A-League Mens - Round 2


A-League Mens - Round 2

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Muz
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Some great goals on the weekend. Fornaroli's rabona was a gem and what about Irakunda's?

The kid is on fire. There's nothing he can't do. Great crowd in too.


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Barca4Life - 29 Oct 2023 11:48 PM
charlied - 29 Oct 2023 9:21 PM

After so many underwhelming years ive haven't seen so many young players break through as far as I can remember from being in this forum back in the early years.

Very encouraging...

Said this before but Fox losing interest in the league and the reduced salary cap has been great. Loads of young blokes in every team and the 36 year old overpaid journeymen are scarce on the ground. Win win.


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Roar in me Blood - 30 Oct 2023 9:27 AM
bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM
bbouy - 30 Oct 2023 1:36 AM

12 goals scored this week by u23's unreal. Has to be a record!

On the flipside, 7 goals inside 15 minutes and most of them inside 10. Only one game was scoreless at halftime.

Despite the quality of the attacking players and teamwork this season I have to question how rusty defenders are against top quality attacks this early. Must be some settling in required by rejigged backlines or something. Some of course are already strong and working - just seems too many early goals for professional defensive groups. Maybe they just have to have a few rounds to see where teams' strengths are and counter that.

I also think if you look at the winning clubs so far, their approach has been far more attack focused compared to previous seasons. The A-League is typically slow going in the early rounds, with many teams often choosing to sit back and not take too many risks. Combine that with a bunch of defensive errors and it's no wonder the ball hit the back of the net 28 times this round.
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I agree with most, so excited about the football this weekend especially the young players that are performing at a very mature level.
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robbos - 30 Oct 2023 10:18 AM
I agree with most, so excited about the football this weekend especially the young players that are performing at a very mature level.

I watched the WU vs WSW game on the weekend (well the first half and some of the second) and that Brook lads strike to open the scoring was EPL level... a peach of a hit... 

That left back Clisby seems like he can cross the ball on a dime, he seems fairly old though, was he never good enough to get a Soceroos callup when he was younger?
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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 10:05 AM
Barca4Life - 29 Oct 2023 11:48 PM

Said this before but Fox losing interest in the league and the reduced salary cap has been great. Loads of young blokes in every team and the 36 year old overpaid journeymen are scarce on the ground. Win win.

I think prior to covid the average age of the ALM was one of the oldest in the Asian Confederation, 27.2 or close to that now it’s a lot different and it makes a big difference in terms of product that’s on the pitch.

I haven’t enjoyed the league for quite while because it’s so refreshing to see.



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Barca4Life - 30 Oct 2023 12:17 PM
Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 10:05 AM

I think prior to covid the average age of the ALM was one of the oldest in the Asian Confederation, 27.2 or close to that now it’s a lot different and it makes a big difference in terms of product that’s on the pitch.

I haven’t enjoyed the league for quite while because it’s so refreshing to see.

Also great not having the distractions of the 'big name' marquees this season. 
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Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 11:25 PM
Bloody good game to be at!

Crowd was only 7688 I think, but it looked and felt like maybe 10k or so. Den were awesome with their noise. So good to have them back in numbers at Suncorp.

Roar played really good football for the first half, decent football for the next quarter and desperate football with some quality in the final quarter. We were running out of legs for the final 15-20. Sydney did not wear their shooting boots I think it is safe to say and they did get opportunities that they failed to put away. Redders had a bit of a shocker with one miss hit kick causing a goal for us and a fumble that had him worried and scrambling.

Lolley had some chances but was kept much quieter than the last time we met. He certainly wasn't kept out of the game though. Still such a dangerous player. Most of the Sydney attack was limited by solid and energetic defence keeping pressure on.

Ryan Grant was getting really frustrated with his team's decision making in the second half. At one point he gave a pass inside into a dangerous area and after a couple of passes it came flying back his way. His grunt of disgust was audible and telling.

Under Aloisi we continue to play great attacking football - with one particular moment in the second half showing maybe 5 or 6 one touch passes zigzagging up the flank from the backline into the forward line. It wasn't flashy - it was just really good controlled football. I saw O'Shea picking out a good pass to Berenguer who then picked out a good pass into the forward line. That is the sort of thing I have been waiting for as opposed to them just both being on the park together and each doing their own good things. There is something about two quality players combining that unlocks so much more of a resilient defence.

