next it will be "ahahaha we were right the first time...that's why we won 12-0 at the MCG"

Being realistic though, as a New Zealander i don't think we're better than australia, and hope that australia do well. It's just the mentality of a minority of posters on these forums, australians who think we're going to concede rugby scores at the world cup, and New Zealanders who think we're better than some teams at the world cup! We have a long way to go in terms of our quality as a footballing country, but this is a start and to be honest, I'd be stoked with 0-4 to italy, and 0-2 to the other two. Scoring a goal would be faaaaarking wicked, but having attended the second leg against bahrain i have concluded that Smeltz couldn't score in a brothel. I am looking forward to the world cup with anticipation whether we get thrashed or not, as it will be the first time in aaaaaaaages that NZ has had decent preparation before competition game(s), and will be a chance for the A-League and the might of the NZFC to be on show to the world. Best of luck with serbia, they're going to be tricky, as we will find out during our warm up matches.

kiwi mentality:

first its
"we have better players than you"

and then its
"ok fine you are right, we suck but you suck too"

what will it be next?

Mavross:

I've never said Australia will get out of the group, I think you'll find most of the responses are due to kiwi fans stating that your players are better than Australia's without any justification.

I fully agree with you and think it is unlikely Australia will be able to progress past the group stage.

I do not agree that you are good enough to beat australia currently in a game that has any sort of significance however.

I hope for both our sides own good that the up coming friendly is treated as such and players are not going in too hard causing any of our sides to have players injured for the world cup.

The All Whites might not be as good on paper as the Socceroos but are good enough to beat the Socceroos. It matters not as Aus wont get out of the group with Germany and Serbia then you wil say oh but they fought well looked better on papaer than NZ blah blah blah. The end result will be the same for both countrys neither will progress past the groups, despite your arrogance (I mean optimism)

griffiths is a far more talented player than smeltz. he is indeed a cockhead but at least hes a better footballer. archie thompson is also a better footballer but what i will give to smeltz is that he does know how to score goals and is currently indeed the best striker in the HAL.

but to say he would walk into our squad when superior players like griffiths and djite could not is just laughable.

smeltz isnt your best striker because the others play at a higher level? then please explain to me why wood is sitting on the bench for smeltz whos even been highlighted by herbet as the key to your attack?

the fallon comment is hilariously, i mean, if you even bothered to watch him play for plymouth youd see hes a bloody league 1 player at best. he has no business playing in the championship and is always out of his depth.

killen is a nice physically imposing player and has found his level at the championship but is about as useful as a donkey with his feet and for someone to say he is better than mcdonald - when mcdonald was not only forcing killen to play reserves at celtic, but was also playing better than killen despite the fact he was playing with injury this season for boro just says it all

kennedy is not the greatest player, but he has played at a higher level than all of your striker combined and is in very good form at the moment. for sure we arent confident in seeing him play against serbia and whatnot, but if i had to pick between him and killen/smeltz/fallon....theres only 1 player who i would have playing

if kennedy was kiwi he'd be your starting striker, no questions asked. it would be kennedy up top with smeltz or killen playing off him or however your formation lines up

gotta love kiwi enthusiasm, bless them.

in particular, comparing dave mulligan to simon colosimo because they played in the a-league and because of that, they are deemed "equal"

colosimo:best defender in the a-league
mulligan:released from welly and is looking to play semi pro football in NZ

:oops:

another fantastic comparison was the one where someonne said vescelish(sp) is better than moore because he has the experience of being a relegation battler in the eredivisie i mean FMD:lol:!!!! moore is nothing like he used to be but he always was, and still is a better player than some nobody who spent his glory days in the dutch second division

at the end of the day, NO kiwi player would even get into our XI besides Nelsen

and after him, no kiwi player other than Reid based on face value would even get into our 23 man squad

still sticking with this strategy of debate i see. Smeltz is no better than Archie Thompson...and Thompson is no walk up for us....so why would Smeltz be? And again, we all know the reason why Griffiths hasn't been involved at nt level.




wow...i'm impressed by your arbitrary rankings...NOT!! so a guy that has scored a goal at championship level is ahead of Smeltz? yeah, whatever!



