rest of the Kiwi bowlers gave Neil some support. NZ should really be looking for a new Neil Wagner clone already.  And several of them. 

I think Australia might have to expect a few more short barrage sessions coming their way soon until they learn to play it as well as the other nations Neil bowls it too. Cos right now - he likes bowling to Aus.


Overall figures
KJ Abbott (SA)2016-20162474.519193136/779/11814.842.5734.510investigate this query
JJ Bumrah (INDIA)2018-201948157.148357216/339/8617.002.2744.910investigate this query
N Wagner (NZ)2019-20192398.022234114/837/15121.272.3853.400investigate this query
CS Martin (NZ)2011-20112461.01117983/464/8922.372.9345.700investigate this query
K Rabada (SA)2016-201636108.120336155/927/17022.403.1043.210investigate this query
Mohammad Asif (PAK)2010-20102492.022246106/418/9424.602.6755.210investigate this query
CT Tremlett (ENG)2010-201348158.333517215/878/15024.613.2645.210investigate this query
TT Bresnan (ENG)2010-201348145.139421164/506/7526.312.9054.400investigate this query
M Morkel (SA)2012-201235109.023399145/1468/19628.503.6646.710investigate this query
RA Jadeja (INDIA)2018-20192389.02520073/825/12728.572.2476.200investigate this query
VD Philander (SA)2012-201659170.338482165/215/5230.122.8263.910investigate this query
Mohammed Shami (INDIA)2014-2019714263.143956316/566/13630.833.6350.920investigate this query
JM Anderson (ENG)2010-20181528627.11631713555/437/12731.142.7368.410investigate this query
RAS Lakmal (SL)2013-20192357.01418865/755/7531.333.2957.010investigate this query
DAJ Bracewell (NZ)2011-2015510159.125540176/409/6031.763.3956.110investigate this query
Z Khan (INDIA)2011-201246147.022477154/777/13031.803.2458.800investigate this query
DW Steyn (SA)2012-201646122.125421134/407/11232.383.4456.300investigate this query
BA Stokes (ENG)2013-201448116.514492156/998/16132.804.2146.710investigate this query
KP Pietersen (ENG)2010-20141039.013311/101/1033.003.6654.000investigate this query
ST Finn (ENG)2010-201036107.49464146/1256/15033.144.3046.110investigate this query
HMRKB Herath (SL)2012-201335134.416407125/957/14233.913.0267.310investigate this query
Wahab Riaz (PAK)2016-201735100.014400114/895/13636.364.0054.500investigate this query
PD Collingwood (ENG)2010-20115631.067321/31/536.502.3593.000investigate this query
TA Boult (NZ)2011-201959171.023660185/607/10136.663.8557.010investigate this query
TG Southee (NZ)2011-2019712256.049851235/699/16237.003.3266.710investigate this query
SCJ Broad (ENG)2010-20181221426.4961264346/818/13637.172.9675.210

Philander, Steyn, Anderson, Broad, all in his wake tbh... interesting. But for me - and I said beofre the series started I would be interested in this - its getting Smith 3/3 this series and 4/5 in career with the short ball. I find this fascinating. Smith made a great 80 odd today - total champion, but that's half his career average at the MCG. And he was rattled with so many times yesterday and today by Wagner. 

Fascinating stuff. Love test contests between bat and ball. Love Neil Wagner. Such a great addition to world cricket. Hope he gives us 3 more years.

I get why Australia are so bad in Asia, it spins, but why are you so bad against short pitched military medium? I mean the Asian teams like SL seem to play it better, tbh. Only Bangladesh has played it as badly as Aus.

Still unlike most teams, Aus will get a 4th test after this one to show that they can play the short military medium 5'8" Wagner half trackers... But I think Aus may have to get used to a lot more short stuff next year...
Edited
2 Years Ago by Paddles
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Good to see Paine free his arms, also a good knock from Head. Full marks to Smith also, for steadying the ship on day 1. It didn't seem like such an easy wicket to score on.

As it's a different base to the old drop in, hope it breaks up towards the end of the match. Will help Lyon if it does.

I wonder if the kiwis bowled first because of the conditions, or they just didn't like the idea of facing our bowlers those conditions. Maybe both?



Edited
2 Years Ago by flyslip
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