Aus v NZ 2nd Test


Aus v NZ 2nd Test

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Well - its onto Melbourne where a  huge crowd is expected with 16k Kiwis flying over, and many expats from within Australia heading to the MCG. 

2 talking points through all the media i have read, how will the MCG pitch play? Because if it is a total road, and gets a negative rating, no MCG test next year, it will be on icc susspension. And how will Australia combat the short balls of Wagner and co. I brought up the Wagner short balls before the last test, and was ridiculed that I was wrong to even suggest they could be an issue, and that they would not trouble Smith and Co at all, just the tail enders. Not quite how the media have read that situation since with all 6 Aussie batsmen getting out to shortballs, including supremo Steve Smith twice to Wagner - (he now has him 3/4 innings with a short ball). I did read Graham Hick having a whine and moan about short pitch bowling as being negative. Yes negative. Hopefully that leaves about as much impression on the umpires as it deserves. Lol at negative bowling. I am really interested how Smith adjusts, here. I back him to try and put the shot away. But Wagner will keep bowling them even if Southee ceases.

For team selection, NZ is in a mess, and will drop Raval and bring in wicket keeper Blundell to open. This brings NZ's wicket keepers in the side upto 4 with Latham and Nicholls. Will Young is still injured, and Blundell has a contract, so NZ won't be bringing over some young whipper snapper with talent like Glenn Phillips, but instead send a lower middle order wicket keeper out to open, in a Boxing Day test. Interesting decision. Boult will be back, at least. 

There is no word on the NZ 4th bowler scenario, with local rags bracketing Santner with Astle. I would prefer Astle to Santner. But I think I would simply rather debuting Jamieson and going all seam. Like I would have the last test, too and said as much before on it on my preferred forum. For Aus selection, Patto is the favourite to replace Hazelwood, but Siddle is begging for a go. I am thinking they will go with Patto. I think we all see that as an obvious selection if fit. 


Anyway, have a merry xmas all. And see you all here Boxing Day :)
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9 Months Ago by Paddles
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2 talking points through all the media i have read, how will the MCG pitch play? Because if it is a total road, and gets a negative rating, no MCG test next year, it will be on icc susspension.


This is a myth. That rule was brought in after the MCG received its "poor" rating. So they have a clean slate at the moment. A "poor" rating now would only give them 3 points (5 points needed to be suspended for 12 months). 

If it is a slow and lacklustre "nothing" wicket as previously it will probably help the kiwi batsmen more than ours.  Our batsmen (and our bowlers) prefer pacey, bouncy wickets.

And how will Australia combat the short balls of Wagner and co. 
   

A 300 run loss seems to indicate this is way overblown as usual. Never really troubled Smith, he just hit them straight off the middle of the bat to the field. Far faster and better bowlers have tried. I might work one day, probably has to if you try it enough, but the odds are against the bowler here.

Snagged a few in the second innings when the match was already lost and Aus were only batting to time their declaration. Standard MO for Wagner. Southee was far better all match (including his short ball).

It's a bit humorous the kiwis claiming Smith's 43 was a failure, when they lost a whole 19 of their 20 wickets for lesser score lol. None of them were simply filling in time either, they really needed runs.

If Aus hadn't been a bowler short they probably would have declared after tea on day 3 anyway.

  
For team selection, NZ is in a mess, and will drop Raval and bring in wicket keeper Blundell to open.

    
Can't help thinking that Raval scored as many runs as Santner, yet at least took a wicket, was more economical and bowled far better. They might have been better moving Raval down the order in place of him. Unless he (Santner)  was really unusually off his game and is much better than that performance. Will wait and see how he goes.

 

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ps. Merry Christmas to you too Paddles.
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flyslip - 23 Dec 2019 3:50 PM
None of them were simply filling in time either, they really needed runs.


 

Should have read "none of them were simply filling in time for declaration either, they needed runs (1st innings) and were batting to save the match (2nd inings). Yet only one score equal to or greater than 43. That might say something about the way to bowl successfully on such a pitch.
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If NZ learnt one thing from Perth, I hope Wagner's first spell, and Southee's second spell,  is short, and not 2 length first spells this time. ;)

Just hit them with the short sutff as soon as that death of cricket kookaburra is dead. 10 overs I guess not under lights - being generous.\

But Wagner - what a bowler. What team in the world wouldn't he make? :) Bar the world class attacks of India and Safrica of course.

