One of the things that has been imparted from recent coach education in Aus though FFA, and the Dutch KNVB, is making  all training  game/match related.

The biggest change in football is that running without the ball has virtually disappeared. The only times a team  works without the ball is if a team is working on the three phases of play - Ball Possession  Opposition, Defensive Transitions  and Attacking Transitions. It is still game related though as one works on team shape without the ball.

*With other sports I see state level Auuse Rules teams  frequently running without the ball. I think it is an absolute waste of time. Instead, they could run with a ball and bounce it within every 10 metres, which is one of their key skills. Or have two players side by side running whilst handballing to each other.

* I watch a lot of high level cricket, but have little background in the game other than primary school rep level.  The Tas Tigers train near me and do a lot of long distance  running. The three actions cricket that I see that require running are:

1. Batters running 20 metres between wickets and turning at each end of the pitch.

2. Bowlers running in to bowl - pace or spin. There is a lot of timing and rhythm involved.

3. Fielders stopping a moving ball and throwing the ball to the team keeper, or training to catch a moving ball at the end of a sprint. 

if I were to coach in conjunction with an expert cricket coach, I would devise drills to run and  catch, run and stop and throw, and, run and bowl, or batters sprinting and turning. I'd never have teams  performing running drills devoid of cricket related skills like the current Tas Tigers do.

* Kickboxing/modern karate.

I used to run a club doing this at grade 11 and 12 college - HSC age 16 - 19 year olds. Conventional martial arts wisdom has all been training involving floor to ceiling balls, shadow sparring, heavy bags, focus mitts to develop speed, strength, timing, power, footwork and cardio vascular fitness that is karate specific  related.

Further skills involve slow sparring, hard sparring, karate related stretching and skipping ( the latter good for endurance, foot work and stamina). No running is required. Sometimes older clubs I trained with  advocated non -  martial arts related running for  cardio fitness.

All the time in shadow sparring and heavy bag work I'm  focused on a combination of about 20 hand, elbow and foot  sequences of 2-7 techniques in under 2 seconds.

There is also weight training  for upper and lower body, plus core strengthening exercises.

Essentially, as I've returned to modern karate even in my sixties, little needs to change. My football coaching insights, have not really enhanced my understanding of martial arts  training, like they have in team ball sports.

What have others found about extrapolating contemporary Oz football coach education methodology to other sports? 

Hodwy

Last time I looked football (soccer) players often run without the ball. Ie running into position, chasing down an opposition player etc. Footballers only touch the ball for less than a minute in an entire game...

Also I see most pro teams would also do running training - mostly 2km or 3km time trials especially in the off season

This is one of those debates that also encompasses not doing individual skill training because its not game related. Ronaldo spends hours practicing on his own individual drills. 

IMO there is room for everything. I would go as far to say that team training is over rated 

Best situation per week 

3 team based trainings (1 hour each - discuss tactics)
3-4 individual skill based including strength and conditioning trainings 

 Good day, Zoltan.

The KNVB concept, and now FFA, believe all training should be done with the ball, unless one is a pro outfit  - and only occasionally.

It varies on how much ball one has depending on the position played. Usually defensive midfielders and centre backs spend most time on the ball and central forwards spend least.

All the running in training is now done with team exercises with formations in Ball Possession Opposition in types of team pressing , Full, Half and Partial, or players getting into position  to support the ball  carrier in Ball Possession. One also might do work on offside too.

What is considered superfluous, is running laps or along  the beach without the  ball. The axiom is it is considered not to be football performance game related.

Not in Holland, Germany, France , Belgium or Spain.

Could be true - all I'm saying is that it sounds like fake news. As I said footballers barely touch the ball in 90 minutes. If they touch the ball 70 times each time is for 1,2 maybe 3 seconds. So all up maybe a few minutes per game. 

95 percent of the time they run without the ball.

I can see why interval training would e very useful but I don't buy (nor do I believe) that footballers shouldn't know what they run for say 2 km or 3km time trials. 

Team tactics are the coaches domain. By the time an elite footballer reaches 18 they should be smart enough to fit into any system...

I think the team training scenario is overrated...

I can assure you this coaching methodology isn't fake news.

It is usually conceived through hours and hours of assiduously complied research through FIFA and /or UEFA Technical Departments.

What you say about players not touching the ball much is true though, Zoltan, particularly  central strikers. Wide players can also be excluded in  the  team game plan where their team uses the other flank in preference  in offensive build ups.

One would think so, but game plans and formations need  constant fine tuning. Many males in particular, seem hopeless at absorbing information, even from ages 14 to adult. To work well in match scenarios formations  need constant work. Sometimes one has to isolate the defensive, midfield or attacking lines of any   formation  to fine tune them.

