lambs to the slaughter


What do you think about the FourFourTwo article Kiwis Name Their World Cup Squad?
CANTERBURY'S Aaron Clapham was the surprise inclusion when the New Zealand World Cup squad was announced in Auckland today.

Have your say.

If you blokes win one game...please make Italy.

To be smacked from pillar to post, unattached player, wtf?

Jeremy Brockie - Good enough for world cup, not good enough for a-league? According to most people anyway. I've never seen him play.

Costa Barbarouses?

FFA wants us to pay good money to see this rubbish team???

he was starting to string some games together, but then got his leg broke. not too sure how he gets picked.


David Mulligan's inclusion is even funnier. ironically picked by the same coach who doesn't play him! wtf LOL

Isn't Moss suspended until the final group game?

Combined with the fact he sux, what's the point of picking him?

Oh god I can't wait until you and your team of geriatrics are on the same flight home as us with your tail between your legs having acheived your goal of being the most boring team at the tournament!

We call shotgun on the aisle seats\:d/

yeah, you guys are f'n cocky given the gaps in your side. at the centre of defence and up front there is not a lot between your squad and ours.

fuk yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
go clapham...dandy thunder star! was loaned to canterbury this season, was due to return (but fuk it, ur goin world cup) sik cunt...were all proud of ya!

Wicked, I like the fact they brought in two other countrys players. I think it's good initiative. Hey not the worst squad in the world. I think we may see them do ok. I hope they win some.

Woah Marius, the only defender Australia could want from the All Whites is Nelsen, while up front we still have better options than NZ. The likes of Colosimo, Holman, Carle & Griffiths would crawl into your team.

you Australians are so fucking arrogant.

concentrate on your own fucking team before you come onto forums and bash ours.

you guys are going to get a wake-up call at the WC. Wait and see....

Sam, we'll worry about our group, you worry about yours. We're playing in different groups at the Cup, just leave it at that.

@JimmyO You would take Reid aswell, ranked in the top 5 players in the Danish Premier Division last year and reportedly on the radar of Premier League and Serie A clubs.

While I dont whole heartedly agree with Marius I think the way you guys play means that we could give you a good run in Melbourne. Nelsen/Reid/Vicelich/Sigmund will be able to control Kennedy and the bombs that will rain down.

I think the squad is ok, I dont think they will disgrace themselves anyway.

If I was Aussie coach I'd take Killen in the Aussie squad if he was eligible - you lads have massive gaps there. I think the NZ squad is good in defence and attack and is only missing out in midfield.

One mistake is bringing both Christie and Mulligan. Only one of them is necassary (or neither - we could bring Duncan Oughton in from the MLS). And Moss shouldn't come, Spoonley should take his spot. And to those who chuckle as if they have a clue about the fact Mulligan never played for the Phoenix (not much, anyway) but got selected for the All Whites by the same coach, you have no idea. The other players in the squad make it very different. Brown, Muscat, Ferrante and McKain could all play in Mulligan's position and this kept him out. Like I said, the All Whites are weak in midfield and the players are different so there's nothing funny or strange about Mulligan being there.

Could you be a more patronising arrogant cock? Honestly, you should try harder at it because it would be funny to see if you can get any worse.

The other players in the Phoenix squad make it very different.*

you must be kidding right?? and lets not forget the fact that the majority of your squad stopped playing months ago. We are stronger than you in 99% of positions. the only guy you can fall back on is that old war horse Nelson, who only got his starting position back after an injury to Samba!


James Bannatyne (Team Wellington) playing at state league level


Glen Moss (Melbourne Victory) sitting on the pine


Mark Paston (Wellington Phoenix) injured. in fact, Reddy looked superior in every way to Paston


Andy Boyens (New York Red Bulls) plays in MLS


Tony Lochhead (Wellington Phoenix) very inconsistent defender. a massive liability who concedes penalties for fun


David Mulligan (unattached) ironically picked by the same coach who doesn't play him! wtf LOL


Ryan Nelsen (Blackburn Rovers) old war horse, getting slower by the day


Winston Reid (FC Midtjylland) picked on hyped up dvd's


Ben Sigmund (Wellington Phoenix) incredibly slow andtechnically inspipid


Tommy Smith (Ipswich) bench warmer


Ivan Vicelich (Auckland City) plays state league level


Andy Barron (Team Wellington) plays state league level


Leo Bertos (Wellington Phoenix) first half of hal season was good, 2nd half, dreadful


Jeremy Brockie (Newcastle Jets) broke his leg, but still somehow in the squad?


Tim Brown (Wellington Phoenix) one dimensional midfielder


Aaron Clapham (Canterbury United) plays state league level


Jeremy Christie (FC Tampa Bay) 2nd tier in US!!


