Oh, dont misunderstand, dont want him to leave right away, although mid Jan transfer is not a big deal,for Euro league ... gives him half a season to get a few runs on the  board and a whole,pre-season with a new club to cement a starting squad spot...... Happy for him to stay at CCM just as much provided he gets a few more starts next year..... Minutes minutes minutes.......

How can they sign up to be All Stars members?  What league does the club play in? Which stadium do they play at? Who are these new fans going to support exactly?

Ahaha ...

I enjoyed the match it was a good entertainment pleasantly surprised  at how well we did ....

I know all the negatives all the plastic all why these folk don't go to the A-l....

But

I enjoyed it and some our Mariners boys did quite well....

I'm curious as to why you engaged with the Aleague to begin with???? From day ZERO it was ALWAYS a "closed off salary capped shop with teams taking it in turns winning titles, concessions, rigged draws and gimmicks"... The whole reason for its inception was to  be closed off, one city franchises, with an AFL salary cap for equality remember? That's basically what Lowy invented (or rather stole from MLS).... Can you tell me why you didn't feel, the same way back in 2005? Serious question btw , I hope you can answer. I have heard it now from a couple of former Aleague fans who thought de-ethinicization of soccer was the best thing that happened in 2005 and now pine for the "good old days" of Hellas, Juventus and Croatia...

Right. The all stars as a gimmick is something that is loved or hated. There is commentary on both sides. Some people watch it and say it was a great advertisement for our league, other say watching a dozen reps from each team being taken to by a pre-season team is an embarrassment. Its unusual for a game like this to have universal praise as a fantastic match and that the A League team played their part well. And like I said, the lowest ratings for a game like this that I can recall was about 250k, not "somewhere less than 90k"

Its like the bitter miserable sods like myself didnt even bother with the 90 minutes so they could make fun of it the next day. Its not even a curiosity any more. It just surprised me.

As I said, and a point we dont agree on, the A League was never going to be a fully functional league from day one. Houses are built brick by brick. I saw the first bricks and thought I was seeing a mansion, turned out it was just a pile of bricks

I still see a potential mansion there.

I usually detest exhibition matches but that was a cracker. I reckon in years to come, some of us will still be saying: "Fucking hell! Remember that night Garang Kuol came on against Barca? And now he's their captain!"

Therein is the problem with your blinkered view of all things A League. You mentioned the game as a pre-season team and clearly the game has been played as a post season trip and game. This is a fundamental difference to the majority of games that have been played against foreign opposition. And in my opinion it is why this has been a resounding success.
I don't know who decided on the trip, but it should ring the bells for future games to be held at this time (if we persist with a summer league). Compare to the games in July against Man United, Leeds and Crystal Palace. We will barely be into 2 or 3 weeks of pre season training. It is stupid timing! Celtic's games in November (whilst excluding World Cup players) is also obviously better timed for our game.
So many have bemoaned the lack of connection between the old NSL and the A League. We also need to make the connections deeper between the world of Football and the A League (and NPL etc). These type of games help in that connection, and this may have only been baby steps, but the unanimous acclimation of the game will generate further eyeballs on it, and hopefully the A League next year. Another opportunity is for Asian club teams to spend time in the country, and arrange fixtures against our teams, whether A League or NPL really wouldn't matter. 
I agree that a proper pyramid for our game is the best option. Your turning your back on the top tier does nothing to bring that about. Inter connection is the only way to get what you want. It is also what the majority of A League fans want. That the owners may have other priorities doesn't mean that fan power is impotent. It is FAN POWER that will drive proper integration of the football pyramid within the Australian context. Its time you got on board. Cheers

I was engaged from day one with the hope they would build a full pyramid after bedding down the A League. I agreed with the need to draw a line under the old and start with something new because rightly or wrongly football had a bad reputation because 'effniks'. (But don't forget it was the NSL that said they had to get rid of country flags and names off the clubs to broaden mainstream appeal so you can't blame the A League for that.) Cutting off the old completely though was a major error on the competition organisers part. 

Having a closed shop model was a mistake.

Having a war against the fans was mistake.

Not expanding and providing a pathway for the old clubs when we were flying was a mistake.

