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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. “The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide. Ukraine is not Russian territory, therefore it is not Russia's front porch. It is the house next door. The house next door is allowed to do what it wants within its own property.
Ukraine actually not allowed to do what it wants. .Neither was Cuba, remember.
And in terms of the time it takes for NATO offensives and surveillance to reach the USSR, Ukraine is on their front porch
Spend 7 minutes of your time and watch Putin's interview. Assuming of course you want to actually know abut the other side as opposed to what CNN, MSNBC et all want you to know
Its clears as dog's balls now about why the US and NATO have been so invested in a shit hole like Ukraine most of them had never heard of. Democracy my arse. They want to set up NATO military complexes there and of course Putin won't allow that.
So now you're saying that Ukraine can't decide on its own foreign policy because of events 60 years ago, when USSR (i.e. Russia) decided to ally with Cuba at the time and has nothing to do with the current situation. I also like how you're calling Russia the USSR again. Guess Putin is putting the old band back together. I've seen Putin's recent interview/speech on this (at least the translation since he did it in Russian), and I appreciate his concerns with NATO, but to launch a full scale invasion of Ukraine seems to be a step too far. For what it's worth, I'm actually not following CNN and MSNBC on this. I've reading ABC, BBC and Foxnews. Also generally sceptical of reports on the ground since there is too much propaganda and misinformation flying around. I also don't think anyone is using "spread democracy" as an excuse for this one. Russia invaded another sovereign nation, and people don't like that. Pretty straight forward. [/quote] sigh "USSR" when referring to the Cuban missile crisis. The West was warned for years against Ukraine gaining NATO membership. Russia might not like it if Ukraine got NATO membership, but does that allow it to invade Ukraine?
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 [/quote]So what? Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile. The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different.. Who here would say that was good and that the US don't have blood on their hands 100 times over. But Jesus talk about nor learning from history if that's your argument against it happening now. It's actually a genuinely dumb thing to say.
Its the EXACT same thing. The concerns behind the current actions from Russia are EXACTLY the same thing as what the US did in Cuba.
As for the learning from the past. 100% spot on. Why didn't the West learn from it?
I agree. So what exactly is your point? Burzur said: Ukraine should be entitled to self determination You said: what like US let Cuba? I said: It was wrong then and its wrong now. Why would you say because the USA did it 70 years ago Russia should be ok to do it now? - Surely we should try to not repeat mistakes of the past. You say:............? [/quote]Jesus H Christ. The USSR backed off in Cuba. The West did not in Ukraine. USSR and Cuba are perfectly entitled to continue/pursue whatever relationship they want. Ukraine is perfectly entitled to continue/pursue whatever relationship it wants with Europe. If Russia wants to stop this by force, then they're only reinforcing that connection.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Ukraine is not Russian territory, therefore it is not Russia's front porch. It is the house next door. The house next door is allowed to do what it wants within its own property. Ukraine actually not allowed to do what it wants. .Neither was Cuba, remember. And in terms of the time it takes for NATO offensives and surveillance to reach the USSR, Ukraine is on their front porch Spend 7 minutes of your time and watch Putin's interview. Assuming of course you want to actually know abut the other side as opposed to what CNN, MSNBC et all want you to know Its clears as dog's balls now about why the US and NATO have been so invested in a shit hole like Ukraine most of them had never heard of. Democracy my arse. They want to set up NATO military complexes there and of course Putin won't allow that. [/quote]So now you're saying that Ukraine can't decide on its own foreign policy because of events 60 years ago, when USSR (i.e. Russia) decided to ally with Cuba at the time and has nothing to do with the current situation. I also like how you're calling Russia the USSR again. Guess Putin is putting the old band back together. I've seen Putin's recent interview/speech on this (at least the translation since he did it in Russian), and I appreciate his concerns with NATO, but to launch a full scale invasion of Ukraine seems to be a step too far. For what it's worth, I'm actually not following CNN and MSNBC on this. I've reading ABC, BBC and Foxnews. Also generally sceptical of reports on the ground since there is too much propaganda and misinformation flying around. I also don't think anyone is using "spread democracy" as an excuse for this one. Russia invaded another sovereign nation, and people don't like that. Pretty straight forward. sigh "USSR" when referring to the Cuban missile crisis. The West was warned for years against Ukraine gaining NATO membership.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. There were huge protests in Sydney against Gulf War I & II . Too young to remember GWI, but I thought it was more justified back then with a UN mandate and to protect Kuwait. The "democracy" of Kuwait, what a laugh that was for GwI And the second was one of the biggest lies ever for GwII for the so called "WMD's" , how many people died for that & died for the partition & divvying up of the oil & the spawning of ISIS. In this Ukraine case however, Putin is just a fucking idiot, he's misread the room & this will be his Afghanistan like humiliation. True. Oil is basically the real answer for GWI and GWII when it comes to Western intervention. But for GWI, Iraq invaded Kuwait and there was at least a mandate from the UN. No evidence of WMDs after the fact for GWII, so that was just a pack of lies. Can't say that for Ukraine.
