In the midfield triangle, there are two holders or defensive midfielders (basic 1-4-3-3 shape). Stagger these players so that they do not play flat. This is a strategy that protects against counter attack when the ball is lost and provides another passing option. The triangle constantly changes its shape and dimensions.

Third man running is just that. A third player running into space off the ball creating a passing option.

The Pro's should stay in the middle that way they are more accessible and the Con's should be on the wings as they are normally pretty fast. Sorry couldn't help myself

I have no doubt you will. :lol:

Nothing like impressing the impressionable with terms, phrases and acronyms.

Interesting point.

I've usually kept the two screeners/holders/controlling midfielders/defensive midfielders, flat unless the ball moves out to the flanks where the triangle is rotated.

By staggering them what sort of distances from goal have you staggered the holders instead of them playing them flat? For example would one holder be 5 metres close to goal, 4 metres closer to goal, etc?

There are quite a few different ways to play the system. Situations will demand different tactics from the coach. If we play with the midfield triangle facing forward and one defensive midfielder makes an attacking run then the other obviously "holds". Advanced tactics should not be applied until older age groups or elite players.

Even in our state league at senior level hardly any coaches play 4-3-3.

It seems that coaches lack the confidence to play it, even though trained to play it in FFA courses.

I like the 433 and use it all the time.
But I am developing children into players,, personally I do not see a problem with senior coaches using what ever system they believe is best for the team they have, the skills of their players and the opposition they play.
The only exception to this is development teams ie the U17 andU19 national teams.

Sadly so few of our senior coaches in the state league play 4-3-3 because they lack the confidence. Yet other full time, paid coaches say the FFA courses are brilliant - usually stakeholders.

If they are brilliant, why do the coaches lack the confidence to play it when they leave the course?

Any of the guys who left the KNVB course would have been happy to use it immediately.

What I've done at the junior U12 level is just play a traditional 4-3-3 like I played as a kid in the 70's. The instructions are kept simple the wide players are to start or wait for the ball to come to them from the touch lines at the halfway line, they don't track back.

At this age its fun as the full backs will not attack to leave their opponent alone so we end up stretching the opposition and as we play forward our full backs get to push up into midfield and attack creating extra options and exerting pressure on the opposition.

Other instructions are to take short corners as much as possible, full backs to be available at the side of the penalty box for short kick ins. The opposition invariably will man up at the sides and our midfielders pick up passes down the middle.

It a fun style to play and watch we win some and lose some but in 14 rounds we've been outplayed once in terms of possesion. Though the down side is we are suceptable to the long ball down the middle to the big fast kid.

Setting out a 4-3-3 with the flat midfield is fairly easy.

It is setting out the midfield triangles which makes it difficult.

Simple instructions are good, Arthur.

I Like to take a Zen approach when the kids are playing a match coaches comments are kept to minimum, at training guided discovery is the key for me in developing players that can think. While many use 4v4 games to develop game sense at training I prefer Horst Wein's 3v3 games to develop the players understanding of being in triangles or as I prefer being available for the player with the ball in a side on standing position and taking the ball away with lateral touch.

I like the kids playing the 4-3-3 because there is nothing better than playing on the wings and ripping a full back apart.

Horst wein is a must read for all junior coaches, not just for the exercises but the understanding of how players learn.

I enjoy Horst Wein's stuff, especially the book and DVD on Game Intelligence. I take bits and pieces from several sources and some of my own stuff and present my own style.

What is dispiriting is how many coaches at U12 intermediate level are raveing lunatics and at a guess they all seem to have played or come from the Wimbledon school of football.

Oh by the way I have no problem changing to 4-4-2 especially against stronger opposition. And I have to admit if the kids had the tactical nouse, which they don't, I'd be playing a half of 5-3-2 then the second half 4-2-4 just to annoy the opposition.

Edited by Arthur: 28/7/2011 03:57:56 PM

I've just been watching our NTC coach play a 4-2-3-1/ 4-3-3, using two holders/screeners. They didn't really 'stagger' at all. They stayed in a perfect line across the pitch, almost throughout the whole game.

The NTC is one of the best teams in this state, including state league senior teams, in holding a very good and compact shape.

What does he say about kids with HDD or very low attention spans?
BY the way and for the record I do not believe in HDD I think it is simply a lack of consistent discipline.

It's the digital world we live in, krones.

Most kids these days have an ipod, iphone and a HDD.

Then you will have trouble dealing with it and amplify the problem if discipline is used as the principle aid. It's ADD or ADHD ect., btw. Not Hard Disk Drive.

It's also one of the common disorders in the high functioning autism spectrum and foetal alcohol syndrome.

As decentric would likely advise, as a school teacher and being trained to deal with the problem, the kids have an actual physical inability to concentrate and with it, a very short attention span.

Activities (drills) have to be constantly renewed, varied and attention gaining (fun and enjoyable) as rote activities will cause the interest to wane very quickly and there's little you or they can do anything about avoiding it.



Edited by skeptic: 29/7/2011 01:23:09 PM

You are right it is ADD
and IMO it is bullshit.

Then, sir, you are forever headed for problems when dealing with kids with the disorder which will cause further problems for both them and yourself and you should not be allowed to have them included in your charge of duty of care.

One wonders what their parents would think and how long they'd remain in your care if your opinion was known to them.

I would also suggest if you have the best interest of all kids in mind, including the difficult ones, you would attempt to gain a reasonable understanding of the problem and how best to deal with it. Learning as a coach is not limited to how many new drills you can show off.

