'We need to cut the visa spots back' - Former Socceroo speaks out on A-League imports [Comments]


'We need to cut the visa spots back' - Former Socceroo speaks out on...

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'We need to cut the visa spots back' - Former Socceroo speaks out on A-League imports

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/we-need-to-cut-the-visa-spots-back---former-socceroo-speaks-out-on-a-league-imports-549967



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Inside Sport Bot - 2 Jul 2020 11:17 AM
'We need to cut the visa spots back' - Former Socceroo speaks out on A-League imports

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/we-need-to-cut-the-visa-spots-back---former-socceroo-speaks-out-on-a-league-imports-549967



I agree the overall depth of foreigners is not good enough to raise the standard of the A league high enough to counter the detrimental effect this has on our best young Australian players chance to further develop in the A league and  the five allocated foreign Visa spots combined with not having a reserve grade, a decent youth league and or a second division for the younger players to get decent game time and develop leaves our young Australian players with nowhere near enough adequate development opportunities. 
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agreed, 3 is enough.


Love Football

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The only thing this would drive is wage inflation in Australian footballers protected from competition. 

It’s time Aussie players hardened the fuck up and competed for their places instead of having them handed to them on a protected platter. 

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Waz - 2 Jul 2020 12:50 PM
The only thing this would drive is wage inflation in Australian footballers protected from competition. 

It’s time Aussie players hardened the fuck up and competed for their places instead of having them handed to them on a protected platter. 

I don’t see it as being handed anything on a protected platter, as the balance isn’t quite right yet.

Some managers have tended to show that they have gone for the easy way out and choose an experienced visa player, which they then refuse to drop even if they underperform. 

There will likely need to be a considerable change in salary cap moving forward, and adjusting the limits on visa spots down to 3+1 (AFC visa player) as a transitional step. That would then have to be re-evaluated at certain intervals, in line with player development guidelines that will need to be assessed to ensure all clubs are meeting goals that would need to be set for youth players.





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Heart_fan - 2 Jul 2020 1:05 PM
Waz - 2 Jul 2020 12:50 PM

I don’t see it as being handed anything on a protected platter, as the balance isn’t quite right yet.

Some managers have tended to show that they have gone for the easy way out and choose an experienced visa player, which they then refuse to drop even if they underperform. 

There will likely need to be a considerable change in salary cap moving forward, and adjusting the limits on visa spots down to 3+1 (AFC visa player) as a transitional step. That would then have to be re-evaluated at certain intervals, in line with player development guidelines that will need to be assessed to ensure all clubs are meeting goals that would need to be set for youth players.





There is a myth that it is the A-League that is holding back young Australian player development, and a Trump sort of logic that it’s “the foreign players taking our spots” that’s to blame. Sounds right, but I don’t think it is. 

Youth development occurs not in the A-League but in the early teenage years through to about 19, beyond that you’re really polishing what’s already there - at this point (19) they’re typically good enough of they’re not. All the A-League gives them is experience. 

Young Australian players are getting about 18 competitive games a year, often with interchange so they rarely play a full game. That’s less than half of the recommended number of games for youth players which is 40+ which is what foreign youth players are getting (some get 50 games a season!). 

This lack of games is a big part of the problem and we don’t seem to be able to address it with cost being cited as the reason. And I’m not talking about Y-League here I’m talking about U18, U16, U15 competitions. 

All reducing visa players will do is lower the quality of the A League which in turn will lower the development of young players who are getting picked - the so called cure will only make things worse. 

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Waz - 2 Jul 2020 2:16 PM
Heart_fan - 2 Jul 2020 1:05 PM

There is a myth that it is the A-League that is holding back young Australian player development, and a Trump sort of logic that it’s “the foreign players taking our spots” that’s to blame. Sounds right, but I don’t think it is. 

Youth development occurs not in the A-League but in the early teenage years through to about 19, beyond that you’re really polishing what’s already there - at this point (19) they’re typically good enough of they’re not. All the A-League gives them is experience. 

Young Australian players are getting about 18 competitive games a year, often with interchange so they rarely play a full game. That’s less than half of the recommended number of games for youth players which is 40+ which is what foreign youth players are getting (some get 50 games a season!). 

