A-League Mens - Round 2


A-League Mens - Round 2

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Friday 27th October 2023
  • Brisbane Roar vs Sydney FC
    Suncorp Stadium
    Kick-off: 18:45 (QLD time) / 19:45 (Eastcoast time)
    Broadcast: P+
Saturday 28th October 2023
  • Wellington Phoenix vs Perth Glory
    Sky Stadium
    Kick-off: 17:30 (NZ time) / 12:30 (WA time) / 15:30 (Eastcoast time)
    Broadcast: P+
  • Western Sydney Wanderers vs Western United
    CommBank Stadium
    Kick-off: 7:45pm
    Broadcast: 10 Bold / 10 Play / P+
Sunday 29th October 2023
  • Central Coast Mariners vs Macarthur FC
    Industree Group Stadium
    Kick-off: 15:00pm
    Broadcast: 10 Bold / 10 Play / P+
  • Melbourne Victory vs Newcastle Jets
    AAMI Park
    Kick-off: 17:00pm
    Broadcast: P+
  • Adelaide United vs Melbourne City FC
    Coopers Stadium
    Kick-off: 18:30 (SA time) / 19:00 (Eastcoast time)
    Broadcast: P+

Current Table
CLUBGDPTS
AU33
MV23
WU13
NJ01
PG01
BR01
MAC01
NIX01
WSW01
MC-10
SFC-20
CCM-30


Edited
2 Years Ago by someguyjc
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Middle of a dry spell and on gameday for our first home match the entire South East region of Queensland is copping rain.

Gotta love the rain when you need it - but someone, somewhere is taking the piss.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 4:38 PM
Middle of a dry spell and on gameday for our first home match the entire South East region of Queensland is copping rain.

Gotta love the rain when you need it - but someone, somewhere is taking the piss.

Mariners are known as the droughtbreakers on the Central Coast. Especially noticeable early in the season. so far this season 2 AFC home matches for 2 full matches of rain.
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My personal belief is that in wet conditions the team with the better quality individuals copes better than the team with the better teamwork.

So with that in mind, Roar will only win by 2 today instead of giving them the flogging we would in the dry.

I'd like a clean sheet so 2-0, but I would begrudgingly accept 3-1.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

Edited
2 Years Ago by Roar in me Blood
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bugger you cane toad, 3-1 sfc :)


Love Football

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Friday night football

Brisbane 2-1 for me 
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Roar tearing Sydney apart
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Shades of Roarcelona tonight. Not sure if Brisbane were great or Sydney just poor or a bit of both.

Lots of young guns running around which is good to see.

This Hore bloke goes alright.


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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Roar look really good. Maybe Ross discipline with youthful spirit with backbone Brits might surprise this year. Make the finals for me.
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Bloody good game to be at!

Crowd was only 7688 I think, but it looked and felt like maybe 10k or so. Den were awesome with their noise. So good to have them back in numbers at Suncorp.

Roar played really good football for the first half, decent football for the next quarter and desperate football with some quality in the final quarter. We were running out of legs for the final 15-20. Sydney did not wear their shooting boots I think it is safe to say and they did get opportunities that they failed to put away. Redders had a bit of a shocker with one miss hit kick causing a goal for us and a fumble that had him worried and scrambling.

Lolley had some chances but was kept much quieter than the last time we met. He certainly wasn't kept out of the game though. Still such a dangerous player. Most of the Sydney attack was limited by solid and energetic defence keeping pressure on.

Ryan Grant was getting really frustrated with his team's decision making in the second half. At one point he gave a pass inside into a dangerous area and after a couple of passes it came flying back his way. His grunt of disgust was audible and telling.

Under Aloisi we continue to play great attacking football - with one particular moment in the second half showing maybe 5 or 6 one touch passes zigzagging up the flank from the backline into the forward line. It wasn't flashy - it was just really good controlled football. I saw O'Shea picking out a good pass to Berenguer who then picked out a good pass into the forward line. That is the sort of thing I have been waiting for as opposed to them just both being on the park together and each doing their own good things. There is something about two quality players combining that unlocks so much more of a resilient defence.

One of Hore's much better games - once again he was legless by the end but putting two away was brilliant for him. Waddingham looked dangerous again and competes for the ball physically and mentally so well. At the other end, Trewin had a huge impact as the game wore on - tireless in his effort to shut down attacking raids.

Fantastic game again from Freke, and even better; I don't think anyone had a bad game for us.

Mileusnic continues to be wayward with his shooting but works so hard in both directions and creates many chances every game. I am happy to have him in the side.

Great to be at Suncorp. Great to have the rain hold off for the whole game. Great to get such a solid win. Great to consign those ratbags from Sydney to the bottom of the table eh LFC ;)

Corica getting a yellow card was an added bonus for my ears...

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

Edited
2 Years Ago by Roar in me Blood
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Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 11:25 PM
Bloody good game to be at!

Crowd was only 7688 I think, but it looked and felt like maybe 10k or so. Den were awesome with their noise. So good to have them back in numbers at Suncorp.

Roar played really good football for the first half, decent football for the next quarter and desperate football with some quality in the final quarter. We were running out of legs for the final 15-20. Sydney did not wear their shooting boots I think it is safe to say and they did get opportunities that they failed to put away. Redders had a bit of a shocker with one miss hit kick causing a goal for us and a fumble that had him worried and scrambling.

Lolley had some chances but was kept much quieter than the last time we met. He certainly wasn't kept out of the game though. Still such a dangerous player. Most of the Sydney attack was limited by solid and energetic defence keeping pressure on.

Ryan Grant was getting really frustrated with his team's decision making in the second half. At one point he gave a pass inside into a dangerous area and after a couple of passes it came flying back his way. His grunt of disgust was audible and telling.

Under Aloisi we continue to play great attacking football - with one particular moment in the second half showing maybe 5 or 6 one touch passes zigzagging up the flank from the backline into the forward line. It wasn't flashy - it was just really good controlled football. I saw O'Shea picking out a good pass to Berenguer who then picked out a good pass into the forward line. That is the sort of thing I have been waiting for as opposed to them just both being on the park together and each doing their own good things. There is something about two quality players combining that unlocks so much more of a resilient defence.

One of Hore's much better games - once again he was legless by the end but putting two away was brilliant for him. Waddingham looked dangerous again and competes for the ball physically and mentally so well. At the other end, Trewin had a huge impact as the game wore on - tireless in his effort to shut down attacking raids.

Fantastic game again from Freke, and even better; I don't think anyone had a bad game for us.

Mileusnic continues to be wayward with his shooting but works so hard in both directions and creates many chances every game. I am happy to have him in the side.

Great to be at Suncorp. Great to have the rain hold off for the whole game. Great to get such a solid win. Great to consign those ratbags from Sydney to the bottom of the table eh LFC ;)

Corica getting a yellow card was an added bonus for my ears...

Just a comment on your posting RIMB to say I appreciate the effort you go to with these long posts. Read them with interest. Don't think you're wasting your time if you're not getting responses. 

