Justice League is underwhelming.

How/what/why the hell are they fucking up the DC Cinematic universe?

-PB

Because accurately portraying the DC universe on screen is nigh impossible because it is a lot darker and complex from the normie Marvel factory line. As soon as I read that Whedon was replacing Snyder after his daughter's death I knew what was coming. I haven't seen the movie but I already expect what they've done - cheesy lines, entry-level characters, vague backstories, a weak villian, a post-credits scene teasing Darkseid, a rushed plot because people don't want to think and ponder over a complex plot, etc

Please confirm but what I've gathered from the trailers - 1) Aquaman, because his character has been lampooned so much, has been cast a smart-ass Thor but underwater (they really should've just named the character Jason Momoa MEMBER? MEMBER KHAL DROGO?) 2) The Flash is a predictable nerdy, social outcast character that is as realistic and humorous as Sheldon off BBT, 3) Batman has been cucked and his brilliant backstory, psychology and dark aspect of his character has been forgotten in favour of being a Navy Seals dude dressed as a bat for some reason, 4) Wonder Woman is portrayed as utterly brilliant at all times because if she weren't it would be misogynistic and ignorant, 4) Bruce Wayne and Diana have some meaningless will they/won't they chemistry that makes no sense for the classic Bruce Wayne character 5) Cyborg is about as engaging as a calculator, 6) Hal Jordan or Jon Stewart don't show up, 7) Superman is teased the entire movie but is in it for 5 minutes for a glorified cameo, and his dialogue is 70's cringey and his old theme has replaced Hans Zimmer's wonderful score from MoS. 8) JK Simmons is in it for 2 minutes 9) Ciaran Hinds, who plays Steppenwolf, has been downgraded because of CGI into a voice acting role, which is a shame because he's a terrific actor with a great on-screen presence. 9) The re-shoots are utterly noticeable and laughable

Please confirm

Yeah basically lol.

Put it this way, you can see why they didn't release Rotten Tomato scores for a few days after release lol.

Wonder Woman did a far far better job of "Hero vs bad guy with legion of random underlings" 

-PB

Any good easter eggs/references?

Watching again; fuck his CGI moustache removal just looks stupid.

Uncanny valley rofl.

-PB

Calling it now, Tony Stark dies.

-PB

Lol'd at Black Widow's blonde eyebrows, really went all out with the hair dye!

And compared to MOS and to a lesser extent BVS he had a might lighter workload. Steppenwolf was the only one close to his level and even then he handled him with relative ease

Yup, makes the whole rest of the team pointless lol.

They're just there to fight the horde of underlings, Infinity War will suffer the same problem.

Too many heroes, bad guy too OP, can't do much about it.

-PB

Sounds about right. Apparently Cap is on the chopping block too

Nah I reckon Spider Man as well because he's young and loveable and Strange will have to make a choice between which one he saves via the Time stone before it is ultimately stolen away by Thanos.

Wouldn't even be surprised if there's some kinda afterlife moment where Tony says to Strange to choose the kid, he's the next generation etc etc.

-PB

DCEU shouldn't be any tougher to do that the Marvel one.  The problem is that they have rushed it.  It took Marvel 6 movies and 4 years to get to their big team-up picture, by that time we were well connected to Tony Stark/Ironman, Captain America, Hulk and Thor, we'd met Black Widow, Loki and Nick Fury.  The elements of that world were clearly established, the rules laid down, etc.  DC tried to dive straight in - Batman vs Superman as the 2nd film, with no intro to the new Batman or Wonderwoman.  Justice League as the 5th, with no prior big screen intro to The Flash, Aquaman or Cyborg.  Throw Suicide Squad into the mix as well - another throw-all-the-characters-together-now exercise.  Way too hurried.  

I would have liked to have seen The Batman before Batman vs Superman, so both characters were fully introduced and their world's fully realised.  Would have preferred to see Wonder Woman before B vs S too...  And there should have been Flash, Aquaman and maybe a second Batman standalone before Justice League.  As it is everything is underdone.

Just watched Gone Baby Gone for the first time tonight. I was not prepared for that bathroom scene, fucking hard to watch. 

I agree with you somewhat. Batman's backstory is already well-known and well-covered. Batman Begins did such a good job for setting up the character in Nolan's universe that repeating the story arc would have tiresome and irrelevant. (Honestly I loved Snyder's slight variations of Batman's origin in the BvS opening: unlike in the comics and TDK Trilogy Thomas Wayne is shown to bring about his own death due to his retaliation or at the very least he violently resists it - therefore implying a more brutal Bruce Wayne which BvS IMO successfully portrayed).

In regards to WW: Her origin movie gave a plausible reason for why she lived under wraps and not out in the open, given her interesting cynicism as to humanity's capabilities -  ironically implying that Ares' message in WW had an element of truth in it (Although it doesn't explain at all why she decided to give Hitler/Stalin/and the events of MoS a convenient miss.) Furthermore I did find her very one-dimensional and pretentious at times

Cyborg is a boring character. No origin movie can help that IMO. The intro he was given in JL was adequate and he was made to look very strong and useful (However the 'Booyah' bit at the end made me want to punch a dolphin). No dialogue or story was given to his interesting father-son dynamic, to his character's detriment. 