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ErogenousZone
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.6K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. There were huge protests in Sydney against Gulf War I & II . Too young to remember GWI, but I thought it was more justified back then with a UN mandate and to protect Kuwait. The "democracy" of Kuwait, what a laugh that was for GwI And the second was one of the biggest lies ever for GwII for the so called "WMD's" , how many people died for that & died for the partition & divvying up of the oil & the spawning of ISIS. In this Ukraine case however, Putin is just a fucking idiot, he's misread the room & this will be his Afghanistan like humiliation.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. “The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide. [/quote]Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 So what? Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile. The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different..
Who here would say that was good and that the US don't have blood on their hands 100 times over.
But Jesus talk about nor learning from history if that's your argument against it happening now.
It's actually a genuinely dumb thing to say.
Its the EXACT same thing. The concerns behind the current actions from Russia are EXACTLY the same thing as what the US did in Cuba. As for the learning from the past. 100% spot on. Why didn't the West learn from it? [/quote]I agree. So what exactly is your point? Burzur said: Ukraine should be entitled to self determination You said: what like US let Cuba? I said: It was wrong then and its wrong now. Why would you say because the USA did it 70 years ago Russia should be ok to do it now? - Surely we should try to not repeat mistakes of the past. You say:............? Jesus H Christ. The USSR backed off in Cuba. The West did not in Ukraine.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. Yes. There were plenty of dissenting voices on the left side of politics but you are correct, when push came to shove the politicians fell in lockstep with what America said as is usual. We get dragged into every stupid war America goes to because we hope that when we're in the shit they'll come and help us. (But you already knew that.) That does not take away from the fact you are looking to throw shade on the 'loony' left here for being anti-Russian but not anti-Iraq when the vast majority of the protestors on the streets protesting the invasion of Iraq were from the 'left'. Sorry Muz, in you righteous outrage you have gone off on a tangent (which is what the woke community tend to do when their sacred beliefs are challenged). Re-read what I said, I am clear that I dont support or defended Putin or any war. I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of the woke folk who condemn far right anti-mandate protestors here but are happy to hold up neo-nazis in Ukraine as national heroes defending a clearly corrupt and authoritarian Ukrainian government. Unfortunately it was you who brought Iraq into this discussion not me so need to discuss why with yourself You brought it up. AJF Wrote: The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation
Member since 2008.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. There were huge protests in Sydney against Gulf War I & II . Too young to remember GWI, but I thought it was more justified back then with a UN mandate and to protect Kuwait.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xIt's pretty funny that Cesspit has only managed to troll his own "side" with this account. Great stuff Yes. AJF can't see it yet but I did laugh. I think you guys are greatly overestimating cesspits intelligence I'm certainly not doing that. He is a C grade troll even by the standards of this forum This
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways.
And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy.
The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them.
And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that.
Bang on.
I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific.
I suspect the russian people don't even want this.
