Off topic, but the other day I was looking for where they stole 'knight' image from for their logo and I couldn't find it. I vaguely remember it being from a car, possibly Holden but couldn't find the source. Do you remember? Was trying to rub it into a mates face, as he doesn't believe me that it was stolen.

Your correct I just can't seem to find it either...

@tsf can you help?

I would be OK with this...... We just got bundled out of the cup again  (garbage coach, garbage tech department, played u21s and sub keeper for no apparent reasn ...dont get me started Im seething)

Exactly my point.... Any claim of "fan focused" is marketing jargon for "how can we fleece more money out of these suckers".
The price of "popularity" is to become an AFL or NFL or MLB or NRL.... or MLS.... I don't want this, if anyone else does then we are desiring two vastly different outcomes for the sport here.

Lol, I certainly can

Ripped off an 82 ford crusader 

of course great players do, but no real big name stars there imo

building long term community roots imo is what garners support, however young kids probably want to see superstars. The conflict of a franchise league hey!

My only point is that MV showed it's possible to build a massive following from fans and solid LOYAL PLAYERS - this merry go round does not help. I'd argue melbourne was it's strongest and most watchable with the solid players for a five year period - Roddy, Archie, Muscat etc 

hahahaha thats the one... 

Thanks, much appreciated. Thought I was going crazy as I couldn't find it anywhere and none of my mates had any idea what I was talking about.

Do you think victory crowds recover the next year or two or do you think this year was a fatal wound?

All comes down to on field results. Popa probably needs to go, especially if he gets the spoon. The only way I see him staying is if they manage to scrape into finals, which is a big ask. If they can return to being a top 4 side next season, the fans will return. Maybe not the 25k from years gone by, but a solid 18-20k would be achievable.

I don't really have much time for anything American, and that includes the MLS.
However, I do agree with Mid's central point about the MLS' TV revenue being so tiny, that it makes up an almost insignificant percentage of total revenues, which is highly unusual in modern sport.
Not saying we need to wish for having tiny TV revenues as well, but given our situation where TV revenues are unlikely to rise in the short to medium term, then we probably have to work on other revenue streams to fund a professional league.
But the options are few.
Attendances, membership, merchandise, match day revenue...
Sponsorship is normally a biggy, but it's a chicken and egg thing, if you're getting next to no eyeballs on screens (preferably massed), your sponsorship revenue is going to be vastly reduced (people on here often poo poo the official TV ratings, but that's what the big advertisers are paying attention to).
That can be overcome by having significant memberships (thus giving clubs something to sell directly to potential sponsors), but once again, the membership numbers really aren't large enough for that either.

oh look the big names are just a handful over the whole league's run to date agree just that those unassuming ones have done very well and to the general public they are ex OS key play makers or whatever position they field.
I'm with you long term community roots is vital that is lacking, yer yours mine love to see that "star" player like ADP but it wasn't a new concept as we know, heck I jumped hoops to watch Best when he came out amongst others.
Local players have garnished well in the AL but its lacked the connect below thats needed.
You guys/MV done really well pioneering those days, the burban conflicts are opposite to Syd/SFC being both had the city to themselves originally.
SFC being based in the East really effected its growth compared to MV.
Lowy wanted it near home, replacing his beloved Hakoah - IF SFC based more centrally it could have been a whole different growth storey.
Anyway - bit off topic - I just wish for unity/rivalries and where the game having its identity instead of following.

I don't believe anything is fatal besides death :)
But the club is at a low point, I can't see it getting much better with Popa, after the fans crap I think half the fans don't even care about anything from other supporters to the team.

Over time though things change, people will forget bucket boy and and bad results are a distant memory. Hard to see it getting the interest it had in those early years though

he don't get it.... then the reason why...

I am not suggesting we follow an MLS model.... 

I am suggesting the MLS have a decision making model that focuses on fans... by making the decision that most of their revenue would come from fans and that losing fans was a no no and getting new fans was essential they have grown a lot from where they were... yes they are small compared to grid iron and basketball, baseball and hockey... but equally both basketball, baseball & hockey play thousands of games each year ..

The take away is a decision making processes that puts fans at the core is the way the A-L should go... that does not mean copy MLS BTW ... it means copying the mythology .

 

Bucket man vs peter hore

we have had some serious pests hold the league back

hope victory recover

we have only really had four clubs, especially victory, that have had much bigger crowds than the nsl.

i dont think p and r works unless we have a buffer division. i dont think a second division works unless you have a top division with at least a few clubs capable of packing stadiums. I dont think we really challenge the top teams in world football consistently till we have p and r. So Victory recovering is pretty darn important. They are about as important to oz football as the rangers are to scotland - their league became a farce when rangers went down several divisions

I find it fascinating that people always point to MV as being vital just because they have the fan numbers. Why should MV be the ones that have to always boost the numbers? Why not CCM, Jets or Roar? We know MV can pull numbers when they are doing well. The focus needs to be on the clubs that don't pull numbers even when they are doing well. The reality is that every club should have no problem getting a 10k min to every home game. That shouldn't be a difficult task, the majority of the clubs have their cities to themselves. 

