And Bert ( the Socceroo coach with the biggest reputation on the biggest stage).

I think Arnie's mini-apprenticeship under Guus has now paid dividends for our national team. Sure, it couldn't be done for the 2007 Asian Cup, but I don't think I've seen in my lifetime (Farina onwards) our national team adapt as well to opponents, as they did under Guus, and then under Arnie.

D2 what are your thoughts on Rene Meulensteen?

He seems to be an important cog in the coaching staff. 

I know he's considered a legend amongst ManU supporters.

I have my doubts whether he would want o continue to be honest.
I think at most he will stay on for a shot at the Asian cup and finish the generational transition.

In many ways though, that's almost a hiding to nothing really.
Even winning it will not be as big as what's just been achieved

Arnie has taken the opportunity to raise very publicly when everyone was looking the same issues that Ange continually railed against. If he can see there is a chance to change youth development in Australia and have proper, constant and relevant international competition for our younger NTs and a chance to influence through the APL and FA the standard of academies at ALM, NSD & NPL levels I believe he will want to stay on - even if that is not as NT Manager     

Yeah I agree and hopefully someone actually listens this time.
We can all debate their strengths/weaknesses as coaches but both these two only want what's best for australian football.

I thought Arnie's timing in bringing that up in the press was impeccable and the fact we went out and did the job made it all the more powerful as more and more people were listening.

 Most Man U supporters know nothing about football. Their opinion is irrelevant.

When I was coaching years ago at the lower echelons of the Football Aus system, with rep teams, a guy called R Brown, then Dirk Van A, put  up some fantastic training ground exercises in the Performance section for  coaches on this forum. It was a godsend for me.

Arsenal, Chelsea, Ajax, PSV Eindhoven, a Brazilian club, Santos?, and finally Man United, listed all these wonderful training  ground exercises  performed in their academies.

Rene Meulensteen was the progenitor of the Man U  content .

It made me as a coach, to cover for gaps I had.  Meulensteen's Man U drills were fabulous - like all the other 5 clubs.   I used them successfully  from ages 13-14 up to senior NPL level players. Players of any age loved doing them and thought they were fantastic. So for youth/development/senior footballers  his exercises were fantastic!

It may be the case, like one of the greatest football coaching combinations  of all time Brian Clough, was never as good as a coach as he was without his mate, Peter Taylor, his talent spotter and scout, and right hand person to keep Cloughy's quirks under control.

For all I know, Meulensteen, and Tony Vidmar, could perform similar  roles  with Arnie, as  Taylor did with Clough.  

These FACTS speak volumes. Arnold has proven he had a master plan (that appeared shaky to me at times during qualifying) but he really knew what he was doing all along - brilliant. Humble pie eaten at my place every day since Peru WCQ until Argies game. 

Don't forget  Arnie's lengthy apprenticeship under Pim too. 

Arnie states working with Pim completely changed how he related to players. Initially, in the Asian Cup 2007, he said he was authoritarian, and  it did not work. He thought he needed to change and admired Pim's softer approach.

Pim also  oversaw  Australia's first massive Asian WCQing campaign. It was our our most successful too.

All true.

And the first team to score in the 4th round of the WC against a team with  11 players on the pitch.

In 2006, against Italy,  they only had 10 players for most of the game.

And we didn't score in 2006 against a 10 man Italy anyway.

That is Merrick's job isn't it.

About right Flytox, the disruptor lol has been quiet since on the job.

I completely forgot he worked under Pim to be honest.

Getting results and that's tournament football. Less than pretty. Watching the replays it's somewhat clearer what wants to be achieved but I can't help compare to other teams at the Asian Cup and we seem so lame and the players are in the shackles of a disjointed message. You can see the frustration with everyone.

I feel there's a massive lack of attacking initiative. We needed Souttar to charge forward. The Uzbekistan game will hopefully be one where we'll see something that plays into how we typically can and want to play.

You make a good point about getting results which is the only thing that matters in tournament football.So far we have looked very ordinary against tight defensive units but  at least we keep chipping away though creativity is lacking.

Boyle's driving run finally resulted in the goal even though there was an element of luck.If you are prepared to attack defenders then their best laid plans are pulled apart and goal chances result.

Bos,particularly on the left, in the first half backed himself and  caused  problems for the Syrians.Silvera also ran at the defence but unfortunately turned the ball over several times.However the fact that he made the effort was the important thing.

McGree also backs himself and that is the strength he brings to the team.At this stage he is not at Rogic's level in tight spaces but he is getting there with his experience in the Championship.

O'Neill is not an Aaron Mooy replacement but will grow into that position as the fulcrum of the team.

O'Neil to me is the most overrated player in our squad. He does nothing, makes the Socceroos. Unreal. Plays for Australia, does nothing, people begging for him to start. What am I missing? Any goals? Assists? Crucial Tackles? What does he give us literally anyone else doesnt? Super Safe passes backwards? He has zero go forward and zero vision. You put him on to kill a game maybe.

