Are you saying Gillard is a clever politician?

she is also a compulsive liar, all politicians are comes with the territory

Fixed that for you mate ;)

Speaking of me getting into politics, I've actually considered it a bit recently.

There's a hitch, though. There's currently no party that is able to accomodate my world view. I would either need to run as an independant or form a new party that took parts of liberalism and socialism.

Easy thing to say...



Isn't that pretty much Labor's platform?

Easy thing to say...



Isn't that pretty much Labor's platform?

Liberalism is what the Liberal party used to stand for but is now an oxymoron. What is as scarce as hen's teeth nowadays, small 'l' liberals. Malcom Turnbull is a close as you'll get. The Lib party now more akin to the right of the US Republican Party

I can agree that under Abbott the Liberal party have moved more to the right, but holy shit how far to the extreme left are the labor party now days?

Are you saying Gillard is a clever politician?

With the Greens required for numbers support, this government is further left than usual for recent times, on some things. In my time, (too long) the modern day Labor party from the time of Whitlam, for example, has moved from a leftist socialist party very close to what the greens are now, to very much right to where the Liberals where years ago. And the Libs have moved much further to the right.

But the big gulf in policy, ideals and practice that once existed, has narrowed considerably. In my opinion, as a result of the move by both parties towards populism politics.

Lets not forget that the labor party in the past, from the very first PM right up to pre Whitlam and Arthur Calwell, supported the White Australia policy. They went from nationalism to socialism and back again like a giddy drunk.

And the liberal party and it's conservative predecessor moved back and forth from far right nationalists and liberalism.

Research how much the former careers of politicians have altered over the years to find that the majority are now career politicians with the country becoming more and more devoid of actual peer representative government. One of the reasons I have little respect for the vast majority of politicians, regardless of their leaning, is they now live in a plastic, self serving world without the life experiences and ideals that once existed.

Edited by skeptic: 15/2/2012 09:00:09 PM

probably more so with the Labor candidates.

This i haven't checked, but many come through both the young libs and young labor while at uni and stay with the party, often moving into the party machine or affiliated organisations as admin, officials and political staffers.

Labor leadership not discussed in US meet

by: AAP, Phillip Hudson From: Herald Sun, AAP February 16, 2012 11:13AM

UPDATE: A SECRET diplomatic report of a June 2010 meeting between Kim Beazley and Hillary Clinton suggests the pair did not discuss Labor leadership rumblings.

The ABC's Four Corners program this week reported that US officials caught wind of the plot to oust then-prime minister Kevin Rudd several weeks before Julia Gillard's challenge.

It said Ms Clinton, the US Secretary of State, subsequently called in Mr Beazley, Australia's ambassador to Washington, to seek assurances that the bilateral relationship would not change under a new leader.

But Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Secretary Dennis Richardson said the classified cable Mr Beazley's team sent back to Canberra shortly after the June 11 meeting makes no mention of discussions about the leadership.

"That was not the subject of the meeting and that was not what was discussed between Secretary Clinton and Ambassador Beazley," Mr Richardson told a Senate estimates hearing today.

"The meeting was about professional matters relating to Australia and the United States."

Mr Richardson described the cable - which he declined to provide to the committee - as "short" and "business-like" but would not enter into any greater descriptive detail.

"There is nothing in that cable that in any way links up with the Four Corners report," he said in response to persistent Opposition questioning.

But Mr Richardson conceded Ms Clinton and Mr Beazley may before or after the official meeting have engaged in a more informal chat that was not reported back to Canberra.

"It's certainly very common when you meet with senior US officials from time to time, if you know them well, for passing informal comments to be made," he said.

"There's nothing unusual about that. And you normally wouldn't report such informal exchanges.

"Only if it had particular significance, particular relevance to policy and other matters would you report such an exchange."

Meanwhile, Ms Gillard's supporters say Mr Rudd should have the guts to bring on a challenge or declare his full support for the Prime Minister until the next election.

Labor insiders say Mr Rudd has at least 25 of the 103 caucus votes.

The Foreign Affairs Minister's supporters say if a ballot were held now he would get more than 40 votes but narrowly fall short of the 52 needed to win.

Sources said he would go to the back bench and, like Paul Keating did 20 years ago, make a second strike a few months later.

But Ms Gillard's backers say Mr Rudd has nowhere near 40 votes and have told the Herald Sun that if Mr Rudd failed to get at least 42 in the first ballot he would not be a credible candidate.

The PM's supporters said she would not spill the leadership and was getting on with her job, but they admitted this week's Four Corners interview that revived leadership talk was a blunder.

Mr Rudd was last night quizzed about claims Ms Gillard used secret ALP polling to lobby against him when he was PM.

Ms Gillard's office has denied the allegation.

"This is a matter for history, and these were events 18 months ago, and I think these are questions to appropriately put to other people," Mr Rudd told Nine News.

There were more important, pressing challenges on the nation's agenda.

Independent MP Rob Oakeshott said there was no doubt Mr Rudd wanted to be PM again.

Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said the leadership was settled in 2010.