This lack of games is a big part of the problem and we don’t seem to be able to address it with cost being cited as the reason. And I’m not talking about Y-League here I’m talking about U18, U16, U15 competitions. 

All reducing visa players will do is lower the quality of the A League which in turn will lower the development of young players who are getting picked - the so called cure will only make things worse. 

Spot on. 
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I can see the argument for 3 foreign spots.  The fourth and fifth import at a lot of clubs aren't that good.  
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aok - 2 Jul 2020 2:36 PM
I can see the argument for 3 foreign spots.  The fourth and fifth import at a lot of clubs aren't that good.  

It's a bit of the chicken and egg metaphor. Will changing the foreign spots be the answer or changing the salary cap so that  more can be spent on the fourth and fifth player that currently isn't very good? 
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Teams don’t have to have any visa players.

Restrictions will most likely mean older players have extended careers.
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Can't get true opportunity unless there are more teams, should of been up to 14 going on 16 teams by now. Politics have cruelled football in Australia!
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3 visa platers is enough, clubs should be by this stage in the A League be developing players from their own academy’s to move into first team football.
and it can be done , look at Roar where we have DWH , JCP, Akbari Jacob Powell and Riorden .
there is 5 U23 players that have played first team football this year that should get more game time next year ,
hopefully JCP will make the left CB role his With competition from Riorden
Jacob Powell to LB 
Akbari midfield 
and how good is it when DWH is getting on the score sheet .

The A League is a development league and clubs should be doing just that , develop and sell .

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soccerfoo - 2 Jul 2020 11:20 PM
Can't get true opportunity unless there are more teams, should of been up to 14 going on 16 teams by now. Politics have cruelled football in Australia!

you cant get an opportunity when pensioners are preferred due to their "low risk"









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Eh, with the gradual shift towards a winter season (which is more in line with the AFC) then we should perhaps follow their lead and run with 3 + 1
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walnuts - 3 Jul 2020 9:23 AM
Eh, with the gradual shift towards a winter season (which is more in line with the AFC) then we should perhaps follow their lead and run with 3 + 1

Winter season ? Its still starting in summer . Also its for next season only? Due to the pandemic 
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Footballfirst - 2 Jul 2020 12:00 PM
Inside Sport Bot - 2 Jul 2020 11:17 AM

I agree the overall depth of foreigners is not good enough to raise the standard of the A league high enough to counter the detrimental effect this has on our best young Australian players chance to further develop in the A league and  the five allocated foreign Visa spots combined with not having a reserve grade, a decent youth league and or a second division for the younger players to get decent game time and develop leaves our young Australian players with nowhere near enough adequate development opportunities. 


The top teams though have five good foreigners from top European leagues who add value and help mentor and develop youth. If you look at the Phoenix for instance you've got players from the Premier League, Eredivisie, Bundesliga, Championship, etc.

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Those visa players (should in theory) increase the quality of the league though and ensure the local players who do make teams/squads are lifted to a higher level. The solution is more teams rather than less visa players as we could have the same amount of locals with more quality imports, rather than simply making more local spots by reducing imports.
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I can see that people would think having too many foreign players is bad for upcoming youth .
However when I was 16 and just starting in seniors ( way back in the 1970's ) most clubs had a lot of foreign players .
Scots ,English,Serbs,Croation,Italian,Argentinian etc etc .
I am so glad I got to play with these guys as playing and training with them teaches you so much .
it was not just their skills but their attitudes and experiences that helped .
They came from a harder, tougher game .
So my attitude is yes having foreign players and coaches is a great idea as they bring foreign styles of play and thinking into our game.

I agree completely with Waz that young Aussie players are more hindered by lack of games and coaching in the teen years before they reach the A-League .
If they are good enough by the time they reach A-League they will make it whether they are fighting for positions against Aussies or Foreigners .
Maybe the Academy idea will start to bear fruit soon but it needs these kids to be playing far more games .