One of Hore's much better games - once again he was legless by the end but putting two away was brilliant for him. Waddingham looked dangerous again and competes for the ball physically and mentally so well. At the other end, Trewin had a huge impact as the game wore on - tireless in his effort to shut down attacking raids.

Fantastic game again from Freke, and even better; I don't think anyone had a bad game for us.

Mileusnic continues to be wayward with his shooting but works so hard in both directions and creates many chances every game. I am happy to have him in the side.

Great to be at Suncorp. Great to have the rain hold off for the whole game. Great to get such a solid win. Great to consign those ratbags from Sydney to the bottom of the table eh LFC ;)

Corica getting a yellow card was an added bonus for my ears...

Just a comment on your posting RIMB to say I appreciate the effort you go to with these long posts. Read them with interest. Don't think you're wasting your time if you're not getting responses. 

That goes for other blokes here going to a fair bit of effort with the offerings. (Won't name you all because I'd forget half of you.)

My (usual) go is an observation here, a quip there and a smart arse remark every now and then.

Cheers


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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 12:30 PM
Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 11:25 PM

Just a comment on your posting RIMB to say I appreciate the effort you go to with these long posts. Read them with interest. Don't think you're wasting your time if you're not getting responses. 

That goes for other blokes here going to a fair bit of effort with the offerings. (Won't name you all because I'd forget half of you.)

My (usual) go is an observation here, a quip there and a smart arse remark every now and then.

Cheers
Sounds like you should be a ref ;)

Thanks Muz.



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Monoethnic Social Club - 30 Oct 2023 10:57 AM
robbos - 30 Oct 2023 10:18 AM

I watched the WU vs WSW game on the weekend (well the first half and some of the second) and that Brook lads strike to open the scoring was EPL level... a peach of a hit... 

That left back Clisby seems like he can cross the ball on a dime, he seems fairly old though, was he never good enough to get a Soceroos callup when he was younger?

Clisby has always had too much mongrel I think. My memories of him are hacking his opponents regularly. Maybe I misremember with the passage of time...

His delivery was real quality on the weekend.

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Has there been any word as to why the Jets goal was disallowed, the one that came off the Melbourne player?

I cannot understand how it was not awarded. Add to that it took the VAR a very long time to not award it and I cannot understand why.

One of the hardest things about the league struggling is that there is little to no commentary or insights into these things.  No panel discussions, no media interest, no one is asking the question and getting answers. The commentary at the time, and during the whole game, was atrocious.  That was a significant moment in the game, and there were many others, that the commentary team just seemed to ignore or brush off. I am not sure if their voices are just not suited to commentary, but they added no excitement to the game and instead detracted from what actually was an exciting game.

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Song - 30 Oct 2023 1:41 PM
Has there been any word as to why the Jets goal was disallowed, the one that came off the Melbourne player?

I cannot understand how it was not awarded. Add to that it took the VAR a very long time to not award it and I cannot understand why.

One of the hardest things about the league struggling is that there is little to no commentary or insights into these things.  No panel discussions, no media interest, no one is asking the question and getting answers. The commentary at the time, and during the whole game, was atrocious.  That was a significant moment in the game, and there were many others, that the commentary team just seemed to ignore or brush off. I am not sure if their voices are just not suited to commentary, but they added no excitement to the game and instead detracted from what actually was an exciting game.

Took me a while to find this and I have to agree. (About 68.30 minute mark. Commentator says he's offside whilst watching the replay.)

I can only assume the AR thought the Jets player next to the Victory player passes the ball to #8 Jets . To me it looks like the Victory bloke kicked it away and it went straight to the Jets bloke #8. In referee parlance he has 'deliberately played it' so it should have been play on.

Poor decision there. Particularly after VAR had a chance to review it.

Both commentators then say it should have been a goal. (Good to hear both pundits actually knew and quoted the law.)

Baffling.

https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/a-league-men/video/MkebeoaZY_FSjoP_Modjc8GV5Ah5v_mf/full-match-replay-melbourne-victory-vs-newcastle-jets/

https://melbournevictory.com.au/news/mens-match-report-fornaroli-shines-in-thrilling-victory-homecoming





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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 3:15 PM
Song - 30 Oct 2023 1:41 PM

Took me a while to find this and I have to agree. (About 68.30 minute mark. Commentator says he's offside whilst watching the replay.)

