One could say its pretty presumptuous at this point to even say there will be a national second division to be admitted into any time soon...

• South Melbourne

• Melbourne Knights

• South Hobart United

• Canberra FC

• Adelaide City

• Perth SC

South Melbourne
Geelong
Tasmania
Gold Coast
North Queensland
Auckland
South Island NZ
Fremantle
South East Melbourne (Dandi / franga area)
Canberra
Ipswich
Wollongong

It will be interesting to see what comes back.
It occurs to me that there will be a mixture of bids from non-clubs and bids from traditional clubs.
Will the FFA be biased towards the non-clubs?
Take Canberra as a example, I'm guessing preference might be given to the consortium which missed out on the bid, but it's a non-club.
Canberra has at least one largish, well resourced club, with its own club house, located in central Canberra, with it's own little boutique ground, but because it has an ethnic history, in all likelihood, it would miss out to a bid from a non-club.
And this is before we even consider A-League clubs putting in their own bids to have a reserve team in the NSD.

Yes, I believe it would be said consortium.
There is 2 clubs here with their own club-house/boutique ground (one of which is used for W-League games, the other has been used for neutral FFA Round of 32 games), and then there is a third large club which has been looking to establish their own ground over the past few years.
The issue with these clubs being admitted is not just them being ethnic, but because it will cannibalise the support base across the whole ACT. (one of the 3 clubs i mentioned is in the north of Canberra). To have Canberra represented, it either needs to be 2 rival clubs (fat chance), or 1 standalone fresh face, like Canberra United that already exists in the W-League

Whoever can afford it.

First of all I would be keen to add the following to the HAL ASAP 
Canberra ACT
Wollongong NSW
Brisbane Strikers QLD
Hobart TAS

The caveat is that the clubs firstly want to join and secondly can afford to join a national competition.
 
After that the second division will be dominated by NSW and Vic but must have representation from around the country. Qld given their participation rates is severely underestimated so I would add a few from there. I have 20 teams below - if we want less I would drop NSW and Vic teams since they are currently over represented 

These first 10 should be there to cover areas that we should be covering for a national footprint..

Manly United - a northern Sydney team is needed 
Darwin
Cairns 
Gold Coast
Sunshine Coast
Townsville
2nd Adelaide 
Launceston 
Dandenong
2nd Perth

The rest (another 6 - but up to 10) to come from 

Apia Leichhardt
Blacktown City
Sydney Olympic
Sydney United
Sutherland
Bentleigh 
Heidelberg 
Hume City
Melb Knights
SMFC

I understand what you are saying, but at the same time, it is completely contradictory to the open full pyramid concept.
If we follow your train of thought to its logical conclusion, it means there can never be an open pyramid in Australian football.

The participation rate in Qld is actually the second lowest in the country above only Victoria, but because of their total population they have the second highest number of registered participants.  They do need reasonable representation but I'm not sure that 4 outside of Brisbane is warranted.

You have included a Manly side to widen the footprint but I would also have a southern Sydney and a far west Sydney club for the same reason.  Both regions have a strong participation rate and a well defined area.

I've lived in Launceston for over 30 years now and the standard of football here is still quite poor.  I'm not sure a club here could be justified. I think it is better that the better local clubs play in the state NPL as they do now.

Wollongong Wolves
Canberra United
Hobart
APIA
Sutherland or Sydney Olympic (Playing out of the Shire)
Manly
Sydney United or Marconi 
Bentleigh/Oakleigh or Dandenong (or Team 11)
Melbourne Knights
Heidelberg
Redcliffe/Peninsula Power
Ipswich
Brisbane Strikers
Far North Qld (Cairns preferred as it is more of a Football town than Townsville but Townsville have a brand new stadium)

I have deliberately made it East Coast Centric to reduce the costs of running the league and travel. Plus with Perth Glory and Adelaide having NSL history I feel that those clubs represent the city as a whole moreso than Sydney/Melbourne and Brisbane.

I have also chosen clubs that represent areas not particularly covered by the A League both in new cities and geographic spread in population centres in Sydney (Inner West, Shire/SE, Nth Beaches, Liverpool/Fairfield) and Melbourne (Inner West, SE, North) and SEQ (that's why I could not find a place for South Melb). Also left the Gold Coast out as it's a graveyard for National sporting teams. 

Wouldn't surprise me if that's where we end up landing, the discussion around this consistently mentions the cost factor, and this will be one way of keeping the costs down.
If there aren't enough bids which can guarantee funding a team at $3 mill per annum (or whatever the cost is), expect the comp to be padded out with A-League reserves teams (in particular, the clubs from Melb, Syd and Bris)

The poster "the camel" has made a valid point about the costs of both travel and accommodation for interstate teams eg. WA,Tassie,Darwin North Queensland etc etc. I would like to use a term that is used in the USA which is nearly the same size as AUS that term is confrances & or Intrastate competition ala the FFA cup comp, this will keep costs down.......I could be on the wrong track here but some of you brighter posters could work it out by another formula.....charliecat

14 teams is unrealistic. how many teams will be able to afford a licence fee (maybe $4-$5 million) and be able to fund and annual turnover of $3-$5 million? Plus I can't see the FFA agreeing to that number of teams straight off the bat. I reckon they will start at 8-10, then expand. but it will depend on how many teams meet the proposed criteria. 


This will be unpopular, but I agree. we will need a mix of NPL teams and franchise teams. The franchise teams will come from targeted areas that may not have NPL applicants (Team 11 and Tassie for example).  

Just noticed someone mentioned two NZ teams being included.
I'd say there is zero chance of that happening.