Females on average tend to have more game sense and are far better at assimilating game plans. Female players tend to learn more quickly on average - this isn't evidence based research, but anecdotally  concluded through a consensus of coaches who have coached both genders.

I'd have to admit I've never really done any work on coaching the 3-5-2 formation. I'm  very confident  coaching all the  permutations of 1-4-3-3, 4 -2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-4-2 flat or diamond shaped midfield,  3-4-3 with a flat midfield, or 3-4-3 diamond shaped midfield, but the midfield line configuration of a 3-5-2 is baffling to me.   

Some good points Decentric

Zoltan, you are correct, every team will do physical training without the ball, here is video showing Ajax training for running and acceleration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=XpM2ACzMNyY

Dont believe fake news from fake coaches.

If you uphold this view, you certainly haven't successfully completed the FFA C Licence  you  have stated you have, Edude/Sevan.

The KNVB and FFA message is that only with senior professional teams on rare occasions is non-game related running with the ball prudent. The rest of the time game sense, tactical development, technique and football conditioning  should all be game related according to the two national methodologies.

So the video of Ajax youth doing pure running and physical strengthening is an elaborate fake set up by the Footballanarchy Illuminati to try discredit you.

People may ask why, obviously it’s because the knowledge you gained during your Tasmanian KNVB training (where you got a participation certificate and a gold star sticker) is superior to everyone else and a threat to the great unedumacated coaches in Aus who are trying to stop the implementation of the superior KNVB/FFA NC.

Jog on sunshine, you are embarrassing yourself.

Hope your sitting down you phony, because here is a video of Ajax U10's doing physical development training, including pushups/planks at the Ajax Amsterdam Academy Fitness Training Field. Also note what the other kids are doing in the back ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1uJjWy5pmg

Here is a pic of the fitness field which they recently added.





Description of the field is " the complex is a small field dedicated to speed, agility and alternate training methods. A 300 meter running track surrounds an incline running hill equipped with both smooth track and stair steps for sprint training, courts for soccer volleyball, basketball hoops and a gridded 42 x 24 yard mini-soccer court."

Explain how this fits in with your BS KNVB/FFA theory?

You are a fraud and have negative credibility, that KNVB participation certificate you got isnt even useful during a toilet paper shortage in lockdown.

Credit to you for taking the time to thoroughly dismantle idiot decentric and his 157 multis.

His cut and paste soccer knowledge and his KNVB certificate of participation still puts him below the average soccer mum.

If  it is indeed a model from the KNVB, there would still be a massive amount of technical training for that age group, Sevan/Edude. 

It certainly wasn't the case in 2008, when the KNVB were in Aus training A League coaches. In  front of FFA Tech Dir Rob Baan, Arie Schans and Ad Derkson enunciated the KNVB position. Baan brought  here to train HAL coaches - Muscat, Popovic, Veart, Corica, Aloisi, Moss, etc.

A physio attended both courses.  I did the community one  - same content.

Wow, you and Edude/Sevan are angry little fellows, Chips.

What happened to your multi, Judy Free?

The reason we've got so many young technically adept young players  in the HAL ATM, is the long term result of FFA's Skills Acquisition Program being implemented.

I'm surprised you and Edude/Sevan have reconciled after your competing right wing football forums, No Holds Barred Forum and Anarchy Football seem to have disappeared after  virtually everybody left them.

What do you think about Edude's claim he has a FFA C Licence?    

I'd get more value discussing football methodology with an Uber driver.

Fake, fraud, unhinged and dishonest. Same applies to your other 157 multis. 

I see you cant explain why Ajax has a specific Fitness Traing field with running track and 10YO's are doing pushups at training?

So despite all the grand statements about your superior KNVB quallifications, you now acknowledge you were wrong about KNVB not doing any training without the ball?

Also Schans was unemployed in 2008 when you did your course and according to his really underwhelming profile on Transfermarkt he never coached for the KNVB.
 
https://www.transfermarkt.com/arie-schans/stationen/trainer/5690/plus/1

Ad Derkson doesnt even have a coaching profile and is currently cashing in teaching KNVB in the Caribbean.

You keep preaching self righteous BS about your advanced KNVB training yet you did the course below which was a 4 day basic course with no formal recognition or qualification, but at least you got to participate in a "spectacular 4v4 tournament on the last day", I am sure your team won naturally as Muscat, Popovic and Aloisi would want to be on your side.



You have been exposed you fraud and you actually have less coaching credibility than the gum stuck on the soccer mums shoe.

One had to have a current FFA Youth Licence to undertake the KNVB course, Edude/Sevan. 