That goes for other blokes here going to a fair bit of effort with the offerings. (Won't name you all because I'd forget half of you.)

My (usual) go is an observation here, a quip there and a smart arse remark every now and then.

Cheers


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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 12:30 PM
Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 11:25 PM

Just a comment on your posting RIMB to say I appreciate the effort you go to with these long posts. Read them with interest. Don't think you're wasting your time if you're not getting responses. 

That goes for other blokes here going to a fair bit of effort with the offerings. (Won't name you all because I'd forget half of you.)

My (usual) go is an observation here, a quip there and a smart arse remark every now and then.

Cheers
Sounds like you should be a ref ;)

Thanks Muz.



When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 11:25 PM
Bloody good game to be at!

Crowd was only 7688 I think, but it looked and felt like maybe 10k or so. Den were awesome with their noise. So good to have them back in numbers at Suncorp.

Roar played really good football for the first half, decent football for the next quarter and desperate football with some quality in the final quarter. We were running out of legs for the final 15-20. Sydney did not wear their shooting boots I think it is safe to say and they did get opportunities that they failed to put away. Redders had a bit of a shocker with one miss hit kick causing a goal for us and a fumble that had him worried and scrambling.

Lolley had some chances but was kept much quieter than the last time we met. He certainly wasn't kept out of the game though. Still such a dangerous player. Most of the Sydney attack was limited by solid and energetic defence keeping pressure on.

Ryan Grant was getting really frustrated with his team's decision making in the second half. At one point he gave a pass inside into a dangerous area and after a couple of passes it came flying back his way. His grunt of disgust was audible and telling.

Under Aloisi we continue to play great attacking football - with one particular moment in the second half showing maybe 5 or 6 one touch passes zigzagging up the flank from the backline into the forward line. It wasn't flashy - it was just really good controlled football. I saw O'Shea picking out a good pass to Berenguer who then picked out a good pass into the forward line. That is the sort of thing I have been waiting for as opposed to them just both being on the park together and each doing their own good things. There is something about two quality players combining that unlocks so much more of a resilient defence.

One of Hore's much better games - once again he was legless by the end but putting two away was brilliant for him. Waddingham looked dangerous again and competes for the ball physically and mentally so well. At the other end, Trewin had a huge impact as the game wore on - tireless in his effort to shut down attacking raids.

Fantastic game again from Freke, and even better; I don't think anyone had a bad game for us.

Mileusnic continues to be wayward with his shooting but works so hard in both directions and creates many chances every game. I am happy to have him in the side.

Great to be at Suncorp. Great to have the rain hold off for the whole game. Great to get such a solid win. Great to consign those ratbags from Sydney to the bottom of the table eh LFC ;)

Corica getting a yellow card was an added bonus for my ears...

Thanks for the detailed report, RIMB.
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Kudos bud - from the first early silly goal the path set to me and then in stone by redmaynes park football show off angle footed clearance skied gift !
Pathetic at this level to see.
As much as BR was on top I think sfc was totally ineffective mostly and proving corica is way passed his use by date. 
Yep they deserve being at the bottom of the ladder.



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LFC. - 28 Oct 2023 1:44 AM
Kudos bud - from the first early silly goal the path set to me and then in stone by redmaynes park football show off angle footed clearance skied gift !
Pathetic at this level to see.
As much as BR was on top I think sfc was totally ineffective mostly and proving corica is way passed his use by date. 
Yep they deserve being at the bottom of the ladder.


Seems to me like Lolley has been your main attacking play the last two games instead of being just one effective part of your arsenal. It did not feel like you were sustaining pressure then using him as the catalyst to either break the defence or score outright.

Having said that though, plenty of times SFC were able to bring the ball easily through most of our team from deep defence into an attacking position then did not capitalise on it. Our backline have been standing up great these two games as individuals but we are still far from bulletproof. Freke in goals also had to make some excellent saves to keep you out. Won't take much to get back on top of your game.

When Wood came on you got more dangerous and he broke the line clear but had such a hideous touch trying to dribble that the ball went all the way to the keeper instead of getting him a chance. That was uncharacteristic of him.

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I don't think anyone would have predicted SFC would have conceded five and were goalless after two games. Major defensive errors in both games. We know there is plenty of quality in that squad, so for me it appeared like a lack of preparation (maybe respect) for the opponent. Corica probably needs to bench a few players next week to send a message, but I bet he won't. Like MV last week, I wouldn't say BR were necessarily great yesterday but they defended really well and capitalised on their opportunities. Kudos to RA, his approach so far has been bang on. As a neutral, it was the first time in a long time I actually watched an entire BR game. 
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someguyjc - 28 Oct 2023 9:20 AM
I don't think anyone would have predicted SFC would have conceded five and were goalless after two games. Major defensive errors in both games. We know there is plenty of quality in that squad, so for me it appeared like a lack of preparation (maybe respect) for the opponent. Corica probably needs to bench a few players next week to send a message, but I bet he won't. Like MV last week, I wouldn't say BR were necessarily great yesterday but they defended really well and capitalised on their opportunities. Kudos to RA, his approach so far has been bang on. As a neutral, it was the first time in a long time I actually watched an entire BR game. 

SFC have drawn Victory, Roar, City then Adelaide this season as their first 4 games. Previous seasons that would not have been such a bad thing but it is a pretty tough line-up this season.

Competition doesn't settle and start to balance out till about Round 5 in my eyes. That's when I think teams have settled into their season form and results start to reflect more of season prospects. Bonus points to win in the early rounds but they are just points to be held or lost across the rest of the season.

Possibly the wakeup call SFC needs this season to be stung early.

As a non-neutral it is so good to see Roar playing good and entertaining football again :)

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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If city lose tomorrow night then Friday night against Sydney could be a very interesting game 
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Wow I was expecting a draw between two good sides but Brisbane blew them out of the water. 

It’s early days but Macklin Freke has improved out of sight, definitely one of the leagues most improved players. From a Sydney perspective, I really don’t think Gomes suits their style of play at all. I know he scored that match winning brace in the Cup final but I really believe this Sydney side is better with Wood starting.

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sub007 - 28 Oct 2023 11:10 AM
Wow I was expecting a draw between two good sides but Brisbane blew them out of the water. 

It’s early days but Macklin Freke has improved out of sight, definitely one of the leagues most improved players. From a Sydney perspective, I really don’t think Gomes suits their style of play at all. I know he scored that match winning brace in the Cup final but I really believe this Sydney side is better with Wood starting.

Or play 2 upfront?
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SoccerooFan - 28 Oct 2023 3:01 PM
sub007 - 28 Oct 2023 11:10 AM

Or play 2 upfront?

You can’t really play two up front when you have two wingers who love to cut inside and shoot, it gets too congested.

