Which clubs should be admitted into national Second division?


Which clubs should be admitted into national Second division?

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gul15 - 6 Mar 2020 2:13 PM
Personally I would like to see licences based of location. Would provide existing clubs or new consortium a rough idea of where they stand before they even bid
With out naming specific clubs, for a initial 10 team league something along these lines; 
1 X ACT
2 X NSW
2 X Vic
2 X Qld
1 X SA
2 X Wildcards - Best remaining bids regardless of location

This.. 
plus another mandate for any teams entering the NSD... Must play at a rectangular stadium 
Avoid debacle like Western United or  Tasmanian based team playing out of AFL ovals


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soccerfoo - 16 May 2021 5:35 PM
Gyfox - 16 May 2021 3:03 PM

NSD clubs can work together with A League clubs and could well gain economically from doing so, and a couple of professionals from A League clubs would also bolster the NSD clubs and these players get to play more matches as well. Ultimately, it's for the benefit for Australian soccer.

What isn't for the benefit of football is the A-league clubs taking spots in the NSD that other clubs meet the criteria for.  The independent A-league needs to supply the needs of their clubs and players without reducing the opportunities of other clubs and other players.
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Gyfox - 16 May 2021 3:03 PM
soccerfoo - 16 May 2021 1:44 PM

As I said previously... "The A-league clubs can set up a competition for their reserves."

The NSD isn't needed for the convenience of the A-league clubs, it is needed to significantly expand the opportunities for players that aren't making it to the A-league clubs.

NSD clubs can work together with A League clubs and could well gain economically from doing so, and a couple of professionals from A League clubs would also bolster the NSD clubs and these players get to play more matches as well. Ultimately, it's for the benefit for Australian soccer.
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 16 May 2021 1:44 PM
Gyfox - 16 May 2021 12:38 PM

What if the seasons don't run simultaneously???
Then the ALeague clubs will lend those young players out to no one, thin air, when it is off season for npl clubs..

As I said previously... "The A-league clubs can set up a competition for their reserves."

The NSD isn't needed for the convenience of the A-league clubs, it is needed to significantly expand the opportunities for players that aren't making it to the A-league clubs.
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Gyfox - 16 May 2021 12:38 PM
soccerfoo - 16 May 2021 11:42 AM

The A-league clubs can loan their excess professional players out to NSD clubs.  They don't need to have teams in the NSD.

What if the seasons don't run simultaneously???
Then the ALeague clubs will lend those young players out to no one, thin air, when it is off season for npl clubs..
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 16 May 2021 11:42 AM
TheDjentleman - 16 May 2021 3:21 AM

The players looking for game time will not be able to go back to NPL if the A League runs Summer Oct, till Autum May the following year.
The A League will need to send it's excess  professional players back to the league that runs at the same time as It does. 
That league should be the Second Division, running at the same time, only because there will not be any Pro/Rel. 
In that same Pod I mentioned earlier somewhere, Galatas indicated that Second Division's top teams would send teams to run in the same season
as the A League, if it is not played in the Winter. 

The A-league clubs can loan their excess professional players out to NSD clubs.  They don't need to have teams in the NSD.
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TheDjentleman - 16 May 2021 3:21 AM

soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 9:16 PM

They should play in their respective state NPL and get locked out from promoted into the NSD - like how they do it in the Bundesliga. Maybe even let NSD clubs have B-teams in the pyramid just starting lower down always having a division gap.


The players looking for game time will not be able to go back to NPL if the A League runs Summer Oct, till Autum May the following year.
The A League will need to send it's excess  professional players back to the league that runs at the same time as It does. 
That league should be the Second Division, running at the same time, only because there will not be any Pro/Rel. 
In that same Pod I mentioned earlier somewhere, Galatas indicated that Second Division clubs will send their top teams to run in the same season
as the A League, if ALeague is not played in the Winter. 
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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Monoethnic Social Club - 15 May 2021 11:41 PM
soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 9:16 PM

Isnt that what the NYL is for?   Sorry who is dying? I don't understand what you are trying to say half the time...