In my teens I played around 20 club games , 10 Rep games,and 10 school games a season on average. ie 40 or so all up .
Obviously I also trained at night for those various teams.
,,,but to me the big advantage was I got home from school and was kicking a ball against a wall trapping ,dribbling ,shooting etc every afternoon for hours .
I literally had a ball at my feet most days of the year ...summer and winter.

Kids get home now, sit on the lounge and play FIFA.
This is modern footballs biggest problem and I don't know how you get around it .
You can't substitute simply having that ball at your feet all the time .


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miron mercedes - 3 Jul 2020 10:28 AM
I can see that people would think having too many foreign players is bad for upcoming youth .
However when I was 16 and just starting in seniors ( way back in the 1970's ) most clubs had a lot of foreign players .
Scots ,English,Serbs,Croation,Italian,Argentinian etc etc .
I am so glad I got to play with these guys as playing and training with them teaches you so much .
it was not just their skills but their attitudes and experiences that helped .
They came from a harder, tougher game .
So my attitude is yes having foreign players and coaches is a great idea as they bring foreign styles of play and thinking into our game.

I agree completely with Waz that young Aussie players are more hindered by lack of games and coaching in the teen years before they reach the A-League .
If they are good enough by the time they reach A-League they will make it whether they are fighting for positions against Aussies or Foreigners .
Maybe the Academy idea will start to bear fruit soon but it needs these kids to be playing far more games .

In my teens I played around 20 club games , 10 Rep games,and 10 school games a season on average. ie 40 or so all up .
Obviously I also trained at night for those various teams.
,,,but to me the big advantage was I got home from school and was kicking a ball against a wall trapping ,dribbling ,shooting etc every afternoon for hours .
I literally had a ball at my feet most days of the year ...summer and winter.

Kids get home now, sit on the lounge and play FIFA.
This is modern footballs biggest problem and I don't know how you get around it .
You can't substitute simply having that ball at your feet all the time .




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tsf - 3 Jul 2020 10:38 AM
miron mercedes - 3 Jul 2020 10:28 AM



I do not know why I accidently selected that quote. Anyway....all I have to add is:

Should European teams do the same and stop young aussies from going there? 

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miron mercedes - 3 Jul 2020 10:28 AM
I can see that people would think having too many foreign players is bad for upcoming youth .
However when I was 16 and just starting in seniors ( way back in the 1970's ) most clubs had a lot of foreign players .
Scots ,English,Serbs,Croation,Italian,Argentinian etc etc .
I am so glad I got to play with these guys as playing and training with them teaches you so much .
it was not just their skills but their attitudes and experiences that helped .
They came from a harder, tougher game .
So my attitude is yes having foreign players and coaches is a great idea as they bring foreign styles of play and thinking into our game.

I agree completely with Waz that young Aussie players are more hindered by lack of games and coaching in the teen years before they reach the A-League .
If they are good enough by the time they reach A-League they will make it whether they are fighting for positions against Aussies or Foreigners .
Maybe the Academy idea will start to bear fruit soon but it needs these kids to be playing far more games .

In my teens I played around 20 club games , 10 Rep games,and 10 school games a season on average. ie 40 or so all up .
Obviously I also trained at night for those various teams.
,,,but to me the big advantage was I got home from school and was kicking a ball against a wall trapping ,dribbling ,shooting etc every afternoon for hours .
I literally had a ball at my feet most days of the year ...summer and winter.

Kids get home now, sit on the lounge and play FIFA.
This is modern footballs biggest problem and I don't know how you get around it .
You can't substitute simply having that ball at your feet all the time .


I always feel going forward the FFA and main stakeholders the state feds and clubs need to seriously tackle the player pathways but also the envionment especially the amount of games they play per season.

20 to 25 games isn't enough, needs to be 35-40 games from u13 to u21 minimum.

And what Drew Sherman said, we need to stop thinking about the past as this makes no sense in the current day where society has changed ALOT.
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n i k o - 2 Jul 2020 3:02 PM
aok - 2 Jul 2020 2:36 PM

It's a bit of the chicken and egg metaphor. Will changing the foreign spots be the answer or changing the salary cap so that  more can be spent on the fourth and fifth player that currently isn't very good? 