Sydney would have to completely change up their front line if they are to accommodate Gomes. If I were Corica, I’d keep the attack playing as it is and just start Wood given their attack has proven it can score plenty of goals.
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Nix and Perth was a bit dire. Both sides seem to be very early in their season form - neither hitting the high points very often. Sail had a horror run in goal against his former club much like Redders yesterday - awful distribution to opposition giving away a well taken goal.

Nix playing a very slow defensive game to hold the lead from early in the first half then trying to hit fast on the counter but passing quality was not good enough to sustain anything.

Glory seeming quite unfocussed bringing the ball up but the better side generally in a comparison of two sides out of form. Williams was as effective as I have seen him in a long time and with the early injury to Ivanovic he got more of a run than usual. High crosses from Glory to Taggart when he was among tall defenders was pointless, fruitless and common.

Both sides have a lot more in them than showed in that game and either side could have won it, lost it or drawn it just as easily.

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Brook with an early double. Paramount works on laptop with VPN but not new phone. Rewind feature! Now I can see the goals I missed.
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Great first goal by Brook and good vigour to score the second. He's doing exactly what I'd hoped.
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What a bloodbath. 4:0 WSW on 38. Here's hoping WU can get a goal by 50min to give them at least the smallest of hopes.
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johnszasz - 28 Oct 2023 8:26 PM
What a bloodbath. 4:0 WSW on 38. Here's hoping WU can get a goal by 50min to give them at least the smallest of hopes.

No way, cleansheet for my boys.
 3 more goals for my boys in the second half
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Paul01 - 28 Oct 2023 8:31 PM
johnszasz - 28 Oct 2023 8:26 PM

No way, cleansheet for my boys.
 3 more goals for my boys in the second half

Yeah I was hoping for a 45 and 49 goal for WU for a bit of entertainment but they're so off the pace and WSW just solid.
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5! Good night!
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Wonder if Corica is watching this or at the Paul McCartney concert at Allianz?
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Wanderers are just playing demolition football with skill and persistence. WU chasing shadows when they can see what is happening and chasing nothing when they can't.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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I knew Brook was going to kill it this season. He has been so good for the Olyroos.
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Nothing added to the score in the second half, but Wanderers did not waste effort trying to force extra goals - which is not to say they took it easy by any means - just did not run in numbers with the effort they showed in the first half.

WU got better, there is no doubt, but they just held level with the dominant Wanderers without swinging the game their way.

I think the first half was WU showing a training pitch mentality. Wanderers committed to every challenge and tackle with their full body. WU just put a foot out and expected to win the ball. Far too many times in the first half WU would break the first line of Wanderers then pass the ball inexplicably back to their CBs and keeper when they had options to promote the ball. If they had shown trust and confidence and pushed on who knows what might have happened - but they protected the ball at the cost of any attacking movement. The final training pitch play in the first half was WU players each leaving the ball for a team mate and neither getting it - where every Wanderers player wanted the ball and took it when it came their way.

WU a team unprepared for full competitive football floundered in the first half.

Wanderers a very sharp, ruthless and composed team totally ready for business.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Predicted temp at 3pm at Gosford 26C
Both the Mariners and Macarthur played an AFC Cup game. Macarthur travelled, no Farrell for Mariners.
Probably fizzles out in a draw.

After the dismal performance by the Smurfs on Friday, the Melbourne Victory game against Newcastle might give a better gauge of true form.

Then the Adelaide v City game on at the same time as the Matildas game. City played an AFC Champions League game away midweek. Are City missing Berenguer? 
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Paul01 - 29 Oct 2023 6:36 AM
Predicted temp at 3pm at Gosford 26C
Both the Mariners and Macarthur played an AFC Cup game. Macarthur travelled, no Farrell for Mariners.
Probably fizzles out in a draw.

After the dismal performance by the Smurfs on Friday, the Melbourne Victory game against Newcastle might give a better gauge of true form.

Then the Adelaide v City game on at the same time as the Matildas game. City played an AFC Champions League game away midweek. Are City missing Berenguer? 

No longer at City, he signed with Roar.
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Winner of Adelaide v City will be the first sign of who will boss the ALeague this year.

Wanderers and Roar on their tails if a draw.

Hoping Central Coast will get points this afternoon.

Just my 1 cents worth!
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overroared - 29 Oct 2023 6:55 AM
Winner of Adelaide v City will be the first sign of who will boss the ALeague this year.

Wanderers and Roar on their tails if a draw.

Hoping Central Coast will get points this afternoon.

Just my 1 cents worth!

Wanderers might be the benchmark team to beat based on yesterday and their game in the Cup against Adelaide.

Adelaide last week were also impressive while City were off. A big game for City today to state their claim.

Shame the Tillies game clashes with Victory v Jets and Adelaide v City. Can count on the commentators to give something away and can also count on none of the games being immediately available for replay so the risk of hearing scores and spoiling games is high. Tillies and Adelaide/City are two games that I really want to watch with undivided attention.




When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 29 Oct 2023 9:37 AM
overroared - 29 Oct 2023 6:55 AM

Wanderers might be the benchmark team to beat based on yesterday and their game in the Cup against Adelaide.

Adelaide last week were also impressive while City were off. A big game for City today to state their claim.

Shame the Tillies game clashes with Victory v Jets and Adelaide v City. Can count on the commentators to give something away and can also count on none of the games being immediately available for replay so the risk of hearing scores and spoiling games is high. Tillies and Adelaide/City are two games that I really want to watch with undivided attention.



You need a split screen!
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Paul01 - 29 Oct 2023 11:04 AM
Roar in me Blood - 29 Oct 2023 9:37 AM

You need a split screen!

How can I agonise over every misdirected pass appropriately if I am watching the other side of the screen?

One day I will be brave and try it.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 29 Oct 2023 1:54 PM
Paul01 - 29 Oct 2023 11:04 AM

How can I agonise over every misdirected pass appropriately if I am watching the other side of the screen?

One day I will be brave and try it.

Or screen in screen
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Mariners vs bull is a bit of a arm wrestle 
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Melbcityguy - 29 Oct 2023 3:19 PM
Mariners vs bull is a bit of a arm wrestle 

Bulls get the win but only after a late scare and accompanying pressure.

It was not a pleasant game. There was a lot of niggle, a lot of frustration and lot of contended (as opposed to contentious) decisions. Officials had people in their faces all game. A game made for Faghani - shame he had already done his shift with us.

Macarthur the slightly better team overall came away with the win, but it would have taken so little to be a draw. Mariners with a tendency to turn back to their own goal on receipt of the ball cost them with some balls getting nicked off them leaving Bulls goal side with possession and other times just negating attacking moves.

Both sides look like needing a couple more weeks to get players back and gel properly.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Bloody hell. 10 minutes typing and reading and I have missed 2 goals in Victory v Jets.

When I wear their colours, I am the club.

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Roar in me Blood - 29 Oct 2023 5:11 PM
Bloody hell. 10 minutes typing and reading and I have missed 2 goals in Victory v Jets.