Flash was interesting but yes he did need an origin story to flesh him out, explain his powers and his character. Honestly I found him tedious and poorly written, the comic/animated series Flash was witty, funny and quirky but not in a forced sense like the movie. Ezra Miller did well with some poor lines but good heavens you could definitely see the negative Whedon impact on the character, it was like he was a nerdy dude straight out of Buffy. FFS he can literally change the universe by running back in time, give him solid dialogue, imagine if they gave Doctor Manhattan Tom Cruise-esque dialogue. 

Aquaman will hopefully be fleshed out in a meaningful way and not just used as a Momoa fap-fest for women to fawn over (eg how Thor's character and powers are made second-hand so Chris Hemsworth can be as Chris Hemsworth as possible). Out of all the hero characters he suffered the most from the obvious cuts and re-writes, nothing about him was explained, if you weren't a DC fan you would be very confused. 

As for Superman: His first scene after resurrection was very interesting, there was clear Snyder direction in it. I LOVED how he could see the Flash running near him and his dialogue holding up Batman remembering his former life. But then it all went south. The obvious CGI moustache was very distracting. The classic Superman theme song shit me to tears - Snyder had deliberately moved him away from that boy scout tripe in order to make him an interesting, flawed character but Whedon has brought it back to cringey simplicity that only children and soyboys want. The whole last battle with Steppenwolf was difficult to watch - it was simplistic, predictable and preachy - exactly what I envision DC to NOT be. 

As for Steppenwolf: I LOVE Ciaran Hinds as an actor and his voice was brilliant but unfortunately that was all of him in the movie. The CGI made him look very unbelievable but he was made to look very imposing until (conveniently) the end of the film. His great backstory with Darkseid/Apokolips was obviously scrapped making him very vanilla and vague. They missed a tremendous opportunity to flesh out an excellent villain with an excellent actor 

If you haven't already guessed I don't rate Joss Whedon. Clearly WB were against Snyder after the idiotic BvS backlash. Based on what I saw I will not be watching any more DC movies because I know what they're doing - they're Marvel-ing it up for maximum profit and ruining the DC mythos because they simply don't understand it. Just read one page of Geoff Johns' Doomsday Clock or Darkseid War and you'll know there's no way they'll implement that on screen - it's too financially risky and the parasitical critics that fawn over shit Marvel movies will eat them alive. 

How bout we stop giving movies to the likes of Snyder, JJ and Whedon lol.

-PB

Fixed

Have to say that I thought all the BvS backlash was fully warranted.  I'm a fan of good movie-making and more specifically of good writing rather than of superheroes/comic books.

As for Cyborg being a boring character - what he is in the comic books shouldn't effect what he is on the big screen.  Given 2 hours to himself he could have been written as a rounded character, then he could have been used as more than a convenient plot device in JL.  Ditto Flash - could have been a character rather than comic relief.

The cinematic version, yes. Clearly WB cut it down and damaged it. The Ultimate Edition is a masterpiece, my only gripe was Luthor's long hair and manic talking

Nope, Snyder with Man of Steel was terrible.

Fucking 3 year old on an iPad zooming in and out.

-PB

"Masterpiece" is going too far.  The Ultimate Edition corrects a lot of short-falls, but it's still only a good film when compared to the cinematic version.  If you look at it as a standalone film it's still very hit and miss.  Luther is still piss-poor.  Batman's reasons for hating Superman are still weak.  The 'Martha' moment is still terrible.  The monster is still tacked on, albeit with a little more set-up.  Wonder Woman still under-done.

Compare it to Nolan's trilogy it's not even close to good.

Thiiissss

 

Man of Steel was fantastic. It provided an interesting and unique take on the origin story of Superman and Shannon as Zod was brilliant. I absolutely loved the ending, it took a lot of balls and I fondly remember the gasp in the cinema when it happened, give me endings like that over any other formulaic shit. 

Please provide a greater critique so I deconstruct it while I polish my fedora 

"Masterpiece" is being harsh IMO. It improved on the cinematic version immensely and made the plot more fluent and understandable. As a standalone film it is the best superhero flick apart from TDK.

Luthor (you can't even spell it right you wretched pommy) was very strange and I'll admit his dialogue was just plain hard to hear. However, once I understood that the Lex portrayed by Eisenberg was in fact Lex Luthor JUNIOR (ie the classic Luthor that is well-known in the comics/animated series is presumably dead) then his character made more sense to me. Imagine the ego-maniacal, classic Luthor character - now imagine what his young, entitled, abused son would be like. I really enjoyed that slight little variation, it gave the character more room to breathe and escape its previous reputation, while still maintaining the obvious psychopathy. 

