^So far the signs for Oar do look good and I hope he does well at Utretch. If he perform what those signs suggest and get game time I'll be happy for him in the AC squad. However if he doesn't I think it'll be more beneficial for him, the national team and other fringe players if the new coach allows him to stay at his club and fight for a first team spot. As for the strength of a league and whether a player has dominated or not, your entitles to your opinion. I can't expect everyone to agree with everything I say.

I do agree with nearly everything you say, if you look at my previous post you will see that I said at Kilkenny is above the likes of Oar and Holland.
In terms of Troisi I agree with you he has been great in the past but has achieved nothing of note at international level and has not performed in the last season.
Burns has beign playing very well although in the Greek second devision which I believe is below the standard of the A League. However if he can come back into AEK Athens and perform as he is for Kerkyra if will be a different story.
Oar, I believe while not having yet achieved what Troisi or Burns have I believe he has performed better for his age, dominating in the A League at 18 and achieving 2 international caps (i know you put the indonesia game down to potential rather than substance but you have to say it is impressive to out perform many far more acomplished and experienced players on the squad) and has signed with Utrecht (a mid table team in a league of higher standard than those of Greece and Turkey) where he has also beign awarded the number 10 shirt which to me suggests that he is not there to make up the numbers.
I believe unlike many others Oar has shown enough substance to back up all the hype.
I hope I am right.

Id have Holman for Cahill. Use Cahill as a sub later in the game.

Totally agree with your lineup there although I believe that Leckie will be banging goals in regularly at an EPL club come 2014 and I'd have him ahead of Rukavystsya. EDIT: I'd replace Vidosic wih Holman, as Holman's going to be a bigger star then Cahill in 2014.

Edited by Road_to_Victory: 26/6/2010 07:09:52 PM

Not a bad squad, but under this scenario poor Milligan could go three world Cups and not get any game time. You'd have to start him out of sympathy in the first match.

---

2014 FIFA World Cup (Age as of respective tournament)

---

Adam FEDERICI, 29
Brad JONES, 32
Mitchell LANGERAK, 25

David CARNEY, 30
Jason DAVIDSON, 22
Luke WILKSHIRE, 32
Mark MILLIGAN, 28
Rhys WILLIAMS, 25
Matthew SPIRANOVIC, 25
Shane LOWRY, 24
Ben KANTAROVSKI, 22

Carl VALERI, 29
Mile JEDINAK, 29
Dario VIDOSIC, 27
Nathan BURNS, 26
Thomas OAR, 22
Brett HOLMAN, 30
Tim CAHILL, 34
James HOLLAND, 25

Scott McDONALD, 30
Nikita RUKAVYTSYA, 27
Josh KENNEDY, 31
Mathew LECKIE, 23

------------------------Federici---------------------

Wilkshire-----Williams---------Spiranovic------Carney

------------------------Valeri---------------------

Vidosic-----------------------------------------Oar

------------------------Cahill----------------------

---------------Rukavytsya---McDonald----------------




Edited by Proud2BeCanberran: 25/6/2010 08:32:28 PM

Yeah I think the emergence of Valeri and even Holman, and to a lesser extent Carney, are tangible positives we can take from the World Cup.

I do indeed, and recall you even picking Valeri as a future captain, which you did long ago. Burns and Valeri are both good players who have big futures for the national team. On this fact, we definitely agree.

My Lineup


-------------------Federici-------------------------

Jason Davidson----Spiranovic---Lowry------Rhys Williams

Nathan Burns---------Valeri------------------Oar----

------Holman---------Cahill----------Leckie---------

--------------------McDonald--------------------------

Yeah, we all have our vices, as I'm sure you recall I have been on the Valeri bandwagon for a fair while as well.

:d

Joffa, you bang on more about Burns than I do about Valeri, not that there's anything wrong with that:)

OK, me too, I agree with you guys, so come and give me a big Maradonna hug;)

Any team, squad, lineup without Nathan Burns is a fail

For me selection should be based on merit and not potential. At this point I don't think either Tommy Oar or James Holland has done enough to earn selection.

While Tommy Oar was a first teamer at bribane the other players mentioned have played at a higher or equivalent level. Its great that he's signed a for a mid level club in the form of Utretch, but that just shows potential and nothing else. Likewise the fact he did well against Indonesia shows only potential and nothing else. At this point he's done nothing, he hasn't even kicked a ball in the eredivisie. Personally I hope he breaks into the first team immediately but past history suggest otherwise. He has previously stated that he has struggled during training under Verbeek since he was unfamiliar with his methods. Against European and South American opposition during the U20WC he also under performed and was easily nullified. Of the players mentioned I think he is the furthest behind since I believe he is least likely to get game time next season. Training with the socceroos should have improved his ability to cope in Europe, however unless he actually plays for Utretch I don't think he deserves to be at the AC.