All 4 to Fornaroli
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One of the worst VAR decisions known to man.
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Great free kick goal by Irankunda and nice trailing leg save by Gauci. 
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What a nice weekend of football. Lots of young locals scoring good goals. Some thrashings which bring out talking points.

Just love what Adelaide do. Seems a happy place to play football. 
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Year after year Adelaide are a pleasure to watch. Veart is doing a terrific job. 
The latest Toure looks the real deal. 

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Haha that was crazy!!! I love watching Adelaide play with all of their young kids coming through!!! 
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Sadly the law of diminishing returns that characterised Vidosic at the Brisbane appears to be in the evidence again. Will be surprised if he's still in the job by game 6 



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charlied - 29 Oct 2023 9:09 PM
Sadly the law of diminishing returns that characterised Vidosic at the Brisbane appears to be in the evidence again. Will be surprised if he's still in the job by game 6 



I like Rado but this team gets done for 6 in a grand final and gets done for 6 again so soon….very unusual.
What are city players playing for?
Doesn’t appear to be the jersey…poor, very poor…

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Jimo8 - 29 Oct 2023 9:14 PM
charlied - 29 Oct 2023 9:09 PM

I like Rado but this team gets done for 6 in a grand final and gets done for 6 again so soon….very unusual.
What are city players playing for?
Doesn’t appear to be the jersey…poor, very poor…

It was the same at Brisbane - he seemed unable to motivate players. 
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There will be an impressive Roos team in the 3-4th years.
I've been playing and watching the game for more years than I like to admit and this is the most exciting group of young players, across the  comp,that I've seen. 
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There's not many us on this site these days, but right now I feel more optimistic about the A League than I have done for many years.
So many exciting young players. 
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charlied - 29 Oct 2023 9:21 PM
There's not many us on this site these days, but right now I feel more optimistic about the A League than I have done for many years.
So many exciting young players. 

After so many underwhelming years ive haven't seen so many young players break through as far as I can remember from being in this forum back in the early years.

Very encouraging...
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Barca4Life - 29 Oct 2023 11:48 PM
charlied - 29 Oct 2023 9:21 PM

After so many underwhelming years ive haven't seen so many young players break through as far as I can remember from being in this forum back in the early years.

Very encouraging...

Said this before but Fox losing interest in the league and the reduced salary cap has been great. Loads of young blokes in every team and the 36 year old overpaid journeymen are scarce on the ground. Win win.


Member since 2008.


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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 10:05 AM
Barca4Life - 29 Oct 2023 11:48 PM

Said this before but Fox losing interest in the league and the reduced salary cap has been great. Loads of young blokes in every team and the 36 year old overpaid journeymen are scarce on the ground. Win win.

I think prior to covid the average age of the ALM was one of the oldest in the Asian Confederation, 27.2 or close to that now it’s a lot different and it makes a big difference in terms of product that’s on the pitch.

I haven’t enjoyed the league for quite while because it’s so refreshing to see.



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Barca4Life - 30 Oct 2023 12:17 PM
Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 10:05 AM

I think prior to covid the average age of the ALM was one of the oldest in the Asian Confederation, 27.2 or close to that now it’s a lot different and it makes a big difference in terms of product that’s on the pitch.

I haven’t enjoyed the league for quite while because it’s so refreshing to see.

Also great not having the distractions of the 'big name' marquees this season. 
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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 10:05 AM
Barca4Life - 29 Oct 2023 11:48 PM

Said this before but Fox losing interest in the league and the reduced salary cap has been great. Loads of young blokes in every team and the 36 year old overpaid journeymen are scarce on the ground. Win win.

Good to read this.
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I just hope Leckie and Behich will make way for the next gen. Irankunda is gold and G Kuol is coming on nicely. Despite the positivity, there will be those who won't make the grade in the end. Seeing Antonis and Pasquali named on team sheets this weekend is evident of that.
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johnszasz - 29 Oct 2023 10:11 PM
I just hope Leckie and Behich will make way for the next gen. Irankunda is gold and G Kuol is coming on nicely. Despite the positivity, there will be those who won't make the grade in the end. Seeing Antonis and Pasquali named on team sheets this weekend is evident of that.

At this rate Leckie and Behich aren’t even going to make ACup squad?! Goodwin still worthy atm. Irankunda could end up in Epl in few years. Bos is better than Behich now too. Next WCup should be very different squad
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Balin Trev - 29 Oct 2023 10:41 PM
johnszasz - 29 Oct 2023 10:11 PM

At this rate Leckie and Behich aren’t even going to make ACup squad?! Goodwin still worthy atm. Irankunda could end up in Epl in few years. Bos is better than Behich now too. Next WCup should be very different squad

I'd forgo both anyway. I like Lewis Miller yet I like what Arnold is doing. He can pick Rowles and Degenek in the squad and they are the immediate covers for RB and LB. I'd just name Strain and Bos and then the 5 CB. This will allow a lot more for midfield and attack.
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It's pretty overwhelming now going through all the names of exciting prospects. Working out their ages and potential pathways. Just so much going on.

At a glance some could still be eligible for the next 3 Olympics, an abundance for the U20 and in turn a couple of U23 Asian Cups too.
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johnszasz - 29 Oct 2023 10:19 PM
It's pretty overwhelming now going through all the names of exciting prospects. Working out their ages and potential pathways. Just so much going on.

At a glance some could still be eligible for the next 3 Olympics, an abundance for the U20 and in turn a couple of U23 Asian Cups too.

Then if/when the NST is up and running in 6 months time, there could be a couple of hundred more players training and playing at the fully professional level. Competition for NT spots is going to become very interesting. 
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someguyjc - 29 Oct 2023 10:48 PM
johnszasz - 29 Oct 2023 10:19 PM

Then if/when the NST is up and running in 6 months time, there could be a couple of hundred more players training and playing at the fully professional level. Competition for NT spots is going to become very interesting. 

I think next season we will see massive player movement for u23's to Europe. We will have the most players playing in Europe then we have ever had before and mostly being u23. At that point NT selection will have to be way more strict than it has been for the past decade. Won't just come down to minutes in Europe, it'll be quality of minutes and quality of competition first and foremost. Exciting times. 
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bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM
someguyjc - 29 Oct 2023 10:48 PM

I think next season we will see massive player movement for u23's to Europe. We will have the most players playing in Europe then we have ever had before and mostly being u23. At that point NT selection will have to be way more strict than it has been for the past decade. Won't just come down to minutes in Europe, it'll be quality of minutes and quality of competition first and foremost. Exciting times. 

12 goals scored this week by u23's unreal. Has to be a record!
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bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM
bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM

12 goals scored this week by u23's unreal. Has to be a record!

On the flipside, 7 goals inside 15 minutes and most of them inside 10. Only one game was scoreless at halftime.

Despite the quality of the attacking players and teamwork this season I have to question how rusty defenders are against top quality attacks this early. Must be some settling in required by rejigged backlines or something. Some of course are already strong and working - just seems too many early goals for professional defensive groups. Maybe they just have to have a few rounds to see where teams' strengths are and counter that.