The mediocre attacks of Aus, NZ, Pak, SL, Bang, I dont see who is heeping out :) Wi with ROach, Holder and Grabriel is hard to gauge, but 4th seamer, for sure.... :)
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Paddles - 23 Dec 2019 9:35 PM
If NZ learnt one thing from Perth, I hope Wagner's first spell, and Southee's second spell,  is short, and not 2 length first spells this time. ;)

Just hit them with the short sutff as soon as that death of cricket kookaburra is dead. 10 overs I guess not under lights - being generous.\

But Wagner - what a bowler. What team in the world wouldn't he make? :) Bar the world class attacks of India and Safrica of course.

The mediocre attacks of Aus, NZ, Pak, SL, Bang, I dont see who is heeping out :) Wi with ROach, Holder and Grabriel is hard to gauge, but 4th seamer, for sure.... :)

I'm not sure if you are trolling or not, Paddles?

I sometimes think there are two Paddles who post here. One with a clear mind and the other under the effect of a substance or liquid.
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flyslip - 23 Dec 2019 3:50 PM


2 talking points through all the media i have read, how will the MCG pitch play? Because if it is a total road, and gets a negative rating, no MCG test next year, it will be on icc susspension.


This is a myth. That rule was brought in after the MCG received its "poor" rating. So they have a clean slate at the moment. A "poor" rating now would only give them 3 points (5 points needed to be suspended for 12 months). 

If it is a slow and lacklustre "nothing" wicket as previously it will probably help the kiwi batsmen more than ours.  Our batsmen (and our bowlers) prefer pacey, bouncy wickets.

And how will Australia combat the short balls of Wagner and co. 
   

A 300 run loss seems to indicate this is way overblown as usual. Never really troubled Smith, he just hit them straight off the middle of the bat to the field. Far faster and better bowlers have tried. I might work one day, probably has to if you try it enough, but the odds are against the bowler here.

Snagged a few in the second innings when the match was already lost and Aus were only batting to time their declaration. Standard MO for Wagner. Southee was far better all match (including his short ball).

It's a bit humorous the kiwis claiming Smith's 43 was a failure, when they lost a whole 19 of their 20 wickets for lesser score lol. None of them were simply filling in time either, they really needed runs.

If Aus hadn't been a bowler short they probably would have declared after tea on day 3 anyway.

  
For team selection, NZ is in a mess, and will drop Raval and bring in wicket keeper Blundell to open.

    
Can't help thinking that Raval scored as many runs as Santner, yet at least took a wicket, was more economical and bowled far better. They might have been better moving Raval down the order in place of him. Unless he (Santner)  was really unusually off his game and is much better than that performance. Will wait and see how he goes.

 

I thought Raval should have been used more as a bowler in the second innings.

It might have been coincidental, but I thought  both Santner and Raval  beat the outside edge of right hand batters a bit.
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There has been all talk in the media about Pattinson's return, but I'm interested to see if Australia will use Neser at number 7?

It will certainly reduce the pace bowlers' bowling load, particularly if the pitch is flat.


I posit that even though Paine and Neser are arguably weak players for 6 and 7 based on current form, Patto, Starc and Cummins are much stronger than almost any other batting line up at 8, 9 and 10.
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These days I don't have much times for sports forums, bu ti had a quick look at Whirlpool's cricket forum yesterday. 

Some of the comments frorn those guys are as though they are in cuckoo land!

 The majority  just don't understand how a sports team operates. There are also a lot of cynical types. I though the FTBL Forum had deteriorated with more cynics and negative posters in recent times, but maybe it is the current nature of sporting forums?

There is even a separate thread for "Pet hates At Gyms.' There is also a Weighlifting Thread, which  isn't too bad. It amazes  how many don't want to talk to other people at gyms, but go online to complain about it!

On Whirlpool Cricket Forum apart from one poster who posts regularly  here and one other, they all think Paine should not be Test captain and dropped from the team! From a greater insight into another sport, many of the guys on Whirlpool have no idea about team cohesion,  emotional maturity in leadership, specific game plan tactics, morale and collaborative leadership. Notwithstanding, some  pundits (former Test cricketers) are currently mooting  Paine as top keeper in world cricket!