True, and all spl teams should play like celtic and rangers. Easier said than done and only wsw, sfc and vic seem to be able to average well above 10k consistently

Just read an article on the IPL.... its becoming mega massive, as is 20 / 20 cricket....

Prior to the big bash the A-L kinda was becoming a real media talking point.....  

The A-L has never come to terms with the BB upstart coming along an hogging the limelight and sucking fans, ratings, sponsors over summer... followed soon thereafter y the IPL...

Its not discussed much... but cricket IMO or 20 / 20 cricket is going to continue to be an issue Football admins need to deal with.... and its not KFC buckets on heads... 

ah ok, maybe I read your posts too MLS directive.

OK copy a piece/portions of its mythology, sure - look no doubt from our end the core supporters have been pulled from pillar to post, treated like crims near on tbh.
Down to SU58 or Rockdale or even if trouble down in grass roots it gets media, if there is one whiff or minor trouble it has been put up front and centre and pressure applied our Admin to charge and throw the keys out might I add. 
How they have ripped any active group has been game experience suppressive, real shame the game keepers react instead of being reactive. 

Obviously each city is different and each club has their own challenges, but 10k is not a lot of people. It's about 2-2.5% of the population of places like Newcastle or Central coast. Places like Perth and Brisbane we are talking about less than half a percent of their populations. It shouldn't be difficult to get 10k people to a game in any of the major cities. This is where the APL and the individual clubs need to take responsibility and do some actual research and analysis. 

yep too true.
AU population is around 1.3M, get great attendance due to the rvival last couple of seasons.
Jets are in a metro incl Maitland around 461,000, great stadium might I add and their Jnr football is strong.
For all the good ground CCM keep doing and last couple of seasons they should be 10k easy now.
BR is a basket case due to fixture change like SFC suffered the last number of seasons and their table last few years but playing in smaller grounds should be full house this day and age, in saying that SFC struggled filling Leichardt.
Another point is once you are not vying for a play off spot whats the point attending the last games.

It is interesting to look at attendance over the final years of the NSL.  The average attendance at the NSL over its final 3 seasons was 4,380.  In that period seven of the 12 clubs averaged less than the Bulls now.  One club, Perth, averaged in excess of 10,000.  The best attended clubs were Perth, Adelaide and Newcastle with South slightly behind Newcastle.

Attendance had been dwindling for a while and the clubs had been reducing player payments.  It was known that the NSL was to be reformatted.

Similarly the A-League attendance has been dwindling for several years and on top of that attendances were severely affected by the worst pandemic in a century dropping down to the low to mid 5,000s.  This season attendance has increased substantially and there is no reason to think that the improvement will not continue provided the League is well managed.  How close it gets to 10,000 per game will depend on how quickly Victory regains its fans and whether the previous slow reduction will continue.  A second issue is that any expansion is likely to increase total attendance but reduce average attendance.

Again, why not when Brisbane gets fans back, or when City gets fans back? Why is it the sole job of MV to boost the averages? Just because they have in the past? Only 4 clubs are averaging 10k+ this season. Every other club is averaging 6k and below. That's a big gap. Especially given that 3 of those clubs in the 6k and under group are sitting in the top 5 on the table. Serious questions need to be asked when the best club on the field for the last 3 consecutive seasons struggles to pull a 6k average.

I mean it does seem like we probably do have to live with some bad press and try and crack down on individuals rather than active support as a whole or the league may as well give up ever being viable

I'm hoping 'mythology' here is supposed to be 'methodology' and someone's autocorrect has gone awry.

hhhhmmmmm

To steal your line... you just don't get it...

The MLS have a decision making process that is """""FAN FOCUSED"""" on the basic that in time all other metrics will lift if the fan base and with fans sponsors keep lifting...

If Australian Footballs over-lords made decisions with how will the fans react and how do we get extra fans... in time admins get smart.... 

You may totally disagree with the following vid its from the mid teens... and was part of a series called """The Movement""" they had close to 50 of em.... IMO it highlights the gap.... its about Atlanta and moving to a new stadium which BTW they average around 50K .... its roughly 12 minutes long, and it talks about Rap Music, Eating places, Culture, Tattoos, Trifo's, kids playing Football... the new stadium... and shows at best maybe a minute of Football.... they identified some fans and kinda made Football a lifestyle decision for the young... as I said you may very much dislike it but by the holy mother this vid and a lot of other things  have this team in redneck USA averaging around 50K per match.... 

