ACT to pull pin on World Cup bid


ACT to pull pin on World Cup bid

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Gyfox
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ACT shelves World Cup support
BY CHRIS DUTTON AND MICHAEL INMAN
27/10/2009 7:41:00 AM
The ACT Government is preparing to turn its back on the world game and withdraw its support for Australia's FIFA World Cup bid and future A-League matches.
ACT sport minister Andrew Barr declared yesterday his intention to back out of Football Federation Australia's 2018 or 2022 World Cup bids in favour of luring a separate sporting ''bonanza'' to the capital.

And in a further blow to the ACT's relationship with the FFA, Mr Barr said the A-League clash between the Central Coast Mariners and Adelaide United on Saturday night could be the competition's last at Canberra Stadium. Mr Barr had initially hoped to host World Cup games or have international teams based in Canberra for the duration of the tournament.

But instead of spending millions of dollars on the infrastructure required to be an active participant in the World Cup, he now hopes to throw stranded NRL, AFL and Super rugby teams a Canberra lifeline.

If a bid was successful those codes would be unable to play on World Cup venues for up to two months before and during the tournament.

''[The AFL, NRL and Super15] are going to have to move away from Sydney and Melbourne and it might be strategically to our advantage not to have anything to do with the football World Cup and take extra AFL, rugby league and rugby union [matches] instead,'' Mr Barr said.

''If the other competitions aren't going to go into obedience [with FIFA and suspend action] for that period, then it could be a bonanza for Canberra.

''So we'll just be strategic in what we do in Canberra because we may be able to get the big tourism benefits that we want without having to outlay $200million on a new stadium.''

Canberra needs $200million to upgrade the Canberra Stadium precinct if it is to meet FIFA regulations and host World Cup matches.

Canberra Stadium and Manuka Oval will be upgraded to some extent, regardless of the ACT's involvement in the World Cup.

Federal Cabinet meets this week to discuss what funding it will provide to Australia's bid.

The ACT is relying on the Rudd Government to foot the majority of the $200million bill for a new stadium.

The FFA snubbed Canberra's attempt to enter the A-League last month and opted to award the 12th licence to western Sydney.

Mr Barr said there was no point hosting future A-League matches between two out-of-town teams.

Instead, he will lobby the FFA to bring more Socceroos internationals to Canberra Stadium.

Capital Football chief executive Heather Reid is hopeful Canberra would play some role in the World Cup bid to give the region's soccer fans an unforgettable experience.

But former National Soccer League player and father of current Socceroo Carl, Walter Valeri, backed the Government's decision.

''It was a sad day when Canberra got left out of the A-League and it's fair enough to say 'why should we support the World Cup when you can't even give it to us on a regular basis?''' Valeri said.

NRL clubs have already voiced their displeasure and shown unwillingness to ''shut down'' for eight weeks while soccer fever sweeps the country.

Canberra Raiders chairman John McIntyre supported Mr Barr's stance.

Mr McIntyre said the Raiders would be happy to share Canberra with other rugby league and sporting teams to make the capital a thriving national sport hub for the duration of the World Cup.

However, Adelaide United coach Aurelio Vidmar said, ''Every Australian, regardless of what state, needs to support these World Cup bids.

''I think it's very important that all codes, whether its football, rugby, netball, whatever it is, everyone should be supporting it.

''Every state and every government should be supporting it, because it's a massive tournament.''

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/act-shelves-world-cup-support/1659991.aspx

Is this just posturing or does the ACT Government really believe that half a dozen AFL games and a few extra NRL games equate to being a World Cup host venue?
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Is it me, or is every other code serious on attempting to undermine our FIFA World Cup Bid. Are they really that scared of us. Jesus Christ!!!

WOLLONGONG WOLVES FOR A-LEAGUE EXPANSION!

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I think this is less the other codes.
More canberra being pissed at the FFA.

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the ffa have brought this on themselves
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I've never been 100% confident of our chances - more because of the strength of other bids rather than any weaknesses in ours - but all the talk of ovals, the attitude of the AFL/NRL, and now of one of the ACT, is really stacking the odds against us.

Without the ACT, we will have to go to FIFA and explain why a country that can't even talk it's own capital into hosting games should be given the rights to the biggest competition in the world.
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Australia just seems so small on the world stage - so many stooges opening their mouths this past week. AFL/NRL matches over a World Cup - ha!
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Benjamin wrote:

Without the ACT, we will have to go to FIFA and explain why a country that can't even talk it's own capital into hosting games should be given the rights to the biggest competition in the world.