The same course was run for the A league youth coaches the previous week - the likes of Corica, Veart, Popovic, Muscat, Aloisi, Tobin.

The content was Current B and C Licence at that time. 

The C Licence I did a few years later, which took about 16 days of many weekends over summer, was similar in some ways. It went into depth in other ways that the KNVB Youth Course  didn't, but the C Licence did not delve into  some of the aspects of the KNVB Youth course which must have been B  Licence content.

The KNVB course took 7-8 days.  FFA TD Rob Baan was  present every day.  Baan wasn't accredited to take the KNVB course so Derkson and Schans had to be flown out from Holland by FFA.

 Derkson and Schans wore the KNVB tracksuits and presented KNVB course books for the 7-8 days. Any time I contacted Schans afterwards, he was all over the  world delivering similar courses for the KNVB. Kelly Cross introduced the course and gave the closing  speech.

-Common course content between the  KNVB Adcanced Youth Course and the FFA C Licence. At that time the Van Gaal school of KNVB thought was used, not Cruyff.

* Four main moments - Ball Possession, Defensive Transition, Ball Possession Opposition, Attacking Transition.

* Four stage training ground module for a coaching session.

* Match analysis  proforma - all training ground sessions  should be devised from  an analysis of the last game - Who, when, why, where, what, how? There were also game related A4  proformas -  which were similar.

* Advocation of the 1-4-3-3 defensive midfield triangle as a mandated  formation  for youth development - same as in Spain, France and Holland. Germany preferred 4-2-3-1, with the forwards of the 1-4-3-3 playing in a line with the number 10 at youth level .
The  theory advanced  was that if a team can play the variations of 1-4-3-3, or a coach can coach them, they can adapt  to other systems. Personally, I'm confident with a 3-5-2 with a flat midfield line, but not the midfield triangle variation  for the 3-5-2. I'm confident coaching any other formation in 4-4-2, 3-4-3, 4-5-1, 5-4-1, 4-3-2-1, etc.    

You were not there at the KNVB Youth certificate, Edude/Sevan. I understand your Dad is a coach who has wanted work in  football and has resented FFA. It would be sad if you have been inculcated in a hostile attitude towards one of the great coaching methodologies in the world in the KNVB. Like most  national curricula, KNVB has been revamped recently after Holland failed to qualify for the last WC. Ed Ten Cate oversaw the review.

Regarding fraud, how can I be one, when I've done a plethora of FFA accredited courses? Plus I've held plenty of bona fide coaching roles.   If you keep calling me a fraud, I'll keep elucidating which courses I've done and who the instructors were.

Also, in between courses I've worked under the tutelage of many of the  top coaches in the  state on the training track in the FFTas hierarchy, SAP, NTC, state TD, two of them who were ostensibly assistant Aussie Under 20 coaches at the time. One who had  a stint in charge of Melb Victory women. They like to oversee what their  coaches are doing in preparation of players  for the future,  within the parameters of  a FFA holistic paradigm.

  Moreover, FFA and FFTas have organised sessions for accredited  coaches to work under A League coaches.  I've done a session  under both Ange P and Kevin Muscat, and two with Phil Moss.

Conversely, you have stated on FTBL Forum you've done a C Licence, but appear to have no   understanding  of any of the terminology. Perplexingly, you won't advance where you studied the C Licence, who your coach  course educators were, who your assessor was, or what  your topic of assessment was? 

Moreover, there are now many trained coaches who are members of  FTBL Forum. You are embarrassing yourself with your lack of knowledge,  given you have claimed to have done a C Licence. Even members of this forum who haven't undertaken FFA Advanced coaching courses, know more about  the current paradigms than you do in  the discussion you've had with them that I've seen.

Even more perplexingly, you told me you  seek American coaching practices for your supposed training sessions - which is anathema to what you would have been taught in the C Licence. There is now available a FFA resource book of suitable training ground exercises for various game related  football problems.

Fo r some inexplicable reason, you resort to the internet to advance your positions. Some sites are not always updated. As I've said before, if the KNVB are doing the physical training now, it would still accompany massive technical and tactical coach education for youth.

I learnt more in the first two hours for that KNVB course than the  4 days of old style Youth Licence and Junior Licence I had done previously under the old regime of Soccer Australia methodology.  In  coaching courses we were often told we were doing good things on the training ground when we weren't. There is no coincidence that Australia has qualified for four successive World Cups, after 32 years of failure.

We have had better tactical coaches in Australia  than prior to 2005 ( possibly apart from Terry Venables), and much better educated, even though many of the players have been developed in previous eras.

