Hey Benjamin, why do you even reply to and acknowledge that complete malaka!! He's just sad loser of the highest order.

Edited by smfc and proud: 18/9/2011 01:03:44 PM

I respond to Kapow because I think he is making a genuine attempt to find a better way to run things in Victoria. I think he's right in thinking there's a better way, but don't think his methodology is sound.

Now, better not continue with this 'conversation' too long, people will start getting worried that I'm talking to myself. ;)

Hey capow, good luck.

You are up against benjamin, the master of disguise, and at least 3 of his multis, Arthur, southmelb and sceptic.

He might be using more of his multis in this thread, because you are a formidable opponent and a real threat to his agenda, but I wouldn't know his latest multis because I don't come here as often anymore, thanks to this bastard.

One thing his multis have in common: They ALL support South Melbourne, but they don't speak greek, which "proves" South Melbourne is a "broad-based" club. Hilarious, isn't it?

Good luck with benjamin's puppett show capow. You need it mate. It will seem like you are arguing with many and you are being attacked by many, when in fact you are only arguing with one and you are only being attacked by one: the single puppet master, who never fucken sleeps and is always here ready to respond instantly to your posts.

Good luck with the bastard who never sleeps capow.

For the record TOB knows you are a smfc member and that you are Anglo Ben

kolokotronis advised me at the ground TOB was pm ing him to get the lowdown of me and you

we concluded he absolutely hates the fact we have fans from various origins such as yourself and smfc and krisskrash etc due the reason that he cut his ties at Olympic and said some big parting words

I believe he is at odds with himself over what he did and said for his sanity and guilt needs to feel comfortable.about what he did was right

I reckon the guy is in his late forties and make.more enemies than friends

Hey capow, good luck.

You are up against benjamin, the master of disguise, and at least 3 of his multis, Arthur, southmelb and sceptic.

He might be using more of his multis in this thread, because you are a formidable opponent and a real threat to his agenda, but I wouldn't know his latest multis because I don't come here as often anymore, thanks to this bastard.

One thing his multis have in common: They ALL support South Melbourne, but they don't speak greek, which "proves" South Melbourne is a "broad-based" club. Hilarious, isn't it?

Good luck with benjamin's puppett show capow. You need it mate. It will seem like you are arguing with many and you are being attacked by many, when in fact you are only arguing with one and you are only being attacked by one: the single puppet master, who never fucken sleeps and is always here ready to respond instantly to your posts.

Good luck with the bastard who never sleeps capow.

[size=7]We seek him here,we seek him there,
Those TOBs seek him everywhere!
Is he in heaven? Is he in hell?
Where is that damn elusive Benjamin Pimpernel!
He gives the TOBs nothing but frustration
Popping in and out each week!
Spoiling every lovely execution
LA! What cheek! [/size]


The Benjamin Pimpernell

Kai pollis oreos. (and translated from the common greek "and his very nice!" or "and what a guy")

Edited by Arthur: 17/9/2011 12:35:33 AM

@Kapow

Your theories genuinely confuse me. You claim that supporter numbers aren't of major concern, but obsess over ways to improve supporter numbers/connection between clubs and supporters.

I respond to Kapow because I think he is making a genuine attempt to find a better way to run things in Victoria. I think he's right in thinking there's a better way, but don't think his methodology is sound.

Now, better not continue with this 'conversation' too long, people will start getting worried that I'm talking to myself. ;)

Re malaka what are you doing? You taking chances? You use the same password for all your multis don't you? Don't give them a reason to investigate you. Lay low. Kane to koroido re malaka. 8-[

Im a South Melbourne fan and not Greek, just curious why do you get upset when you hear of or see people on forums who support these teams that arent of that nationality? are all Greeks like this or are they just like this in Australia? im amazed at the amount of Greeks that have come up to me and whinged to me about my support of South....when they were the ones that actually got me to like the club in the first place! some of you are very strange....its actually sad that the likes of myself and Benjamin show more loyalty to our clubs than what people like you ever will...more and more greeks of your ilk have been popping up since 2005....it fascinates me really.

It doesn't matter, because what I say today is no different to what I said 3 years ago... Membership to the A-League should be based on viability first, location second. It is our responsibility as a club to demonstrate that we are viable.