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Roar in me Blood - 30 Oct 2023 9:27 AM
bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM
bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM

12 goals scored this week by u23's unreal. Has to be a record!

On the flipside, 7 goals inside 15 minutes and most of them inside 10. Only one game was scoreless at halftime.

Despite the quality of the attacking players and teamwork this season I have to question how rusty defenders are against top quality attacks this early. Must be some settling in required by rejigged backlines or something. Some of course are already strong and working - just seems too many early goals for professional defensive groups. Maybe they just have to have a few rounds to see where teams' strengths are and counter that.

I also think if you look at the winning clubs so far, their approach has been far more attack focused compared to previous seasons. The A-League is typically slow going in the early rounds, with many teams often choosing to sit back and not take too many risks. Combine that with a bunch of defensive errors and it's no wonder the ball hit the back of the net 28 times this round.
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Don't think there were any games tonight I was hmm let's watching the Matildas yes that will do 
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Can't the remember the last time I thoroughly enjoyed a match day especially today's matches.

Great goals, back flips which would score high points in the Olympic Gymnastics, great young talent who had great impact for their teams.

Very enjoyable, look what happens when you just let the football do the talking you create great moments.

Brisbane played a great brand of football on Friday night, Brook and Milanovic were very good for WSW, Bruno Fornaroli was at he's vintage best, Clayton Taylor a new prospect for Newcastle previously at Sydney FC's academy did very well he should have had a hattrick if not for VAR getting in the way and Adelaide's youngsters were excellent.
Irankunda is a world class talent enough said that free kick was ridiculous...
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Some great goals on the weekend. Fornaroli's rabona was a gem and what about Irakunda's?

The kid is on fire. There's nothing he can't do. Great crowd in too.


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I agree with most, so excited about the football this weekend especially the young players that are performing at a very mature level.
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robbos - 30 Oct 2023 10:18 AM
I agree with most, so excited about the football this weekend especially the young players that are performing at a very mature level.

I watched the WU vs WSW game on the weekend (well the first half and some of the second) and that Brook lads strike to open the scoring was EPL level... a peach of a hit... 

That left back Clisby seems like he can cross the ball on a dime, he seems fairly old though, was he never good enough to get a Soceroos callup when he was younger?
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Monoethnic Social Club - 30 Oct 2023 10:57 AM
robbos - 30 Oct 2023 10:18 AM

I watched the WU vs WSW game on the weekend (well the first half and some of the second) and that Brook lads strike to open the scoring was EPL level... a peach of a hit... 

That left back Clisby seems like he can cross the ball on a dime, he seems fairly old though, was he never good enough to get a Soceroos callup when he was younger?

Clisby has always had too much mongrel I think. My memories of him are hacking his opponents regularly. Maybe I misremember with the passage of time...

His delivery was real quality on the weekend.

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Monoethnic Social Club - 30 Oct 2023 10:57 AM
robbos - 30 Oct 2023 10:18 AM

I watched the WU vs WSW game on the weekend (well the first half and some of the second) and that Brook lads strike to open the scoring was EPL level... a peach of a hit... 

That left back Clisby seems like he can cross the ball on a dime, he seems fairly old though, was he never good enough to get a Soceroos callup when he was younger?

Clisby was battling for quite a bit of his early career to  maintain a starting berth. He played a bit as a CB for a while. Haven't sen him play much over the last few years, but earlier in his career never thought he was anywhere near Socceroo selection.

Players can have a purple patch in form late in their  career though - like Ogger did.
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Has there been any word as to why the Jets goal was disallowed, the one that came off the Melbourne player?

I cannot understand how it was not awarded. Add to that it took the VAR a very long time to not award it and I cannot understand why.

One of the hardest things about the league struggling is that there is little to no commentary or insights into these things.  No panel discussions, no media interest, no one is asking the question and getting answers. The commentary at the time, and during the whole game, was atrocious.  That was a significant moment in the game, and there were many others, that the commentary team just seemed to ignore or brush off. I am not sure if their voices are just not suited to commentary, but they added no excitement to the game and instead detracted from what actually was an exciting game.

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Song - 30 Oct 2023 1:41 PM
Has there been any word as to why the Jets goal was disallowed, the one that came off the Melbourne player?

I cannot understand how it was not awarded. Add to that it took the VAR a very long time to not award it and I cannot understand why.

One of the hardest things about the league struggling is that there is little to no commentary or insights into these things.  No panel discussions, no media interest, no one is asking the question and getting answers. The commentary at the time, and during the whole game, was atrocious.  That was a significant moment in the game, and there were many others, that the commentary team just seemed to ignore or brush off. I am not sure if their voices are just not suited to commentary, but they added no excitement to the game and instead detracted from what actually was an exciting game.

Took me a while to find this and I have to agree. (About 68.30 minute mark. Commentator says he's offside whilst watching the replay.)

I can only assume the AR thought the Jets player next to the Victory player passes the ball to #8 Jets . To me it looks like the Victory bloke kicked it away and it went straight to the Jets bloke #8. In referee parlance he has 'deliberately played it' so it should have been play on.

Poor decision there. Particularly after VAR had a chance to review it.

Both commentators then say it should have been a goal. (Good to hear both pundits actually knew and quoted the law.)

Baffling.

https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/a-league-men/video/MkebeoaZY_FSjoP_Modjc8GV5Ah5v_mf/full-match-replay-melbourne-victory-vs-newcastle-jets/

https://melbournevictory.com.au/news/mens-match-report-fornaroli-shines-in-thrilling-victory-homecoming





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2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 3:15 PM
Song - 30 Oct 2023 1:41 PM

Took me a while to find this and I have to agree. (About 68.30 minute mark. Commentator says he's offside whilst watching the replay.)

I can only assume the AR thought the Jets player next to the Victory player passes the ball to #8 Jets . To me it looks like the Victory bloke kicked it away and it went straight to the Jets bloke #8. In referee parlance he has 'deliberately played it' so it should have been play on.

Poor decision there. Particularly after VAR had a chance to review it.

Both commentators then say it should have been a goal. (Good to hear both pundits actually knew and quoted the law.)

Baffling.

https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/a-league-men/video/MkebeoaZY_FSjoP_Modjc8GV5Ah5v_mf/full-match-replay-melbourne-victory-vs-newcastle-jets/

https://melbournevictory.com.au/news/mens-match-report-fornaroli-shines-in-thrilling-victory-homecoming



Is it possible the touch from Buhagiar was deemed directly at goal and therefore the Victory player blocking that did not bring the offside Jets player into play?

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Roar in me Blood - 30 Oct 2023 4:35 PM
Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 3:15 PM

Is it possible the touch from Buhagiar was deemed directly at goal and therefore the Victory player blocking that did not bring the offside Jets player into play?

Yeah that's grasping at straws though. You'd have to argue the Victory bloke 'blocked it' and 'didn't play it'. Can't understand the logic by the VAR.

