Couple of things.

He hasn't stood out for one year, he's been a stand out for around  2 and a half and he showed potential before that. The bloke is by far the most versatile and consistent CM's I've seen come out of Australia.

He was the only true number 10 we had in the squad, (playing in the role in his academy days, and seeing himself as an AM) But you believe Arnie was in the right using a DM in the first game, and a winger in the second? Even though the creativity and breaking down of opposition is currently a major problem in our team.

To be honest I think Alex Robertson is a better number 10, but he wasn't in the squad, so you go with the players that plays in the spot, not a winger or a DM. He proved that within 10 minutes of being on the field, if you didn't see it that on you, and you probably shouldn't be commenting on football.

Seeing as Inside Sport aren't publishing Australian football news anymore...

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/09/11/tired-clueless-shambles-football-australias-huge-arnie-dilemma-after-woeful-start-to-world-cup-qualifiers/

Wouldn't be surprised if JJ says to Arnie any more points dropped vs China, Indo, or Bahrain ( maybe even SA at home) and he's gone.

...and for all this talent he's landed at contract at Ross County at the tender age of 25.  Have you ever seen them play and what sort of league they play in?

Irankunda hasn't played a league game for Bayern Munich yet so I would postpone judgement on that one.  Izzo is just a keeper at a wild west league in Denmark, whilst St Pauli will be swiftly relegated from the Bundesliga if they don't upgrade on players like Metcalfe and Irvine.

We've put ourselves in an even bigger hole with these results. The final window will count for much more once again. I'd wished this time it wouldn't that maybe the home Japan game would have less bearing. In turn, maybe Japan will be sorted by then and will experiment. While a very good team, it should be beneficial that we now need results in these big clashes.

A lot could already be decided in November. We host Saudi then go to Bahrain while they go to Indonesia. I have Australia and Saudi tied on 7 points assuming we beat them in Melbourne. We then go stroke for stroke with them with Saudi having Japan away to come and a H2H game in final day.

Ideally we win in Bahrain and Saudi don't win in Indonesia. Come March we win at home to Indonesia and draw in China. Saudi beat China at home but lose in Japan. The June window Australia is on 14 and Saudi 11. Japan at home is a free hit but a win would mean only a bad loss away to Saudi will flip things. Australia draw at home to Japan and Saudi win in Bahrain.

I think it'll be 14 points each when it comes to the final game and Australia just need a draw to qualify. 


https://ultra.zone/2026-FIFA-World-Cup-qualification-AFC-Third-Round#group=c 

So your having a go at potentially good players in mediocre leagues i.e Nisbet, and then you go after mediocre  players in good leagues i.e Irvine and Metcalfe.....

Your a contradiction, mate.

We don't have good players in good leagues, haven't in 20 years, so what are we doing wrong this time around?


.

The dudes trolling. It's not worth biting. 

I agree with much of this but Arnie's performance as coach can and should be judged independently. Our team is good enough to qualify for the WC and certainly to progress further in AC's or to beat Bahrain and Indonesia. How do you assess his performance as coach from the AC to now? We look like we're out of ideas and have been figured out.

If Arnie stays and we're to have any hope he needs to change. If he goes its bloody awkward timing and not ideal either. It's shit all round.

no matter who we have we will have good and bad patches of form.
Bahrain had a 10 day camp to our half a session when we had a crises at cam (mcgree injured, robertson still settling, hrustic just settling, volpato injured and may not want us anyway) and a crisis at rb. He went safety first to avoid a loss and try and nick a goal here or there and win ugly. A gamble. Makes sense but it failed.
 think it was a mistake but hind sight is 20-20 and being the only coach to qualify for the olympics (twice) in 20 years, qualified during covid, having that great run v peru, tunisia and denmark as well as dominating domestically. If the fan based loved ange or pim verbeek at the time I would be more sympathetic to #arnieout. But when it is 3 high quality coaches in a row who are blasted by fans (skipping holger), it just seems like group think rather than having realistic expectations about the players we have and a plan to get better players

We probably end up with 13-18 points which is probably where we are at no matter who coaches us imo

You can be constructive about the system as well as criticise the coaching and player selection at the same time, this is football at the end of the day.

I don’t know why the discussion has to be so rigid that the coach has to work with what the players he has but also can’t discuss why the coach it’s doing a good job in getting the best out of them as well.

Football in Australia has got a lot of problems but if the thinking or ideology is so rigid then we would not get anywhere if we can’t be more open minded in how we see football.

If Football Australia want to get the fans onside, the first thing they will do is remove the head coach and make a change because the results and the level of football have not met the standards that are required whilst also saying the development system currently is not producing enough quality players for the national team to work with.