For the record TOB knows you are a smfc member and that you are Anglo Ben

kolokotronis advised me at the ground TOB was pm ing him to get the lowdown of me and you

we concluded he absolutely hates the fact we have fans from various origins such as yourself and smfc and krisskrash etc due the reason that he cut his ties at Olympic and said some big parting words

I believe he is at odds with himself over what he did and said for his sanity and guilt needs to feel comfortable.about what he did was right

I reckon the guy is in his late forties and make.more enemies than friends

Arthur you narcissist.....oh wait it's different when you're attempting to mock? The ironing is delicious.

TOB is actually intelligent, has a decent football brain and is able to form a logical argument, he just gets frustrated by insincere posters.

Oh come champ your the one and only narcissist around here.

Own Goal Kapow!

Arthur 4 Kapow! 0

If you can spare a few minutes would you like to critique my plan for VPL resurgence?


Do you really think I'm Benjamin?



Edited by Arthur: 20/9/2011 09:06:14 PM

You’ve said that wrongly about 4 times now. I am concerned by the lack of interest in the state league, but far more concerned about the lack of mechanisms, because they help create interest/crowds. That's not a very hard sentence to understand, maybe UK English is different to Australian English?

I'm confused because you "mechanisms" are clearly about generating interest in the game at the local level... But you don't see any problem with the current levels... So if the existing mechanisms are creating a reasonable and sustainable level of interest... What's the problem?


It’s insincere to act as if it’s almost a sympathy reply. The methodology may have been interesting to go into, with an open mind of course, but you were stuck up on unrelated things such as, price being too expensive, continually attributing being allocated a zone to meaning a new zonal team, pretending to be confused that focusing on the mechanisms to improve interest means having no interest in the crowds etc. So it's rich to make an off the cuff comment that the methodology was poor when very little of your posts actually discussed it.

Again, you bring up my sincerity. It would have been very easy for me to agree with the other poster, or to say that I don't know why... But I opted to give you credit as someone who has different, but equally valid opinions. Forgive me for being reasonable.

You talk of me "pretending to be confused" - coming from someone who mocks the sincerity of others, this is a highly disrespectful comment. If I could understand the point you were trying to make - I would discuss it. Problem is, in all the responses you've made to my continual attributions, you don't appear to have tried to actually explain how you'd do things - which would surely be a better way to clarify things for me.




He gets upset because some posters like benjamin will deceitfully say he's english to try and imply the club has wide appeal which isn't the case. Usually in the same topic posters such as chris will be saying football is an ethnic game and his club is proudly greek and shouldn’t have to change etc. It's insincere posting on benjamins's part.

I'm English, southmelb is not Greek (Italian I think, or is that Kriskrash?), neither of us have any problem supporting South. It's never been suggested that the club has WIDE appeal, merely that they are not exclusively Greek, nor are non-Greeks made unwelcome.

For the second part, if we had a truly local competition, there would be no question of loyalty, there should be no problem supporting a local team in the state league and a state representative in a national competition, like what happens in other sports. The question is why is this an issue for some state league clubs, such as yours, it's because we don't have a genuinely local competition yet.



Off topic, but every other post has been in this topic so it doesn’t matter. You’ve always been front and centre in every expansion topic pushing this idea, despite there being no logical basis for it *and no other league in the world adopting that expansion policy*. The only retort you’ve ever supplied to those facts are all games are considered equal for TV revenue and *this is plain untrue*.

Of course, you're quite right, we shouldn't be promoting the idea that viable bids be considered. Far better to have unviable bid in diverse areas, than have viable bids in strong areas. As for the tv deal... FACT - the primary interest of Foxtel is the volume of coverage and that they retain coverage in the major markets (this is why Brisbane was protected but Townsville got the shaft) - the tv deal is worth more with 12 sides playing 6 games each weekend, than it is with 10 teams playing 5. It would be better still with 16 playing 8. These are facts. There is only one market which can add any significant value in terms of numbers - West Sydney - and everyone accepts that they are the most important expansion market. Any other regional market is of relatively little value to Fox, as demonstrated by the FFA allowing Fury to die.


Chris, unlike you TOB is actually intelligent, has a decent football brain and is able to form a logical argument, he just gets frustrated by insincere posters.

When he does posters such as yourself, Arthur and benjamin all get giddy with excitement and you attempt to belittle him, because if you actually had to deal with the factual basis of his posts, you’d struggle as when he's not angry, more often than not what he posts *is right*.

[color=red]ton.of.bricks tried to argue on a factual basis for a while - but didn't like it when anyone put up a strong counter argument. He very soon started accusing anyone who disagreed with him as being a multi of mine. He reduced himself to a figure of fun amongst many posters on the forum.[color]

But you don't see any problem with the current levels...