His role is definitely not one to score regularly. You can just see he has a football brain. I don't think there we many duels to win against Syria but the way he swept and distributed everything against Ecuador was the best centre midfield debut I've seen for the national team. Secondary assist against Bahrain. Superb 40m diagonal ball to Boyle in the box against Syria. A few other lob attempts which are of decent height needing defenders to clear in a rush. He draws fouls well because he can use his balance and weight. We got some free kicks in good areas from that. His positioning and movement into the right spaces creating triangles is excellent. It's the way he gracefully gets around unlike the hectic other midfielders is what makes him superior. I wish we could partner him with Genreau.

Genreau might get time next season as it looks like toulouse are going down
He is an interesting player, doesnt get a lot of touches but is quite influential nonetheless

Glad others are noticing the tactics. Our tactics are designed to not lose against weak teams and give us a good chance against top teams. We dont like committing too many forward and we set up in posession so we have players that can quickly cover if there is a turnover. This means we sacrifice attacking impetus.

But we actually did play a reasonably technical game given we were so conservative and conceded overloads in advanced areas. We broke their lines pretty easily most times and are topping the cup for touches in the pen box but 15th for shots. We have been good enough to avoid having to comitting more forward

Against top teams we will have 3 main scoring avenues
1) set pieces (this improved this game but isnt quite good enough yet)
2) transition (we are top in winning positionl
3) turnovers in the front 3rd (we are 2nd in this)

We will generally try and get a shot away against top teams before their defense sets so we wont need to beat a low block unless its the last 20 minutes of a game and we are behind

As johnzasz says O'Neill is a clever footballer.Against teams like Syria and India his job is not to play up too high up the pitch but to stop any counterattacks ,win the ball and keep the possession game going.It seems that he is not being constructive but his role is to control the pace of the game.He is not at Aaron Mooy's level at doing this but with time he might become just as influential.

Nunya ,you say he does not score goals nor provide assists.Against Asian opponents who set low block defences he is not expected to score goals-indeed if he was shooting from 30 metres out he would not be doing his job which is to recycle the ball.Also against these type of defences it is almost impossible to provide a pass to feet  from where he would be positioned-the ball needs to be played over the top but this is a low percentage option .He is there to move the ball out to the wings or to a player in a better position to continue maintaining possession.As for tackles  again he doesn't need to do these as he ( and anyone else who plays in that position) should be able to read the play and be in place to delay or harass the attacking players.The CBs and FBs are the ones who need to make the crucial tackles usually

His value to our attacking  style may become more evident if we play a team which plays a more open brand of football.Let's hope the game against Uzbekistan is more open and he comes into his own .Baccus who also plays in that position and who often starts in front of O'Neill is quicker and he does look more involved as he bustles the opposition .However I feel O'Neill is the better choice and that's not a criticism of Baccus but just my feeling that the team functions better with O'Neill on the park

2 and 3 we're implemented very well last year and that's what excited many. I think we have to really look how those situations occur. They don't occur when we have the ball and teams sit deep. It's transitions and turnovers where we appear very dangerous. It happened on occasion in the past two games and my
'this looks better' came out. It's about using those type of moments to our advantage. 

Yeah which makes it tough to judge us until we play against top teams. We might ugly our way through wcq again unless the younher technical players come through

Japan and Korea’s recent results putting Arnie’s results-based football into perspective. But waves of MV and WSW fans just keep hating on him no matter what. 

Reddit is mercifully better

Qatar won the last asian cup and middle easter teams have been tough work for decades at home for all east asian teams. It is very rare to walk through middle eastern teams and we have been very solid

Yeah I’ve been enjoying Reddit’s more measured approach lately as well. FTBL forum and Twitter are just over-the-top outrage at everything all the time. 

Its not hating on him "no matter what".  Its hating on him despite *the results*.

I don't think his team's football is good to watch but the results can't be argued with. In the end its the results will matter and be remembered.

Semi's or better at this tournament and he will probably be offered the next World Cup campaign.

Beg to differ.

 O'Neill has been outstanding. 

Good succinct  O'Neill evaluation!

I think Arnie's tactical  changes in  different  thirds of the pitch in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition, are currently outstanding!

He has used a new tactic to negate the potent counter attacks from teams playing deep defensive blocks.

What he does is often to  position  one or both of the full backs into a line with O'Neill/Baccus, creating a 2-3-2-3  as we build up. Usually the full backs are pushed up high creating a 3-4-3 flat midfield or a 4-3-3 attacking midfield. He still does this at times too.

Then  he uses a 4-4-2 in Ball Possession Opposition. 

Importantly, the Socceroos hold good shape in these manifestations of the formations.

Some teams we play just play a 4-4-2 flat midfield the whole time.