I can only assume the AR thought the Jets player next to the Victory player passes the ball to #8 Jets . To me it looks like the Victory bloke kicked it away and it went straight to the Jets bloke #8. In referee parlance he has 'deliberately played it' so it should have been play on.

Poor decision there. Particularly after VAR had a chance to review it.

Both commentators then say it should have been a goal. (Good to hear both pundits actually knew and quoted the law.)

Baffling.

https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/a-league-men/video/MkebeoaZY_FSjoP_Modjc8GV5Ah5v_mf/full-match-replay-melbourne-victory-vs-newcastle-jets/

https://melbournevictory.com.au/news/mens-match-report-fornaroli-shines-in-thrilling-victory-homecoming



Is it possible the touch from Buhagiar was deemed directly at goal and therefore the Victory player blocking that did not bring the offside Jets player into play?

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Song - 30 Oct 2023 1:41 PM
Has there been any word as to why the Jets goal was disallowed, the one that came off the Melbourne player?

I cannot understand how it was not awarded. Add to that it took the VAR a very long time to not award it and I cannot understand why.

One of the hardest things about the league struggling is that there is little to no commentary or insights into these things.  No panel discussions, no media interest, no one is asking the question and getting answers. The commentary at the time, and during the whole game, was atrocious.  That was a significant moment in the game, and there were many others, that the commentary team just seemed to ignore or brush off. I am not sure if their voices are just not suited to commentary, but they added no excitement to the game and instead detracted from what actually was an exciting game.

I posted something similar on Reddit. The incident isn't even in Paramount's mini match edit, despite causing a substantial VAR delay. Lucky I went to the game or I may not have known it even happened. Surely a little panel discussion is not too much to ask for? 
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Off topic but who would have predicted Melb City would be bottom of table after 2 games with only 1 goal scored and 8 goals against?!! City will probably bounce back but it’s great for the league 

So glad AL isn’t like Spfl etc where it’s the same 2 clubs always in 1st and 2nd place

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Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM
Off topic but who would have predicted Melb City would be bottom of table after 2 games with only 1 goal scored and 8 goals against?!! City will probably bounce back but it’s great for the league 

So glad AL isn’t like Spfl etc where it’s the same 2 clubs always in 1st and 2nd place

So glad SPL isn’t like AL where it’s the same 12 clubs always 
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numklpkgulftumch - 30 Oct 2023 5:48 PM
Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM

So glad SPL isn’t like AL where it’s the same 12 clubs always 

P/R makes no difference in Spfl - it’s just celtic and rangers vs the rest 😴😴😴
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SoccerooFan - 28 Oct 2023 3:01 PM
sub007 - 28 Oct 2023 11:10 AM

Or play 2 upfront?

You can’t really play two up front when you have two wingers who love to cut inside and shoot, it gets too congested.

Sydney would have to completely change up their front line if they are to accommodate Gomes. If I were Corica, I’d keep the attack playing as it is and just start Wood given their attack has proven it can score plenty of goals.
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Wow what a win!

If you ever need an example to prove that you don’t need to win the possession battle to win games, yesterday was a prime example. Adelaide were so clinical and ruthless in the final third while City for all of their possession dominance, created very few good opportunities and most of their xG was from the penalty. 

Our defence is so much stronger than last year which is a real positive sign, despite not making a single defensive signing. Carl had changed the way we defend whilst having Ansell back fit also helps.

The way we attack had also changed, with more focus on playing through the middle whereas last season, we mainly played out wide to get the most out of Goodwin. While this approach helped Goodwin (and by extension the team), it made a number of our other attackers less effective. As we are now playing through the middle more, it has bought more players into the game more with the likes of Clough and Halloran looking a lot more dangerous than last season. 
This tactical change and the quality of the other players at the club is the reason why we are able to be so successful so far.

And finally its great to see Bernardo back firing and congratulations to Musa Toure and Ryan Tunnicliffe for scoring their first goals for the club.