Here's some IFAB guidance if you're interested.  https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/

There's more there but here's an excerpt. (There's some good videos down the bottom of examples.)

No change to Law 11 is necessary but, to reflect football’s expectation, the guidelines for distinguishing between ‘deliberate play’ and ‘deflection’ are clarified as follows:

‘Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

  • passing the ball to a team-mate; or
  • gaining possession of the ball; or
  • clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).

If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air




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2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Song - 30 Oct 2023 1:41 PM
Has there been any word as to why the Jets goal was disallowed, the one that came off the Melbourne player?

I cannot understand how it was not awarded. Add to that it took the VAR a very long time to not award it and I cannot understand why.

One of the hardest things about the league struggling is that there is little to no commentary or insights into these things.  No panel discussions, no media interest, no one is asking the question and getting answers. The commentary at the time, and during the whole game, was atrocious.  That was a significant moment in the game, and there were many others, that the commentary team just seemed to ignore or brush off. I am not sure if their voices are just not suited to commentary, but they added no excitement to the game and instead detracted from what actually was an exciting game.

I posted something similar on Reddit. The incident isn't even in Paramount's mini match edit, despite causing a substantial VAR delay. Lucky I went to the game or I may not have known it even happened. Surely a little panel discussion is not too much to ask for? 
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Off topic but who would have predicted Melb City would be bottom of table after 2 games with only 1 goal scored and 8 goals against?!! City will probably bounce back but it’s great for the league 

So glad AL isn’t like Spfl etc where it’s the same 2 clubs always in 1st and 2nd place

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Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM
Off topic but who would have predicted Melb City would be bottom of table after 2 games with only 1 goal scored and 8 goals against?!! City will probably bounce back but it’s great for the league 

So glad AL isn’t like Spfl etc where it’s the same 2 clubs always in 1st and 2nd place

So glad SPL isn’t like AL where it’s the same 12 clubs always 
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numklpkgulftumch - 30 Oct 2023 5:48 PM
Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM

So glad SPL isn’t like AL where it’s the same 12 clubs always 

P/R makes no difference in Spfl - it’s just celtic and rangers vs the rest 😴😴😴
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Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM
Off topic but who would have predicted Melb City would be bottom of table after 2 games with only 1 goal scored and 8 goals against?!! City will probably bounce back but it’s great for the league 

So glad AL isn’t like Spfl etc where it’s the same 2 clubs always in 1st and 2nd place

The SPFL lives rent free in your head.
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SUTHERLANDBEAR - 30 Oct 2023 11:17 PM
Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM

The SPFL lives rent free in your head.

Nah. Overall it’s been a good stepping stone league for some Aussie players like Viduka, G Kuol, possibly Baccus, etc. 
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Wow what a win!

If you ever need an example to prove that you don’t need to win the possession battle to win games, yesterday was a prime example. Adelaide were so clinical and ruthless in the final third while City for all of their possession dominance, created very few good opportunities and most of their xG was from the penalty. 

Our defence is so much stronger than last year which is a real positive sign, despite not making a single defensive signing. Carl had changed the way we defend whilst having Ansell back fit also helps.

The way we attack had also changed, with more focus on playing through the middle whereas last season, we mainly played out wide to get the most out of Goodwin. While this approach helped Goodwin (and by extension the team), it made a number of our other attackers less effective. As we are now playing through the middle more, it has bought more players into the game more with the likes of Clough and Halloran looking a lot more dangerous than last season. 
This tactical change and the quality of the other players at the club is the reason why we are able to be so successful so far.

And finally its great to see Bernardo back firing and congratulations to Musa Toure and Ryan Tunnicliffe for scoring their first goals for the club.

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sub007 - 30 Oct 2023 11:01 PM
Wow what a win!

If you ever need an example to prove that you don’t need to win the possession battle to win games, yesterday was a prime example. Adelaide were so clinical and ruthless in the final third while City for all of their possession dominance, created very few good opportunities and most of their xG was from the penalty. 

Our defence is so much stronger than last year which is a real positive sign, despite not making a single defensive signing. Carl had changed the way we defend whilst having Ansell back fit also helps.

The way we attack had also changed, with more focus on playing through the middle whereas last season, we mainly played out wide to get the most out of Goodwin. While this approach helped Goodwin (and by extension the team), it made a number of our other attackers less effective. As we are now playing through the middle more, it has bought more players into the game more with the likes of Clough and Halloran looking a lot more dangerous than last season. 
This tactical change and the quality of the other players at the club is the reason why we are able to be so successful so far.

And finally its great to see Bernardo back firing and congratulations to Musa Toure and Ryan Tunnicliffe for scoring their first goals for the club.

Informative post.
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I don't understand why there isn't a referee's report published for each game. I'm sure the information is documented, just publish it online somewhere. At least then the public has some form of understanding around certain decisions.
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someguyjc - 31 Oct 2023 11:18 AM
I don't understand why there isn't a referee's report published for each game. I'm sure the information is documented, just publish it online somewhere. At least then the public has some form of understanding around certain decisions.

The MLS release all their VAR with an explanation each round.

An A league version would be good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzMtuv4325g


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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Meant to say clip 7 of that IFAB link is from the Australia Peru game in Russia.

https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/

It was 'play on' in that match as it was deemed 'deliberately played' before they clarified the what was and wasn't. Under the new guidance the Peruvian fella would have been offside.

And then they wouldn't have scored and Arzani would have came on and we would've won 2-1 and been through to the next round. 

Fucking IFAB.

Just googling that match I notice FIFA are putting up full match replays from past tournaments. How good. 

https://www.plus.fifa.com/en/player/2c3a0df6-5348-4304-86bf-d094f0254eb0?catalogId=b053c1ac-eec2-4b04-8847-5815953648fc&entryPoint=Slider


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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 11:22 AM
Meant to say clip 7 of that IFAB link is from the Australia Peru game in Russia.

https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/

It was 'play on' in that match as it was deemed 'deliberately played' before they clarified the what was and wasn't. Under the new guidance the Peruvian fella would have been offside.

And then they wouldn't have scored and Arzani would have came on and we would've won 2-1 and been through to the next round. 

Fucking IFAB.

Just googling that match I notice FIFA are putting up full match replays from past tournaments. How good. 

https://www.plus.fifa.com/en/player/2c3a0df6-5348-4304-86bf-d094f0254eb0?catalogId=b053c1ac-eec2-4b04-8847-5815953648fc&entryPoint=Slider

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."

Thanks Muz. I will have a look at the references you have added.

In the meantime, the quote I have added is the one above your original quote from your link. 'Deliberately' playing the ball is what your post talked about but the underlined part is the part I would expect them to have applied - that it was a deliberate save attempt by the Victory player. It would make sense of the lengthy VAR review while they decided if the Victory intervention did count as a save.

As always I acknowledge my ignorance happily and cannot say if the goal should or should not have stood - I just like trying to see where the decision might have come from when it appears inexplicable.

The more I learn the less I know seems to fit football spectating very well...


