Contemporary Football Coach Education more advanced than other sports


Contemporary Football Coach Education more advanced than other sports

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Decentric
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One of the things that has been imparted from recent coach education in Aus though FFA, and the Dutch KNVB, is making  all training  game/match related.

The biggest change in football is that running without the ball has virtually disappeared. The only times a team  works without the ball is if a team is working on the three phases of play - Ball Possession  Opposition, Defensive Transitions  and Attacking Transitions. It is still game related though as one works on team shape without the ball.

*With other sports I see state level Auuse Rules teams  frequently running without the ball. I think it is an absolute waste of time. Instead, they could run with a ball and bounce it within every 10 metres, which is one of their key skills. Or have two players side by side running whilst handballing to each other.

* I watch a lot of high level cricket, but have little background in the game other than primary school rep level.  The Tas Tigers train near me and do a lot of long distance  running. The three actions cricket that I see that require running are:

1. Batters running 20 metres between wickets and turning at each end of the pitch.

2. Bowlers running in to bowl - pace or spin. There is a lot of timing and rhythm involved.

3. Fielders stopping a moving ball and throwing the ball to the team keeper, or training to catch a moving ball at the end of a sprint. 

if I were to coach in conjunction with an expert cricket coach, I would devise drills to run and  catch, run and stop and throw, and, run and bowl, or batters sprinting and turning. I'd never have teams  performing running drills devoid of cricket related skills like the current Tas Tigers do.

* Kickboxing/modern karate.

I used to run a club doing this at grade 11 and 12 college - HSC age 16 - 19 year olds. Conventional martial arts wisdom has all been training involving floor to ceiling balls, shadow sparring, heavy bags, focus mitts to develop speed, strength, timing, power, footwork and cardio vascular fitness that is karate specific  related.

Further skills involve slow sparring, hard sparring, karate related stretching and skipping ( the latter good for endurance, foot work and stamina). No running is required. Sometimes older clubs I trained with  advocated non -  martial arts related running for  cardio fitness.

All the time in shadow sparring and heavy bag work I'm  focused on a combination of about 20 hand, elbow and foot  sequences of 2-7 techniques in under 2 seconds.

There is also weight training  for upper and lower body, plus core strengthening exercises.

Essentially, as I've returned to modern karate even in my sixties, little needs to change. My football coaching insights, have not really enhanced my understanding of martial arts  training, like they have in team ball sports.

What have others found about extrapolating contemporary Oz football coach education methodology to other sports? 



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8 Months Ago by Decentric
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Decentric - 3 Aug 2020 9:20 AM
One of the things that has been imparted from recent coach education in Aus though FFA, and the Dutch KNVB, is making  all training  game/match related.

The biggest change in football is that running without the ball has virtually disappeared. The only times a team  works without the ball is if a team is working on the three phases of play - Ball Possession  Opposition, Defensive Transitions  and Attacking Transitions. It is still game related though as one works on team shape without the ball.

*With other sports I see state level Auuse Rules teams  frequently running without the ball. I think it is an absolute waste of time. Instead, they could run with a ball and bounce it within every 10 metres, which is one of their key skills. Or have two players side by side running whilst handballing to each other.

* I watch a lot of high level cricket, but have little background in the game other than primary school rep level.  The Tas Tigers train near me and do a lot of long distance  running. The three actions cricket that I see that require running are:

1. Batters running 20 metres between wickets and turning at each end of the pitch.

2. Bowlers running in to bowl - pace or spin. There is a lot of timing and rhythm involved.

3. Fielders stopping a moving ball and throwing the ball to the team keeper, or training to catch a moving ball at the end of a sprint. 

if I were to coach in conjunction with an expert cricket coach, I would devise drills to run and  catch, run and stop and throw, and, run and bowl, or batters sprinting and turning. I'd never have teams  performing running drills devoid of cricket related skills like the current Tas Tigers do.

* Kickboxing/modern karate.

I used to run a club doing this at grade 11 and 12 college - HSC age 16 - 19 year olds. Conventional martial arts wisdom has all been training involving floor to ceiling balls, shadow sparring, heavy bags, focus mitts to develop speed, strength, timing, power, footwork and cardio vascular fitness that is karate specific  related.