With Matt Johnston

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/put-up-or-shut-up-call-to-kevin-rudd/story-fn7x8me2-1226272147420

I guess the difference is that people involved with the young libs still need to have a real job to keep them going until they can make the leap to politics.

Many libs began as lib staffers as did labor menbers. Don't take it for granted that all the former union people had spent all their working lives in that field. Some did, many didn't and had 'real' jobs. Don't forget, the Labor party began as the political representative of the worker class, though that's largely gone by the wayside over the last decade since the right wing of the party took control.

I was a workplace union president and also an employer of up to 20 staff running my own business for 25 years and am still self employed. And I don't differ from most, other than a better understanding of both sides the coin. And no, i haven't voted Labor since Keating and first voted for Whitlam.

I despise the failure of Gillard, the conservative religious beholding of Rudd and Abbott and the thing i'd never thought i'd live to see in this country, the indefinite detention of children. I abhore the Howard years of competing for the Hanson voters and the existing race to the bottom by both major parties in their populist bidding contests.

I've no idea of what 'union orientated' is perceived as in your mind and in this context.

As is the case with many but likely not most workers, many but likely not most managers have no understanding of what the picture looks like from their side of the fence, many but likely not most, don't care to know and if they did have previous experience, many but likely not most, forget.

I'm 'fair & reasonable orientated', from both perspectives.

Brighten up Aussies, Treasury chief says

February 17, 2012 - 3:17PM

Some surprisingly upbeat economic indicators both here and offshore.counter the gloom over job losses.

The country is much too gloomy over the ongoing European debt crisis and the economic outlook is much more promising than Australians realise, the federal Treasury says

"It is almost as if most Australians seem to think we live in Greece. We don't. We actually have an incredibly bright future ahead of us," the head of the Treasury Department, Martin Parkinson, told a Senate hearing.

"There is an overwhelming negative sense about much of the national discussion and debate," he added.

Aussies should cheer up a bit, Treasury suggests.

Private sector measures of Australian consumer and business confidence have edged up in early 2012, but the Westpac Bank-Melbourne Institute index of consumer sentiment is still 5.2 per cent lower than a year ago.

Dr Parkinson said low levels of confidence did not reflect Australia's strong opportunities due to economic shifts in China and India.

While Australia's had a multi-speed economy, with some sectors struggling, Australians had a lot to be optimistic about.

Fuelled by a booming resources sector, Australia's unemployment rate fell to a six-month low of 5.1 per cent in January from 5.3 per cent in December. The central bank yesterday said it saw good reasons to expect solid growth and contained inflation for the next two years.

However, manufacturers have been shedding jobs, blaming a high Australian dollar that has been trading above parity with the US dollar over the past year, for hurting exports and competitiveness.

Dr Parkinson said old measures of direct industry protection, as seen in Australia in the 1960s and 1970s, might not work now and Australia should look at helping manufacturers transform to more high-end and specialised skilled work.

Credibility lost

Separately, Dr Parkinson also said he believes returning the federal budget to surplus is sensible, given the current state of the Australia economy.

He said the economy was growing at around trend, unemployment looked to hold at about 5.5 per cent and broadly around full employment, while inflation was in the middle of a two to three per cent target band.

‘‘In those circumstances, bringing the budget back to surplus makes sense, and we think that’s the right sort of policy to be pursued,’’ he told the hearing.

In contrast, he said most countries in Europe, with the exception of Germany, had lost fiscal credibility.

‘‘That question has never been raised around the Australian government,’’ he said.

Dr Parkinson was also puzzled about how Europe would get back to a more sensible fiscal position.

He noted that when Greece started its fiscal consolidation, its economy was expected to shrink by 2 per cent.

Instead, Greece’s GDP had shrunk by 8 per cent in the past year.

‘‘How you can consolidate back into a sensible fiscal position, when your economy is shrinking that rapidly is completely beyond me,’’ Dr Parkinson said.

And it is not just Greece having to take such fiscal consolidation - Italy, Spain, Portugal, the UK, France, and even Germany are also doing it.

‘‘It’s no surprise that we have taken the view that Europe’s going to be both in recession and probably a source of global instability for a number of years to come,’’ Dr Parkinson said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/brighten-up-aussies-treasury-chief-says-20120217-1tcyo.html#ixzz1mdCdx8Hg

War looms as PM's loyalists turn on Rudd

Peter Hartcher, Phillip Coorey
February 18, 2012

SOME cabinet ministers have begun lobbying for caucus votes in support of the Prime Minister, criticising Kevin Rudd and betraying anxiety that he is gaining support.

A small group of ministers this week privately canvassed Labor MPs in an effort to shore up support for Julia Gillard. At least two of them bad-mouthed the potential challenger, the Foreign Affairs Minister, in the process. It is the clearest evidence yet that Ms Gillard's position is under real threat and her most senior supporters are worried.

Backbenchers who have been canvassed say that in the past few days the Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, the Minister for Employment, Bill Shorten, and the Minister for Trade, Craig Emerson, have made the case for retaining Ms Gillard and opposing Mr Rudd.

One MP told colleagues Ms Roxon warned him a return to a Rudd prime ministership would bring chaotic government and destroy the party.