Of course, you're quite right, we shouldn't be promoting the idea that viable bids be considered. Far better to have unviable bid in diverse areas, than have viable bids in strong areas. As for the tv deal... FACT - the primary interest of Foxtel is the volume of coverage and that they retain coverage in the major markets (this is why Brisbane was protected but Townsville got the shaft) - the tv deal is worth more with 12 sides playing 6 games each weekend, than it is with 10 teams playing 5. It would be better still with 16 playing 8. These are facts. There is only one market which can add any significant value in terms of numbers - West Sydney - and everyone accepts that they are the most important expansion market. Any other regional market is of relatively little value to Fox, as demonstrated by the FFA allowing Fury to die.

But seriously, let's stay on topic. Let's forget the allegations of deliberately misunderstanding things... PLEASE explain how your concept works, and let's discuss it with an open mind.

That'd be me.

I kind of find it awkward as a non-greek going to Oakleigh matches...

Not enough Christian, white boys?

Seriously, shut the fuck up. I'm not some devout Christian guy.

I kind of find it awkward as a non-greek going to Oakleigh matches...

I never said that. I said i was more concerned about the lack of mechanisms when a few people were bringing up what crowd figure we should be targeting. My opinion is lets have as many connections as possible between the levels, which appear to be non-existent currently and see what happens. I'd rather take that point of view, than lets say 1000 people is an acceptable figure and then not do any more to improve.

Once again, I fail to understand how combining (for example) clubs in Doncaster, Blackburn, Ringwood and Croydon, none of whom attract crowds, and giving them a team in the VPL - 'Outer Eastern Suburbs FC', will generate larger crowds than the current system.

Are we working on the idea that the clubs (as with the above example) merge and run a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th team - rather than have 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th divisions. Is the theory that supporters players with ties to all four teams, plus the youth teams U10-U18, would all support the hybrid club at the top level?


The Fury were ‘content’ and their axing for as little as $1-2 million over three years, shows exactly how little content adds to a TV deal.

You’ve somehow got the idea in your head that because fox require a club in each of the major cities that exempts the other teams from having any TV value. Wrong.

Nope, not my idea at all. My notion is that if North Queensland doesn't add a market worth fighting for in it's own right, then how many geographical markets are really out there beyond West Sydney? Canberra, Tasmania, Wollongong? Do they add that much more than North Queensland? And if they don't, are we forever limited to an 11 team competition? In the perfect world, a larger league providing extra content for Fox and wider geographic markets would be best (which is why I posted on another thread that the ideal expansion is West Sydney, Nth Qld, Tas, Canberra, South Coast, and another) - but in the real world, a 16 team competition, composed of viable operations is more desireable than a 10 team competition with a nice wide footprint.

The AFL is the same, it has been looking to move viable or near viable melbourne based teams for years because they don’t add much to the TV deal.

Principally because with so many teams in Melbourne the game is at saturation point. As you say yourself - they are looking to move 'near viable' teams elsewhere - NEAR viable teams because they are NOT viable. If they were viable, they wouldn't have an issue. Which is why I keep banging on about VIABLE bids.



The OP explains the basic logic, there is no more to add to that. Your confusion was as to why we might introduce mechanisms if i was apparently happy with crowd figure, not related to the OP itself. The criticisms of the OP were non-evidence based, things like football is different, zones don’t work, we must protect the identity of low interest clubs, price is too expensive etc. Essentially thinking with the heart rather than the head.

The issue of *how* mechanisms might be implemented or whether some are more suited than others due to local conditions is open to debate and those with better local knowledge would be able to give a greater insight. I was just putting up the pitiful crowd figure for a gf, the current lack of mechanisms from the top down and bottom up and what other sports use, no more or less.

Once again, I fail to see why you think 4,000 is pitiful for a local, semi-pro competition with high ticket prices (double regular entry costs). Ticket prices usually rise according to demand - we can sell 50,000 but there's only 40,000 seats, up the price... When you are playing a game at a 30,000 venue, and the two teams average about 1,500 between them, upping the price from $12 to $25 per ticket simply pushes the casual fan away.

I went up to Shepparton the other week for their local league grand final - $10 entry against $8 for league fixtures. Turn out was about 2,000 - for a football match in the middle of country Victoria. Lovely community atmosphere because the local football association works with the clubs and engages the local community even though it's Aussie Rules country.