These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Ukraine is not Russian territory, therefore it is not Russia's front porch. It is the house next door. The house next door is allowed to do what it wants within its own property. [/quote]Ukraine actually not allowed to do what it wants. .Neither was Cuba, remember. And in terms of the time it takes for NATO offensives and surveillance to reach the USSR, Ukraine is on their front porch Spend 7 minutes of your time and watch Putin's interview. Assuming of course you want to actually know abut the other side as opposed to what CNN, MSNBC et all want you to know Its clears as dog's balls now about why the US and NATO have been so invested in a shit hole like Ukraine most of them had never heard of. Democracy my arse. They want to set up NATO military complexes there and of course Putin won't allow that. So now you're saying that Ukraine can't decide on its own foreign policy because of events 60 years ago, when USSR (i.e. Russia) decided to ally with Cuba at the time and has nothing to do with the current situation. I also like how you're calling Russia the USSR again. Guess Putin is putting the old band back together. I've seen Putin's recent interview/speech on this (at least the translation since he did it in Russian), and I appreciate his concerns with NATO, but to launch a full scale invasion of Ukraine seems to be a step too far. For what it's worth, I'm actually not following CNN and MSNBC on this. I've reading ABC, BBC and Foxnews. Also generally sceptical of reports on the ground since there is too much propaganda and misinformation flying around. I also don't think anyone is using "spread democracy" as an excuse for this one. Russia invaded another sovereign nation, and people don't like that. Pretty straight forward.
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ErogenousZone
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.6K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. There were huge protests in Sydney against Gulf War I & II .
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
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+x+x+xIt's pretty funny that Cesspit has only managed to troll his own "side" with this account. Great stuff Yes. AJF can't see it yet but I did laugh. I think you guys are greatly overestimating cesspits intelligence I'm certainly not doing that. He is a C grade troll even by the standards of this forum
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
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+x+xIt's pretty funny that Cesspit has only managed to troll his own "side" with this account. Great stuff Yes. AJF can't see it yet but I did laugh. I think you guys are greatly overestimating cesspits intelligence
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AJF
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K,
Visits: 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. Yes. There were plenty of dissenting voices on the left side of politics but you are correct, when push came to shove the politicians fell in lockstep with what America said as is usual. We get dragged into every stupid war America goes to because we hope that when we're in the shit they'll come and help us. (But you already knew that.) That does not take away from the fact you are looking to throw shade on the 'loony' left here for being anti-Russian but not anti-Iraq when the vast majority of the protestors on the streets protesting the invasion of Iraq were from the 'left'. Sorry Muz, in you righteous outrage you have gone off on a tangent (which is what the woke community tend to do when their sacred beliefs are challenged). Re-read what I said, I am clear that I dont support or defended Putin or any war. I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of the woke folk who condemn far right anti-mandate protestors here but are happy to hold up neo-nazis in Ukraine as national heroes defending a clearly corrupt and authoritarian Ukrainian government. Unfortunately it was you who brought Iraq into this discussion not me so need to discuss why with yourself
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways.
And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy.
The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them.
And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that.
Bang on.
I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific.
I suspect the russian people don't even want this.
These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 [/quote]So what? Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile. The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different.. I've said the US were in the wrong on many occasions. Same with Cuba.
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Burztur
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K,
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Yup. A lot of propaganda/misinformation flying around. Not sure what to believe when it comes to combat reports. Everyone should be sceptical either way. Can only really tell if there is a Russian or Ukrainian flag above each city at the start/end of each day.
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. “The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide. Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057
So what?
Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile.
The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different..
Who here would say that was good and that the US don't have blood on their hands 100 times over. But Jesus talk about nor learning from history if that's your argument against it happening now. It's actually a genuinely dumb thing to say. [/quote]Its the EXACT same thing. The concerns behind the current actions from Russia are EXACTLY the same thing as what the US did in Cuba. As for the learning from the past. 100% spot on. Why didn't the West learn from it? I agree. So what exactly is your point? Burzur said: Ukraine should be entitled to self determination You said: what like US let Cuba? I said: It was wrong then and its wrong now. Why would you say because the USA did it 70 years ago Russia should be ok to do it now? - Surely we should try to not repeat mistakes of the past. You say:............?