'IMO it is bullshit' is a cop out, a bloody ignorant one and damn lazy.

It is no cop out nor ignorant
the whole ADD is bullshit an excuse to comfort parents who have know idea on parenting and for drug companies, doctors and others to make a lot of money.
Spare the rod spoils the child.
All that is needed is consistent discipline and firm love.



Edited by krones3: 29/7/2011 08:08:07 PM

read this

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

What scary thought that nonces like this are managing to get within a bull's roar of kids. I give up.

good
you lost in the first place

ADD, ADHD is a label given to a number of students who display a short concentration span. I have taught a number of kids diagnosed with this condition.

It is a complex subject. There is too much depth in the subject for the likes of a football forum. Even as teachers we don't know heaps about it, but we apply certain strategies to teach the students with the condition. It is hard to know whether it is a more common phenomenon, or that there are more experts diagnosing the condition than 35 years ago.

Additives in foods are sometimes the cause. I've taught kids whose diet has been changed and their behaviour/concentration has improved dramatically.

Another common phenomenon in coaching any sport, is the Generation Y and younger generation. Thye have been brought up in an over stimulated world of computers, etc. They are easily bored. In the past sports coaches were able to coach and had a level of respect from just being who they were. They had an exalted status.

Even as teachers the newer generation of infants are not stimulated by stories/illustrations that previous generations were in the past. Yet nearly all of them love the daily fitness programmes I ran which involve games to develop strength, co-ordination, ball skills and fitness. Many female teachers don't have a daily fitness programme. Kids I taught did about half an hour of games per day. Kids with ADD or hyperactive boys often excelled.

Gen Y and younger have been much harder to motivate and keep on track according to sports coaches at all levels. I sometimes despair at how addicted young kids are to computers.

I am concerned about the paucity of kids playing with friends, particularly in more affluent communities/suburbs. Apart from going to and from school, I see almost no kids at any other time, other than a couple of delinquents up to no good, playing with other kids outside. The only time many kids seem to play cricket, aerial ping pong, football , etc, is when a parent drives them to a park and plays cricket or football with their kids.

One never sees groups of kids playing at their local school or play areas participating in street football or cricket. It seems they are all at home using X boxes, playstations, computer games , facebook and TV. Or being driven to organised dancing, scouts, soccer, netball, etc.

I also have a holiday home in a remoter part of Tassie. Kids there are much more active. I like the surf culture, because those kids are really active, and physically fit.
Kids there also fish a lot in boats, but lack the opportunities to play organised football. FFE is planning trips to these areas as state FFA don't go.

KNVB has set up a football programme to counteract the lack of football being played on the streets in Europe. At FFE we encourage kids to practise at home and to organise SSGs at school in the playground such as 4v4, but not the 15 v15 or 20 v 20 games which occur all too frequently.


Edited by Decentric: 31/7/2011 11:55:00 PM

The 'Wimbledon school' adherents seem to be prevalent all over Australia.

Some coaches do courses where the instructors plead with coaches to pay out from the back and play possession football, but it frequently falls on deaf ears. They go straight back to their club team and play the 'Wimbledon way' at any level - senior, youth or junior.


This issue is partly whilst Juve Juve has followed me from WP to this site!!!!


A lot of locals think that is all the state league clubs are capable of playing. A Korean under 12 team visited and showed adults even young kids can play technical football. Nearly every coach I talk to is still obsessed by size of players in this state.

Whether a manager or coach decides to play 'Wimbledon style' football at a senior level is irrelevant regardless of how frustrating it maybe. That is the senior coaches choice, end of story! Certainly we as supporters aren't under any pressure for results as he or she is. If it means winning the title or avoiding relegation a coach will play what they deem to be the most effective formation or method. In saying that, I do believe the board have some say.

As for junior football, I agree results shouldn't be important, although I do remember feeling as though the world was ending if we lost. I do think however, the Wimbledon style of football is better than no style. As I remember, parents gave up their time to coach school kids on the weekends, most of them never having played before.

Size of a player is a funny one. There is a significant correlation between professional footballers and birthdates. For example, if the cut off for an age group is July 1 ... kids born just after this date are more likely to be successful than kids born say in June. This is because those kids excel at the base level and are selected for rep teams, ergo have more opportunities for better coaching and competitive playing time.

Another interesting finding from a number studies. All things being equal, a kid who starts playing a sport at 5 will always be better than the same aged kid who starts at 6.

no its not bullshit.......


however the A.D.D. tag is used and diagnosed way to much to children who dont have ADD and are not disciplined.....but ADD does exist......

these children have parent who suffer from...SCPS.....[size=9]s[/size]oft [size=9]c[/size]ock [size=9]p[/size]arent [size=9]s[/size]yndrome

Edited by batfink: 1/8/2011 12:06:24 PM

Having a mate with ADD I can tell you it is real, he is now in his early 60s, has a Masters in Biology and had quite a long career in the Public Service, it all got to much to manage though as he has a constant fight on his hand to stayed focused on things - and if he forgets to take his medication it is basically impossible to have a conversation with him. So yes children were getting mis diagnosed (especially in the USA) with ADD and ADHD but these medical conditions do exist and can be managed with a combination of diet and medication.

A diamond is like two triangles together.

I have heard Horst Wein's book is good. One former genuine TWG poster called Slowcoach, who holds a UEFA B Licence and a FA A Licence, claims the book has diagrams which are too simplistic. I haven't seen Wein's book.