They also seem to have no idea a captain is carrying out coaching match plans, based on analysts  scrutinising every available bits of data on where some teams, and individuals, are strong or weak.

Moreover, Australia has essentially just won three series in a row -  and are well placed to win a fourth   against the Kiwis, with Paine as captain. 

It is like sheep following sheep. I have seen this phenomenon in other sports.

A few who are  wrong convince many others, so that a large group of fans with little insight in a sport, believe a professional  coach is wrong in decisions they've made. This is  because  a majority of fans with no knowledge whatsoever about professional coaching in that particular sport, share the same view. 


Of course I would not question the judgement of  a professional coach like Langer, but I'd like him to provide more info as to why the Marsh bothers have had so many chances, and, why Siddle is constantly mooted as a Test bowler with the Kookaburra in Aus?

I think Baggers would agree, but when Victoria played Tas in Hobart in a recent Shield game, Siddle was outperformed by teammates Tremain and probably Boland, with Patto not selected. Also, Bird, Pyecroft and Meredith outbowled him from Tas. 





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Merry Xmas to all!
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Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:24 AM
Paddles - 23 Dec 2019 9:35 PM

I'm not sure if you are trolling or not, Paddles?

I sometimes think there are two Paddles who post here. One with a clear mind and the other under the effect of a substance or liquid.

You don't rate Wagner? Or you don't rate the Indian and Safrican attacks as better than everyone else's? You rate the Kookaburra ball for bowlers? You don't think Neil should go straight to the short stuff after Boult and Southee do the new ball? Really?

Safrican attack is set to have a huge blow, Philander is about to retire after the England series. I think Neil would make their team after he retires too.

Keep wondering about me and my mind. ;)
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9 Months Ago by Paddles
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flyslip - 23 Dec 2019 3:50 PM


2 talking points through all the media i have read, how will the MCG pitch play? Because if it is a total road, and gets a negative rating, no MCG test next year, it will be on icc susspension.


This is a myth. That rule was brought in after the MCG received its "poor" rating. So they have a clean slate at the moment. A "poor" rating now would only give them 3 points (5 points needed to be suspended for 12 months). 

If it is a slow and lacklustre "nothing" wicket as previously it will probably help the kiwi batsmen more than ours.  Our batsmen (and our bowlers) prefer pacey, bouncy wickets.

And how will Australia combat the short balls of Wagner and co. 
   

A 300 run loss seems to indicate this is way overblown as usual. Never really troubled Smith, he just hit them straight off the middle of the bat to the field. Far faster and better bowlers have tried. I might work one day, probably has to if you try it enough, but the odds are against the bowler here.

Snagged a few in the second innings when the match was already lost and Aus were only batting to time their declaration. Standard MO for Wagner. Southee was far better all match (including his short ball).

It's a bit humorous the kiwis claiming Smith's 43 was a failure, when they lost a whole 19 of their 20 wickets for lesser score lol. None of them were simply filling in time either, they really needed runs.

If Aus hadn't been a bowler short they probably would have declared after tea on day 3 anyway.

  
For team selection, NZ is in a mess, and will drop Raval and bring in wicket keeper Blundell to open.

    
Can't help thinking that Raval scored as many runs as Santner, yet at least took a wicket, was more economical and bowled far better. They might have been better moving Raval down the order in place of him. Unless he (Santner)  was really unusually off his game and is much better than that performance. Will wait and see how he goes.

 

You pretty much said what I was going to fs. So will leave it there.
Just one thing Paddles. Wagner has a good short ball tactic.. works ok on the bouncier decks.. but his pace is going to be negated somewhat on the slower,lower MCG deck. Our blokes.. all of them.. can test the speed gun at 145+.. unlike your pop gun attack. So think twice about starting a bouncer war it may get brutal and the Black Caps will come our more bruised than we will.

You too have a Happy Christmas.
 
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:12 PM
flyslip - 23 Dec 2019 3:50 PM

You pretty much said what I was going to fs. So will leave it there.
Happy Christmas Paddles. Just one thing . Wagner has a good short ball tactic.. works ok on the bouncier decks.. but his pace is going to be negated somewhat on the slower,lower MCG deck. Our blokes.. all of them.. can test the speed gun at 145+.. unlike your pop gun attack. So think twice about starting a bouncer war as it may get brutal and the Black Caps will come our more bruised than we will.