Simon Elliott (unattached) old war horse way past expiry date


Michael McGlinchey (Motherwell) doesn't play


Rory Fallon (Plymouth Argyle) league 1 striker


Chris Killen (Middlesbrough) sits on the pine


Shane Smeltz (Gold Coast United) good at a-league level


Chris Wood (West Bromwich Albion) doesn't feature in match day squads

Edited by cool_cat2007: 10/5/2010 01:57:14 PM

Can you be our new coach please as your understanding of NZ players is without equal.

We have some serious limitations, no question. But the quality of our fringe players is really a bit of a red herring. 11 v 11 we are still massive underdogs but capable of making life difficult.

I do think Australia will have issues at centre of defence and real trouble if Neil got injured. Moore is past it, Griffiths a journeyman, North only good enough for Norway and COlosimo only good enough for the A-League. The AWs actually do have better credentialled centre backs. The Socceroos also have problems up front, esp with Kewell marginal.

And having said that I will be supporting the aussies. I hope they do well. I respect the success they have had in recent years. They're a good side, but not without their own personnel gaps.

FInally, DS, when your mates choose to slag off our squad, I deem that an invitation to take a closer look at yours. All the same Id be grateful if you could clarify your rules for me. Am I allowed to comment on any side outside NZ's group or not? And until when? Until the world cup begins? til it finishes? is this restriction limited to internet sites or all conversation? It is really lucky we have such great footballing minds and world game experts in Australia from whom we can learn so much.

Yours gratefully.

why do you even need to waste your time on commenting on this post all you fags who say nothing but "yous are gonna be boring..." blah blah blah half of us dont even give a shit on what you have to say so you can go shove right back up your hole and stop wasting your time fags

Don't get too worked up mate. I'm sure that most Aussies like myself will be cheering on the all whites. After all, we do like a good underdog.

I really hope the A-League players of the squad can do really well and learn a thing or two and come back next year with a heapful of confidence. As for Moss...why is he in. If he was in against Bahrain we wouldnt even be having this discussion!

Griffiths over Smeltz anyday...

And yes, maybe Moore is past it. but If you are talking credentials for cb's, Moore wins out. I'm not sure what you meant by that. Mainly Moore's attitude is what brought him back from Greece. And Lucas Neil knocked back Liverpool because of $$$ and went on to play for West Ham and Everton before joining European giant Gala. Nelson's happy enough just to be playing for a lower table premier league team

The issue is Pim chooses to select mates. It's unfortunate that Kisnorbo is out (even though i don't rate him), but we still have some guys performing for top clubs in Asia. We have more depth than you in every position, guys like Madaschi would walk in to your team.

Younger guys like Ryhs williams can cover in that position also



Edited by cool_cat2007: 10/5/2010 03:38:44 PM

lol @ fags.... How old are you? There's some pretty angry words there tiger!

Mulligan has to be the most perplexing inclusion in any world cup squad ever

Hang on wasn't being past it one of the issues you had with a number of the All Whites?

No that would be Mike Bassetts selection of Tonka Tonkinson for the world cup in Brazil but in the end he was vindicated so perhaps the selection of Mulligan will be to :)

^^ ok he's past it :lol: but what perplexed me was when Marius said the Kiwi cb's are better credentialed. since when did they play champions league and win their domestic league multiple times for example?

the real issue is, we have better options available, but our coach refuses to play them

Edited by cool_cat2007: 10/5/2010 04:08:10 PM

I'm proud of who I am, what about you?

Nothing else you've said above warrants a response.

well, credentials are somebody's qualifications for the job. Wynton Rufer had a great career but obviously he's not qualified to play up front this year in SA. he doesnt have the credentials.

in terms of qualifications to play at centre back this world cup, i think it is quite reasonable to point out your stocks are not as impressive as you might think, even relative to sad NZ:

Neil. No argument.
Moore. Great CV, but now A League/Greece and 36.
Kisnorbo. Injured. League 1/Championship player.
North. 2nd tier leagues.
Colosimo. A League.
Griffiths. Tradesman.

Nelsen. No argument. Premiership skipper. 4 goals this season for good measure.
Reid. About to win Danish cup. Uefa cup experience. Has worn Captain's armband this year at only 21.
Vicelich. 150 games in the Eredivise (and 3 years younger than Moore), but yes now playing at home - although for family reasons.
Smith. Championship defender.
Boyens. MLS.
Sigmund. A League.

all sensible debate welcomed.

All of the Serbian team would walk into the Australian side -- apart maybe apart from their keeper.

all of the England players would crawl into the Aus side.

i am excited...

Please don't take coolcat's naivety seriously. The thing with the New Zealand players is taht they're relatively unknown, this doesn't mean that they don't have any footballing ability. We've seen that they defeated a team that Australia struggled against.