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Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM
Off topic but who would have predicted Melb City would be bottom of table after 2 games with only 1 goal scored and 8 goals against?!! City will probably bounce back but it’s great for the league 

So glad AL isn’t like Spfl etc where it’s the same 2 clubs always in 1st and 2nd place

The SPFL lives rent free in your head.
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Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 10:05 AM
Barca4Life - 29 Oct 2023 11:48 PM

Said this before but Fox losing interest in the league and the reduced salary cap has been great. Loads of young blokes in every team and the 36 year old overpaid journeymen are scarce on the ground. Win win.

Good to read this.
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sub007 - 30 Oct 2023 11:01 PM
Wow what a win!

If you ever need an example to prove that you don’t need to win the possession battle to win games, yesterday was a prime example. Adelaide were so clinical and ruthless in the final third while City for all of their possession dominance, created very few good opportunities and most of their xG was from the penalty. 

Our defence is so much stronger than last year which is a real positive sign, despite not making a single defensive signing. Carl had changed the way we defend whilst having Ansell back fit also helps.

The way we attack had also changed, with more focus on playing through the middle whereas last season, we mainly played out wide to get the most out of Goodwin. While this approach helped Goodwin (and by extension the team), it made a number of our other attackers less effective. As we are now playing through the middle more, it has bought more players into the game more with the likes of Clough and Halloran looking a lot more dangerous than last season. 
This tactical change and the quality of the other players at the club is the reason why we are able to be so successful so far.

And finally its great to see Bernardo back firing and congratulations to Musa Toure and Ryan Tunnicliffe for scoring their first goals for the club.

Informative post.
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Roar in me Blood - 27 Oct 2023 11:25 PM
Bloody good game to be at!

Crowd was only 7688 I think, but it looked and felt like maybe 10k or so. Den were awesome with their noise. So good to have them back in numbers at Suncorp.

Roar played really good football for the first half, decent football for the next quarter and desperate football with some quality in the final quarter. We were running out of legs for the final 15-20. Sydney did not wear their shooting boots I think it is safe to say and they did get opportunities that they failed to put away. Redders had a bit of a shocker with one miss hit kick causing a goal for us and a fumble that had him worried and scrambling.

Lolley had some chances but was kept much quieter than the last time we met. He certainly wasn't kept out of the game though. Still such a dangerous player. Most of the Sydney attack was limited by solid and energetic defence keeping pressure on.

Ryan Grant was getting really frustrated with his team's decision making in the second half. At one point he gave a pass inside into a dangerous area and after a couple of passes it came flying back his way. His grunt of disgust was audible and telling.

Under Aloisi we continue to play great attacking football - with one particular moment in the second half showing maybe 5 or 6 one touch passes zigzagging up the flank from the backline into the forward line. It wasn't flashy - it was just really good controlled football. I saw O'Shea picking out a good pass to Berenguer who then picked out a good pass into the forward line. That is the sort of thing I have been waiting for as opposed to them just both being on the park together and each doing their own good things. There is something about two quality players combining that unlocks so much more of a resilient defence.

One of Hore's much better games - once again he was legless by the end but putting two away was brilliant for him. Waddingham looked dangerous again and competes for the ball physically and mentally so well. At the other end, Trewin had a huge impact as the game wore on - tireless in his effort to shut down attacking raids.

Fantastic game again from Freke, and even better; I don't think anyone had a bad game for us.

Mileusnic continues to be wayward with his shooting but works so hard in both directions and creates many chances every game. I am happy to have him in the side.

Great to be at Suncorp. Great to have the rain hold off for the whole game. Great to get such a solid win. Great to consign those ratbags from Sydney to the bottom of the table eh LFC ;)

Corica getting a yellow card was an added bonus for my ears...

Thanks for the detailed report, RIMB.
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SUTHERLANDBEAR - 30 Oct 2023 11:17 PM
Balin Trev - 30 Oct 2023 5:22 PM

The SPFL lives rent free in your head.

Nah. Overall it’s been a good stepping stone league for some Aussie players like Viduka, G Kuol, possibly Baccus, etc. 
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Roar in me Blood - 30 Oct 2023 4:35 PM
Munrubenmuz - 30 Oct 2023 3:15 PM

Is it possible the touch from Buhagiar was deemed directly at goal and therefore the Victory player blocking that did not bring the offside Jets player into play?

Yeah that's grasping at straws though. You'd have to argue the Victory bloke 'blocked it' and 'didn't play it'. Can't understand the logic by the VAR.