For FIFA and most of the world, the capital of Australia is Sydney...
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Yes and no. The great perception around the world is that Sydney is this huge and all powerful Aussie metropolis (the same opinion is held in Sydney, I believe), but it won't pass FIFA's attention that the political capital of the nation doesn't want to be a part of the finals. And even if it does - you can bet that the English, USA, etc., will make a point of bringing it up whenever possible.
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Heineken wrote:
Is it me, or is every other code serious on attempting to undermine our FIFA World Cup Bid. Are they really that scared of us. Jesus Christ!!!


They'd say no but it's obvious that it's yes. This is why we are and always will be nothing but a pissant (thanks viddie!) little country.
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It'd be a blow, though Im sure a bid without Canberra could still work, most importantly Perth and Adelaide need to get on board...
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I'm not too worried about Barr's stance. Based on the quotes, he seem to be trying to bargain for more Socceroo games than anything else. Ben Buckly has already been on record saying the Canberra bid is a priority for the 13th team, write a letter of intent outlining plans for several friendlies to be played at Canberra and I can see the problem with Barr going away. The question is how Lowy would react to being blackmailed. Barr is playing with fire here and things could potentially blow up in his face if he doesn't step carefully.
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Benjamin wrote:
Yes and no. The great perception around the world is that Sydney is this huge and all powerful Aussie metropolis (the same opinion is held in Sydney, I believe), but it won't pass FIFA's attention that the political capital of the nation doesn't want to be a part of the finals. And even if it does - you can bet that the English, USA, etc., will make a point of bringing it up whenever possible.


And so they should. If the nation's capital prefers to host AFL and NRL which are at best only regional codes and turn it's back on one of the greatest sporting events in the world then Australia has no hope of hosting the WC finals for at least 25 years. Sad to see such provincial thinking.
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When it comes down to it the Federal Government won't let a bid go in without Canberra being in it. They own the land that the ACT was going to use for the new stadium anyway so they will just build a stadium themselves.
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Benjamin wrote:
Without the ACT, we will have to go to FIFA and explain why a country that can't even talk it's own capital into hosting games should be given the rights to the biggest competition in the world.


Who cares? Most people outside of OZ have never heard of Canberra, and even most Aussies have never been there!

It's not without precedent anyway. Pretoria is not a venue for next year's finals in S Africa, and Tokyo wasn't a venue in 2002 (although you could argue Yokohama is effectively part of Tokyo).

I don't think there is much chance of us being chosen for numerous reasons, but the involvement of Canberra isn't one of them.
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I also posted this in another thread:

I hope he is just playing politics. Because if not then I am absolutely furious at the ACT Government. "Oh hey, instead of hosting the World's biggest sporting event in Canberra, why don't we just settle for the Swans vs the Demons instead". Yea I think that is a much better alternative. Luring a seperate "sporting bonanza". What the hell is he talking about? The World Cup is the biggest sporting bonanza in the world. I'm sure it is more of a bonzanza thatn seeing Swans-Demons play.

What is this gonna achieve? Yes, we didn't get an A-League team this time around but we were never going to get it, yes the FFA screwed us over but by continuing to support football in Australia will help our push towards a Canberra A-League team. We cannot continue to sook over the decision, we just have to move on and do the best moves for football in Canberra and Australia. The FFA made a big mistake in not accepting us or giving us a provisional licence but this is just going to hurt our Canberra A-league bid. This is a bloody disgrace.
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Jackk wrote:
Pretoria is not a venue for next year's finals in S Africa


Correction, Pretoria is a venue, it's just referred to as Tshwane on the website. Anyway, the point remains, it's not compuslory to use your capital city, especially when your capital city is a glorifed business park built in the middle of nowhere (which has freezing cold weather when the WC will be on!) :d

Edited by Jackk: 27/10/2009 03:59:39 PM

Edited by Jackk: 27/10/2009 04:00:04 PM
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POSTED THIS ON ANOTHER THREAD ASWELL.

Andrew Barr, GO FUCK YOURSELF, this bloke is a total wanker and no self respecting football FAN will listen to his utter BULLSHIT. Fancy saying that crap, " we'll support the nrl afl aru during the world cup if Australia get it. Your a FUCKEN IDIOT Barr, did you get a bar while makeing that speech you fukwit.