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cesspit
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 357,
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alt-right anti-vaxers = Pro Putin
who would've thunk it
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Ukraine is not Russian territory, therefore it is not Russia's front porch. It is the house next door. The house next door is allowed to do what it wants within its own property. Ukraine actually not allowed to do what it wants. .Neither was Cuba, remember. And in terms of the time it takes for NATO offensives and surveillance to reach the USSR, Ukraine is on their front porch Spend 7 minutes of your time and watch Putin's interview. Assuming of course you want to actually know abut the other side as opposed to what CNN, MSNBC et all want you to know Its clears as dog's balls now about why the US and NATO have been so invested in a shit hole like Ukraine most of them had never heard of. Democracy my arse. They want to set up NATO military complexes there and of course Putin won't allow that. [/quote]And you're loving it. Not at all, But I've shifted after hearing him speak about this very issue before. Have you?
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 So what? Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile. The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different.. [/quote]Who here would say that was good and that the US don't have blood on their hands 100 times over. But Jesus talk about nor learning from history if that's your argument against it happening now. It's actually a genuinely dumb thing to say. Its the EXACT same thing. The concerns behind the current actions from Russia are EXACTLY the same thing as what the US did in Cuba. As for the learning from the past. 100% spot on. Why didn't the West learn from it?
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+xIt's pretty funny that Cesspit has only managed to troll his own "side" with this account. Great stuff Yes. AJF can't see it yet but I did laugh.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways.
And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy.
The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them.
And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that.
Bang on.
I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific.
I suspect the russian people don't even want this.
These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Ukraine is not Russian territory, therefore it is not Russia's front porch. It is the house next door. The house next door is allowed to do what it wants within its own property. [/quote]Ukraine actually not allowed to do what it wants. .Neither was Cuba, remember. And in terms of the time it takes for NATO offensives and surveillance to reach the USSR, Ukraine is on their front porch Spend 7 minutes of your time and watch Putin's interview. Assuming of course you want to actually know abut the other side as opposed to what CNN, MSNBC et all want you to know Its clears as dog's balls now about why the US and NATO have been so invested in a shit hole like Ukraine most of them had never heard of. Democracy my arse. They want to set up NATO military complexes there and of course Putin won't allow that. And you're loving it.
Member since 2008.
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
Visits: 0
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It's pretty funny that Cesspit has only managed to troll his own "side" with this account.
Great stuff
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways. And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy. The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them. And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that. Bang on. I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific. I suspect the russian people don't even want this. These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs' Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump. I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions. In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move. Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that. He had no reason to Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same. Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald. Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then. But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't. “The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.” Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump. Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything? Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement. Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that. Did they? IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory. Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it. Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert. Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide. [/quote]Ukraine is not Russian territory, therefore it is not Russia's front porch. It is the house next door. The house next door is allowed to do what it wants within its own property. Ukraine actually not allowed to do what it wants. .Neither was Cuba, remember. And in terms of the time it takes for NATO offensives and surveillance to reach the USSR, Ukraine is on their front porch Spend 7 minutes of your time and watch Putin's interview. Assuming of course you want to actually know abut the other side as opposed to what CNN, MSNBC et all want you to know Its clears as dog's balls now about why the US and NATO have been so invested in a shit hole like Ukraine most of them had never heard of. Democracy my arse. They want to set up NATO military complexes there and of course Putin won't allow that.
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Davide82
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways.
And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy.
The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them.
And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that.
Bang on.
I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific.
I suspect the russian people don't even want this.
These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 [/quote]So what? Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile. The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different.. Who here would say that was good and that the US don't have blood on their hands 100 times over. But Jesus talk about nor learning from history if that's your argument against it happening now. It's actually a genuinely dumb thing to say.