Thats not entirely true. The number of games played by the all stars in the 21/22 season prior to this match was exactly 0. Barcelona may have been a cohesive unit at the end of their season but the A League team was effectively a dozen guys rounded up in the parking lot 5 minutes before the match. Pre-season

All stars teams in this context is not about quality. Its about marketing the game, and in some instance the league / players, in underdeveloped football nations like Thailand and Australia. In hope that one day they can field a full team of their own against international opposition. Maybe the 500k or 600k watching this game would have seen a player they never heard of before and make a note to watch them when the league kicks off again in a few weeks

The NSL tried similar but they were seen as an embarrassment to the game and the Sydney game against Galaxy was a step in the right direction

There was no need to reboot the all stars. It was a desperate cash grab by channel 10 and it failed. I'm not asking for an all inclusive football pyramid, I am asking for a game with dignity and direction. When the A League launched it was the same structure and the J league and K league. People would often say "we're unique like the J League, K League and MLS". The difference was planning and direction. They threw out the box, we decided the box was the product

I think a Jan move for aussies is a good idea, gives them 6 months to adjust to a new country and really try to push on the next season. 

Too many aussies get signed while in their off season its then 2 months of trying to get fit, while they miss the first few months of the season making it nearly impossible to get into the team.

I think this game proves if we can produce some genuine world class talent we will see more fans. Aussies want to see the best of the best cause we ususally the best at sports that no one plays lol

Muz, I dont blame the Aleague for getting rid of ethnic flags and names (NSL did this almost 20 years prior to Lowy) but when he torched the old to make way for the new it was ALWAYS going to be a franchise closed off league.... he set it up that way FROM THE VERY START... I just dont get why people are surprised that it hasn't morphed into what they/we wanted?

You should have looked at the the complete set of plans then mate... :) It was marketed as "football but not as you know it" from day dot. Fully pro, franchises NOT clubs, every major geographic "catchment area" represented to make the most of Lowys clout and marketing opportunities... You weren't seeing a mansion, they werent ever even pretending it was going to be a mansion, it was always just a  MSL Ponzi scheme clone.... Surprised as to how opinions have changed when all the "bitters" back then were screaming at the top of their lungs that it was a shit idea....
To labour your building point further what we all want is a Californian bungalow in the inner suburbs with and ultra modern interior, Miele kitchen and fully tiled bathrooms, yet Lowy was ALWAYS going to build dog box apartments.... 17 years later, they are still apartments and you cant use their foundations to go back to a lovely family home anymore....

Facebook didnt start as a global social media platform. And all those who have tried to emulate this business model have failed. If you wanted to build a global franchise like McDonalds today you dont start by establishing multimillion dollar franchises globally, advertising in every possible spot, and hoping the demand covers the cost

All businesses including sports leagues start small and grow. But equally all businesses have a 3, 5 or 10 year plan, a purpose and a direction. The A League might not have been apparent in its initial structure but it was apparent in its vision. Not sure how much of that was smoke and mirrors or "politician" speak. But the signs, IMO, were there

The league got gun shy after season 6, decided to consolidate, and roll out rubbish ideas since then. Our business model was consolidation. It was about making a 10 team league as a successful commercial product where the KPIs were entirely financial and based on metrics. The vision and direction for the game itself was lost. Its like those who think the Socceroos failing in a 2 legged tie with a crowd of 80k is better than qualifying for the world cup where 5 people might watch them lose their final match at 3am

The J League and K League worked because there was a vision and direction. Early direct quotes suggest this was the path Australia was heading towards, and to argue otherwise is just skepticism. But its all moot anyway. The fact is the game took a backwards step and the game has been paying ever since. People like myself have now become bored and moved on. Whether we should have been interested in the first place - I think I should have been based on what I saw at the time

You thought the game would fail from the onset and you were right. You probably have as many "I told you so's' lined up as I do in the ratings thread. But that doesnt necessarily mean your vision will work either. That remains to be seen

Youve misunderstood my point I guess. In my view its not about the "I told you so's" although many of my fellow 'effniks" do certainly feel that way. I just dont see what you see I suppose with the Aleague taking a backward step after a certain period of time...  All I remember of the great pogroms of 2004 and the launch of the new shiny competition that followed where message of hate from both sides... What about the divide between "old soccer vs new football" would have lead you or anybody to think, back in 2005, that the aim of the Aleague was to EVER unite all football fans in this country. J League and K league had a vision of building from existing foundations to make ALL football professional. Aleague, from its very inception, drew a line in the sand and said "whatever is existing in Australian football can fuck right off, the way of the future is paying a franchise fee and generic American branding, mass marketing to the consumers"  Im interested to see why you think this backward step started 6 years ago and NOT in 2005? The only thing, from an outsiders perspective, that seems to have rapidly declined in the last few years is the initial mainstream appeal and consumer metrics.... nothing else seems to deviate from the overall decline in the game since the cursed one conned furry ears Howard to back his scheme....