I see what you're saying.  I would like to see the cap and the floor removed.  But even if they are, I think most local clubs will be cutting back on salaries due to all the uncertainly surrounding the economy (not to mention the reduced TV deal).  So maybe even less money for a fourth or fifth spot (maybe with the exception of City, Victory and Sydney)?)
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100% agree. We will only have 14 to 16 pro teams. They must be stacked with aussies! Visa players are taking all the attacking spots, that's why we can't develop forwards anymore!
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Jegga7698 - 3 Jul 2020 11:47 AM
100% agree. We will only have 14 to 16 pro teams. They must be stacked with aussies! Visa players are taking all the attacking spots, that's why we can't develop forwards anymore!
You don’t develop forwards in the A-League, you develop forwards before then. 

The NC has about three lines on developing Strikers which basically says “... and talented players will finish off the good work”

The shortage of strikers is caused by us developing genetic forwards who can play “anywhere across the front three” and are easily interchangeable with the midfield. 

But yeah, let’s blame the foreigners ... 


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Waz - 3 Jul 2020 11:59 AM
Jegga7698 - 3 Jul 2020 11:47 AM
You don’t develop forwards in the A-League, you develop forwards before then. 

The NC has about three lines on developing Strikers which basically says “... and talented players will finish off the good work”

The shortage of strikers is caused by us developing genetic forwards who can play “anywhere across the front three” and are easily interchangeable with the midfield. 

But yeah, let’s blame the foreigners ... 


You would think the 4-3-3 would help develop forwards and attackers given the structure and interchangeable aspect to the formation not hinder it.
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Waz - 3 Jul 2020 11:59 AM
Jegga7698 - 3 Jul 2020 11:47 AM
You don’t develop forwards in the A-League, you develop forwards before then. 

The NC has about three lines on developing Strikers which basically says “... and talented players will finish off the good work”

The shortage of strikers is caused by us developing genetic forwards who can play “anywhere across the front three” and are easily interchangeable with the midfield. 

But yeah, let’s blame the foreigners ... 


I understand the need for better development (people have been talking about this for years).

But game time at a professional level is hugely important to a players development.

Too many coaches are taking the less risky road of importing attackers rather than giving young aussies pro playing time. (I don't blame them, they are only trying to keep their jobs).

People do things out if necessity. Take away visa spots and coaches will be forced to give young aus attackers game time.
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Barca4Life - 3 Jul 2020 12:23 PM
Waz - 3 Jul 2020 11:59 AM

You would think the 4-3-3 would help develop forwards and attackers given the structure and interchangeable aspect to the formation not hinder it.

When it comes to strikers, Greed is good.
Look around the world at the top leagues and nations and the individual brilliance and hunger that exist in most top strikers.

We are coaching our youngsters to pass not shoot, not dribble, not be greedy. Our coaching is all about teamwork and tactics, with the individual skill work focussed on passing, but so little work on beating a man one on one with a dribble.

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Jegga7698 - 3 Jul 2020 12:27 PM
Waz - 3 Jul 2020 11:59 AM

I understand the need for better development (people have been talking about this for years).

But game time at a professional level is hugely important to a players development.

Too many coaches are taking the less risky road of importing attackers rather than giving young aussies pro playing time. (I don't blame them, they are only trying to keep their jobs).

People do things out if necessity. Take away visa spots and coaches will be forced to give young aus attackers game time.

True. And that will reduce the quality of the A League which in turn will reduce the development of young Aussie midfielders and defenders because they’re playing against lower quality strikers. 

Do you think a player will develop more playing against Berisha and ALF or by playing against Nick D’Agestino selected to “give young Aussies a go”??? 

If they’re not good enough they shouldn’t be given a start - a poor player will not develop in the A League. 

Edited
Last Month by Waz
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Everyone agrees Im pretty sure that Australians playing overseas is the key. So when we have the opportunity to allow those here to at the very least to compete against experienced quality players from overseas we want to take that away from them? Instead why not work out ways to improve the level of visas that come in and as Waz said improve the development of youngsters prior to coming into the aleague. 
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