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Muz
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Not to mention it's in the desert, she's wearing a singlet and it's winter in the Ukraine. This multi account is actually on your side trying to say and do the most ridiculous things to see what increasingly stupid things we on the 'left' will agree to. You'll note that none of us 'lefties' ever engage with this flog.
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways.
And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy.
The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them.
And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that.
Bang on.
I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific.
I suspect the russian people don't even want this.
These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 [/quote]So what? So...... you're the one saying Putin doesn't want to restore the Soviet Union. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know, you don't know but he did say it was a great tragedy hence the quote and link.
Member since 2008.
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Davide82
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"attempting to provoke" fucking hell
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]+x[quote]+x[quote]REMINDER: Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine to try to dig up dirt on Joe Biden. REMINDER That's because there was dirt to be found on The Big Guy. REMINDER: Trump told EU to start paying their NATO dues. REMINDER before that: Obama told the world the US won't be the world's policeman. EU should pay for their defence. Agreed. Correct and Trump doubled down on this with numerous policy pronouncements deliberately withdrawing America even further from the world stage. You can't have it both ways.
And completely consistent with Trump's America First policy.
The Europeans believed with Trump was gone, things would be back to normal and the US would pay for their security. Jokes on them.
And you know the weird thing. Blokes like you and Rusty can't even bring yourself to say this is bad. Like what the fuck is wrong with your politics when you can't denounce something like this. I suppose Trump set the bar when he said 'there's very fine people on both sides' so there is that.
Bang on.
I have friends over there now, they are sending me videos of aircraft bombing outside their apartments, on my friends insta there is all dead people strewn across the street. So horrific.
I suspect the russian people don't even want this.
These alt right clowns acting like this is some sort of 'owning of the libs'
Is Biden partly to blame? Probably but in no way would this not have happened under Trump.
I agree 100% Biden has not helped the situation, but if Trump was in, he wouldn't even bring in sanctions.
In lots of ways it's because of trump and these weak populist leaders that has given these despots the confidence to do what they want because they've sewn so much discord in the west
It wouldnt happen under Trump because Trump would use strong rhetoric and implied if not actual miltiary force to make Russia back down. Under Trump there’s a real risk or nuclear and/or military conflict whereas under Biden and Kamala there’s just weakness, sloppy sanctions and empty threats. There’s no way Trump would allow Putin to just waltz in and watch them take Ukraine, hence why Putin waited for a weak, pathetic SJW Democrat to become President before making his move.
Why would Trump talk tough to Putin? He's never done that.
He had no reason to
Of course he needed to. According to your theory, he would need to talk tough to keep Putin in check. So now the situation is Trump has never talked tough to Putin, and Biden has done the same.
Im not sure what you mean. You need to pick your moment to talk tough, simply tough talk for the sake of it achieves nothing, Obviously the moment to talk tough to Putin was when he started his military build up along the Ukrainian border, at this point Biden was President , not Donald.
Remember when Russia put bounties on US troops in Syria? Should have stood up then.
But the bottom line for me is that we are expecting the US to police the world. Why? They shouldn't.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/remember-those-russian-bounties-dead-u-s-troops-biden-admin-n1264215
“The Biden administration made clear Thursday that the CIA has only "low to moderate confidence" in its intel on alleged Russian bounties for U.S. troops.”
Just another MSM lie to discredit Trump.
Thanks. My bottom line still stands though. Why is the US at fault? What is the US expected to do everything?
Cos Russia invaded Ukraine for threatening to join NATO, and America is the captain of NATO, so its got direct and comprehensive involvement.
Ukraine said they would back away from joining NATO. So why did Russia still invade? Also, why is Russia dictating Ukrainian foreign policy anyway. Can't spin this as America's fault. Putin ordered troops in. Simple as that.
Did they?
IF you watch that video of Putin's interview just 2 months ago he makes a very rational and compelling case that Ukraine joining NATO-as he called it the 5th wave of getting closer to Russia's borders- was akin to someone putting a bomb on your front porch
Ukraine isn't Russia's front porch. It is it's own territory.