Batman's reason's for 'hating' Superman were not complex. 1) He was upset at Superman for inadvertently killing his employees and presumably friends, as well as hundreds of thousands of civilians in MoS. This was clearly established in the opening sequence. 2) He feared Superman's power and thus did not trust him. Understandable given the dream sequences he was having showing Superman to be a possible major threat. Also, the Flash appearing to him after said dream sequence clearly warning him of Superman added to his desire to remove him for the greater good 3) The Batman portrayed was old, grizzled and cynical. He had clearly lost a former Robin to the Joker and Wayne Manor was in ruins for unknown reasons. Clearly things had not worked out. Add on top of this, the arrival of a super-powered alien who could do anything and make your entire career and crusade irrelevant in a matter of moments would certainly irk even the most Stoic of vigilantes. 4) The Batman portrayed was shown to be more brutal, less measured, he had clearly lost a bit of himself and the movie attempted to show him returning to his better nature. 

The 'Martha' moment is not terrible. Before Superman says he has a mother named 'Martha', Batman is convinced he's just an alien, and a dangerous one at that. Finding out that he has a mother makes Batman realize that he does have an element of humanity - in fact more so than him, because Bruce doesn't have a mother which is a subconscious reason for his violence. The coincidence that both share the same mother's name is also important. Furthermore, by killing Superman there and then (which would then lead to Martha Kent's death) Batman realizes that he's no better than Joe Chill (the guy who killed his parents). It indicates to him just how far he's strayed from the path he set on 20+ years previously - that is to avenge his parents death and prevent it happening to anyone else. By killing Superman he will become what he hates and fears most - thus denigrating the whole purpose of the Batman (which is to use your fear as a strength and tool for good, to rise above it and not let it control you). In one of the rare good lines in JL Bruce Wayne confirms this. To Alfred he says that Superman was more human than he was - he had a family, a job, and sincerely desired to be normal and good, while Bruce struggles to maintain normalcy which is why he dresses up as a flying rodent to soothe his own anger and also plays the fake role of the billionaire playboy. 

Doomsday isn't tacked on. Regardless the comic book version of the character didn't really have a personality and the use of Zod's body and the genesis chamber made perfect sense in how it was birthed, It was also shown to be more powerful than Steppenwolf - after all, like in the comics, it successfully kills the 'immortal' Superman. 

WW was a glorified, universe building cameo. If she was anything else the movie would've gone on for 5 hours. They used her well enough and explained her situation with her dialogue at the end and with her follow-up origin film. 

Nolan's trilogy is undoubtedly brilliant and always will be. However I enjoyed this version of Arkham-esque Batman better than Bale's 5"6 throat cancer version. 

Doomsday looked like shit.

I was referring to the Director, not the writer. The writing was fine.

The directing and editing was poor.

-PB

I understand all the concepts - however the execution of said concepts is piss poor.

The one point I have little problem with within the DCEU has been the casting - which (Luthor aside) has been excellent.  Love Affleck as Batman - I was watching The Town when they announced he was getting the job and the timing was perfect.  Cavill is an excellent Superman.  Shannon is intense as anything, always good to see Costner die, all the new guys are good - I didn't even have a problem with Leto as the Joker (from a casting point of view, again the use of the character within Suicide Squad was terrible, but the character/actor were fine).

I'll always hold back on taking a pop at Snyder or Whedon, the major problems are clearly a studio issue.  The biggest clue is the whole 'The Batman' deal.  I can't see how a comic book nut like Affleck, with the opportunity to write, direct and star in a film, would walk away unless he was getting massive studio interference over what he was and wasn't allowed to do.

It's clear that WB certainly don't want Affleck with the major creative control for the Batman. They've already replaced him with Matt Reeves (not a bad thing but indicative) and have basically scrapped his original script (which was reportedly going to be a detective/Arkham-esque storyline heavily involving Deathstroke and inspired by the Hush story-arc). There are substantive, constant rumours that Reeves wants to replace Affleck entirely, and presumably take the character in a more well-known, marketable direction (a la the horrible Burton/Schumacher non-character that nearly doomed the character itself). Rumour has it that Jon Hamm is being lined up to replace and the Batman movie may not even take place in the wider DC movie universe, such is WB's vitriol against Affleck and Snyder. Both Nightwing and Batgirl are confirmed to be introduced soon, so they may take the spotlight away from the best character in DC (and all of) comics. 

My worry with WB and the DCEU is that they'll base it around a boring boy scout Superman and a one-dimensional Wonder Woman. Hopefully the in-production Flashpoint film will mirror the comic/animated film and go full dark and DC, but I suspect that it will be conveniently used as a time-travelling re-write to put the whole DCEU on an 'acceptable' course. 

Yeah boi

-PB

Went to the midnight screening of Last Jedi, thought it’s pretty rubbish, worst one Disney have done yet.

Saw it too. I'm not sure where I sit with it at all.