With our thread on Aussies Abroad, there is an inherent  assumption that many leagues overseas are better for Socceroos to play in than the ALM.

There are some extremely knowledgeable posters on this forum who know a lot about where our Aus players play overseas football. I'm not one of them.

What has changed in this World Cup, is that with us reaching the last 16, no longer can accusations be levelled at the Socceroos, or Asia in general, for qualifying in a weak Confederation. Hence, denigrating our quality. Pertinently, we were only 5th ranked in Asia in the WCQ campaign.

Yet since we've qualified as 5th ranked Asian team, beating the UAE, we've:

 *Beaten the 5th ranked South American team in WCQs - Peru.

*We've beaten one of only 5 African nations to qualify for the WC - Tunisia.

*We've beaten the 10th ranked team in the world in the WC, Denmark, where quite a number of our players play football. Looking up Denmark, the three teams  our players have played for are the three best teams in Denmark, with one of them having significant Champ League/Europa league pedigree - FC Copenhagen.

*We've also pushed Argentina to the limit in the round fof 16.

The current problem is that many overseas leagues where our players play club football are usually playing with and against domestic players in those leagues who have no experience in international football. Or a failed experience in international football.

Many mid ranked UEFA leagues have teams who regularly  don't qualify for Euro Champs and World Cups. These are leagues that our club players play in. They are also often coached by coaches  who have no direct experience of international football and international football trends, depending on their  domestic football federations.

A few leagues where it might be better for the development of international players outside the European big four, who our players are rarely good  enough for,  supposedly, could be Croatia, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, the USA.

 I'm surmising they redress the phenomenon that is our major problem in Aus - the short 26 games home and  away season.   In ALM there are a few  Football Aus Cup games, and, at least  ACL games for one/ two clubs. Which is close to ideal if  a club is in the ACL.

With Croatia as a league, it is dominated by two big clubs, with European Champ League and Europa League pedigree - Dynamo Zagreb and Hadjuk Split. Croatia national team  comprises players  generally  from the UEFA big four, or they play for  Split and Zagreb. 

Of course, Netherlands, Belgium and Portugal are  desirable locations, if players can  gain a contract. These are constant solid performers in World Cups and Euro Champs. The also have  2-3 big clubs, who provide a lot of national team players, along with domestic players who play in the big four UEFA leagues.

I have not watched much English Championship  League  for a while, but there were  some awful hoofball, second ball teams in that league who played  football dross a few years back.  Which is useless to develop international players.

At the same time when I was watching the Eng Championship, there were an increasing number of teams who like  Coach Benitez, had teams playing quality possession football. The Championship is the 6th richest league in the world, but tactically, and in terms of style of football, it was generally  useless for developing  players who reach the last 16 teams of the  World  Cups.

Australia has achieved a lot  reaching the last 16 in Qatar.

Playing against  teams like Argentina, France and even Denmark in World Cups, and reaching the last 16 is a far higher standard that most players club  scenario  play against - even in the 6 big World Powerhouse leagues.

One issue is  that UEFA football prepares  players to play well in Europe. Many   UEFA national teams, highly ranked is world rankings,  choke playing in Asia, the Mid East,  Africa, or Asia. Despite our modest playing resources, Aus are able to produce a battle hardened football team used to playing  in countries with unfamiliar   cultural phenomena.

Maybe it is time to rethink where our Aussie players play overseas  club football to be the best players they can be at international level?

Is it time to give Scotland, Austria, Norway, Austria, Israel, Greece, Turkey,  and lately, Italy, plus any national second divisions,  the flick?

I've always maintained that the best league for players to play in are determined by a number of factors (not in order of precedence):
1. The heritage of the player (ie ethnic background. This is seriously underrated in my opinion)
2. The position of the player (some leagues are better for honing defensive rigour whilst others suite more technical players)
3. What is the player's work permit status (this is applicable mostly to the UK but some other countries too)
4. Probability of getting significant game time or at least support by the club via loan deal 

I've read about  this issue in so many  biographies with Euroroo and Socceroo careers.

Many of our Socceroos only managed to get contracts in Europe because of having tenuous  relationships to a distant relative in  a particular country.