Kennedy can't play the lone role? since when?

this is getting ridiculous....

Edited by cool_cat2007: 11/5/2010 02:52:40 PM

Squad vs Tanzania:

1-Mark PASTON (GK), 3-Tony LOCHHEAD, 6-Ivan VICELICH, 8-Tim BROWN (Captain), 9-Shane SMELTZ (16-Chris JAMES 75), 11-Leo BERTOS, 14-Jeremy CHRISTIE (7-Simon ELLIOTT 55), 15-Jeremy BROCKIE (13-Andy BARRON 75), 17-David MULLIGAN, 19-Steven OLD, 20-Chris WOOD (10-Chris KILLEN 55).

Not too far off your A squad actually

squad vs Thailand:
Glen MOSS (GK), Aaron SCOTT, Ryan NELSEN (Captain), Andrew BOYENS, Tony LOCHHEAD, Simon ELLIOTT, Tim BROWN, Jeremy CHRISTIE, Jeremy BROCKIE (Kris BOUCKENOOGHE 83), Chris JAMES, Shane SMELTZ.

Again very much close to a full strength squad for you again.

cmon-nix:

as stated Kewell is considered a forward but I would still not rate your attack over Australia's even if he was excluded:

Killen - 5 goals since 2007 for his club sides, is a good comparison with McDonald as they have been at the same clubs, I won't even bother going too much into as it is clear to see that while macca has banged them in, Killen has had a front row seat to the show on the pine.

Fallon - 5 goals this season in the Championship, is not exactly a prolific striker, could compare him with Kennedy. Kennedy has 7 goals already this season after only 9 games, has played at a higher level than Fallon also and more proven on the international stage.

Smeltz - Undisputed scoring record in the A-League and consistent scorer also, a big asset to any squad, that being said he has not been proven outside of Australia besides lower, lower, lower league in England.

I think it's great for the record that NZ is involved in the world cup and hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things for the future of the game in your great country.

By all means talk up your squad and coach but do not try and make a comparison to other nations as you simply do not have the stocks yet, your getting there but the simple fact is you are a long way behind the rest of the world, before getting respect from other nations or Australia you need to have some proven results or performances, not a one off loss to Italy's B side that you are all treating like a victory for you guys.

The results have shown how much you have struggled against poor sides lately and the display put on at the confederations cup was well not worth mentioning.

The thing on your side this year like it was for Australia last year is the element of surprise, other teams will not rate you and will not know much about you so hopefully you can use that to advantage, also you have a pretty weak group overall so I think you could get something off Paraguay.

diego's son, doubt we fly Air NZ cause Thai Airways bought the lead sponsorship rights of the AllWhites waaaay back in the day when they were worth $3.40 instead of the tenner now.

just going to point out that New Zealand played Tanzania/Fiji/Thailand B without a full strength side. In fact, the Fiji game was the NZFC-Whites if i remember correctly.

ah, i see this is going to descend in to one of those x is better than y debates. it's irrelevant in this case, because Griffiths didn't make the cut while Smeltz is your main man in terms of striking options.

Thats right Griffiths didn't even make the cut and Smeltz would walk into the socceroos squad. But don't forget Smeltz is not NZ's best striker and plays at the lowest level of all 4 our stikers as Wood, Fallon, Killen are all playing at a higher level.

Kewell is injured so there goes the depth in attack. So you have McDonald, Kennedy, Ruka. Not bad to be honest but all 3 cant really play the lone striker role well

Cmon-Nix. Kewell is actually a very good striker (probably Australia's best in fact). However with his niggles and a tough Germany, Serbia and also Ghana I don't see how it's going to make a difference as Pim won't allow the Aus strikers to play with more than 1 upfront. They always defend well and control the midfield well but eventually you need to score.