Bobbie, DC, grazor and flyslip. Happy Christmas.  Over drink and over eat. We do every year.
Baggers.




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9 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:29 AM
There has been all talk in the media about Pattinson's return, but I'm interested to see if Australia will use Neser at number 7?

It will certainly reduce the pace bowlers' bowling load, particularly if the pitch is flat.


I posit that even though Paine and Neser are arguably weak players for 6 and 7 based on current form, Patto, Starc and Cummins are much stronger than almost any other batting line up at 8, 9 and 10.

Good points DC. I posted something similar on WP and was shot down in flames . "Paine at #6 no way" most said. There sure are some Paine haters there. Two or maybe three only posters are for him.. me included.  Prefer Tim at #6 over Head. A four pronged pace attack sounds good. Not sure the Black caps wud welcome that too much. CA is only going to allow this if the deck is batting friendly and five batsmen will do the trick. I agree all the tail can bat.. even Lyon is no mug.
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:16 PM
baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:12 PM



Merry Christmas to you, Baggers.

You might be my favourite poster on this forum, mate!
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:25 PM
Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:29 AM

Good points DC. I posted something similar on WP and was shot down in flames . "Paine at #6 no way" most said. There sure are some Paine haters there. Two or maybe three only posters are for him.. me included.  Prefer Tim at #6 over Head. A four pronged pace attack sounds good. Not sure the Black caps wud welcome that too much. CA is only going to allow this if the deck is batting friendly and five batsmen will do the trick. I agree all the tail can bat.. even Lyon is no mug.

They can't be looking at the extra batting qualities of Starc, Cymmins and Pattinson then to compensate. There is also an increased chance of getting another team out for a lower score with a five pronged attack than a four pronged one. Less runs might be required when batting.

What happened to your mate, Mike? 



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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:12 PM
flyslip - 23 Dec 2019 3:50 PM


Just one thing Paddles. Wagner has a good short ball tactic.. works ok on the bouncier decks.. but his pace is going to be negated somewhat on the slower,lower MCG deck. Our blokes.. all of them.. can test the speed gun at 145+.. unlike your pop gun attack. So think twice about starting a bouncer war it may get brutal and the Black Caps will come our more bruised than we will.


 

Agree with all this, Baggers.
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Paddles - 24 Dec 2019 11:55 AM
Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:24 AM


Keep wondering about me and my mind. ;)

I do.
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Paddles - 24 Dec 2019 11:55 AM
Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:24 AM

You don't rate Wagner? Or you don't rate the Indian and Safrican attacks as better than everyone else's? You rate the Kookaburra ball for bowlers? You don't think Neil should go straight to the short stuff after Boult and Southee do the new ball? Really?

Safrican attack is set to have a huge blow, Philander is about to retire after the England series. I think Neil would make their team after he retires too.


Others have suggested that the Australian attack is much faster than the Kiwi attack. The speed gun shows they are correct.  

Also, on a flatter pitch 125kph Kiwi short balls are run fodder.
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Not sure which poster likes putting the boot into Tim Paine on every occasion. There are plenty on WP.. so I typed this for them.
Pleased I have an ally on this point too. No doubt at the time of his terrible finger injury he was our best keeper and shud've had a long Test career. By the time of his recall (he was 34) Paine may have lost some of his keeping powers but retained sufficient along with his previous captaincy and people skills plus his mentoring ability to convince CA he had what was needed  to take the helm of a fractured cricket team. 

Funny aint it.. a missed run out or tuff stumping and an element on here almost crucify him.. No mention of the screamer low diving catch or the smart stumping he pulls off. Always the negative things. The main point I keep trying to make is a combination keeper/captain must be the hardest task in cricket. You have to concentrate for every ball of every session as well as think tactically. A hell of a mental job. Think about that those 
 that enjoy putting the boot into the Australian cricket captain.