Re: Chirs Killen: While he hasnt' been bagging the goals, he has been playing regularly at 'boro in 2010. And he's probably New Zealand's best option right now. It will be interesting to see how he goes.


I don't know about that. Certainly Kacar and Vidic would down back. Jovanovic and Zigic up front. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Kuzmanovic. But that's about it.

Marius, you forgot Spiranovic, McKain, Milligan, Williams and Beauchamp, which adds significant depth to the aussie defence. There's quality tehre in Moore, Spira, Williams, Neill and if you wanted to stretch it...Milligan, Beauchamp and Kisnorbo.

Vicelich, Ried and Nelsen are all good options down back for New Zealand, but other than Nelsen there's little experience against particularly tallented strikers and they will struggle to keep organised under intense pressure. Particularly when it's likely that all three will start with NZ playing five at the back.

Cool Cat, I understand you know a fair bit about Australian football, good on you, but your knowledge on NZ Football is embarrassing. The way you gave a brief summary of each player in the All Whites illustrated your ignorance and the fact that you probably required Wikipedia to find out who most of the players represent. For example, you mocking Winston Reid (or at least our selection of him) because we used DVD's? That doesn't make him a less complete footballer because our coach hasn't seen him in the flesh, for all we know he could be not far behind Nelsen. What we do know is that he's quality and this is going by more than internet articles, DVD's, and the odd youtube clip. Major clubs are/and have in the past been interested in him and reports coming out of Denmark suggest he's the next big thing in the Danish league. Add to that your derision of Vicelich for playing 'state league' when he could have played in most A-League teams when he returned to NZ and could probably have returned to Europe was embarrassing to read. You can't mock a man for family reasons.

I could go on but I fear I'll be at my laptop all night trying to cover all the rubbish you've posted. I think you should look long and hard (hilarious, I said long and hard!) at your squad before passing judgment on ours. Old Aussie are in for a big shock this World Cup, pun intended.

fight fight fight hahahaha competetive!! :)

Go the kiwis, there are some decent players in you squad, hope you guys do well for the benefit of both New Zealand and Australasian football

its ok to bitch about each other here, i just hope we unite when we take it on the world stage as were both massive underdogs
that said i see aust having a legitimate chance of making the second round, whereas how many people would respond the same in regards to nz?

Once upon a time there was a team called France. Despite having won the World Cup 4 years prior, as well as having the likes of Zidane, Vieira and Henry (all in their prime) playing in the team, they went to the 2002 World Cup Finals where they failed to win a single game or even score a solitary goal.

The moral of the story here is that sometimes team line-ups don't mean jack shit.

Think it's pretty obvious that Aussie can name a better squad than us - that isn't even debatable.

we have more defenders than that. the point i'd like to expand on is, it doesn't matter who your core group is, if you get an injury, in one or 2 key positions, you are practically a state league team.




he's only in the running because Pim prefers mates.

Yet somehow you justify Vicelich's current playing situation and boast about his past playing achievements. now in the NZ championship because it's for 'family' reasons. like he had a choice :lol:



that was his solitary season in league 1 (though he played well in the F.A. cup against good sides). he's basically a championship player through and through.



same level as your 'superstar' wynton Reed



and championship winner. should be playing in Korea if not for paperwork bungle



playing ACL and excelling against top teams in the ACL



not a great level. sorry.



isn't a first team player

I'm sorry, but I don't get how a player who's played in the UEFA cup for a top team in denmark means he has an inferior resume to a guy who plays A-League and another player who your selling point is that he has played ACL and done miserably in it.

IIRC his child is mentally retarded and he was diagnosed with depression prior to his return to New Zealand. I think that's plenty of reason to decide that he isn't up for professional football and training 5 days a week over in europe tbh. That doesn't mean he's not a talented footballer.

Marius you say Kisnorbo is a leg 1/ championship player. Might I remind you that he took on the likes of Berbatov and Rooney and kept them scoreless, not to mention that 2 seasons ago he had EPL clubs after him but he decided to be loyal to liecester. Patty might not be an outstanding player but at the 2014 world cup he will be the one leading our defence.

when did i say Colosimo had a superior resume?

Marius attempted to strengthen his position by stating North plays in the '2nd tier'. it didn't make much sense and was inaccurate considering the league levels are pretty comparable to that of his 'superstar' player.

if you are going to play devils advocate, at least get the facts straight. how is Midtjylland a top team in Denmark? they haven't won a championship and in relation to their Euro adventure, they've lost out in qualifying rounds in the Uefa Cup. that was their highlight.

as for your latter point that Vicelich's circumstances prevented him from continuing in Europe, it doesn't change the fact that Vicelich's career was winding down and wasn't playing much for Waalwijk. No one said he wasn't talented. but he was nothing special.