Our generation will 'die off' and the F-All FA will not have implemented everything the game still needs in this country. Take Second Division for instance,
it could take till 2034 to get it up and running, let alone Pro/Rel. FA and APL are politicians that say one thing and have absolutely no intention to doing it.
That dreaded 2034, it more than likely won't be changed.....2034......2034........ 2034........not 2033 BUT, 2034......The Original Politicians Lowy and Gallop (my fave)  have Spoken!!
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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Bunch of Hacks - 16 May 2021 6:28 AM
Dandenong
Wollongong
Gold Coast
NQ
Auckland
Canberra
2nd Perth team
2nd Brisbane team 
Adelaide City
South Melbourne
Christchurch / South Island
Tasmania


No rotten apples in the basket please

In a resort somewhere

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4 Years Ago by paulc
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Dandenong
Wollongong
Gold Coast
NQ
Auckland
Canberra
2nd Perth team
2nd Brisbane team 
Adelaide City
South Melbourne
Christchurch / South Island
Tasmania


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soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 9:16 PM
Gyfox - 15 May 2021 12:35 PM

The reggies need to play somewhere, pure & simple. The one reason the F-All FA would bring in 2nd Div is because it would be a reserve league so they will Save Money, till 2034. Then many die off and the next generation will reap the rewards. Good work.

They should play in their respective state NPL and get locked out from promoted into the NSD - like how they do it in the Bundesliga. Maybe even let NSD clubs have B-teams in the pyramid just starting lower down always having a division gap.



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soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 10:24 PM
Gyfox - 15 May 2021 9:45 PM

Idealy yes but it will cost them alot more to lug them around the country along with the top squad, too expensive for their budgets.
If Knights, South Melb, Qld Lions, Fremantle etc pay their own way and cut a deal to be feeder teams as well, why not?
It works for another code as well which is a good indicator.

OK ....... Good one.
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soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 9:16 PM
Gyfox - 15 May 2021 12:35 PM

The reggies need to play somewhere, pure & simple. The one reason the F-All FA would bring in 2nd Div is because it would be a reserve league so they will Save Money, till 2034. Then many die off and the next generation will reap the rewards. Good work.

Isnt that what the NYL is for?   Sorry who is dying? I don't understand what you are trying to say half the time...
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Gyfox - 15 May 2021 9:45 PM
soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 9:16 PM

The A-league clubs can set up a competition for their reserves.

Idealy yes but it will cost them alot more to lug them around the country along with the top squad, too expensive for their budgets.
If Knights, South Melb, Qld Lions, Fremantle etc pay their own way and cut a deal to be feeder teams as well, why not?
It works for another code as well which is a good indicator.
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soccerfoo - 15 May 2021 9:16 PM
Gyfox - 15 May 2021 12:35 PM

The reggies need to play somewhere, pure & simple. The one reason the F-All FA would bring in 2nd Div is because it would be a reserve league so they will Save Money, till 2034. Then many die off and the next generation will reap the rewards. Good work.

The A-league clubs can set up a competition for their reserves.
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Gyfox - 15 May 2021 12:35 PM
A-League reserves should not play in the NSD.  The whole idea of the NSD is to widen the opportunities for talented players, coaches and staff coming through the system.  The A-league clubs shouldn't take any of those spots but should provide opportunity within their own professional system to develop their players fully.

The reggies need to play somewhere, pure & simple. The one reason the F-All FA would bring in 2nd Div is because it would be a reserve league so they will Save Money, till 2034. Then many older fans die off and the next generation will reap the rewards because FA and APL take forever to take some action unless it's their own Superannuation. Good work.
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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A-League reserves should not play in the NSD.  The whole idea of the NSD is to widen the opportunities for talented players, coaches and staff coming through the system.  The A-league clubs shouldn't take any of those spots but should provide opportunity within their own professional system to develop their players fully.
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A second division acting as a reserve league is what's needed whilst there is no pro/rel. 
With npl clubs in that role, ALeague clubs won't have the extra financial burden.
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 14 May 2021 6:28 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 13 May 2021 11:13 PM

So you are linked to pppffftt??? I thought so...we need more members re maik.

You need more members for what exactly maik???? I dont follow?
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Monoethnic Social Club - 13 May 2021 11:13 PM
soccerfoo - 13 May 2021 4:51 PM

Waiting in ljne?... I had memberships to the Metro and Chasers...... waiting in line ppfffttt 😎😎😎

So you are linked to pppffftt??? I thought so...we need more members re maik.
Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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soccerfoo - 13 May 2021 4:51 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 13 May 2021 4:30 PM

They believe they are ready, they want in with the new concept. They are on the long list, it is like waiting in line for entry into the popular nightclub...