Further skills involve slow sparring, hard sparring, karate related stretching and skipping ( the latter good for endurance, foot work and stamina). No running is required. Sometimes older clubs I trained with  advocated non -  martial arts related running for  cardio fitness.

All the time in shadow sparring and heavy bag work I'm  focused on a combination of about 20 hand, elbow and foot  sequences of 2-7 techniques in under 2 seconds.

There is also weight training  for upper and lower body, plus core strengthening exercises.

Essentially, as I've returned to modern karate even in my sixties, little needs to change. My football coaching insights, have not really enhanced my understanding of martial arts  training, like they have in team ball sports.

What have others found about extrapolating contemporary Oz football coach education methodology to other sports? 



Hodwy

Last time I looked football (soccer) players often run without the ball. Ie running into position, chasing down an opposition player etc. Footballers only touch the ball for less than a minute in an entire game...

Also I see most pro teams would also do running training - mostly 2km or 3km time trials especially in the off season

This is one of those debates that also encompasses not doing individual skill training because its not game related. Ronaldo spends hours practicing on his own individual drills. 

IMO there is room for everything. I would go as far to say that team training is over rated 

Best situation per week 

3 team based trainings (1 hour each - discuss tactics)
3-4 individual skill based including strength and conditioning trainings 



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Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 3:09 PM
Decentric - 3 Aug 2020 9:20 AM

Hodwy

Last time I looked football (soccer) players often run without the ball. Ie running into position, chasing down an opposition player etc. Footballers only touch the ball for less than a minute in an entire game...

Also I see most pro teams would also do running training - mostly 2km or 3km time trials especially in the off season

This is one of those debates that also encompasses not doing individual skill training because its not game related. Ronaldo spends hours practicing on his own individual drills. 

IMO there is room for everything. I would go as far to say that team training is over rated 

Best situation per week 

3 team based trainings (1 hour each - discuss tactics)
3-4 individual skill based including strength and conditioning trainings 



 Good day, Zoltan.

The KNVB concept, and now FFA, believe all training should be done with the ball, unless one is a pro outfit  - and only occasionally.

It varies on how much ball one has depending on the position played. Usually defensive midfielders and centre backs spend most time on the ball and central forwards spend least.

All the running in training is now done with team exercises with formations in Ball Possession Opposition in types of team pressing , Full, Half and Partial, or players getting into position  to support the ball  carrier in Ball Possession. One also might do work on offside too.

What is considered superfluous, is running laps or along  the beach without the  ball. The axiom is it is considered not to be football performance game related.
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Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 3:09 PM
Decentric - 3 Aug 2020 9:20 AM



Also I see most pro teams would also do running training - mostly 2km or 3km time trials especially in the off season





Not in Holland, Germany, France , Belgium or Spain.
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Decentric - 9 Aug 2020 6:13 PM
Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 3:09 PM

Not in Holland, Germany, France , Belgium or Spain.

Could be true - all I'm saying is that it sounds like fake news. As I said footballers barely touch the ball in 90 minutes. If they touch the ball 70 times each time is for 1,2 maybe 3 seconds. So all up maybe a few minutes per game. 

95 percent of the time they run without the ball.

I can see why interval training would e very useful but I don't buy (nor do I believe) that footballers shouldn't know what they run for say 2 km or 3km time trials. 

Team tactics are the coaches domain. By the time an elite footballer reaches 18 they should be smart enough to fit into any system...

I think the team training scenario is overrated...


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Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 8:36 PM
Decentric - 9 Aug 2020 6:13 PM

Could be true - all I'm saying is that it sounds like fake news. As I said footballers barely touch the ball in 90 minutes. If they touch the ball 70 times each time is for 1,2 maybe 3 seconds. So all up maybe a few minutes per game. 




I can assure you this coaching methodology isn't fake news.

It is usually conceived through hours and hours of assiduously complied research through FIFA and /or UEFA Technical Departments.

What you say about players not touching the ball much is true though, Zoltan, particularly  central strikers. Wide players can also be excluded in  the  team game plan where their team uses the other flank in preference  in offensive build ups.
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Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 8:36 PM
Decentric - 9 Aug 2020 6:13 PM

 

Team tactics are the coaches domain. By the time an elite footballer reaches 18 they should be smart enough to fit into any system...

I think the team training scenario is overrated...