Compare this to James Troisi. While at an international level he hasn't done anything of note, at a European club level he is an established player. For Gençlerbirliği he was a first teamer who regularly started and finished games. He was also considered one of their best players and on occassion chipped in on goals against oppoistion I consider much better than the Indonesian national team. His form was enough to at one point link him to Galatasaray. While he hasn't had the same impact at Kayserispor he has still made 24 appearances.The fact he started his club's last couple of games bodes well for him next season. When there are two players in leagues and clubs of similar quality, there's no way they're on equal ground if one is already an established player for the senior team and the other is likely to play in the youth team next season.

While Nathan Burns is slightly behind James Troisi, he's done well in Europe and deserves to be well ahead of Oar. While kerkyra isn't the most well known club for argument sake let say it is similar to your typical A-league club. There Burns has played 31 games and scored 8 goals. He is consistantly named as one of their best players after a match. The club has publically posted on their website that one of the reasons for their good form was him. He has helped his club to gain promotion to the first division. The AEK technical director has publicly stated that he rates Burns very highly and considers him an extremly technically gifted player. Like Oar he was an established player in the A-league. Unlike Oar he was had time in Europe to adapt to their system and proven he is capable of playing there. Next season he is virtually guarenteed first team football at the Super League Greece. Having played more games, scored more goals and gotten more European experience than Oar, I really can't say they are on par.

As for James Holland, he is the captain of the youth team. He regularly trains with the senior squad. He recently took part in a friendly match of AZ against Celtic. The youth team coach as stated on the AZ fan page that he has nominated several players including Holland for a first team spot. If he can get game time next season he'd be on par with Neil Kilkenny. If he can establish himself in the starting eleven then he'd be above Kilkenny. If he does play for AZ then he'll certainly deserve to be in the AC squad. However at this point, he isn't a starting player, he hasn't played a game for AZ in the Eredivisie, he didn't even do well at the U20WC, god knows whether he'll make it into the AZ senior squad or not. You really think he deserves to be at the AC ahead of others?

Right now Kilkenny is an established player for Leeds, who will compete in the Championship next season. He has played against big opponents with distinction. In the FA cup he dominated the midfield against the likes of Manchester United, who I rate way above any other Eredivisie Yong team. Truth be told no matter what angle I look at it I can't see how a youth player at AZ can be considered even on par at this point.

Even Wesolowski is further ahead of Holland. Ignoring the fact he was playing in the championship as a teenager, last season he was voted by fans as youth player of the year and player of the year for Hamilton Academic. Unlike Holland who has only trained with the first team and played in friendlies, this bloke has actually done something. Even though Peterborough United ain't that impressive its still a better team than Yong AZ. As a newly relegated team they're a contender for promotion. Gary Johnson is also a decent manager with a great record for promotion. Like with the case of Kilkenny if Holland can get game time in the senior Az side then fine. At this point however there's no way they can be considered equals.

At this point I think there's a lot of unhealthy hype being placed on Oar, which was previously placed on others. Before Oar, James Troisi was the next Harry Kewell and Nathan Burns was the next Harry Kewell. However when they don't immediately break into the first team or score 20 goals a season then they are immediately deemed failures. The common Australian opinion of young players to me seem a bit crazy and extremely bi-polar. Take Holland for example, when he first appeared in the A-league he was considered a star. When he moved to Az people said he was the next Okon. He didn't immedialtey break into the first team and people say he's going to end up at league 1. He didn't do well in the U20WC and some said he's gone backwards and would end up a bum sharing a cardboard box with Rooney. Pim picks him for the extended squad and says he's done well at Yong AZ and suddenly he's their favourite player again. Personally I think people need to get some perspective and let them quietly develope. Like I said before, I think both Oar and Holland are both great future prospects. Personally I hope they do well. If next season they can get game time at their clubs then fair enough they deserve to be at the AC. However if they don't, I think it'll be a shame to pick them ahead of others who are already making headway in Europe.

The other issue we had was the attitude to the tournament and our opponents. We went in saying we were going to win it and go undefeated, this time we will know it's not so easy.

Are you serious? Oar has being playing first team football in the A league and has being signed on a senior professional contract at a big Dutch club, in his first Socceroos game was the best man on the park plus he has being training with the world cup squad and gaining valuable experience. Holland was great in the A League and has started breaking into AZ Alkmaar's first team. Out of the ones you mentioned should be before them Kilkenny should be, Troisi has being doing alright in turkey so maybe, Burns has being good in a 2nd Devision Greek side and Weslowski has being just signed with a relegated Championship side (now league 1). so apart from Kilkenny I realy dont see how the others are so far ahead of Holland or Oar, they are on par but by no means ahead.