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9 Months Ago by baggygreenmania
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:12 PM
flyslip - 23 Dec 2019 3:50 PM

You pretty much said what I was going to fs. So will leave it there.
Just one thing Paddles. Wagner has a good short ball tactic.. works ok on the bouncier decks.. but his pace is going to be negated somewhat on the slower,lower MCG deck. Our blokes.. all of them.. can test the speed gun at 145+.. unlike your pop gun attack. So think twice about starting a bouncer war it may get brutal and the Black Caps will come our more bruised than we will.

You too have a Happy Christmas.
 

Uhmmm, Wagner started the bouncer war with Australia in 2015/16. It's pretty much all out there. NZ isn't thinking twice. It's going to happen. 

Yes - the Australian fast bowlers are definitely faster than NZ's. By some margin. 

Wagner averages 22.64 vs Australia, and probably more or less the same vs Smith (I am unable to get this stat on any website, but I am sure it will be published soon enough).

Now you can call the Kiwi attack "popgun", it is. It is only good in swinging conditions. In swinging conditions, Boult is the best in the world. Much better than Anderson. Proven time and time again. But we need that swing, else we're pop gun, like Anderson, its true. If its swining, even with a Kookaburra, Boult and Southee will roll England for well under 100. Its just how it is, our boys swing very very well. They could teach your pace boys a thing or two about swing. 

But Wagner's bouncers - as slow as they are - are getting your batsmen out cheaply. On flatties. As much as you hate to admit it. Now fair is fair, you have won both tests that Wagner has excelled in, with solid bowling and great batting. You really have. But Wagner in both tests never went to it first or second spell. He waited to the third spell. I think that's too late. 

Now Perth was slow. Chch was faster iirc. Will the MCG not bounce as high? Wagner doesn't care. He has bowled bouncers on non bouncing pitches all over NZ. He doesn't need bounce. Which you fail to understand. His friend is the lack of bounce and the skid.... Think about it. He wants them hip to shoulder, not at the head. He isnt bowling real bouncers. Just short stuff... And he is short and skiddy. And the less it grips, and the more it skids, the quicker he comes on from his slow pace at a short height. Basic physics.

But 145 km/h bouncers - from big tall men, our guys will just duck them. Back of a legnth to KW and Taylor, that ended Mitch J's entire test career at Perth. Of all places. The bouncer war has already started. Wagner is 2-0 and Aus is 2-0 over NZ int he series score, but Wagner is winning the personal contest, he cannot be blamed for his teammates letting him down. He did his job. 

:)
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9 Months Ago by Paddles
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Keyboard Warrior - 24 Dec 2019 2:50 PM
baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:25 PM

They can't be looking at the extra batting qualities of Starc, Cymmins and Pattinson then to compensate. There is also an increased chance of getting another team out for a lower score with a five pronged attack than a four pronged one. Less runs might be required when batting.

What happened to your mate, Mike? 



Ask him KW. 

Gotta agree. We need a strong specialist bat at #6 or at the very least a keeper who gets regular 50s and the odd 100 and can hold his own in any side for his keeping abilities. I believe Alex Carey will be able to do that. 
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Paddles - 24 Dec 2019 3:08 PM
baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:12 PM

Uhmmm, Wagner started the bouncer war with Australia in 2015/16. It's pretty much all out there. NZ isn't thinking twice. It's going to happen. 

Yes - the Australian fast bowlers are definitely faster than NZ's. By some margin. 

Wagner averages 22.64 vs Australia, and probably more or less the same vs Smith (I am unable to get this stat on any website, but I am sure it will be published soon enough).

Now you can call the Kiwi attack "popgun", it is. It is only good in swinging conditions. In swinging conditions, Boult is the best in the world. Much better than Anderson. Proven time and time again. But we need that swing, else we're pop gun, like Anderson, its true. If its swining, even with a Kookaburra, Boult and Southee will roll England for well under 100. Its just how it is, our boys swing very very well. They could teach your pace boys a thing or two about swing. 

But Wagner's bouncers - as slow as they are - are getting your batsmen out cheaply. On flatties. As much as you hate to admit it. Now fair is fair, you have won both tests that Wagner has excelled in, with solid bowling and great batting. You really have. But Wagner in both tests never went to it first or second spell. He waited to the third spell. I think that's too late. 