As for Griffiths, you obviously aren't keeping up with what's going on in the ACL.

CC, we can go on, and I shall for just a bit longer

I can respond and tell you that Reid played against Man City in the Eufa and beat them in Manchester. I think you'll find he has his back to the camera in the photo for this BBC story - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7551402.stm
Every dog has his day, Kisnorbo too.
I can add that Tommy Smith is playing regularly for Ipswich at the moment (yes, it took an injury for him to grab a starting spot, but that is football). In fact, a few weeks ago he played the full 90 mins against Newcastle United (and I think it was at St James Park), a game they drew. That i suggest is probably better football than any of your defenders have been playing in recent times, with the exception of Neil (and I would suggest Newcastle would go ok in Turkey).

You have a better squad than us, no argument. But we have some useful players. I dont see why you have to rubbish them for the sake of it, esp when, in the case of these defenders, they stand favourably alongside your own crowd?

You used it as an argument as to why our defence is better than theirs. It's really not the point here. There's little difference in the center halves between the two sides, while we might have a little more depth, they've got more or less the same level of talent in their first choice players.

Midtjylland finished runners up in the 07 and 08 seasons and 4th last season, I'd say they're a top side.

The reason Vicelich didn't play much for Wallwijk was because of injury and said depression. Not because of any lack of ability.

Re: The Griffiths point, you can't be talking about Joel because he's not a defender. That would be just foolish. And Adam has played two league games in three years and has been mediocre at best for Adelaide, being ad fault for several of their goals.

apologies, that wasnt reid in the photo, but he did play the full 90

not sure why you kiwi's are surprised with the banter on this site?

This is the "AUSTRALIAN" 442 site..

As to a question of quality there is no point in comparing, us aussie's will over rate our plays as you kiwi's will do with your lot.

Just enjoy being part of the world cup, it's going to be great!!

The only thing I hope is that New Zealand put up a better display than in the confederation cup, it was embarrassing the way the other teams were able to control the games so easily and even worse the display shown after drawing a match against Iraq, the coach and player jumping around like they had won after Moss was the only thing that kept the score level.

to coolcat etc., australia has a superior line-up to ours, but your side isn't shit hot either.

On the NZ line-up, Christie before Duncan Oughton and Mulligan before Chris James...WTF??

Also, i'd be tempted to put in Kris Bright over Jeremy Brockie, as Brockie (like ferrante) would be a better as a rugby player, where the object is to put the ball OVER the crossbar.

Good luck New Zealand (you'll need all you can get), especially hope the HAL guys do our league proud.

I kept my mouth shut, unusually, 'cause as a loyal Australian citizen who lives and works in Christchurch I actually am sitting on the fence. I support both teams passionately. However, reality check will tell us that, no matter how long we analyse each player in isolation, the truth is the newly-selected All Whites have rather little cohesion due to to little time spent together at decent games. OK, they got overawed at the Confeds Cup (I cringed watching Ricky Herbert delirious with joy at drawing nil-all with Iraq). OK, they played a very decent game against Bahrain in Manama (nil all), better than the 1:0 win at home later. But they do not have much of an "instant" understanding that comes from playing together, and little experience, relatively speaking, together as one team.
Anyway, I am excited at the game on 24th May, because whatever way it ends, my team will win (unless it is a draw).

WWW.PREMIERSHIP.ALTERVISTA.ORG

WATCH ALL FOOTBALL MATCHES ON WEB-TV: A-LEAGUE, AFC CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, PREMIER LEAGUE, LIGA, SERIE A, BUNDESLIGA, LIGUE 1, WORLD CUP 2010, CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, EUROPA LEAGUE AND MUCH MORE

Good luck NZ

I was wondering what else I could add here until I read Davstar's signature quote above this post

"Superman wears Tim Cahill pyjamas".

And I'll leave it at that. No more needs to be said until a quick paragraph after the Aus vs NZ game, then everyone can turn their focus onto the real show.

Edited by diego's son: 10/5/2010 10:49:37 PM

shame chris james didnt make the squad.
i liked him at the Confed Cup.

Anyways Ive seen worse squads. Good luck NZ
Hope the HAL players do well.