Agreed also. That would be a crack Socceroos squad, and would challenge S.Korea for supremecy. Carney & MacDonald are not unreasonable selections either.

Looking back to 2007, one of the major issues were that players had had basically 4 weeks holidays before the tournament. It was evident against Oman & Iraq, we never really shook off the lethargy that summer holidays demand.

For the upcoming Asian Cup, the major risk point are injuries. Williams was deadset unlucky not to make the WC squad, he'll be fit for January.

The asian cup squad should be our best available squad. No matter the age. We have a serious chance of winning this. Lets not experiment, or blood players in. Pick the best squad and win the thing.

Yep - happy with that

Edited by patjennings: 25/6/2010 12:39:44 AM

While I agree that the Asian Cup squad should be a mix of young and old, I disagree with handing out spots to players unless they are getting game time. The likes of Holland and Oar while no doubt talented at this point does not deserve to be there. Learning your trade within the Dutch youth system is a great, but nothing beats first team football. I think it'll be shame to pick them over the likes of Kilkenny, Wesolowski, Troisi and Burns who have already started making headway in their respective teams.

Agree with that squad for the Asian Cup except for Bresciano, I'd have him instead of Holland.

Agreed on bringing the youngsters to the Asian Cup; I just think that we should play with the same team we have now minus Chipperfield, Grella and Moore replaced by Carney, Valeria & Beachump. By all means bring the youngsters on as subs etc etc but our main focus should be to WIN the Asian Cup, as we need to show that we are the best in Asia.

You are both right. The Asian Cup is the pinnacle of our confederation and we should go there to win it. However, that does not mean we can't have a good blend in January.
How about

Langerak
Federici
Schwarzer

Lowry
Davidson
Spiranovic
Milligan
Neill
Beauchamp
Williams
Wilkshire

Jedinak
Holland
Valeri
Oar
Vidosic
Holman
Cahill
Emerton

Leckie
Rukavysta
Kennedy
Kewell

Average age of 26.

11 that are 25 or younger
12 that are 26 or older

Good article above Joffa.

I disagree, and the Asian Cup squad should have a good number of younger players. We need to harden them up and get them ready for qualifying for the next World Cup through Asia, and there isn't a better opportunity to do this than at the upcoming Asian Cup.

The likes of Valeri, Beauchamp, Holman, Ruka, Federici and Vidosic all need to appear in the squad again, but the following should be added too: Oar, Holland, Lowry, Rhys Williams, Spiranovic and Jason Davidson. That's 12 young players who are good enough or near good enough. Add another 11 more experienced players and the balance will be about right.

Assuming all of the current stars retire, maybe something like this:

------------------------Adam Federici

Rhys Williams--Mile Jedinak--Matthew Spiranovic--David Carney

------------------------Luke Wilkshire

------Nathan Burns------Dario Vidosic------James Troisi

-----------------Brett Holman----Scott McDonald

James Wesolowski.

That fella will be in the starting XI at 2014, no doubt at all.

Also I think Djite, Burns and Troisi will be thereabouts.

AND

Schwarzer will be 41 at the next world cup.

Edited by jhayward: 24/6/2010 06:36:51 PM

yeh i think you'll be surprised at exactly how much younger our squad could be for the next world cup, i'm seeing a lot of 22-23 year olds in the team. it depends how much they devolope. i know it's impossible to predict a squad for 4 years time but............well it's fun :)
anyway here i go


Goalkeepers                  
Schwarzer 37            
Federici 30                  
Bouzanis 24            

Defenders            
Lowry 25               
Davidson 22
Herd 25
Williams 25
Wilkshire 32
Neil 34
Spiranovic 25
Carney 30

Midfield
Culina 33
Cahill 34
Holman 30
Oar 23
Inman 23 (if he plays for aus)
Mooy 25
Kantarovski 22
Valeri 29

Forwards
Vidosic 27
Mcdonald 29
Fletcher/markelis 22
Djite 25


and i reckon we'd look something like

-----------------schwarz----------------
Wilkshire---Williams-Spiranovic-Davidson
----------------Valeri------------------
Inman--------------------------------Oar
----------------Cahill------------------
----------Mcdonald----Vidosic-----------

A loooooooooooooooooooooot can happen in 4 years. Safe to say 4 years ago we wouldn't have thought that Valeri, Holman, Wilkshire or Kennedy would be some of our best players this time around.

2014 is a long way away, even if it is 'only' 4 years. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.