And to Coolcat. Against the Netherlands was a friendly and it was Schwarzer not Moore that held on as Netherlands looked the better side (as they are). On the other hand also in friendly NZ scored against world champions Italy 3 times and lost eventually as we were outclassed, but point remains NZ can score as they have the strikers and formation to do so.

in quite a few matches he was playing as a striker for Gala this season. he can play 2nd striker/left mid/in the hole. he's probably more effective as a striker these days.

Midfielder

ah, i see this is going to descend in to one of those x is better than y debates. it's irrelevant in this case, because Griffiths didn't make the cut while Smeltz is your main man in terms of striking options.

well, it's important to remember we are talking about a partnership and how well they function together. you are going in to a World cup with an untested duo. we are not talking individually. as a partnership, Moore/Neil looked quite assured against the Netherlands in the 0-0 result and did well in the few qualifiers they played in. i'm hoping they use all that experience, because they'll need it. I haven't seen any evidence that suggests your cb's form a better defence, and the ones that have played have produced terrible results in confeds, and friendlies LIKE Tanzania/Fiji/Thailand B. it's just a fact.

and I recall Greece winning the Euro with a similar formation

"and there is no question our strikers are better "

lets see:

Kewell, McDonald and Kennedy

vs

Smeltz, Fallon and Killen

No question NZ strickers are better? You have got to be kidding me!

Also to Mavross..

You are correct games are won by scoring not defending, as shown by your great coach Ricky in the confederations cup? a master class of attacking flair you guys showed against good teams there..

Pim predictably chose Moore. So our defence will most likely be a Schwarzer/Wilkshire/Moore/Neil/Chipperfield


That right so predictably teams with quality like Germany will expose Moore and yes Schwarzer keeper is heaps better than Moss so Aus defence overall is better. But in CB's first choice players. I would rather Nelson/Reid over Moore and Neil (Neil is great but can't cover for Moore's lack of pace), the idea is to mix experience with age.

Griffiths is not as good as Smeltz thats plain to see without youre green and gold glasses on.

Anyway games are won by scoring not defending all day and so thats where you are stuffed with Pim as coach holding back your strikers talents with his shit formation that won't change. NZ have Ricky who can play 3 strikers and is not scared to mix it up a little.

Mavross, you may think it's a joke that i rate Griffiths over Smeltz. but the guy's performing and scoring goals at a higher level than Smetz. I think Joel is a far more dangerous proposition for defenders because he's more mobile, he drags defenders out of position, can shoot from distance, and is just as effective as Smeltz in the box.

and mate, most of our top players at one time or another have been linked with big moves to top clubs. what does that have to do with anything? ljubo milicevic was playing for a good club in Switzerland and playing champions league against Arsenal - was linked with premier league teams also. But look where he is now...it's the harsh reality of football. one day you can be linked with the best clubs in the world, the next your form falls away, get an injury, or you just make a terrible career decision. circumstances can change in the blink of an eye

as far as NZ having better defence...still scratching my head over that one...as far as i can recall, goal keepers are part of that defence.

Pim predictably chose Moore. So our defence will most likely be a Schwarzer/Wilkshire/Moore/Neil/Chipperfield

Edited by cool_cat2007: 11/5/2010 12:16:32 PM

To Coolcat. You seriously way underrate the Danish league. FC Copenhagen have beaten Manchester United in the past in Champions League if I'm not mistaken, I don't think even my beloved MVFC could manage that - fluke or not.

Wynston Reid must be a quality defender for Serie A clubs to look at him. But without playing next to Nelson as yet will make it hard to comment as they are an unproven pairing (heres hoping they gel well), we still have matches against Aus and Serbia before WC to test combinations.

Pim has surprised me with his selection in stikers for Aus in Ruka and Mcdonald (good choices). But this will count for nothing if he continues to play only 1 striker upfront.