I hope they do well and yes, embarrass Italy.

you mean the first choice pairing that have never played together before..and the one you've never seen play? ok fair enough. you say there's little difference between the quality of our top choice cb's to theirs, you then go on to say we only have a little more depth? if they lose a few key players, they have to dig up semi-pro players. it's all relative. furthermore, various Kiwi's claimed we have 'massive' gaps in defence. so i felt compelled to contest that 'point'. i also addressed each individual comment that was made on our players. if i were going to use any defender to argue my point that our central defence is superior, it wouldn't be Colosimo. we have defenders who are performing at a higher level than him at the moment (but yeah, he adds to that depth). Colosimo was brought in to the conversation by another poster. I was simply of the opinion that Colosimo is better than most of their defenders anyway (sigmund plays cb, lochhead, Boyens etc) . the point is moot, because we don't know the squad as of yet. furthermore, in regard to talent, you require it to play any professional sports...it's irrelevant here. there are talented kids running around on the weekends, there are more factors to be considered. the question is do these kiwi defenders have the qualities all round, ability and big match experience? they have been relatively untested. Confed Cup was a resounding failure! the point is we have have the players that are up to the big pressure cooker matches, who have endured a long and arduous campaign. could NZ go through a similar stage of qualifying conceding 1 goal? but alas, i'm kinda ranting now aren't i...




they finished 6 points off relegation, and equal 3rd worst in goals conceded. will you retract that statement of this 10 year old club if they get relegated?




forgive me of being highly dubious that this was the sole reasoning for his lack of game time in that 2 year period.




well this would explain the incoherent nature of some of those lists. of course i was referring to Joel Griffiths. JimmyO claimed he would win a spot in NZ's squad amongst others. Marius responded stating Griffiths as a 'tradesman' which i thought was a puzzling comment. so I clarified, referring to Joel hence "joel griffiths over Smeltz' comment. no one here would considers Adam as a contender. that's ridiculous, and he's a defensive midfielder which we have zillions of..



Edited by cool_cat2007: 11/5/2010 12:12:58 AM

marius, you should wiki Kisnorob, he's done more than you think (even if he played like a noob at the Asian Cup).

but good luck to the Reed lad, although it sounds like I couldn't give 2 shits, i'm still always interested in how your top players perform (for some twisted reason)




indeed.






Rhys Williams plays regularly at that level and also helped Burnley to promotion the previous season. Lowry can play that level as well.




Edited by cool_cat2007: 10/5/2010 11:55:05 PM

By the way, is Air NZ flying the NZ crew to Jo'burg? Just out of curiosity.

Edited by diego's son: 11/5/2010 12:59:17 AM

Everyone just calm down. The match in Melbourne doesn't matter win, lose or draw to anyone. Why don't we just cheer each other on? We have a shared history and our cultural identities are quite similar..

Why all this bitching to each other on an internet forum?

Let's all get along, Aussies should cheer Kiwis on, and vice versa.

Edit; Also, to the bloke that pretty much said the NZ team was shit. You do realise that they are in the World Cup,a dn earned the right to be there, right? You do realise they've been to a world cup before aswell mate?

Seriously. Get off your fucking horse. I would love to have Nelsen as a CB partnering with Neill.

Edited by Draupnir: 11-5-2010 02:23:46

Okay, I have to respond to cool_cats bull about our players with an informed view:

James Bannatyne (Team Wellington) - Not the best, I'll give you that but third choice keeper


Glen Moss (Melbourne Victory) Bad season, was not helped by terrible MV defence at the time, more of a scape goat than anything. Had a great confederations cup, conceded a number of goals but that was more down to defensive errors, he made a lot of brilliant saves. Also has top flight European experience. (Dinamo Bucharest) as well as a brilliant final season at the Nix.


Mark Paston (Wellington Phoenix) Briliant season for Nix, amazing penalty save vs Bahrain to take us through. Cool calm and collected.


Andy Boyens (New York Red Bulls) MLS experience, has some blunders but reasonably solid, a good back up.


Tony Lochhead (Wellington Phoenix) Inconsistant yes, but when on form is great goin forward up left.


David Mulligan (unattached) Yep - Rubbish!! Great @ set pieces but that's about it.


Ryan Nelsen (Blackburn Rovers) Blackburn Rovers captain, extremely solid, was amazing vs Bahrain, 4 or 5 premier league goals this season.


Winston Reid (FC Midtjylland) 21 I think? First team member for top flight team, absolutely key. Being chased by a number of Serie A clubs, will definately strenghten us at the back!


Ben Sigmund (Wellington Phoenix) Good back up, solid, works extremely hard and wears heart on his sleve. Stands up for the big games.

Tommy Smith (Ipswich) Exciting young prospect, quite a bit of Championship football experience.


Ivan Vicelich (Auckland City) A number of seasons in Eredivisie, only came home to concentrate on family, still very good. Also very versatile.


Andy Barron (Team Wellington) Although playing at a low level is rumoured to join Phoenix this season, plays above his level. Very consistant and is a star in NZFC.


Leo Bertos (Wellington Phoenix) Creative, the star of the Bahrain playoff.


Jeremy Brockie (Newcastle Jets) Had a great season before THAT tackle. Tore Melbourne to shreds in Townsville. Good back up (Would still have rather taken Costa Barbarouses, but still happy with Jeremy)

Tim Brown (Wellington Phoenix) Scored a lot of goals this season for a defensive midfielder, makes great late runs into box


Aaron Clapham (Canterbury United) The star of the NZFC this season, creative which we need in midfield, very young, big future ahead of him.