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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 11:36 AM
Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 11:22 AM

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."

Thanks Muz. I will have a look at the references you have added.

In the meantime, the quote I have added is the one above your original quote from your link. 'Deliberately' playing the ball is what your post talked about but the underlined part is the part I would expect them to have applied - that it was a deliberate save attempt by the Victory player. It would make sense of the lengthy VAR review while they decided if the Victory intervention did count as a save.

As always I acknowledge my ignorance happily and cannot say if the goal should or should not have stood - I just like trying to see where the decision might have come from when it appears inexplicable.

The more I learn the less I know seems to fit football spectating very well...

'Deliberate save' is generally applied to the goalkeeper who might parry the ball to an attacker in an offside position. A 'deliberate save' doesn't reset the offside so that's why that's in there.

It does say 'opponent' rather than GK to cover all players. To me that wasn't a 'save' by the Victory bloke. For starters it wasn't instinctive. Secondly he had time and opportunity to change his body shape and kick it away so that should be that.

Pretty much 3 out of 5 of these have been met. (bolded.) Note you do not need to meet all 5.  

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:
  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air





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At first glance Clip 5 looks the closest to how it played out except there is no touch by another attacker before the defender plays it, there was time to see it coming so it is a deliberate play at the ball, and the pass in was not on goal (so no question of a save involved).

Watching the replays again after seeing the IFAB clips I cannot imagine the feeble touch Buhagiar made on the ball would count as a shot on goal which makes Nigro's contact less likely to be considered a save.

Maybe they considered Nigro's action an 'instinctive reaction' in sticking out a foot or even an 'unexpected ball' given it came from an obvious mishandle by Buhagiar. I am going with a bit each way - Nigro could not have expected anyone to stuff up as much as Buhagiar did and instinctively struck out at the unexpected ball. In the game context there was no time to think after Buhagiar's mishandle so it is not too far off in principle - just a reflex foot stuck out.


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I just saw your post about body shape and non-instinctive. All I can say is that VAR may have considered it 'instinctive' in the end and that is what took them so long to decide.

Happy to understand it more and leave it at that - unless we get lucky and an explanation is offered.

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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 12:24 PM
I just saw your post about body shape and non-instinctive. All I can say is that VAR may have considered it 'instinctive' in the end and that is what took them so long to decide.

Happy to understand it more and leave it at that - unless we get lucky and an explanation is offered.

Yeah that's fair.

I'd like an explanation myself from the VAR blokes even if it was 'we were wrong'. And if not then I'd learn something.

These discussions are good though because you can download the IFAB laws of the game and none of this 'guidance' stuff is in there unless you know where to look. 

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Had a late thought (not deliberate - just came to me I am afraid).

VAR can only overturn clear and obvious errors.

I think the assistant simply missed the Victory contact and flagged offside, which was accepted and called by the onfield ref.

VAR looked at it and decided that it could be argued on some level that it was a combination of reflexive and instinctive reaction to the bumbling of Buhagiar by Nigro, could possibly have been called 'not deliberate' and therefore not a clear and obvious error. Ref and assistant got it wrong on one set of facts, VAR upheld it on a loose interpretation of other facts. Best result would have been show the ref the video with Nigro's contact and he probably would have overturned it himself.

Nothing new to learn for refs. Something new to learn in the VAR box about giving the ref the info to review their own decision. If the ref had called it a goal VAR would have upheld that decision too.

I can sleep with that.

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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM
Had a late thought (not deliberate - just came to me I am afraid).

VAR can only overturn clear and obvious errors.

I think the assistant simply missed the Victory contact and flagged offside, which was accepted and called by the onfield ref.

VAR looked at it and decided that it could be argued on some level that it was a combination of reflexive and instinctive reaction to the bumbling of Buhagiar by Nigro, could possibly have been called 'not deliberate' and therefore not a clear and obvious error. Ref and assistant got it wrong on one set of facts, VAR upheld it on a loose interpretation of other facts. Best result would have been show the ref the video with Nigro's contact and he probably would have overturned it himself.

Nothing new to learn for refs. Something new to learn in the VAR box about giving the ref the info to review their own decision. If the ref had called it a goal VAR would have upheld that decision too.

I can sleep with that.

Thanks for the explanation. During the game I could not help thinking that the decision was so poor, and after so many looks at it, that I must be missing something. The commentators simply said it should have been a goal and seem to ignore it from then on. It would be nice to have better coverage to get some sort of explanation. 

And as a side point, the quality of the commentators really hurts the A-League in my opinion. That was an exciting game at 5-3, yet the commentators were quite dull and boring. There were some big calls and controversial moments, which just seemed to pass by with little drama or excitement. The commentators are there to held build the drama of the event. These things actually matter and present an image to the less committed viewer.  
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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM
Had a late thought (not deliberate - just came to me I am afraid).

VAR can only overturn clear and obvious errors.

I think the assistant simply missed the Victory contact and flagged offside, which was accepted and called by the onfield ref.

VAR looked at it and decided that it could be argued on some level that it was a combination of reflexive and instinctive reaction to the bumbling of Buhagiar by Nigro, could possibly have been called 'not deliberate' and therefore not a clear and obvious error. Ref and assistant got it wrong on one set of facts, VAR upheld it on a loose interpretation of other facts. Best result would have been show the ref the video with Nigro's contact and he probably would have overturned it himself.

Nothing new to learn for refs. Something new to learn in the VAR box about giving the ref the info to review their own decision. If the ref had called it a goal VAR would have upheld that decision too.

I can sleep with that.

This is what I said initially.

This is also why they tell the AR's to delay their calls for offside. If he flagged before the ball was crossed then yes I agree that could have played out like you said.

If he raised it after then it should have been allowed.

It'd be interesting to see when old mate the lino lifted his flag.


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Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 1:42 PM
Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM

This is what I said initially.

This is also why they tell the AR's to delay their calls for offside. If he flagged before the ball was crossed then yes I agree that could have played out like you said.

If he raised it after then it should have been allowed.

It'd be interesting to see when old mate the lino lifted his flag.

It is where the VAR role goes so wrong in my opinion.

I am running with the ref thinking only Jets touched the ball. If VAR ruled on what the ref used for his decision they must have said onside after Nigro's touch.

If the ref had called it a goal they wouldn't have overturned it (I am sure of that), so the error cannot have been clear and obvious. The only clear and obvious error to me was that the ref missed the Victory touch.


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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM
Had a late thought (not deliberate - just came to me I am afraid).

VAR can only overturn clear and obvious errors.

I think the assistant simply missed the Victory contact and flagged offside, which was accepted and called by the onfield ref.

VAR looked at it and decided that it could be argued on some level that it was a combination of reflexive and instinctive reaction to the bumbling of Buhagiar by Nigro, could possibly have been called 'not deliberate' and therefore not a clear and obvious error. Ref and assistant got it wrong on one set of facts, VAR upheld it on a loose interpretation of other facts. Best result would have been show the ref the video with Nigro's contact and he probably would have overturned it himself.

