but haven't you been stating that it's not the leader but the party and it's politics??

i'd much prefer a turnbull led coalition, especially over the joke we have now

alot of this is to do with media manipulation, they say you can't polish a turd, but they did an excellent job with Gillard , so anything is possible

Actually I've been saying that it's the electorate and its ability (or lack thereof) to make sound voting decisions based on literacy over populism. Fear of Abbott is justified.


This is something we can agree on.

Edited by notorganic: 14/2/2012 10:53:41 AM

yes well i agree on the electorates ability to make sound voting decisions......

probably what initiates 99% of my posts, the apathy of voters...

What do you guys think about Abbott not allowing MP's to vote for any ALP legislation on threat of internal punishment? It's a bit grubby and destructive, isn't it?

Party politics, is counterproductive to good Government, or is it?

I think it's serving him well politically, but is extremely destructive to the nation and he needs to be held accountable for that.

Both parties do it mate. You really think 100% of Labor MP's are in favor of a carbon tax? Don't bet on it, BOTH parties vote in a block. Thats how they work, you have the party room which is away from the camera's in which all the MP's can discuss the bills up before parliament, and then vote which way the PARTY will vote, and then they go out there and vote based on the decision that the PARTY made. Both Labor and the Libs do this, this is nothing new mate! The only real difference is Labor MP's are better at keeping their descent of a party decision inside the party room, but the nature of the coalition means that you have people from different parties grouping together and therefore their is always more descent voiced publically then with Labor.



The polls say Abbott would win easily if an election was held tomorrow, so I don't see how you can argue that point. Abbott also regained the position of preferred PM over Gillard in the latest news polls released today, so again, I don't know how you can argue that point.

You can be assured the second an election is called the polls will tighten significantly, indeed the Liberal Party may very well win under Abbott although it is by no means a lock...more likely the Liberal Party leader come the next election will be Turnbull. the ball is still very much in the Labor Parties court...how they resolve their own leadership issue will be the determining factor in who wins the next election...and by how much!

I'm not disputing what your saying, but fact is the polls say that more people want an Abbott led Government then a Gillard led Government. So notorganic's statement is hard to quantify.

Also, Turnbull is not coming back, he isn't even on the radar, this forum is seriously the only place I can see where Turnbull is being seriously talked about. Hockey is much further up the pecking order then Turnbull now, there is very very little chance the opposition will go back to him. He was a failure, nice bloke, good policies, but ultimately he was a failure.

I hope your wrong on Turnbull as I felt he had a lot to offer, the problem(one of) with the Labor Party is finding alternatives to Gillard...the only obvious candidate is Rudd, and he may very well be electoral poison.

not when nyou consider that's how the labor caucus operates

Haven’t you Aussies got rid of her yet. Every time I see her on TV over here I cringe for you.

Clarky was bad enough, this Gillard is a horror. No class.

i have to say the polls are just a way of the media influencing the public, let's face it a large majority of people who vote are sheep,just follow the leader, and polls are manipulated.

LOL.....=d>

I think I've been pretty clear with the whole "both parties are bad and play the politics game" line throughout political threads on this forum. I've been branded a labor gimp because of it.

How do you justify using that argument to defend Abbott and remain stridently Anti-Gillard?

fair enough matt, i aplogise for labelling you a labor gimp...

well i'd have to say that the Gillard led labor government is apparently in charge of our nation, so i feel that the problems we see day in day out are their responsibilty and they need to be held accountable.

We need to remember that this IS a Minority government and as such they do not have the power to push through legislation (thank god), so how can you blame the Abbott led coalition for not supporting their bills??? I'm 100% certain that labor would do the same, they have in the past.

the whole focus should be on Gillards labor government being dysfunctional and incompetent as the Solar,BER,insulation,petrolwatch,grocery watch,asylum seekers, schools web rating ETC ETC would suggest

oh and the same arguement could be levelled at you, as to why you defend Gillard....

just saying.....

how's the bub, she on solids and teething yet?

Reading The Herald Sun this morning, I wonder if Andrew Bolt will be as critical of Abbott's lies. It's a disproportionate level of criticism, and I'm still unsure whether it's because she's a woman or really just that incompetent.

any specific lies of Abbott's??

She's that incompetent. Don't shoot the messenger.

A small example in the context of Andrew Bolt's relentless crucification of Gillard on Carbon "facts", Abbott once boldly claimed that China was increasing its carbon output by 500%.

So was he just incorrect, or just lying? Was he misled or was he misleading? And where was the rabid criticism of the false nature of his statements that has been frontline news when it comes to Gillard?

[youtube]DMmhwr4gg7U[/youtube]

Edited by notorganic: 15/2/2012 10:56:39 AM

Who's the messenger that I'm shooting?

Batfink, or Andrew Bolt?

I don't think either have proven to anyone that they don't have an underlying agenda in their criticism, so it's not an impartial opinion that I can assess.

I was talking about Bolt. Yeah he's a bit of a douche, but what is he saying that is incorrect about the Gillard government?

There are many things that Andrew Bolt says that are both incorrect and loaded with agenda driven language.

Let's try to be a little more specific about the article you alluded to reading this morning.

drawing a long long bow on the lie.... i would think

what's your agenda matt????

and tell me what you THINK mine is???

clever politicians always play with words,

EG: Abbott say's india/china have no plans for a "carbon tax",

they have plans for a trial of a ETS...so he is correct and ETS is not a tax....

Are you saying Gillard is a clever politician?