Jeremy Christie (FC Tampa Bay) Bit miffed with his selection, versatile and consistant but just not that good.


Simon Elliott (unattached) Old, slow, but great passing ability, amazing vision, great free kicks. Will add valuable experience in midfield and knows how to tackle, good work rate for an old guy.

Michael McGlinchey (Motherwell) When on form is very good. Hasnt played enough lately

Rory Fallon (Plymouth Argyle) Championship striker, holds ball up well, scored THAT goal.


Chris Killen (Middlesbrough) Championship striker


Shane Smeltz (Gold Coast United) Golden boot twice in a row, A-Leagues hottest property, will be overseas very soon, plays below his level in A-League.


Chris Wood (West Bromwich Albion) A lot of first team action for a youngster, Premier league debut at just 17. First goal was a 30 metre screamer, West Broms young player of the season, huge premier league future ahead of him. Holds ball up well, finishes beautifully.

Yes our squad is one of the weakest at the cup, BUT we aren't that far behind you.

You own us in midfield and between the sticks, but I think we have the better defense and there is no question that our strikers are much better than yours. SO calm the hell down, stop bagging us and lets support each other in South Africa!!

oh Cmon-Nix...

you want us all to get along and come out with dribble stating that NZ has a better defense and strike force?

Ok Nelson is the only player who would start for Australia, the only player.

your players are good honest workman like triers, I hope you guys do well at the cup and are able to grab a point or two in the process but don't get wrapped up in the excitement too much to a point where you are blind to your absolute lack of ability compared to the rest of the world.

The only team comparable in this world cup would be Nth Korea and they would school you anyway.

It's going to be a great even and I like all of you can't wait, but don't come on an Australian site and say that NZ owns us in Defence and Forwards, it's a moronic statement.

And Chris Killen is pants as well, worst loan we ever had at Norwich 2 season's ago, just terrible.

Griffiths better than Smeltz my arse. After reading all this tripe Aus fans put up (not all but in general) I really hope Kewell is not ready in time and Germany and Serbia give you a good football lesson. I like the socceroos but their supporters arrogance has me hoping they get taught a few lessons. Go NZ vs Italy if we dont give away a late penalty we might stand a chance ay !!!

I never said we own you in defense, I said [size=9] I THINK [/size] NZ are better in defense, and there is no question our strikers are better

To Coolcat. You seriously way underrate the Danish league. FC Copenhagen have beaten Manchester United in the past in Champions League if I'm not mistaken, I don't think even my beloved MVFC could manage that - fluke or not.

Wynston Reid must be a quality defender for Serie A clubs to look at him. But without playing next to Nelson as yet will make it hard to comment as they are an unproven pairing (heres hoping they gel well), we still have matches against Aus and Serbia before WC to test combinations.

Pim has surprised me with his selection in stikers for Aus in Ruka and Mcdonald (good choices). But this will count for nothing if he continues to play only 1 striker upfront.

Edited by mavross: 11/5/2010 12:15:36 PM

Mavross, you may think it's a joke that i rate Griffiths over Smeltz. but the guy's performing and scoring goals at a higher level than Smetz. I think Joel is a far more dangerous proposition for defenders because he's more mobile, he drags defenders out of position, can shoot from distance, and is just as effective as Smeltz in the box.

and mate, most of our top players at one time or another have been linked with big moves to top clubs. what does that have to do with anything? ljubo milicevic was playing for a good club in Switzerland and playing champions league against Arsenal - was linked with premier league teams also. But look where he is now...it's the harsh reality of football. one day you can be linked with the best clubs in the world, the next your form falls away, get an injury, or you just make a terrible career decision. circumstances can change in the blink of an eye

as far as NZ having better defence...still scratching my head over that one...as far as i can recall, goal keepers are part of that defence.

Pim predictably chose Moore. So our defence will most likely be a Schwarzer/Wilkshire/Moore/Neil/Chipperfield

Edited by cool_cat2007: 11/5/2010 12:16:32 PM

Pim predictably chose Moore. So our defence will most likely be a Schwarzer/Wilkshire/Moore/Neil/Chipperfield


That right so predictably teams with quality like Germany will expose Moore and yes Schwarzer keeper is heaps better than Moss so Aus defence overall is better. But in CB's first choice players. I would rather Nelson/Reid over Moore and Neil (Neil is great but can't cover for Moore's lack of pace), the idea is to mix experience with age.

Griffiths is not as good as Smeltz thats plain to see without youre green and gold glasses on.

Anyway games are won by scoring not defending all day and so thats where you are stuffed with Pim as coach holding back your strikers talents with his shit formation that won't change. NZ have Ricky who can play 3 strikers and is not scared to mix it up a little.