It does not to have to be one way or other which I’m mostly seeing, so frustrating to be a fan of football in this country.

well you can discuss the coach we have. But he is the only coach to qualify us through the olympics (twice) when no one else has in 20 years, dominated domestically, got past the 5th place south american side (which our gg couldn't in 2001 but did in 2005) and achieved our best ever world cup finish with a bunch of 2nd division players. He will have good patches and bad patches, and if we had the cash to hire a really world class coach with Guus' pedigree for 2 years as well as pay out 2 years of arnie's contract sure you might see some improvement. But he is pretty good, probably similar resume to ange when he took over the NT (who people also scapegoated)

if another country had his squad to pick - take the g&g glasses off and just look at the club careers - surely you would be more wondering how they did so well rather than so poorly

Paying 2 years of arnie's contract then even more for a better coach (probably a lot more is needed to make a real difference, probably we go sideways and go for muscat who is great, just as good, but will also have good patches and bad patches) means a lot of money that could be spent on a nyl, and nst or a proper youth rep coach. I'd be more sympathetic if the fan base liked at least one of pim, ange and arnie when they coached us. But all of them are great coaches that got scapegoated

If you want to judge Arnie on the results fair enough he has got the runs on the board but if you also want to judge Arnie on the type of football we are playing and type of players he has selected then I’ll go on a different outlook.

Remember we almost didn’t qualify for the World Cup if Peru didn’t play that poorly against us in that playoff game, and outside of the World Cup the football has been dreadful and our struggles in possession are here to be seen.
We got results where we haven’t played well and we got results when we didn’t need to force the game like we saw at the World Cup.

Results based analysis can be misleading if the performances the quality of football doesn’t improve then eventually if will reflect in the results too.

To put it simply we haven’t improved since the World Cup in terms of the football and even the player selections, which questions me why did the FA give him a new deal in the first place? What did they see to give Arnie a new deal or because they lack of actual analysis of what has transpired they got hoodwinked by the World Cup results.

Has the quality of player improved? The potential of the players has improved, there are a lot of young players in europes 2nd tier, a fraction of those should jump up a league in a couple of years, but for now they arent better yet. We have also lost mooy and rogic in this tjme without any replacements of the same caliber (yet) but gained better defenders

Player wise it’s probably improved, the u23 Olyroos and below look to be technically better and some are coming through into lower to mid tier leagues in Europe but agree we need more playing at a higher level.

Agree on Mooy, Rogic and to extent extent to Luongo we haven’t replaced them but I still think the right coaching and selections we should doing better in some parts.

I agree that the players we have as a whole in the 00-03 cohort are technically better, and as a result are playing more often at a younger age.
But they are for now 2nd division players who are average to above average for their league and not better than the seniors yet. That could change quickly. Irankunda starts some games, silvera too, bos when fit, circati as well. That leaves volpato and robertson as the players currently ready (tho volpato is unlikely). Toure might be ready soon but seemed to struggle in his first start after impressing in 20 min cameos

I've made no contradictory statements here.  You are trying to make a point that's irrelevant to anything I've said.

Sweet mate.

You make contradictory statements, and you think I'm the one who's contribution is irrelevant. Fuck mate, you sound deluded. 

don't know which address gets more noticed - I'll just try again.

more so to johnsz, is there any comments in the press by any Roo players talking negative for I haven't seen any ? where is this intel coming from re losing the room ?

Nothing I've said is contradictory.  That's something you've constructed in your own mind.

I found the players the FA YouTube interviewed were soft targets, ones who would toe the line. I have a feeling Goodwin is frustrated. There was a lot gesturing to and from Arnold against Bahrain. I'd love to be a fly on the wall. 

sure same on P+ - Irakunda and Circati interviewed from memory then later GA.
You'd expect any interview the Capt says his peace as well.
Yer well I'm not convinced of in fighting or group splits by this.
Sure the ol blokes would be livid.
Lets see if anything new/more comes out over the coming weeks.

During the World Cup and even Asian Cup the players were quite vocal about wanting Arnie to stay in the role.

That's all very loyal etc - he did pick them after all - but I'm not hearing the same sentiments now. That's not to suggest he's lost the dressing room - I doubt he has - but the team is dealing with a great deal of frustration. My guess is that the older players are frustrated with their own performances and teh younger players are frustrated that they don't get the same minutes / responsibility as the more senior players who are clearly under-performing.

Hard decisions coming up for Arnie.

I think it's a great point you make about preparation. Ours was poor. I wonder what we can do improve that? We had to get our guys in from their European clubs which makes it complicated. 

The injury issues at CAM were a problem. How we responded to it was also a problem. We didn't select some of our options including Robertson, Hrustic, Kalik or Genreau. I think going into these games with 6 mids, who have a sameness to their playing qualities, and only one CAM was an issue. Not starting that CAM against Barhain was also an issue. Squad and team selection made the problem worse. 