I dont believe in the "old soccer new football" mentality. The NSL was a failed mainstream league and lacked any soul when it was rebooted. In fact, many of the A League teams were either ex NSL teams or had roots to NSL teams. Its hard to look at the NSL and think this was a pure football league with an all inclusive pyramid. It was just as much a closed off shop as the rest, had long been de-ethnicised, and the lack of a "real" salary cap was because you cant cap what you dont have

The NSL as a reboot failed, and equally Soccer Australia failed. The code needed a reboot reboot and a new governing structure. To understand the A League model you have to look at the 5 or 10 year plan, not what was rolled out in the first year or two. But as I have seen too many times in my experience in the business world people start off with a project with the intention to change something and wind up with the same result because they lack proper planning and direction. The A League went full circle and winded up as the same crap, but a different name

In 2005 everything was "there". An expansion plan, the addition of new teams from metro cities, a 14 team comp, talk of one day P/R etc... But the game started to falter after season 5. It wasnt prepared for a low so quickly. At that point it was as if the AFL / NRL chiefs in charge were saying "we tried things your way, now lets try the tried and true AFL / NRL model". The game consolidated and gimmicks were introduced including the all stars, concessions, rigged draws etc... The game has been in a downward spiral ever since as it tries to get a commercial balance instead of serve its literal point of a serious competitive league. The game is a laughing stock from top to bottom and our absence from the world cup (I'm calling it) further proves that

Football doesnt need "pure clubs" (which in some instances is a paradox, or too ambiguous) or multiple tiers down to the grassroots to succeed. I'm not saying these are bad things, or that we shouldnt strive for them, I'm just saying that "old soccer" is just as much a dead end solution as the AFL model. Trying to work a model around, for example, reviving South Melbourne and Sydney United is no different to trying to build a 50 or 100 year plan around Central Coast Mariners and Adelaide United. The game needs to exist independently of the clubs. Some clubs are organic, some are purpose built, some last decades, some last weeks

There is no wrong club structure in an organic league. The teams at the top, the teams with the resources, are the right teams, whatever shape they take. Nature decides. The whole point is to see what the league produces instead of working a framework around what we think the answer is. In some regions a club with history might triumph, in others a shameless commercial grab might succeed. Who knows

When the A League first launched, IMO, it was integral that it distanced itself from the previous attempt, and I would argue 100% of the initial success was a result of this decision. Whether it was a lifetime mandate (like masks on buses) or something that was going to change when the time was right, we never got there before the big red abort button was hit. Everything at this point is speculative at best

I'll add something else too

Imagine if you could go back to 2005 and say there's a 20 year plan for P/R. 20 years is a long time and people wouldn't have been happy. Nobody wants to wait 20 years for something and who knows what 2025 would have looked like. But these things take time. An extraordinary amount of time. Thats the reality of our league and every other like it

But here we are in 2022 and we are in the exact same fucking spot. So now say in 2022 that 20 years from now we'll have a plan for P/R. Thats from 2005 to 2042 to get all the pieces in place

We lost the most important 20 years of our development and it can't be argued we're in the middle of something because there is no bigger picture. Just survive from one year to the next

I enjoyed watching the game as it showed some of our young talented players mixing it withsome of the best players in the Spanish League and the crowd enjoying the game.the Barcalona coach praising the ALL-STARS on how well they played. I have followed Barcalona when Ronald Kooman was playing and have watched La-Liga  for a very long time and I only hope that the A-League can one day be as half as good. Very well done to all who came up with this game the A-league players and Dwight Yorke as coach.................charliecat

For someone who turned their back on the league, you've sure got a lot to say on the topic. 

Thats right. I turned my back on the league, not the game. I do aspire to one day again watch football in this country. The irony is the Barcelona fans got to experience more from our game this year than I did

Do you watch your local side or a NPL side?