Waiting in ljne?... I had memberships to the Metro and Chasers...... waiting in line ppfffttt 😎😎😎
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ErogenousZone - 13 May 2021 5:36 PM
thekingmb - 13 May 2021 12:58 PM

Professional football clubs require between 8-15 million per year in Australia.  For some state league clubs that is doable, for some however that isn't. Such is the price of professionalism.  

15 million a year?????  So I guess only the NRL and AFL football clubs are professional in Australia?
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thekingmb - 13 May 2021 12:58 PM
gul15 - 13 May 2021 12:43 PM

All these clubs claiming they ready to go yet 80% will go bust within a season or two.

Professional football clubs require between 8-15 million per year in Australia.  For some state league clubs that is doable, for some however that isn't. Such is the price of professionalism.  
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Monoethnic Social Club - 13 May 2021 4:30 PM
soccerfoo - 13 May 2021 9:53 AM

What makes you think Avondale and Hume are Second Division ready ... serious question?
Im going to the Calabria club to watch Avondale v South on Saturday and will have to sit in a Bunnings gazebo if it is raining (at least this season they have chairs). They may have 25-50 "home" fans, what about that screams "ready for NSD" to you mate?

They believe they are ready, they want in with the new concept. They are on the long list, it is like waiting in line for entry into the popular nightclub...

Edited
4 Years Ago by soccerfoo
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thekingmb - 13 May 2021 12:58 PM
gul15 - 13 May 2021 12:43 PM

All these clubs claiming they ready to go yet 80% will go bust within a season or two.

How do you know?
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gul15 - 13 May 2021 12:43 PM
If so many teams are interested why not have 2 divisions of 10/12 teams. ( Lets call them A1 and A2 with the current A League being AL)

My only prevision would be that the A1 is fully professional, while the A2 can cater for the clubs who don't currently have the resources to become fully pro but do have the ambition.
The only way to get to A1 is obviously top A2 and either already be fully pro or be ready to go upon promotion. This will also obviously benefit any future promotion from A1 to AL.

I don't really care if it is a league full of plastic franchises or full of 100 year old ethnic clubs, I think one level below the AL should be fully pro from day dot, this along with your standard minimum facilities/ development entry requirements for each level should benefit the whole football network in this country for generations.



Doesn't seem fair on the A1 teams that you expect them to be fully "professional" and financially sound  when winning the league would promote them to a league where 3 out of the 12 "clubs" are on metaphorical "job keeper".
In an ideal world I agree with your sentiments but realistically waiting until NSD is "professional" when the Aleague clearly isnt is farcical.
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Gyfox - 13 May 2021 10:58 AM
Buggalugs the Third - 13 May 2021 9:29 AM

The 35 know that they won't all get in to the NSD and they know that there will be a bidding process where the clubs that best fit the selection criteria will be granted a licence.  That is the appropriate method of establishing a new competition and it is FIFA and AFC compliant.  The only thing we can hope is that it is a transparent process.

I can't see much complaining happening but there could of course be disappointed clubs.  My reading of the FIFA/AFC club licensing regulations is that there has to be an appeals process and a separate appeals body for club licensing but that appears to be set up for clubs that are applying for renewal of their annual license that are excluded from continuing in a competition.  It doesn't appear to be appropriate when setting up a new competition unless the club is being excluded because it doesn't satisfy the selection criteria.
It might be appropriate but I dont believe the clubs that dont "meet selection criteria" have any avenue for appeal.


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thekingmb - 13 May 2021 12:58 PM
gul15 - 13 May 2021 12:43 PM

All these clubs claiming they ready to go yet 80% will go bust within a season or two.

Maybe WSW and the Real Estate FC guys can bail them out if they do?
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soccerfoo - 13 May 2021 9:53 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 12 May 2021 11:12 PM

Ok you obviously get the point..although, Avondale & Hume are Second Division ready, regardless of how much history they have..

What makes you think Avondale and Hume are Second Division ready ... serious question?
Im going to the Calabria club to watch Avondale v South on Saturday and will have to sit in a Bunnings gazebo if it is raining (at least this season they have chairs). They may have 25-50 "home" fans, what about that screams "ready for NSD" to you mate?
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