Edited by mavross: 11/5/2010 12:15:36 PM

I never said we own you in defense, I said [size=9] I THINK [/size] NZ are better in defense, and there is no question our strikers are better

Griffiths better than Smeltz my arse. After reading all this tripe Aus fans put up (not all but in general) I really hope Kewell is not ready in time and Germany and Serbia give you a good football lesson. I like the socceroos but their supporters arrogance has me hoping they get taught a few lessons. Go NZ vs Italy if we dont give away a late penalty we might stand a chance ay !!!

oh Cmon-Nix...

you want us all to get along and come out with dribble stating that NZ has a better defense and strike force?

Ok Nelson is the only player who would start for Australia, the only player.

your players are good honest workman like triers, I hope you guys do well at the cup and are able to grab a point or two in the process but don't get wrapped up in the excitement too much to a point where you are blind to your absolute lack of ability compared to the rest of the world.

The only team comparable in this world cup would be Nth Korea and they would school you anyway.

It's going to be a great even and I like all of you can't wait, but don't come on an Australian site and say that NZ owns us in Defence and Forwards, it's a moronic statement.

And Chris Killen is pants as well, worst loan we ever had at Norwich 2 season's ago, just terrible.

Yes our squad is one of the weakest at the cup, BUT we aren't that far behind you.

You own us in midfield and between the sticks, but I think we have the better defense and there is no question that our strikers are much better than yours. SO calm the hell down, stop bagging us and lets support each other in South Africa!!

Okay, I have to respond to cool_cats bull about our players with an informed view:

James Bannatyne (Team Wellington) - Not the best, I'll give you that but third choice keeper


Glen Moss (Melbourne Victory) Bad season, was not helped by terrible MV defence at the time, more of a scape goat than anything. Had a great confederations cup, conceded a number of goals but that was more down to defensive errors, he made a lot of brilliant saves. Also has top flight European experience. (Dinamo Bucharest) as well as a brilliant final season at the Nix.


Mark Paston (Wellington Phoenix) Briliant season for Nix, amazing penalty save vs Bahrain to take us through. Cool calm and collected.


Andy Boyens (New York Red Bulls) MLS experience, has some blunders but reasonably solid, a good back up.


Tony Lochhead (Wellington Phoenix) Inconsistant yes, but when on form is great goin forward up left.


David Mulligan (unattached) Yep - Rubbish!! Great @ set pieces but that's about it.


Ryan Nelsen (Blackburn Rovers) Blackburn Rovers captain, extremely solid, was amazing vs Bahrain, 4 or 5 premier league goals this season.


Winston Reid (FC Midtjylland) 21 I think? First team member for top flight team, absolutely key. Being chased by a number of Serie A clubs, will definately strenghten us at the back!


Ben Sigmund (Wellington Phoenix) Good back up, solid, works extremely hard and wears heart on his sleve. Stands up for the big games.

Tommy Smith (Ipswich) Exciting young prospect, quite a bit of Championship football experience.


Ivan Vicelich (Auckland City) A number of seasons in Eredivisie, only came home to concentrate on family, still very good. Also very versatile.


Andy Barron (Team Wellington) Although playing at a low level is rumoured to join Phoenix this season, plays above his level. Very consistant and is a star in NZFC.


Leo Bertos (Wellington Phoenix) Creative, the star of the Bahrain playoff.


Jeremy Brockie (Newcastle Jets) Had a great season before THAT tackle. Tore Melbourne to shreds in Townsville. Good back up (Would still have rather taken Costa Barbarouses, but still happy with Jeremy)

Tim Brown (Wellington Phoenix) Scored a lot of goals this season for a defensive midfielder, makes great late runs into box


Aaron Clapham (Canterbury United) The star of the NZFC this season, creative which we need in midfield, very young, big future ahead of him.


Jeremy Christie (FC Tampa Bay) Bit miffed with his selection, versatile and consistant but just not that good.


Simon Elliott (unattached) Old, slow, but great passing ability, amazing vision, great free kicks. Will add valuable experience in midfield and knows how to tackle, good work rate for an old guy.