This is a really good point.

However, whereas it was  considered  to be a terrific education to play in  Italy as a defensive player, their national paradigm can be considered problematic at this point in time.   They  have failed to qualify  for the last two World Cups.

Their average current  Italian domestic   players one would assume to  be inferior to what the Italians used to be - relative to the rest  of the national teams in UEFA.  

Switzerland topped their UEFA WCQing group for Qatar, and  Italy were knocked out by North Macedonia, who failed to qualify themselves.

No expert here - But it appears DECENT players can become GOOD players if they have a club coach willing to give them opportunities (mostly game time) to develop. Standards are higher in top Euro leagues but much harder to get consistent game time in? Spfl has been great for Rowles, Devlin, Baccus etc development but not so much Cummings who was bench warming at Dundee United before thriving in AL and getting minutes in a WCup. 
Harry Souttar has thrived playing in ECL of course.

A league doing ok too producing likes of Goodwin, Tilio, Kuol etc 

Don’t think it’s that league specific anymore with rest of world catching up to Euro leagues a bit recently 

I think Belgium would be a good starting point for Australian players wanting to establish a career in Europe, and in the past many Australian players had great careers in Belgium.

The Belgium league is a good league of a high standard.

Other good leagues for Aussies to play in would be obviously the EPL, La Liga, France, Germany and The Netherlands.

The best thing we can do is develop and retain players in the A league. That way the choice for any rising young players will be A league > EPL, Bundesliga etc rather than > Pohang Steelers or St Pauli junior academy, where they are unlikely to improve much. Croatia, Greece, Denmark, etc probably provide only modest, if any, improvement over the A league.

Italy are the current Euro champions.

Agreed. I'd add Portugal to that list and maybe Turkey, although warnings have been issued in the past about clubs there not honouring contracts. 

Behich had a successful career in Turkey (122 games for Bursaspor) as did Ersan Gulum (84 games fro Besiktas). 

I think their heritage helped them navigate the tricky cultural clash/bureaucracy over there.

I knew that, but  Italy failing to qualify  for the last  last two World Cups, is astonishing. 

 It is perplexing that a team can be best in Europe, but two years prior to and two years after that victory,  Italy can't beat modest UEFA teams to qualify for  the biggest  tournament.

Italy's status as a big five UEFA league can be considered only in monetary terms does it qualify. Moreover, things change in football very quickly. England, Spain, Germany and France, the current UEFA big four leagues, in terms of the domestic national teams playing standards at international level,  qualified effortlessly for Qatar in comparison to Italy.

In terms of national teams in UEFA - Belgium, Portugal, Croatia, Netherlands and Switzerland - have been more consistent than  Italy since 2017. That is despite those countries having domestic leagues that are not considered to be the UEFA big leagues.  

The upcoming NSD could be the new go to league, pro/rel with the NPL, it'll be massive.

I don't want to sour the boys achievement but this has been a different world cup, lot of big teams bowed out early. I think we could give morocco some trouble if we sat back and made them come to us.

Meaning im not sure what you can grasp in terms of data this WC has had the most "tournament" football where anything can happen over that 90 mins.

In terms of league, I think language plays a big part... somewhere that English is quite common Belgium, Netherlands, Scotland, Championship, some German clubs, but also the guys with euro backgrounds going to countries they know like Croatia/Serbia/Turkey etc. I think going to Italy or Spain would be tough if you dont know the language.

The thing I find most interesting about your thoughts D2, is that you have written 735 words but not used the word "milieu" at all.

You could possibly even add shop window.

The Qatari league might be a good option, it produced 3-4 times the amount of players to the World Cup then that of the A-League 🤔😜

I think you made some very good points highlighted.
How could you even think to consider power shifts are occoring, certain leagues are on the spiral when
A WC during the normal Euro etc season.
Just 2 odd weeks from Club stoppage head to a WC.
Normal fixtures pre WC we're condensed.
WC in Qatar of all places.

Plus one thing that is so obvious - you can group countless best players from many top leagues isn't the recipe for success.
Its nothing new of some big ones dropping off but this WC more than ever before it seems.
Also most if not all the top players don't play in their local leagues so thats not a reflection on the local league barring the exceptions ala Saudi's for eg and the likes.