At RB there weren't too many options and I'm not against Arnies solution with Circati. That said Karacic wasn't picked and has been in good form.

At LB we should have selected Elder with Bos and Farrell out. Behich is cooked. The WC was his last hurrah of good intl football. The dual choice of Behich and Rowles really hurt our ability to play out from the back and play progressive passes. 

The midfield selection was horrible. You could see the risk with squad selection. But the balance of 100% defensive minded mids meant we were relying on luck rather than relying in ourselves to break-up a defence. Each of the guys selected are good players, so I won't scape goat yhem, but they needed a different mix around them to be effective. It was a mess with Rowles and Behich in behind adding to the issue of ball progression. Nisbet needed to start. Devlin shouldn't have been selected in the squad. And some creative bench options were needed. I'd have taken Robertson and Kalik. It would have changed the whole dynamic and given starting and sub options. 

Boyle over Nestory or Mabil v Barhain also a mistake. The latter two have club form, whereas Boyle has struggled. 

On Arnolds record I think on balance with what he's had it's excellect. The WC was his peak. Tactically shrewd and well executed. 

But everything since has been a calamity. The Asian Cup was horrible. The start of WCQ horrible. Our friendlies poor.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that Asian teams will play a deep block. And ME teams will simulate and try gamesmanship. We didn't select a team to beat a defensive block. We didn't have ball players from the back, technique in the middle, v Barhain just the lone striker. We got sucked into the gamesmanship, got frustrated and were naive. We played too slow, too wide, too sideways to be effective. To me that's on Arnie. 

I don't think it's group think. It may be a lot of frustration on my part mind you. But what I watched at the AC and those opening games of qualifying was a team without direction, with a poor gameplan who got outcoached. 

I've said it before but I think our players are capable and should be beating Barhain and Indonesia. Our team selection too heavily favoured work horses. We left creative options in Europe who would have helped. 

I hope you're right that Arnie can turn it around because I can't see the FA sacking him. We need him to. He did it once before prior to the Peru playoffs. He'll need to do it again. But he needs to change imo.

yeah i think coaches like players have form and I think I agree with all of the above
1) forgot about karacic but you are right he is an extra rb. Arnie could have watched him (I haven't) to be fair but that would be a good question for lewis and rugari to ask 
2)I disagree about CAM, with the exception of kalik I think there were at least defensible reasons for why the others weren't selected this window. This is Kalik's first year as starter I believe? I haven't watched him play so don't know if he can do a job. I did notice on sofa score he is playing rw tho
3) I agree nisbet should have started. I wonder if Arnie responded to the rb and cam availability crisis by going safety first, picking players who were either experienced or going well at club level. Just try and nick the result ugly and wait until the cavalry return. I can see why you would go that route. Yengi and Boyle in horrid form which caused issues. Rowles down on confidence in distribution tho improved in the 2nd half. Injury crisis at lb too so we had to select an unfit behich. So much going wrong at the same time and I agree he made wrong decisions. I think Arnie did screw up with the balance of midfield, maybe missing karacic too. Every coach will screw up some decisions. I disagree about the asian cup - we had no mooy and an unfit mcgree (also lost rogic before the world cup) and a hrustic not getting game time for 12 months. That is basically all of our creativity killed in a short amount of time. We should have more depth soon. I think the last wcq was ugly but perfect. Poor squad, no home ground advantage and got us there.
4) To get rid of arnie you need to pay out his contract and then pay the same amount to get someone just as good. That money has to come from somewhere. If we finish fourth you could try to do that (since it is only 1 year of the contract). The honeymoon effect of a new coach will give us a boost even if they aren't a better coach. I see this happen with teams fighting relegation but you have to time it right. If he finishes first and things look ok given our squad then we should keep him imo

Going into the Asian Cup, the reality is Bruno Fornoroli was probably the best striker Australia had in that moment (which I know is saying something)

However he was criminally underused at the Asian Cup, and it was clear when he was on his workrate far exceeded Duke etc 

He was left out mostly but one game he started he was taken off after 60 from memory in a line up that was hardly going to help him. That's on Arnie. You can tell this killed his confidence and desire too. 

He was a player hungry to score with passion, now I am not against not playing him - but the players on the starting sheet rarely get out of second gear, and the fight and desire in non existant. It appears Arnie has built a team for the boys where everyone will get a kick regardless of form of desire to actually do something on the pitch

https://www.espn.com.au/soccer/story/_/id/41239877/football-australia-back-graham-arnold-socceroos-wcqs

I can only hope that JJ was giving Arnold the dreaded "vote of confidence", but I suspect not.

These are the guys that think they masterminded the penalties against Peru with cringeworthy antics. 
FFS, he only saved a single penalty and didn't look like really saving any of the others. I think players who scored did better than Redmayne