Michael McGlinchey (Motherwell) When on form is very good. Hasnt played enough lately

Rory Fallon (Plymouth Argyle) Championship striker, holds ball up well, scored THAT goal.


Chris Killen (Middlesbrough) Championship striker


Shane Smeltz (Gold Coast United) Golden boot twice in a row, A-Leagues hottest property, will be overseas very soon, plays below his level in A-League.


Chris Wood (West Bromwich Albion) A lot of first team action for a youngster, Premier league debut at just 17. First goal was a 30 metre screamer, West Broms young player of the season, huge premier league future ahead of him. Holds ball up well, finishes beautifully.

Everyone just calm down. The match in Melbourne doesn't matter win, lose or draw to anyone. Why don't we just cheer each other on? We have a shared history and our cultural identities are quite similar..

Why all this bitching to each other on an internet forum?

Let's all get along, Aussies should cheer Kiwis on, and vice versa.

Edit; Also, to the bloke that pretty much said the NZ team was shit. You do realise that they are in the World Cup,a dn earned the right to be there, right? You do realise they've been to a world cup before aswell mate?

Seriously. Get off your fucking horse. I would love to have Nelsen as a CB partnering with Neill.

Edited by Draupnir: 11-5-2010 02:23:46

By the way, is Air NZ flying the NZ crew to Jo'burg? Just out of curiosity.

Edited by diego's son: 11/5/2010 12:59:17 AM

marius, you should wiki Kisnorob, he's done more than you think (even if he played like a noob at the Asian Cup).

but good luck to the Reed lad, although it sounds like I couldn't give 2 shits, i'm still always interested in how your top players perform (for some twisted reason)




indeed.






Rhys Williams plays regularly at that level and also helped Burnley to promotion the previous season. Lowry can play that level as well.




Edited by cool_cat2007: 10/5/2010 11:55:05 PM

you mean the first choice pairing that have never played together before..and the one you've never seen play? ok fair enough. you say there's little difference between the quality of our top choice cb's to theirs, you then go on to say we only have a little more depth? if they lose a few key players, they have to dig up semi-pro players. it's all relative. furthermore, various Kiwi's claimed we have 'massive' gaps in defence. so i felt compelled to contest that 'point'. i also addressed each individual comment that was made on our players. if i were going to use any defender to argue my point that our central defence is superior, it wouldn't be Colosimo. we have defenders who are performing at a higher level than him at the moment (but yeah, he adds to that depth). Colosimo was brought in to the conversation by another poster. I was simply of the opinion that Colosimo is better than most of their defenders anyway (sigmund plays cb, lochhead, Boyens etc) . the point is moot, because we don't know the squad as of yet. furthermore, in regard to talent, you require it to play any professional sports...it's irrelevant here. there are talented kids running around on the weekends, there are more factors to be considered. the question is do these kiwi defenders have the qualities all round, ability and big match experience? they have been relatively untested. Confed Cup was a resounding failure! the point is we have have the players that are up to the big pressure cooker matches, who have endured a long and arduous campaign. could NZ go through a similar stage of qualifying conceding 1 goal? but alas, i'm kinda ranting now aren't i...




they finished 6 points off relegation, and equal 3rd worst in goals conceded. will you retract that statement of this 10 year old club if they get relegated?




forgive me of being highly dubious that this was the sole reasoning for his lack of game time in that 2 year period.




well this would explain the incoherent nature of some of those lists. of course i was referring to Joel Griffiths. JimmyO claimed he would win a spot in NZ's squad amongst others. Marius responded stating Griffiths as a 'tradesman' which i thought was a puzzling comment. so I clarified, referring to Joel hence "joel griffiths over Smeltz' comment. no one here would considers Adam as a contender. that's ridiculous, and he's a defensive midfielder which we have zillions of..



Edited by cool_cat2007: 11/5/2010 12:12:58 AM

I hope they do well and yes, embarrass Italy.