"and there is no question our strikers are better "

lets see:

Kewell, McDonald and Kennedy

vs

Smeltz, Fallon and Killen

No question NZ strickers are better? You have got to be kidding me!

Also to Mavross..

You are correct games are won by scoring not defending, as shown by your great coach Ricky in the confederations cup? a master class of attacking flair you guys showed against good teams there..

ah, i see this is going to descend in to one of those x is better than y debates. it's irrelevant in this case, because Griffiths didn't make the cut while Smeltz is your main man in terms of striking options.

well, it's important to remember we are talking about a partnership and how well they function together. you are going in to a World cup with an untested duo. we are not talking individually. as a partnership, Moore/Neil looked quite assured against the Netherlands in the 0-0 result and did well in the few qualifiers they played in. i'm hoping they use all that experience, because they'll need it. I haven't seen any evidence that suggests your cb's form a better defence, and the ones that have played have produced terrible results in confeds, and friendlies LIKE Tanzania/Fiji/Thailand B. it's just a fact.

and I recall Greece winning the Euro with a similar formation

Midfielder

in quite a few matches he was playing as a striker for Gala this season. he can play 2nd striker/left mid/in the hole. he's probably more effective as a striker these days.

Cmon-Nix. Kewell is actually a very good striker (probably Australia's best in fact). However with his niggles and a tough Germany, Serbia and also Ghana I don't see how it's going to make a difference as Pim won't allow the Aus strikers to play with more than 1 upfront. They always defend well and control the midfield well but eventually you need to score.

And to Coolcat. Against the Netherlands was a friendly and it was Schwarzer not Moore that held on as Netherlands looked the better side (as they are). On the other hand also in friendly NZ scored against world champions Italy 3 times and lost eventually as we were outclassed, but point remains NZ can score as they have the strikers and formation to do so.

ah, i see this is going to descend in to one of those x is better than y debates. it's irrelevant in this case, because Griffiths didn't make the cut while Smeltz is your main man in terms of striking options.

Thats right Griffiths didn't even make the cut and Smeltz would walk into the socceroos squad. But don't forget Smeltz is not NZ's best striker and plays at the lowest level of all 4 our stikers as Wood, Fallon, Killen are all playing at a higher level.

Kewell is injured so there goes the depth in attack. So you have McDonald, Kennedy, Ruka. Not bad to be honest but all 3 cant really play the lone striker role well

just going to point out that New Zealand played Tanzania/Fiji/Thailand B without a full strength side. In fact, the Fiji game was the NZFC-Whites if i remember correctly.

diego's son, doubt we fly Air NZ cause Thai Airways bought the lead sponsorship rights of the AllWhites waaaay back in the day when they were worth $3.40 instead of the tenner now.

cmon-nix:

as stated Kewell is considered a forward but I would still not rate your attack over Australia's even if he was excluded:

Killen - 5 goals since 2007 for his club sides, is a good comparison with McDonald as they have been at the same clubs, I won't even bother going too much into as it is clear to see that while macca has banged them in, Killen has had a front row seat to the show on the pine.

Fallon - 5 goals this season in the Championship, is not exactly a prolific striker, could compare him with Kennedy. Kennedy has 7 goals already this season after only 9 games, has played at a higher level than Fallon also and more proven on the international stage.

Smeltz - Undisputed scoring record in the A-League and consistent scorer also, a big asset to any squad, that being said he has not been proven outside of Australia besides lower, lower, lower league in England.

I think it's great for the record that NZ is involved in the world cup and hopefully this will lead to bigger and better things for the future of the game in your great country.

By all means talk up your squad and coach but do not try and make a comparison to other nations as you simply do not have the stocks yet, your getting there but the simple fact is you are a long way behind the rest of the world, before getting respect from other nations or Australia you need to have some proven results or performances, not a one off loss to Italy's B side that you are all treating like a victory for you guys.

The results have shown how much you have struggled against poor sides lately and the display put on at the confederations cup was well not worth mentioning.

The thing on your side this year like it was for Australia last year is the element of surprise, other teams will not rate you and will not know much about you so hopefully you can use that to advantage, also you have a pretty weak group overall so I think you could get something off Paraguay.

Squad vs Tanzania:

1-Mark PASTON (GK), 3-Tony LOCHHEAD, 6-Ivan VICELICH, 8-Tim BROWN (Captain), 9-Shane SMELTZ (16-Chris JAMES 75), 11-Leo BERTOS, 14-Jeremy CHRISTIE (7-Simon ELLIOTT 55), 15-Jeremy BROCKIE (13-Andy BARRON 75), 17-David MULLIGAN, 19-Steven OLD, 20-Chris WOOD (10-Chris KILLEN 55).