Thanks for the chat BTW....

The Internet as we know it today didnt really take shape that much in 2005. Things were still pretty much driven by a 3 station and 2 newspaper mentality and there is a lot that was said that isnt documented. Its hard for me to dig up everything that was promised 2003-2005, and even a few years after. And it wasn't a single speech either. Often its a case of piecing together fragments over time to form a macro picture

The differences between the early A League and the current one is the "why" instead of the "what". I'll give one example (but by no means all):
. The top 6 was introduced based on a 14 team league, but the early introduction was to cement a start and end date for the A League (like every other professional sport). A gradual expansion would have meant constant changes in the season length and start / end which would have made it hard to get network backing
. The top 6 was reintroduced after season 6 (despite no expansion intent) because Aussies love finals and the longer teams stay in the less sad their fans get. It was also redesigned to be "more exciting" and lacked any competitive merit. Who asked for that in 2005?

Oh, and in all my ramblings above I forgot about the October kick off too. Another product of the fear of failure introduced after season 6. I think this point alone highlights the difference in ambition. A game that was going to dictate its own fate instead of being told what scraps it was allowed to have

I appreciate all your points and agree with most of them. I just dont feel cheated by the Lowy mob. I'm happy with how the A League started and I'd be curious to know what you would have done differently. I think the way it was managed, especially given the shortfalls at the time, I can't see how it could have been any different. There was IMO a clear change of direction after season 6 and we're still paying for it. But I take your point, and I've always been a believer that if you dont acknowledge your mistakes then you're likely to repeat them. If the game was stuffed from the offset due to the initial framework then its something we need to steer clear of next time

Not really the right thread (and I note Mono always seems to bring this argument to any thread) but we really need to be looking forward rather than backwards.

Also, it does my head in that football fans in this country don't unite around our code. That's always been the main problem - too many competing visions of what football ought to be or look like.

Of course, it hasn't been helped by some terrible decisions in the past and the creation of a working pyramid MUST be the number one goal. We're going nowhere until that happens.

I see so much promise and have no doubt that, by the end of the C21, football will be the number one game in Oz, but I don't want to wait that long.

Small point for the effniks... Sydney Olympic have always been my NPL club but as a skip I was always made to feel unwelcome when I went to matches. I loved Jimmy Patikas and Mark Koussas but not being Greek made everyone suspicious of me in those days. The fans probably thought I was ASIO. So I stopped going.

I live on the Central Coast these days and am overjoyed to have a local club to support but what I most want is for football to find its rightful place in Oz, and that means the pyramid and establishing a national game that is utterly unlike all other Australian sports with promotion and relegation from grassroots all the way to the top.

Should also say, I always enjoy Mono's passion.

99% of the country has a local club to support

Not sure whether to beleive people who SAY they are for Pro/Rol  then PAY an organisation to carry on an anti-P/R operation.

How is football to Unite when there are divisive set-ups running.

Thank you, I'll take that as a compliment. :) 

Well, my well meaning goalkeeper,  you will note that in this particular thread my contribution was to praise the Aleague Allstars And heap even more praise on a young player... You"ll find that a certain mask hating individual instigated all the ALeague bashing this time..... I did find the conversation pretty interesting though.

In regards to your experience with the "effniks" I'm sorry you feel that way. I can't pretend to speak for the Olympic boys but perhaps it was equal parts them being weary of you as it was you being slightly uncomfortable around them??? I know it was meant to be a joke  but assuming  Greek Australians would be wary of ASIO is the sort of low level racism that allowed Lowy to  enact his own white Australia policy....Fear of what you don't understand or relate too is a powerful tool used by those who want to get their own way... 17 years later and I'm still being told by kids, who weren't even born in  2005, that they would never feel welcome at a soccer club where people spoke a foreign language, and then they go off and fire up FIFA to play RM or PSG. The Aleague is pretty crappy they say but at least it better than those old scray monster ethnic NSL days... lol
Im  not dismissing how you felt BTW, I know the old NSL clubs could have seemed fairly hard to swallow for those not willing to put up with young, loud, raucous young blokes looking to make themselves feel alittle better about themselves after being treated like foreigners in their own country all week but I have plenty of skip mates down at Lakeside that would find your comments very very hard to relate too.  Personally I swear to you I have never told anyone to leave a Hellas match for not having the right DNA..... :)