Now Perth was slow. Chch was faster iirc. Will the MCG not bounce as high? Wagner doesn't care. He has bowled bouncers on non bouncing pitches all over NZ. He doesn't need bounce. Which you fail to understand. His friend is the lack of bounce and the skid.... Think about it. He wants them hip to shoulder, not at the head. He isnt bowling real bouncers. Just short stuff... And he is short and skiddy. And the less it grips, and the more it skids, the quicker he comes on from his slow pace at a short height. Basic physics.

But 145 km/h bouncers - from big tall men, our guys will just duck them. Back of a legnth to KW and Taylor, that ended Mitch J's entire test career at Perth. Of all places. The bouncer war has already started. Wagner is 2-0 and Aus is 2-0 over NZ int he series score, but Wagner is winning the personal contest, he cannot be blamed for his teammates letting him down. He did his job. 

:)

As much as you wanna eulogize Wagner.. the truth of the matter is we gifted him most of his wickets in Perth. The bloke is military medium yet we made him look like a rampaging young Dennis Lillee.. Does he have some kinda spell over Australia. I say if he keeps up this short pitch leg side stuff simply start playing him like it is a T20 rather than holding your ground and gifting him a wicket with a mistimed pull shot. That will put him off his game if anything will. He may then have to actually pitch up one.
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Keyboard Warrior - 24 Dec 2019 2:46 PM
baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 2:16 PM

Merry Christmas to you, Baggers.

You might be my favourite poster on this forum, mate!

Thanks KW.  Apologies for missing you when i posted Chrissie greetings. A Merry Christmas to you and yours mate. I enjoy your input here too.
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Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:54 AM
These days I don't have much times for sports forums, bu ti had a quick look at Whirlpool's cricket forum yesterday. 

Some of the comments frorn those guys are as though they are in cuckoo land!

 The majority  just don't understand how a sports team operates. There are also a lot of cynical types. I though the FTBL Forum had deteriorated with more cynics and negative posters in recent times, but maybe it is the current nature of sporting forums?

There is even a separate thread for "Pet hates At Gyms.' There is also a Weighlifting Thread, which  isn't too bad. It amazes  how many don't want to talk to other people at gyms, but go online to complain about it!

On Whirlpool Cricket Forum apart from one poster who posts regularly  here and one other, they all think Paine should not be Test captain and dropped from the team! From a greater insight into another sport, many of the guys on Whirlpool have no idea about team cohesion,  emotional maturity in leadership, specific game plan tactics, morale and collaborative leadership. Notwithstanding, some  pundits (former Test cricketers) are currently mooting  Paine as top keeper in world cricket!

They also seem to have no idea a captain is carrying out coaching match plans, based on analysts  scrutinising every available bits of data on where some teams, and individuals, are strong or weak.

Moreover, Australia has essentially just won three series in a row -  and are well placed to win a fourth   against the Kiwis, with Paine as captain. 

It is like sheep following sheep. I have seen this phenomenon in other sports.

A few who are  wrong convince many others, so that a large group of fans with little insight in a sport, believe a professional  coach is wrong in decisions they've made. This is  because  a majority of fans with no knowledge whatsoever about professional coaching in that particular sport, share the same view. 


Of course I would not question the judgement of  a professional coach like Langer, but I'd like him to provide more info as to why the Marsh bothers have had so many chances, and, why Siddle is constantly mooted as a Test bowler with the Kookaburra in Aus?

I think Baggers would agree, but when Victoria played Tas in Hobart in a recent Shield game, Siddle was outperformed by teammates Tremain and probably Boland, with Patto not selected. Also, Bird, Pyecroft and Meredith outbowled him from Tas. 





That is about the best comment you have posted DC. Good stuff.

Now repost it on WP.. and it may wake up some of the drongos over there.
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 4:32 PM
Paddles - 24 Dec 2019 3:08 PM

As much as you wanna eulogize Wagner.. the truth of the matter is we gifted him most of his wickets in Perth. The bloke is military medium yet we made him look like a rampaging young Dennis Lillee.. Does he have some kinda spell over Australia. I say if he keeps up this short pitch leg side stuff simply start playing him like it is a T20 rather than holding your ground and gifting him a wicket with a mistimed pull shot. That will put him off his game if anything will. He may then have to actually pitch up one.