You don't have to copy the model to copy a decision making model and some of the things they have done....

If you want the vid I posted about above...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4eM0tcMzD4&t=24s&ab_channel=MajorLeagueSoccer 

Mid, I think you have a few of us confused by "terminology" Personally i agree with you, that video of yours about Atlanta is a perfect example of club utilising its knowledge of an existing fan base/demographic/region call it what you will to improve its revenue... Thats great I think the Aleague clubs can learn alot from something like this... maybe not as crassly commercial but its not my concern its up to each individual club to "define" themselves... Please dont think it is "fan focused" though it is "customer focused" they are two very separate things.... 

The MLS as an organisation though, makes the lions share of its revenue from selling licenses (thus the calls of disparagement about it being nothing but a ponzi scheme) This just cant happen (or at least for every much longer) in Australia we dont have the population, nor the endless available "markets" to make this appealing... Clubs should via away from this franchsie model and go their own path. The "customers" they have tried (and failed in the large) to attract to their game from the hordes of sports mad Aussies don't seem to want to follow soccer. The only logical conclusion (at least in my eyes) is to turn towards the hundreds of thousands that already know and love the game of soccer in this country. The thousands that dont need convincing that football is a good "lifestyle"  choice...

https://medium.com/@isaac_krasny/unpacking-the-major-league-soccer-business-model-827f4b784bcd

Have a quick read of the above, most is fairly common knowledge. But One thing I didnt note in any of this is any refercne to improving the actual soccer being played on the pitch, or youth development, or National team ..... 

How does Major League Soccer make money?

They sell soccer.

The product is the game. They pay players to battle it out week after week for your entertainment. You pay to watch this in the stadium, or you pay for a cable package to watch it on your TV, or you buy MLS Live to stream the games. Soccer is the key product. MLS has to make a game that is attractive, interesting, and convincing enough to get you to make the trip, or at least tune in for 90 minutes.

Thanks but no thanks.

It isn't the sole responsibility of Victory but they have had the biggest loss in attendance so a return to near previous levels of attendance makes the biggest impact on the leagues overall figures.  The advantage Victory have had is the Melburnian trait of being theatre-goers and if they get their performance on the pitch right a lot of the fans will return.  Whether the real conscientious objector stay aways return is another matter.  Like all of the clubs they will struggle to regain any fans they have lost as a result of them finding new priorities during the pandemic.  As the old adage says it is easier to get new supporters than it is to win back old supporters that you have lost so the build back could be slower than we would like it to be.  

Perth could go close to doubling their attendance when they return to their upgraded stadium which will increase the overall average by around 200 a game . Brisbane will struggle to recover their loss without a new owner I think so that might hold the average back by about 400 a game.  I hope that's wrong.  What happens at Victory affects the league total by around 900 a game.  The remaining 1,100 shortfall to get to an average of 10,000 will be the responsibility of the other 9 clubs.  Heres hoping they all get cracking into growing their clubs core - the fans .

Last year MLS revenue was 1.85 billion... with 28 teams.... media deal 65 million.....

1.85 billion is One thousand eight hundred and fifty million dollars..... you seriously believe the lions share of that money comes from licence fees .... articles like the one you referenced are everywhere and have become folk law... but any analysis of the actual says different... 

This year with 29 teams and a new 300 million media deal revenue is expected to exceed 2.3 billion.... or two thousand three hundred million.... this year St Louis paid 200 million to get in.... 200 million is around 8.6% of total revenue.... hardly the lions share....

With an average ticket price between 50 & 65 and over 10 million fans ... crowd revenue is around 600 million... not counting food and drink sales at their stadiums which they own.... plus all their stadiums have naming rights sponsors... then their is there sponsors.... and they also connect sponsors with fans and take a percentage off the top....add shirt sales and special day events etc... 

The only point I am making is the MLS has learnt how earn huge revenues via creating a fan base... and thats based on a Fans First decision making model.... the belief that it lives off licence fees is rubbish... not saying its not an important part but the lions share simply not so... 8.6 % of revenue is nothing to ignore but neither is it make or break...

For the billionth time I am not suggesting an MLS model... I am suggesting the fan focused decision making model is by however its viewed impressive.... and one Australian professional should look at and IMO copy...

An example of sponsorship is a 830 million deal with Adidas recently signed for Seven years or close to 119 million per year...

I've played for two and coached at another.

The standard just  isn't quite good enough as a spectator to watch home games on a weekly basis. Even a Div 2 AL team would lift immeasurably, as they would be pros or semi-pros.