Not too far off your A squad actually

squad vs Thailand:
Glen MOSS (GK), Aaron SCOTT, Ryan NELSEN (Captain), Andrew BOYENS, Tony LOCHHEAD, Simon ELLIOTT, Tim BROWN, Jeremy CHRISTIE, Jeremy BROCKIE (Kris BOUCKENOOGHE 83), Chris JAMES, Shane SMELTZ.

Again very much close to a full strength squad for you again.

still sticking with this strategy of debate i see. Smeltz is no better than Archie Thompson...and Thompson is no walk up for us....so why would Smeltz be? And again, we all know the reason why Griffiths hasn't been involved at nt level.




wow...i'm impressed by your arbitrary rankings...NOT!! so a guy that has scored a goal at championship level is ahead of Smeltz? yeah, whatever!



Kennedy can't play the lone role? since when?

this is getting ridiculous....

Edited by cool_cat2007: 11/5/2010 02:52:40 PM

gotta love kiwi enthusiasm, bless them.

in particular, comparing dave mulligan to simon colosimo because they played in the a-league and because of that, they are deemed "equal"

colosimo:best defender in the a-league
mulligan:released from welly and is looking to play semi pro football in NZ

:oops:

another fantastic comparison was the one where someonne said vescelish(sp) is better than moore because he has the experience of being a relegation battler in the eredivisie i mean FMD:lol:!!!! moore is nothing like he used to be but he always was, and still is a better player than some nobody who spent his glory days in the dutch second division

at the end of the day, NO kiwi player would even get into our XI besides Nelsen

and after him, no kiwi player other than Reid based on face value would even get into our 23 man squad

griffiths is a far more talented player than smeltz. he is indeed a cockhead but at least hes a better footballer. archie thompson is also a better footballer but what i will give to smeltz is that he does know how to score goals and is currently indeed the best striker in the HAL.

but to say he would walk into our squad when superior players like griffiths and djite could not is just laughable.

smeltz isnt your best striker because the others play at a higher level? then please explain to me why wood is sitting on the bench for smeltz whos even been highlighted by herbet as the key to your attack?

the fallon comment is hilariously, i mean, if you even bothered to watch him play for plymouth youd see hes a bloody league 1 player at best. he has no business playing in the championship and is always out of his depth.

killen is a nice physically imposing player and has found his level at the championship but is about as useful as a donkey with his feet and for someone to say he is better than mcdonald - when mcdonald was not only forcing killen to play reserves at celtic, but was also playing better than killen despite the fact he was playing with injury this season for boro just says it all

kennedy is not the greatest player, but he has played at a higher level than all of your striker combined and is in very good form at the moment. for sure we arent confident in seeing him play against serbia and whatnot, but if i had to pick between him and killen/smeltz/fallon....theres only 1 player who i would have playing

if kennedy was kiwi he'd be your starting striker, no questions asked. it would be kennedy up top with smeltz or killen playing off him or however your formation lines up

The All Whites might not be as good on paper as the Socceroos but are good enough to beat the Socceroos. It matters not as Aus wont get out of the group with Germany and Serbia then you wil say oh but they fought well looked better on papaer than NZ blah blah blah. The end result will be the same for both countrys neither will progress past the groups, despite your arrogance (I mean optimism)

Mavross:

I've never said Australia will get out of the group, I think you'll find most of the responses are due to kiwi fans stating that your players are better than Australia's without any justification.

I fully agree with you and think it is unlikely Australia will be able to progress past the group stage.

I do not agree that you are good enough to beat australia currently in a game that has any sort of significance however.

I hope for both our sides own good that the up coming friendly is treated as such and players are not going in too hard causing any of our sides to have players injured for the world cup.

kiwi mentality:

first its
"we have better players than you"

and then its
"ok fine you are right, we suck but you suck too"

what will it be next?

next it will be "ahahaha we were right the first time...that's why we won 12-0 at the MCG"

Being realistic though, as a New Zealander i don't think we're better than australia, and hope that australia do well. It's just the mentality of a minority of posters on these forums, australians who think we're going to concede rugby scores at the world cup, and New Zealanders who think we're better than some teams at the world cup! We have a long way to go in terms of our quality as a footballing country, but this is a start and to be honest, I'd be stoked with 0-4 to italy, and 0-2 to the other two. Scoring a goal would be faaaaarking wicked, but having attended the second leg against bahrain i have concluded that Smeltz couldn't score in a brothel. I am looking forward to the world cup with anticipation whether we get thrashed or not, as it will be the first time in aaaaaaaages that NZ has had decent preparation before competition game(s), and will be a chance for the A-League and the might of the NZFC to be on show to the world. Best of luck with serbia, they're going to be tricky, as we will find out during our warm up matches.