As much as you dont respect Wagner, and think he was gifted wickets, the truth of the matter is he has done this to every team. On  low NZ pitches, to foreign pitches in SA far more bouncy also. He is military medium. And he has success doing it. Against all comers. Especially Australia. He's 2/2 against you guys now, home and away. He's actually due a fail this test. And at 2/3 - should still go with at Sydney.

He hasn't got up to #3 bowler in the test rankings with pace, seam or swing. He is 5'8 - he aint getting bounce off a length, he too short. His ball's skid.  Perfect cannon fodder for a batsman. But these skiddy bouncers. It's no fluke. Aus, SA, England, SL, Pak, WI, you name it, he has done it at some point since first doing it to Aus in 2015/16 out of nowhere, with the match slipping away - he just started bowling bouncers.

Now I don't get what your counter plan is, "play him like its t20" - you will need to epxlain this to me. How would you play him bowling a short ball in t20 if not a pull shot?

The disrespect thrown at Wagner and his career achievements by Aussie posters in this forum is unfortunate. From "tail end wickets" to "gifted wickets". But he has proportionately singificantly less tail end wickets than a certain ATG Aus bowler, and thus of course significantly more top 7 wickets. And he has been doing this since 2016. Regularly. Repeatedly. Globally. Gifted? Or earned? When is it no longer luck? And a plan? And a skill? He is not a new ball bowler. He doing more than alright. The bouncers have revolutionized his career.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/233713.html?class=1;spanmin1=01+Jan+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Only SL, only SL, have had the patience to see him off. Even then, he still cleaned them out in the last innings to win the series for NZ .Pak, took the bait. WI, took the bait. SA, took the bait. Eng, took the bait. Aus, took the bait. India, he didn't do it over there - but probably should have. I think he will think about it next time, should there be one. They're here this summer. I bet he baits them.
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baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 4:44 PM
Decentric - 24 Dec 2019 9:54 AM

That is about the best post DC. Good stuff.

Now repost it on WP.. and it may wake up some of the drongos over there.



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Paddles - 24 Dec 2019 4:53 PM
baggygreenmania - 24 Dec 2019 4:32 PM

As much as you dont respect Wagner, and think he was gifted wickets, the truth of the matter is he has done this to every team. On  low NZ pitches, to foreign pitches in SA far more bouncy also. He is military medium. And he has success doing it. Against all comers. Especially Australia. He's 2/2 against you guys now, home and away. He's actually due a fail this test. And at 2/3 - should still go with at Sydney.

He hasn't got up to #3 bowler in the test rankings with pace, seam or swing. He is 5'8 - he aint getting bounce off a length, he too short. His ball's skid.  Perfect cannon fodder for a batsman. But these skiddy bouncers. It's no fluke. Aus, SA, England, SL, Pak, WI, you name it, he has done it at some point since first doing it to Aus in 2015/16 out of nowhere, with the match slipping away - he just started bowling bouncers.

Now I don't get what your counter plan is, "play him like its t20" - you will need to epxlain this to me. How would you play him bowling a short ball in t20 if not a pull shot?

The disrespect thrown at Wagner and his career achievements by Aussie posters in this forum is unfortunate. From "tail end wickets" to "gifted wickets". But he has proportionately singificantly less tail end wickets than a certain ATG Aus bowler, and thus of course significantly more top 7 wickets. And he has been doing this since 2016. Regularly. Repeatedly. Globally. Gifted? Or earned? When is it no longer luck? And a plan? And a skill? He is not a new ball bowler. He doing more than alright. The bouncers have revolutionized his career.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/233713.html?class=1;spanmin1=01+Jan+2016;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Only SL, only SL, have had the patience to see him off. Pak, took the bait. WI, took the bait. SA, took the bait. Eng, took the bait. Aus, took the bait. India, he didn't do it over there - but probably should have. I think he will think about it next time, should there be one. They're here this summer. I bet he baits them.

Never said I disrespected him. Said he has set out a tactic of bowling short stuff at his pace and it has worked for him. I will add it is a clever tactic. It is up to our brains trust to counteract that tactic by thinking outside the box. Playing him like a white ball game may be the way to go. Step inside his leg theory deliveries.. and smote him. We have the batsmen to do that. . much like Stokes did. Those Ashes Aussie quicks were 10ks faster than Wagner. and we at have least 3 bats that are better than Stokes.
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