Not saying that Russia shouldn't be concerned and it does have genuine grievances, but to invade another country on this pretext is rubbish. It's all about restoring the Russian Empire and it's glory days, and I hope it fails abysmally. Just hope that the people (both Ukrainian and Russians) don't suffer too much for it.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course Ukraine is on Russia's front porch. We already know how the US-and with that any other NATO member would react in similar circumstances through the example of Cuban crisis. NATO would be on nuclear alert.
Putin doesn't want to restore the Russian Empire. You are swallowing the western media cool aide.
Yeah so Putin never said the breakup of the Soviet Union was the great catastrophe of the 20th Century? https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057 [/quote]So what? Notice you've gone all quiet about the US bringing the world to the brink during the Cuban missile. The US tried multiple times to remove Castro. And then reached for the nukes. Same same but different.. Sure. When did I argue that wasn't the case? I didn't even know we were arguing that but Ok, throw that in the mix too. Shall we bring up Britain and France carving up the middle east?
Member since 2008.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. +x+x+x+x+x+xDont agree with Putins adventure in Ukraine nor any of the USA's recent attempts at regime change in the middle east, but many of you guys hand wringing about poor innocent Ukraine probably need to get some perspective. Also love the woke warriors who recently ranted about the far right at vax demonstrations now cheering on Ukraine who is actually full of neo-nazi's I don't doubt that Ukraine is fully of issues with corruption/fringe elements/factions, etc. But it's a nice way for Russia to unite them all. The core reasoning was the same as that used by US when invading Iraq - regime is bad needs to be changed. Can recall the world reacting same way to US invading a sovereign nation Yes and which side was screaming the loudest not to invade Iraq? That's right the despised 'lefty, woke, fucktards' that's who. And yet now it's thrown in their faces that somehow the 'woke left' want to give the US a free pass but mmm'kay Russia bad. The rewriting of history and mental gymnastics on display is unbelievable. It's the left that was against the war in Iraq, Vietnam and most other conflicts. It's your Rumsfeld, Cheney's and Bush's from the right that love a good war. Hmm, the left didnt support Iraq you say... Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to WarIn the wake of September 11th, Biden stood as a leading Democratic voice on foreign policy, chairing the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee. As President Bush attempted to sell the U.S. public on the war, Biden became one of the administration’s steadfast allies in this cause, backing claims about the supposed threat posed by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and insisting on the necessity of removing him from power. https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html
Chilcot report suggests Blair made early push for regime change in Iraq
Whitehall documents reveal that Tony Blair played a far more significant role in the US-led 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Tony Blair took the initiative in urging George W. Bush to plan for regime change in Iraq, secret UK government papers reveal.
I'm talking of your 'liberal elites'& 'lefty fucktards' that were demonstrating on the streets. (The general populace.) Would confidently say the vast majority of demonstrators and anti invade Iraq sentiment was predominantly from left leaning peoples. I already said Blair was complicit and from the left in the other thread. Pretty much all of the Labour party was in bed with Howard too. Only Bob Brown had the balls to swim against the tide. The fact is you're trying, for some reason, to make out 'the left' is wrong here but not in Iraq. You can't have it both ways. These statements are the very definition of mental gymnastics Let's see if I can dumb it down for you. The left, in general, was against the war in Iraq. Except for the lefty politicians from USA, UK and Aus (as you stated above) that the left leaning voters support and vote for. Yes. There were plenty of dissenting voices on the left side of politics but you are correct, when push came to shove the politicians fell in lockstep with what America said as is usual. We get dragged into every stupid war America goes to because we hope that when we're in the shit they'll come and help us. (But you already knew that.) That does not take away from the fact you are looking to throw shade on the 'loony' left here for being anti-Russian but not anti-Iraq when the vast majority of the protestors on the streets protesting the invasion of Iraq were from the 'left'.
Member since 2008.
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