No need for the new clubs to be franchises.  They are just clubs with a recent start year that have to operate in the same way as the existing clubs with an earlier start year.

I would hope that they go as big as they can with as many teams that can afford it. 

1) 8 - 10 teams will almost certainly mean a further concentration in Melbourne and Sydney which I believe is a mistake  
2) A bigger brighter competition will be more attractive to sponsors
3) I don't want to be waiting for expansion in the second division to an ideal number as we have been in the HAL     

Taking 'The Camel's teams these teams offer geographically different areas to the HAL teams

Wollongong Wolves
Canberra United
Hobart
Manly
Bentleigh/Oakleigh or Dandenong (or Team 11)
Ipswich
Far North Qld (Cairns preferred as it is more of a Football town than Townsville but Townsville have a brand new stadium)
Redcliffe/Peninsula Power

but how many would be preferred to 

APIA
Sutherland or Sydney Olympic (Playing out of the Shire)
Sydney United or Marconi
Melbourne Knights
Heidelberg  
Brisbane Strikers

not to mention SMFC

Pure delusion if you think South wont be in this.

I hope you're right.
I know South will be the first "real" club to put its hand up, but the FFA has history.

Personally I would like to see licences based of location. Would provide existing clubs or new consortium a rough idea of where they stand before they even bid
With out naming specific clubs, for a initial 10 team league something along these lines; 
1 X ACT
2 X NSW
2 X Vic
2 X Qld
1 X SA
2 X Wildcards - Best remaining bids regardless of location

deleted

That's very restrictive of a lot of the major clubs and the areas you want to encourage.  I would work with these four to join the Hal in 23/24 
Canberra 
Wollongong 
Hobart 
Brisbane Strikers or SMFC

and then you could look at 

1 X NSW
1 X Vic
1 X Qld
1 X SA
1 x WA
5 X Wildcards - Best remaining bids regardless of location

Thy have history in terms of knocking back any A league attempts the club has made, a NSD will lack serious credibility if Melbourne’s biggest club isn’t in it, it would be like starting a new A league and not having MV in it.

The market and criteria will determine the size and participants in the NSD.
Within 24 hours of the announcement of EOI investors from Malaysia and India are already seeking partners.
Will be interesting 

everyone seems to be suggesting Canberra be part of the second tier. But IMO they will be admitted to the HAL before the second tier starts.

Yep, they should be. 

And everyone seems to think all the second div clubs will be pre-existing?I highly doubt that will be the case. At least not without re-branding. 

As long as all clubs have broad based appeal, it doesn't matter if they're existing or not.

In QLD many are already broadbased whilst say in Vic, they're hard to come by. I can see new clubs here.

Rockdale Ilinden FC, has its own ground, ability to attract 4K + people midweek for a team from another state and is easily the best supported and financially backed club in southern Sydney

Just some thoughts on a process to make the allocation of spots in the 2nd division.


A nominal split for clubs should follow player registration numbers so each player has a fair opportunity to progress to the higher levels of the development pathway within the state they live in if not closer.

With 527,630 registered players (2018 season) the quota for a club in a 14 team completion would be 37,688 registered players.

FNSW - 238,459 = 6.33 quotas  0.33 available for redistribution.  To be considered later in the process.
FQld - 70,273 = 1.86 quotas  With 60% of registered players in rural Qld they need at least 2 clubs in total to get a fair split.  add 0.14 = 2.00 quotas
FVic - 68,376 = 1.81 quotas  With the high standard on the NPL in Vic they need minimum of 2 clubs.  add 0.19 = 2.00 quotas
NNSWF - 52579 = 1.40 quotas  If no clubs in this region apply for the 2nd division 1.4 quotas would be available for distribution.  If 1 club then 0.4 spare.
FWest - 44,068 = 1.17 quotas  If no clubs in this region apply for the 2nd division 1.17 quotas would be available for distribution.  If 1 club then 0.17 spare.
FSA - 24,287 = 0.64 quotas  For optimum development pathway they need at least 1 2nd division club.  add 0.36 = 1.00 quotas.
Capital Football - 16,631 = 0.44 quotas  If Canberra is already in the A-League then this would be available for redistribution.  If not then add 0.56 = 1.00 quotas
FTas - 11,668 = 0.31 quotas  For optimum development pathway they need 1 2nd division club.  add 0.69 - 1.00 quotas
FNT - 4,289 = 0.11 quotas  If no club in this region applies for the 2nd division then this would be available for redistribution.

Assuming no clubs from NNSWF, Capital Football and FNT the split would be:-

FNSW - 6.00 quotas  Redistribute 1.00 quota to FVic for better allocation.  subtract 1.00 = 5.00 quotas
FQld - 2.00 quotas  Qld would be better represented by 2 clubs in the regions and 1 in Brisbane.  add 1.00 = 3.00 quotas
FVic - 2.00 quotas  The standard of football in Victoria and their aim to increase participation quickly warrants an additional club. add 1.00 = 3.00 quotas
FWest - 1.00 quotas
FSA - 1.00 quotas
FTas - 1.00 quotas
Spare - 1.00 quotas  Redistribute to FQld. subtract 1.00 = 0.00 quotas.

An additional quota from FNSW could be redistributed if Wollongong was already in the A-League.

The advantage of using existing clubs is that it will cost them far less to get integrated into a new league. Many existing clubs already have their own branding, staff and internal infrastructure in place. Their startup expenses would be far less than a new club. This means that initial financial losses can be recovered quicker.
As for branding, I think it will be vital for the clubs to be in complete ownership of their IP. That was a huge mistake made with the HAL. Clubs need full control over their image in order to best appeal to their target fanbase.