CALLING ALL CANBERRANS, GET TO THE GAME ON SATURDAY NIGHT PROTEST BY BEING THERE RATHER THAN NOT, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY FFA WILL SEE THAT WE DO DESERVE A TEAM. TAKE BANNERS PROTESTING THE FACT WE DID NOT GET A TEAM. I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THAT OUR BID WAS SHAFTED BUT THE WAY FORWARD IS WITH NUMBERS ON SEATS. LETS SHOW FFA THAT WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT A TEAM HERE. FORGET ABOUT THIS PISSY ATTITUDE TOWARDS WEST SYDNEY EVEN THOUGH WE KNEW WE HAD THE BETTER BID. WE HAVE TO GET AROUND THE 10,000 MARK TO MAKE A STAEMENT SO C'MON LETS GET OUT THERE ON SATURDAY NIGHT AND SREAM OUR BALLS OFF FOR OUR OWN TEAM EVEN THOUGH THE TEAMS PLAYIN WILL BEFROM OUT OF TOWN. PLEASE LETS DO IT FOR THE FUTURE OF THE YOUNG KIDS IN THE ACT THAT ASPIRE TO PLAY AT A HIGH LEVEL IM BEGGING PLEASE LETS SHOVE BARRS COCK UP HIS ARSE
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AND JACKK YOU CAN GO FUCKYOURSELF ALSO
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spathi wrote:
AND JACKK YOU CAN GO FUCKYOURSELF ALSO


Lighten up FFS!
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spathi wrote:
AND JACKK YOU CAN GO FUCKYOURSELF ALSO


:lol:
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Guys, while sentimentally, yeah, the whole 'Our nations capital being involved' thing IS important, especially in regards to internal perceptions, pride, national scope etc... but you lot are generally missing the point -

The Canberra/Queanbeyan urban region is Australia's 8th largest city, at 400k+ plus people. By 2018 or so, you can make that 450k. Just forget that it's the Nation's Capital for a sec and recognise that like the Gold Coast (6th largest City/Region) and Newcastle (7th) being involved, it's VERY important for the Canberra region to be involved as a Host City, with a Host Stadium, for the strength of our World Cup bid!

Tommycash wrote:
I think this is less the other codes.
More canberra being pissed at the FFA.


Indeed and this is 'hopefully' just another ploy to pressure the FFA over the next A-League expansion and even pressure the Federal Govt. to help fund that $200M expansion.

BTW With that $200M expansion the NRL and especially the Brumbies/ARU would benefit greatly too. Canberra would then become a stadium more than fit for Wallabies Tests and for the Super 14/15 it would become more than suitable, giving the increasing demands that comp brings.

As Riv and others have suggested, alot of this tra-ra now could've been avoided, if Canberra were given a 'provisional/exclusive licence' similar to what Heart and later West Sydney achieved, except for the following 2011/12 season.

Edited by GloryPerth: 27/10/2009 07:25:33 PM
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copy from andrew barr face book

Interests:Politics, Music, Cooking, Cycling, Movies, Reading, Food, Wine, Tourism, Art, Theatre, most sports especially AFL, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket, Basketball, Tennis, Netball and Golf.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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conm wrote:
copy from andrew barr face book

Interests:Politics, Music, Cooking, Cycling, Movies, Reading, Food, Wine, Tourism, Art, Theatre, most sports especially AFL, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket, Basketball, Tennis, Netball and Golf.


:( :( :(
GloryPerth
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conm wrote:
copy from andrew barr face book

Interests:Politics, Music, Cooking, Cycling, Movies, Reading, Food, Wine, Tourism, Art, Theatre, most sports especially AFL, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket, Basketball, Tennis, Netball and Golf.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: Nice pick-up, but is it any real surprise? :lol:

Edit - posted in FFT's thread about this instead.

Edited by GloryPerth: 27/10/2009 07:58:58 PM
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GloryPerth wrote:

The Canberra/Queanbeyan urban region is Australia's 8th largest city, at 400k+ plus people. By 2018 or so, you can make that 450k. Just forget that it's the Nation's Capital for a sec and recognise that like the Gold Coast (6th largest City/Region) and Newcastle (7th) being involved, it's VERY important for the Canberra region to be involved as a Host City, with a Host Stadium, for the strength of our World Cup bid!


While I see your point, this just highlights one of the major problems with the Australian bid. We need to use at least 8 different cities, and we simply don't have 8 cities that are credible world cup venues, in which building a new stadium of 50,000+ can be justified. While 400k sounds like a reasonably big population, that's for the entire catchment area of Canberra. It's not like a typical city in other countries that might only have a population of 400k, but have numerous other reasonably sized towns within a short drive on top of that. The Raiders & Brumbies can't even fill the existing stadium there.