One would think so, but game plans and formations need  constant fine tuning. Many males in particular, seem hopeless at absorbing information, even from ages 14 to adult. To work well in match scenarios formations  need constant work. Sometimes one has to isolate the defensive, midfield or attacking lines of any   formation  to fine tune them.

Females on average tend to have more game sense and are far better at assimilating game plans. Female players tend to learn more quickly on average - this isn't evidence based research, but anecdotally  concluded through a consensus of coaches who have coached both genders.

I'd have to admit I've never really done any work on coaching the 3-5-2 formation. I'm  very confident  coaching all the  permutations of 1-4-3-3, 4 -2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-4-2 flat or diamond shaped midfield,  3-4-3 with a flat midfield, or 3-4-3 diamond shaped midfield, but the midfield line configuration of a 3-5-2 is baffling to me.   
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Decentric - 10 Aug 2020 8:48 AM
Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 8:36 PM

One would think so, but game plans and formations need  constant fine tuning. Many males in particular, seem hopeless at absorbing information, even from ages 14 to adult. To work well in match scenarios formations  need constant work. Sometimes one has to isolate the defensive, midfield or attacking lines of any   formation  to fine tune them.

Females on average tend to have more game sense and are far better at assimilating game plans. Female players tend to learn more quickly on average - this isn't evidence based research, but anecdotally  concluded through a consensus of coaches who have coached both genders.

I'd have to admit I've never really done any work on coaching the 3-5-2 formation. I'm  very confident  coaching all the  permutations of 1-4-3-3, 4 -2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-4-2 flat or diamond shaped midfield,  3-4-3 with a flat midfield, or 3-4-3 diamond shaped midfield, but the midfield line configuration of a 3-5-2 is baffling to me.   

Some good points Decentric
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Decentric - 9 Aug 2020 6:13 PM
Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 3:09 PM

Not in Holland, Germany, France , Belgium or Spain.


Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 8:36 PM
Decentric - 9 Aug 2020 6:13 PM

Could be true - all I'm saying is that it sounds like fake news. As I said footballers barely touch the ball in 90 minutes. If they touch the ball 70 times each time is for 1,2 maybe 3 seconds. So all up maybe a few minutes per game. 

95 percent of the time they run without the ball.

I can see why interval training would e very useful but I don't buy (nor do I believe) that footballers shouldn't know what they run for say 2 km or 3km time trials. 

Team tactics are the coaches domain. By the time an elite footballer reaches 18 they should be smart enough to fit into any system...

I think the team training scenario is overrated...


Zoltan, you are correct, every team will do physical training without the ball, here is video showing Ajax training for running and acceleration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=XpM2ACzMNyY

Dont believe fake news from fake coaches.









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AJF - 12 Aug 2020 10:56 AM
Decentric - 9 Aug 2020 6:13 PM


Zoltan - 9 Aug 2020 8:36 PM

Zoltan, you are correct, every team will do physical training without the ball, here is video showing Ajax training for running and acceleration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=XpM2ACzMNyY

Dont believe fake news from fake coaches.

If you uphold this view, you certainly haven't successfully completed the FFA C Licence  you  have stated you have, Edude/Sevan.

The KNVB and FFA message is that only with senior professional teams on rare occasions is non-game related running with the ball prudent. The rest of the time game sense, tactical development, technique and football conditioning  should all be game related according to the two national methodologies.
Edited
8 Months Ago by Decentric
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Decentric - 13 Aug 2020 10:47 PM
AJF - 12 Aug 2020 10:56 AM

If you uphold this view, you certainly haven't successfully completed the FFA C Licence  you  have stated you have, Edude/Sevan.

The KNVB and FFA message is that only with senior professional teams on rare occasions is non-game related running with the ball prudent. The rest of the time game sense, tactical development, technique and football conditioning  should all be game related according to the two national methodologies.

So the video of Ajax youth doing pure running and physical strengthening is an elaborate fake set up by the Footballanarchy Illuminati to try discredit you.

People may ask why, obviously it’s because the knowledge you gained during your Tasmanian KNVB training (where you got a participation certificate and a gold star sticker) is superior to everyone else and a threat to the great unedumacated coaches in Aus who are trying to stop the implementation of the superior KNVB/FFA NC.

Jog on sunshine, you are embarrassing yourself.