As for what is the best league for promising Roos to play in ?
Well that all comes down to their talent and who's calling - the bar is set based on your talent, oh I'll go to Belguim ? or Portugal one that I think is a rippa nursing pool BUT the Club has to want you in the first place.
So its up to the player who has the "it" factor a Club wants - Volpato for eg, take the politics out of it regards us etc but thats the bar right now, be it SerieA isn't a top league to D2 due to them not making the WC x times is bollocks to me, he's playing in a comp way above any of our current Roos are in thats for sure !

I don't like our players going to Portugal or Greece as they seem to go missing and are hard to track. Th EFL provides plenty of games and has smaller benches.

The holy trinity is still there. Switzerland is a good place to be. 

I'd like more Australian players to play in Holland.  High quality league, 34 game season, 18 teams and we share a footballing 'philosophy' of sorts.   Better than playing in Scotland.

And Qatar had an even a greater number of times than Scottish nationals at the World Cup!

If we play our cards right, we can become the "Croatia, Serbia, Portugal" of Asia. Rekindling our youth prospects and setting up as a "selling league". That is the kind of international prestige we can build on.

No other code in Australia can make insane revenue from player transfers. We have to capitalise on this unique situation to compete and I think MLS is learning this too. I don't care where kids go because we should be able to build the culture to be trailblazing mercenaries that succeed no matter where we play... like many south americans, africans and eastern european players do. 

We gotta make of what we have here absolutely sublime because not many countries can offer the lifestyle factor that we are so acclimatised to. I have seen too many friends try and chase the dream abroad and come back with a tail between their legs because of multiple factors and end up fizzling out. 

TL;DR - Promote a positive environment and attitude HERE for going abroad for youth but also increase our reputation (connecting NPL and adding NSD will help) so our prospects dont have to go to the Moldovan 3rd division for a last ditch effort chasing the dream.

well said TheDjentleman agreed.

Qatar didn’t make it out of their group like Roos did - wouldn’t have made it to Qatar without Scottish players Boyle and Souttar - Souttar was brilliant for Australia - probably the best Roos player in WCUP 👏

also after the results of this WC, Arnie should be on the phone to guys like Chipperfield, Circati, Volpato and Robertson and show them how the aussies boys are being treated atm and ask if they want to be gods here or average players for a euro team.

does australia need more feeder leagues than just the SPL?

It's really not.. 
Bundi 2 (and 1), Belgian and Swiss leagues have fallen away a lot since we made that. Only really the Dutch league has come on since then. At that time I think it was around the 10th best league now is ranked 6th. Leagues such as the Danish, Norwegian, Scottish and especially the Austrian league have jumped up in that time. 

Isn't that down to the league's performance in European competition? While an indicator of sorts, Turkey had jumped 8 spots in a year down too good European results from part of their league. Austrian league is basically anchored by Salzburg. 

The Dutch league no doubt has their big guns but I find the range of that league akin to English Super rugby league where teams are smashing others every week.

Thankfully we've seen that playing regularly matters although I do find the majority of some of those leagues pretty dire at times.

I mentioned the Swiss league predominantly as it's a popular shopping window for German clubs. The Croatia path is popular for Italy but if your name doesn't end in 'ic' I doubt they'd be interested. 

They are the markets Arnie said the ALeague compares with btw. I would of said the Epl being a wannabe Euro snob.

I still think The Netherlands is the almighty pinnacle transition league for our boys to see if you're gonna cut it with Europe's top dogs. 

At this current time, we have fallen out of favour from that market and we have dropped down a tier. I just saw a kid get transferred to the Faroe Islands from Perth RedStar (formerly ECU Joondalup). Good luck to him but damn we can't catch the eyes like we did in the past anymore...

I still remember when Oar, Sarota and Zullo went to Utrecht like it was yesterday and ever since then despite like De Silva and a few others (best of luck to Rawlins), the Dutch league has not been easily approachable for our prospects. Just gotta keep working hard proving our worth again.

As this is our best World Cup result, it surely has to be Scotland.  The younger they go there the better too.