My comment earlier about Canberra was meant to be a joke (although clearly not taken that way by some), but there is some truth behind my point. Canberra is not a huge tourist attraction at the best of times, and certainly not in June/July. I just don't think the absence of Canberra from the bid will make any difference to those making the decision. There really are much bigger negatives than that - e.g. distance between venues, distance from rest of world, time difference from Europe, availability of sufficient accommodation in Melbourne & Sydney, getting AFL/NRL agreement to free up stadia ....
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Oh cmon Jackk doesn't Canberra have that huge fountain thing:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Jackk wrote:
GloryPerth wrote:

The Canberra/Queanbeyan urban region is Australia's 8th largest city, at 400k+ plus people. By 2018 or so, you can make that 450k. Just forget that it's the Nation's Capital for a sec and recognise that like the Gold Coast (6th largest City/Region) and Newcastle (7th) being involved, it's VERY important for the Canberra region to be involved as a Host City, with a Host Stadium, for the strength of our World Cup bid!


While I see your point, this just highlights one of the major problems with the Australian bid. We need to use at least 8 different cities, and we simply don't have 8 cities that are credible world cup venues, in which building a new stadium of 50,000+ can be justified. While 400k sounds like a reasonably big population, that's for the entire catchment area of Canberra. It's not like a typical city in other countries that might only have a population of 400k, but have numerous other reasonably sized towns within a short drive on top of that. The Raiders & Brumbies can't even fill the existing stadium there.

My comment earlier about Canberra was meant to be a joke (although clearly not taken that way by some), but there is some truth behind my point. Canberra is not a huge tourist attraction at the best of times, and certainly not in June/July. I just don't think the absence of Canberra from the bid will make any difference to those making the decision. There really are much bigger negatives than that - e.g. distance between venues, distance from rest of world, time difference from Europe, availability of sufficient accommodation in Melbourne & Sydney, getting AFL/NRL agreement to free up stadia ....


The 400k is just the immediate urban area - the wider catchment area is more like 700k, including the Riverina etc... Where Canberra is certainly the closest capital city, in relative terms.

Also, once again (As I've mentioned elsewhere), strategically, Canberra, like Wollongong and Gold Coast is not too far from a major capital city, Sydney ofcourse. Even the other Eastern States capitals are not too far, by plane.

So these places can and will certainly draw fans coming from Sydney, Brisbane or wherever, aswell as the overseas visitors.

And, this may not be by 2020 (Not at this rate), but surely by the middle of this century, the proposed 'Very Fast Rail' line from Sydney to Canberra and eventually Melbourne, will be established. That would essentially turn Canberra into another suburb of Sydney, as good and bad as that is.

BTW The minimum required capacity is 40k (60k is only required for Post-Group Match fixtures), which is suddenly a reasonable ask for Canberra's region and obviously one the Govt. was prepared to back. Also the Brumbies and even Raiders would benefit from such an expansion, upgrading of facilities too. So it's in their agenda to support such a stadium upgrade - especially the ARU, as they could host more Wallabies matches there and the Brumbies could fit some of their larger drawing Super 14 fixtures in there.

We're also sports freaks in this country and little old Townsville's (180k people) stadium is already 25k capacity and they may look to expand that too, if they use the city for the WC - Which has been mooted! :o Townsville is another kettle of fish, more of a concern IMHO, especially distance wise. But I think even there such a WC proposal is credible, with the area's very rapid growth rate and the crowds the Cowboys already draw.


I know we might be slightly stretched for 9-10 Host Cities, but I think it's more than possible for us to do this (The likes of Canberra and Wollongong ARE large enough and are well situated to larger Capitals) and the bid actually allows for the growth for the game, establishing a much needed legacy in areas like Canberra, Perth, Adelaide, maybe Wollongong etc...

TBH With USA, Korea/Japan etc... now South Africa hosting in recent couple decades, given our strong context, we're actually quite late on the scene - If we had the set up we had now, back in the 80s or 90s, we may've been bidding for 2002, even 1994! So it's not like we are only JUST ready to do so now, not in wider terms, just more ready in terms of administratively, which has resulted in the move to Asia and successful establishment of the A-League. It's kind of well past our due to be involved in this process, and arguably it's due for the Oceania region, symbolically through Australia, to be hosting it, in a way. Even if we're considered smaller fry, in some ways, the world knows what Australia can offer, including Sydney 2000.

Edited by GloryPerth: 27/10/2009 11:12:32 PM
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GloryPerth wrote:


Also, once again (As I've mentioned elsewhere), strategically, Canberra, like Wollongong and Gold Coast is not too far from a major capital city, Sydney ofcourse. Even the other Eastern States capitals are not too far, by plane.