Nothing new to learn for refs. Something new to learn in the VAR box about giving the ref the info to review their own decision. If the ref had called it a goal VAR would have upheld that decision too.

I can sleep with that.

I thought offside was considered to be a matter of fact rather than an interpretation, and so not covered by the clear and obvious error scenario that is considered (although sometimes it appears to be only when it suits!) for things like fouls and handballs. For example, if someone is offside by 1 cm then they are still offside, even though a decision that close could be considered not to be a clear and obvious error.
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Keeper66 - 31 Oct 2023 4:49 PM
Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM

I thought offside was considered to be a matter of fact rather than an interpretation, and so not covered by the clear and obvious error scenario that is considered (although sometimes it appears to be only when it suits!) for things like fouls and handballs. For example, if someone is offside by 1 cm then they are still offside, even though a decision that close could be considered not to be a clear and obvious error.

The line is black and white for where offside is drawn I agree. But the parts where a player in a clear offside position may or may not actually be considered offside based on their impact, involvement and advantage on the play before they may be played onside by an opponent is far too subjective.

For a ref on the run to adjudicate on multiple points about the 'deliberate' playing of a ball, on top of every other moving part in the melee, is clearly going to result in decisions based on their experience, their refs (brain) muscle memory, their feel for what is happening in that moment - and they are going to make a judgement. That to me is a valid judgement whatever decision is made as it represents what they see in that moment. For VAR to try to introduce fact into that is impossible - there will always be two sides to every involvement when the question is about reflex, reaction, expectation and the like. VAR must always support the refs initial decision in that because it cannot find a clear and obvious error in a subjective decision. The only thing VAR can adjudge clearly is information like we saw in Victory v Jets - who touched it last and who was in a potential offside position physically at that moment.

I don't know all the limitations on VAR involvement and powers, but to me VAR should have looked at the footage, noticed that Nigro touched the ball last and not Buhagiar, then advised the onfield ref to review the footage and see if that changes what he thought he saw. VAR is right to identify the Jets player up front as potentially offside - that is the end of its black and white role and as such really the end of its decision making role. Drawing attention to the Nigro touch would allow the ref to make an informed decision as it may have been a clear and obvious error that the ref missed it. Ref can stick or change depending on whether that was a key factor in his decision. The end result is still the refs call and therefore the right one with all the relevant information. The subjective side cannot be ruled on by VAR - they are not the one making all the other onfield calls in that game so their 'opinion' is irrelevant. That to me is why VAR upheld the refs call when their decision should have been to call him over to look - instead of actually deciding it.

As a side point, I do acknowledge the validity of the opinion I have read in here many times - if they are not gaining any advantage by being offside then why are they standing there...?

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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 5:30 PM
Keeper66 - 31 Oct 2023 4:49 PM

The line is black and white for where offside is drawn I agree. But the parts where a player in a clear offside position may or may not actually be considered offside based on their impact, involvement and advantage on the play before they may be played onside by an opponent is far too subjective.

For a ref on the run to adjudicate on multiple points about the 'deliberate' playing of a ball, on top of every other moving part in the melee, is clearly going to result in decisions based on their experience, their refs (brain) muscle memory, their feel for what is happening in that moment - and they are going to make a judgement. That to me is a valid judgement whatever decision is made as it represents what they see in that moment. For VAR to try to introduce fact into that is impossible - there will always be two sides to every involvement when the question is about reflex, reaction, expectation and the like. VAR must always support the refs initial decision in that because it cannot find a clear and obvious error in a subjective decision. The only thing VAR can adjudge clearly is information like we saw in Victory v Jets - who touched it last and who was in a potential offside position physically at that moment.

I don't know all the limitations on VAR involvement and powers, but to me VAR should have looked at the footage, noticed that Nigro touched the ball last and not Buhagiar, then advised the onfield ref to review the footage and see if that changes what he thought he saw. VAR is right to identify the Jets player up front as potentially offside - that is the end of its black and white role and as such really the end of its decision making role. Drawing attention to the Nigro touch would allow the ref to make an informed decision as it may have been a clear and obvious error that the ref missed it. Ref can stick or change depending on whether that was a key factor in his decision. The end result is still the refs call and therefore the right one with all the relevant information. The subjective side cannot be ruled on by VAR - they are not the one making all the other onfield calls in that game so their 'opinion' is irrelevant. That to me is why VAR upheld the refs call when their decision should have been to call him over to look - instead of actually deciding it.

As a side point, I do acknowledge the validity of the opinion I have read in here many times - if they are not gaining any advantage by being offside then why are they standing there...?

It is reported in the Newcastle Herald today that the referee's boss told the Jets on Tuesday that the decision was wrong.

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Song - 2 Nov 2023 9:31 AM
Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 5:30 PM

It is reported in the Newcastle Herald today that the referee's boss told the Jets on Tuesday that the decision was wrong.

There you go.


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Munrubenmuz - 2 Nov 2023 10:31 AM
Song - 2 Nov 2023 9:31 AM

There you go.

Nothing new to learn here then :)

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                                                             + x [quote] [b] sub007 - 30 Oct 2023 11:01 PM [/b]...
Decentric 2 - 2 Years Ago
                                                         I don't understand why there isn't a referee's report published for...
someguyjc - 2 Years Ago
                                                             + x [quote] [b] someguyjc - 31 Oct 2023 11:18 AM [/b]...
Munrubenmuz - 2 Years Ago
                                                         Meant to say clip 7 of that IFAB link is from the Australia Peru game...
Munrubenmuz - 2 Years Ago
                                                             + x [quote] [b] Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 11:22 AM [/b]...
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago
                                                                 + x [quote] [b] Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 11:36 AM...
Munrubenmuz - 2 Years Ago
                                                         At first glance Clip 5 looks the closest to how it played out except...
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago
                                                         I just saw your post about body shape and non-instinctive. All I can...
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago
                                                             + x [quote] [b] Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 12:24 PM...
Munrubenmuz - 2 Years Ago
                                                         Had a late thought (not deliberate - just came to me I am afraid)....
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago
                                                             + x [quote] [b] Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM...
Song - 2 Years Ago
                                                             + x [quote] [b] Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM...
Munrubenmuz - 2 Years Ago
                                                                 + x [quote] [b] Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 1:42 PM [/b]...
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago
                                                             + x [quote] [b] Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 1:02 PM...
Keeper66 - 2 Years Ago
                                                                 + x [quote] [b] Keeper66 - 31 Oct 2023 4:49 PM [/b]...
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago
                                                                     + x [quote] [b] Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 5:30 PM...
Song - 2 Years Ago
                                                                         + x [quote] [b] Song - 2 Nov 2023 9:31 AM [/b] +...
Munrubenmuz - 2 Years Ago
                                                                             + x [quote] [b] Munrubenmuz - 2 Nov 2023 10:31 AM [/b]...
Roar in me Blood - 2 Years Ago


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