Also, it is time to move on from the old NSL/HAL dichotomy.  Recent FFA thinking has evaluated some phenomena of the old days,   such as clubs developing players like overseas,  rather than NTCs, and,  often  a strength  of the NSL was players aged 17-23 getting game time at senior level being critical for long term development.

Rather than spending hours on the internet, wasting time  to 'expose someone, so you can take it back to Anarchy Forum' and live a meaningless cyberlife with anonymous  people who you don't fraternise with face to face,   you are still young enough to undertake coach education so you can  do something useful and coach.   

No need to hang around on FTBL Forum then, Chips.

You can go back to stalking me via Facebook. I'd surmise you are still  cut and pasting my FB posts on Anarchy?  Very weird how you are obsessed with stalking someone you supposedly have so little time for.

As another FFA C Licence holder who posts on FTBL, Football Lover, has suggested to those opinionated about coaching but  don't do any, why don't you and your frenemy  Edude update your coaching qualifications, get your track suit on and get out on the training track and coach?

I think there are a few things.

No doubt Decentric is right in that other codes can certainly learn from the world game. Its hard to imagine a game more closely scrutinised by fans, players, coaches and sports scientists. We should be ahead of the game and many other sports would do well to take notice of what the top teams do.

Having said that - I have no doubt many people (probably even the top sports scientists) have rationalised that playing with the ball is the only things a player needs. I mean off course you are going to get fit playing football...

What I don't think is that anyone really believes it....

I mean how does a player work on their deficiencies if they are speed, endurance and power related? Isolated training in many areas is very useful. My understanding is that the truth is in the EPL teams are in fact moving away from the team training model and their is a heap more isolated and position specific training going on. Players are increasingly having private coaches (Or one on one sessions with club coaches) so that they can work on their specific needs. 

Do you think a winger needs 5 sessions playing 6 a side? I would prefer to see that player spend 2 sessions per week (1.5 hours each) running down the wing and crossing the ball. There is amazing footage of Arjen Robben doing this exact thing. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDiUpCnUZzQ

This is also why everyone now talks about 'deep practice' and producing myelin in your brain circuits so that movements become second nature. There is no such thing as muscle memory - its brain memory. 

So the format should be 1. isolated skill practice 2. Start including that skill into 6 a side games and 3 graduate to using the skill in games. 

Playing as a team is still super important and should be 3 trainings per week. However if you cannot execute the skills then it won't work...

++

This argument is a bit like the teaching profession - every few years some genius says that everything that happened before is wrong and this is the best new way. And guess what - it is - for a few years anyway then something else happens to prove it wrong. 

Good post, Zoltan, with many good points made.

Are you a teacher too?

Not by profession but we are all teachers...

Fair comment.

Those individuals who are skilful with the ball,  read play well, but lack athleticism, mobility and stamina  may need to work harder on things that others don't need.

A top FFA coach once said players can improve by 20% if they do a lot of it and maintain it - sprinting ( can still be done with a ball), distance running ( still can be done with a ball) and and agility exercises (which may need to be done without  a ball).

Nick Carle was like this.     

The wingers probably need to do both.

The problem with that method is there is no benchmark....how do you know if you are improving. It also means that you don't do specific running training (quads etc)...


Also this runs contrary to the new idea - what are your worlds class at? Then keep working on it! in other words working on the things you already great at may in fact have a greater impact. 

You are a fraud and you just keep on slipping up.

In 2008 Muscat was playing for Victory and went straight to senior assistant (not youth), Corica was playing for SFC and didnt start coaching youth until 2010, Aloisi was also playing for SFC and didnt start coaching youth until 2011 and Popovic just finished playing with SFC and started as an assistant with the seniors straight after.

You must be a real slow learner if it took you 8 days to do the 4 day course!

Edude/Sevan have given you so really good stick on FA, but like the bulk of your coaching advice, you are wrong and that aint me!

Here's a timely reminder and insight into your capabilities, jogo bonito.
http://www.footballbitters.com/forum/the-downward-spiral-of-decentric-t38587-300.html
Your admission to owning this multi can be found on page 35 of same thread.
You ranted for 14 pages about cocks, arse fucking, pedophelia, bestiality, buffalo semen, your love of KNVB and then the final admission that you owned the multi.
Sick sick bastard.

Nick Carle came from futsal. 

i liked the video , 8% of game going backwards , havent seen too much of that in a training session

All wrong.

I'm not sure whether you are trolling or not, but all HAL coaches I mentioned who were at the KNVB course prior to the plebs, were anointed as youth coaches of the future.

You weren't there at the KNVB course, Sevan/Edude. 

If you ever meet any of Papas ( plebs course with me), Muscat, Popa, Veart, Corica, Tobin, ask them about the KNVB course they attended in August 2008.