Here's some IFAB guidance if you're interested.  https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/

There's more there but here's an excerpt. (There's some good videos down the bottom of examples.)

No change to Law 11 is necessary but, to reflect football’s expectation, the guidelines for distinguishing between ‘deliberate play’ and ‘deflection’ are clarified as follows:

‘Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

  • passing the ball to a team-mate; or
  • gaining possession of the ball; or
  • clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).

If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air




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2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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I don't understand why there isn't a referee's report published for each game. I'm sure the information is documented, just publish it online somewhere. At least then the public has some form of understanding around certain decisions.
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Meant to say clip 7 of that IFAB link is from the Australia Peru game in Russia.

https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/

It was 'play on' in that match as it was deemed 'deliberately played' before they clarified the what was and wasn't. Under the new guidance the Peruvian fella would have been offside.

And then they wouldn't have scored and Arzani would have came on and we would've won 2-1 and been through to the next round. 

Fucking IFAB.

Just googling that match I notice FIFA are putting up full match replays from past tournaments. How good. 

https://www.plus.fifa.com/en/player/2c3a0df6-5348-4304-86bf-d094f0254eb0?catalogId=b053c1ac-eec2-4b04-8847-5815953648fc&entryPoint=Slider


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2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 11:22 AM
Meant to say clip 7 of that IFAB link is from the Australia Peru game in Russia.

https://www.theifab.com/news/law-11-offside-deliberate-play-guidelines-clarified/

It was 'play on' in that match as it was deemed 'deliberately played' before they clarified the what was and wasn't. Under the new guidance the Peruvian fella would have been offside.

And then they wouldn't have scored and Arzani would have came on and we would've won 2-1 and been through to the next round. 

Fucking IFAB.

Just googling that match I notice FIFA are putting up full match replays from past tournaments. How good. 

https://www.plus.fifa.com/en/player/2c3a0df6-5348-4304-86bf-d094f0254eb0?catalogId=b053c1ac-eec2-4b04-8847-5815953648fc&entryPoint=Slider

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."

Thanks Muz. I will have a look at the references you have added.

In the meantime, the quote I have added is the one above your original quote from your link. 'Deliberately' playing the ball is what your post talked about but the underlined part is the part I would expect them to have applied - that it was a deliberate save attempt by the Victory player. It would make sense of the lengthy VAR review while they decided if the Victory intervention did count as a save.

As always I acknowledge my ignorance happily and cannot say if the goal should or should not have stood - I just like trying to see where the decision might have come from when it appears inexplicable.

The more I learn the less I know seems to fit football spectating very well...


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Roar in me Blood - 31 Oct 2023 11:36 AM
Munrubenmuz - 31 Oct 2023 11:22 AM

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball, including by deliberate handball, is not considered to have gained an advantage, unless it was a deliberate save by any opponent."

Thanks Muz. I will have a look at the references you have added.

In the meantime, the quote I have added is the one above your original quote from your link. 'Deliberately' playing the ball is what your post talked about but the underlined part is the part I would expect them to have applied - that it was a deliberate save attempt by the Victory player. It would make sense of the lengthy VAR review while they decided if the Victory intervention did count as a save.

As always I acknowledge my ignorance happily and cannot say if the goal should or should not have stood - I just like trying to see where the decision might have come from when it appears inexplicable.

The more I learn the less I know seems to fit football spectating very well...

'Deliberate save' is generally applied to the goalkeeper who might parry the ball to an attacker in an offside position. A 'deliberate save' doesn't reset the offside so that's why that's in there.

It does say 'opponent' rather than GK to cover all players. To me that wasn't a 'save' by the Victory bloke. For starters it wasn't instinctive. Secondly he had time and opportunity to change his body shape and kick it away so that should be that.

Pretty much 3 out of 5 of these have been met. (bolded.) Note you do not need to meet all 5.  

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, ‘deliberately played’ the ball:
  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air





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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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someguyjc - 31 Oct 2023 11:18 AM
I don't understand why there isn't a referee's report published for each game. I'm sure the information is documented, just publish it online somewhere. At least then the public has some form of understanding around certain decisions.

The MLS release all their VAR with an explanation each round.

An A league version would be good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzMtuv4325g


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Edited
2 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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