So these places can and will certainly draw fans coming from Sydney, Brisbane or wherever, aswell as the overseas visitors.


I don't think you got what I'm saying. I don't doubt the fans would travel to Canberra for WC games. My point is that Canberra has no use whatsoever for a 50k stadium after the WC. They currently have a 25k stadium that more or less never gets filled. I think your definition of wider catchment area is pretty loose as well. Compare Canberra to similar sized European cities where there are often 5-10 other towns within 20km or so.

GloryPerth wrote:

TBH With USA, Korea/Japan etc... now South Africa hosting in recent couple decades, given our strong context, we're actually quite late on the scene - If we had the set up we had now, back in the 80s or 90s, we may've been bidding for 2002, even 1994!


USA - population 300 million
Korea - population 50 million, football is the number one sport, and they still only hosted half a WC
Japan - population 120 million, football is one of the top two sports, and they still only hosted half a WC
South Africa - population 50 million, football is the number one sport, and they still only got awarded the WC because Blatter was desperate to have it hosted in Africa.

Australia is simply not in the same position as any of those countries.

GloryPerth wrote:
Even if we're considered smaller fry, in some ways, the world knows what Australia can offer, including Sydney 2000.


The fact that you even mentioned the Olympics shows that you really don't appreciate the scale of the WC. You only need one big city to host the Olympics, not 8-10.
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Jackk
some good posts.

I think your on the money.

When you take the emotion and personal hopes out of it - our ability to host a World Cup looks flimsy at best.
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Jackk wrote:


While I see your point, this just highlights one of the major problems with the Australian bid. We need to use at least 8 different cities, and we simply don't have 8 cities that are credible world cup venues, in which building a new stadium of 50,000+ can be justified. While 400k sounds like a reasonably big population, that's for the entire catchment area of Canberra. It's not like a typical city in other countries that might only have a population of 400k, but have numerous other reasonably sized towns within a short drive on top of that. The Raiders & Brumbies can't even fill the existing stadium there.


First point. Stadiums don't have to be 50,000+. FIFA require stadiums to have a minimum capacity of 40,000 after the FIFA allocation of seats. In South Africa that makes the minimum capacity 42,000. My understanding is that for 2018/22 the minimum is 44,000.

Second point. The 5 mainland capital cities are certainly credible World Cup venues. The smallest of them, Adelaide is the 400th largest city in the world. With FIFA allowing up to 3 stadium per venue city in the bid we have 8 stadiums/potential stadiums that are credible World Cup stadiums. Suncorp Stadium (52,500), Sydney Football Stadium (46,000), ANZ Stadium (83,500), Proposed Western Sydney Stadium (45,000), Etihad Stadium (56,000), MCG (95,000), Proposed Adelaide Stadium (55,000) and Proposed Stadium WA (65,000). Add to these cities Townsville which is in the centre of a regional population of 620,000 in Northern Queensland that includes 2 international airports and arguably the biggest tourist attraction in Australia, the Great Barrier Reef. Add Gold Coast/Tweed with a population of 580,000 and tourist accommodation way in excess of requirements. Add Newcastle with a regional population of 530,000. Thats 8 credible venue cities without including Canberra/Queenbeyan which of course would be on the list because it is the capital of the country and has a regional population of 400,000. Between these 9 credible cities we have 12 credible stadiums which I understand is the minimum that FIFA require in the bid.

Third point. All of the venues are well justified although you might call into question Canberra and Townsville. Canberra Stadium's record crowds of 29,000 for Union, 25,000 for League and 20,000 for Football show that the 25,000 capacity is under what is required. A 45,000 seat stadium with 10,000 removable seating is a sensible solution for a World Cup venue there and the final 35,000 seat venue would be well used by the Brumbies (10 games a year), the Raiders (15), Canberra A-League W-League and Y-League (25), the Wallabies (1), the Kangaroos (1) and the Socceroos (1). Those games alone would result in excess of 500,000 spectators per annum attending the venue without including any finals games. Dairy Farmer's Stadium in Townsville originally had a capacity of 31,000 and with a record attendance of over 30,000 a venue larger than its current capacity of 26,500 is also well justified. Again a 45,000 seat capacity stadium with 10,000 removable seating would be appropriate. The resulting 35,000 seat stadium would continue to host the Cowboys (15 home games a year) and the Fury A-League and eventually W-League and Y-League (25) and result in 400,000 spectators attending the ground annually.
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