She told him that when Mr Rudd was prime minister she would appear with him in her capacity as Health Minister to make public announcements, but didn't know what he was planning to say until he started speaking.

One member of cabinet who does not want Mr Rudd back said those on the backbench who favoured change were ''delusional'' and it was the duty of senior Gillard supporters to spread this message.

''I don't want them to be under any illusion about how bad it was and how bad it will be,'' the minister said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

''If we don't start doing this, it will get a bigger head of steam than it already has.''

The head of the NSW Labor branch, Sam Dastyari, spoke out in support of Ms Gillard yesterday. "As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a ballot for the leadership and there isn't a need for one. If one were to arise, I would rigidly stick to my view that it is the role of the party machine to support the leader and bring stability to party leadership," he told the Herald.

"That is a case I would make on behalf of party members to all NSW Labor MPs," of whom there are 20 out of a caucus of 103, he said.

Privately, Mr Dastyari is assuring MPs that old-style Sussex Street head-kicking is dead and that head office will not threaten any member's preselection to enforce its will on the leadership. Consequently, the MPs have taken that as a green light to support whoever they wish. An estimated seven of the 20 are likely Rudd votes at the moment.

While Mr Rudd was campaigning again in Queensland yesterday, the Gillard camp was eager to shoot down the theory that a Labor wipeout at the March 24 state election will put further pressure on Ms Gillard's leadership because she is unpopular in Queensland.

They pointed out that the opinion polls have shown the Queensland Premier, Anna Bligh, has been facing annihilation since early 2010, when Mr Rudd was still prime minister, due to the unpopularity of the state government.

Ms Gillard is planning to campaign in Queensland herself while one of her most ardent backers, Mr Shorten, plans at least two visits to the campaign.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/war-looms-as-pms-loyalists-turn-on-rudd-20120217-1teic.html#ixzz1mgcqcmbw

Kevin Rudd swearing outburst exposed on YouTube in 'happy little vegemite' video

by: Samantha Maiden From: Herald Sun February 18, 2012 9:11PM

KEVIN Rudd's expletive laden outburst in the out takes of a taxpayer-funded video have emerged as an internet sensation after it was posted on YouTube under the title "Kevin Rudd is a happy little vegemite"

As the Prime Minister's backers declare war on the Foreign Minister's fitness for office, the video has caused a sensation on the social networking site Twitter tonight.

The video, which is not dated, clearly shows an exasperated Mr Rudd swearing as he repeatedly fluffs his lines

"Mate, this is just impossible. I get the very end. You can tell these dickheads in the embassy to just give me simple sentences. I've said this before,'' Mr Rudd says.

"Tell that bloody interpreter. This f***ing language just complicates it so much, you know. How can anyone do this. It's just..

"Tell em to cancel this meeting at 6pm ...I don't have the patience to deal with. The f***ing Chinese interpreter. Just f***ing hopeless,'' he says.

The video was uploaded by "Happy Little Vegemite" on Friday, Mr Rudd has repeatedly used the term when asked if he would launch a challenge against Julia Gillard for the Labor leadership.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/kevin-rudds-not-a-happy-little-vegemite/story-fn7x8me2-1226274678702

Government totally dysfunctional: Abbott

February 18, 2012 - 11:02AM


Labor's internal war over the leadership has paralysed the federal government, made it totally dysfunctional and a fresh election is needed, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says.

Mr Abbott has seized on reports Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd is preparing to challenge Prime Minister Julia Gillard for the Labor leadership.

The Australian reports Mr Rudd has 40 of the 52 votes he needs to topple Ms Gillard, predicting he will have a tilt at the leadership ahead of the May federal budget.

It has also been reported the NSW Right faction will allow its members to vote for whoever they want.

Mr Abbott said the federal government was completely dysfunctional and the situation could not go on.

"Right now in Canberra the government is at war with itself," he told reporters in Brisbane, while campaigning with LNP leader Campbell Newman.

"We've really got three Labor parties at the moment, we've got the Gillard Labor party, the Rudd Labor party and the neither Labor party."

The problem was not the Labor leader but the party's policies, with another election needed, Mr Abbott said.

"We've got to change the policies of the government, not just change the leader of the government.

"And the way to change policies is to change the government and have an election.

"I think the government of Australia is too important to be paralysed while the faceless men try and decide who the leader should be."

Mr Rudd campaigned in Brisbane yesterday, with Mr Abbott saying while he and Mr Newman had been talking to Queenslanders, the foreign minister had basically been talking about himself.

"If the problem is that we have a totally dysfunctional federal government it cannot go on like this," Mr Abbott said.

"In the end it's not just a question of changing leaders.

"I would like to see our country better governed.

"It won't be better governed until we've got better policies in place."

Finance Minister Penny Wong reaffirmed her support for Ms Gillard when pressed on the leadership issue on Saturday.

"I've got a job to do," she told Sky News.

Senator Wong's response mirrored that of the prime minister when questioned on Friday if it would be better to have a spill and clear the air once and for all.

AAP


Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/political-news/government-totally-dysfunctional-abbott-20120218-1tfm0.html#ixzz1mjSIMBAw

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