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paulc
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90% of the private workforce hasn’t joined a union. The majority of the 10% who did are public servants. If the unions used their member’s money on their members instead of giving it to Labor to overblow the size of an already inefficient and budget sucking public service, the better.
In a resort somewhere
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paulbagzFC
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+xshould always be on the menu. If only they did their job properly for their members and the bigger picture. Can you explain how they aren't, and what that bigger picture is? -PB
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LFC.
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should always be on the menu. If only they did their job properly for their members and the bigger picture.
Love Football
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paulbagzFC
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The Morrison government has seized upon widespread calls for CFMMEU Victorian leader John Setka to step down to renew its commitment to passing legislation that would enable it to deregister law-breaking unions and ban officials for misconduct. Energy Minister Angus Taylor confirmed on Wednesday the re-elected Coalition government would use its increased majority in the lower house and a newly constituted Senate to launch a fresh crackdown on unions by seeking to pass its failed Ensuring Integrity Bill. Cabinet minister Angus Taylor says the government will bring its union-busting Ensuring Integrity Bill on for debate.CREDIT:ALEX ELLINGHAUSEN "We will bring it forward again and the right answer here is for Labor, for Anthony Albanese, to work with us to put this legislation through the Parliament," Mr Taylor told reporters in Canberra. "It's possible, although it appears at this point not likely, that John Setka may leave the CFMEU - but there are many more union thugs where he came from." The bill would need the support of at least four crossbench senators to pass into law, as Labor and the Greens have previously blocked it. Tony Burke, Labor's industrial relations spokesperson, said: "The detail of the bill that was introduced in 2017 didn't even match the Government's own description of it. I presume if they're going to introduce a bill with that title again, they'll change the detail and we'll look at it then." A source close to the government said the bill would be treated as "a priority", but it remains unclear whether it will be debated in the first week of the new Parliament, which sits from July 2. Mr Taylor called on Mr Albanese to cut ties with the powerful Construction, Forestry, Maritime, Mining and Energy Union, after the Labor leader on Tuesday vowed to push for Mr Setka's expulsion from the Labor Party over his comments about anti-violence campaigner Rosie Batty. "John Setka leaving the CFMEU is a no-brainer. The question is whether Labor will leave the CFMEU," he said. "Anthony Albanese has some hard questions to answer about whether he is prepared to sever ties." John Setka says reports he denigrated anti-violence campaigner Rosie Batty are false and he won't quit as CFMMEU secretary. Labor education spokeswoman Tanya Plibersek - formerly the party's deputy leader and shadow minister for women - said on Wednesday that Mr Setka's comments "don't represent the values of our party and I don't think they represent the values of mainstream Australia". Mr Albanese declined to comment. Mr Taylor repeated the catchcry of former Industrial Relations Minister Kelly O'Dwyer - echoed by Prime Minister Scott Morrison on Tuesday - that the union "has been described by the Federal Court as the most recidivist corporate offender in Australian history". "Right now, CFMEU representatives are facing 79 charges in the courts. They've accumulated already $16 million of fines, and counting ... It is time for the Labor Party to sever ties with the CFMEU and that includes donations and affiliates." The CFMMEU has donated millions of dollars to the Labor Party in recent years and incurred $16 million worth of fines this financial year for workplace law breaches. Mr Setka's lawyer has told the Melbourne Magistrates Court he will plead guilty later this month to harassing a woman. On Wednesday, Mr Setka refused to step down from his position as secretary of the CFMMEU's Victorian construction branch, claiming his comment that Rosie Batty's advocacy had left men with fewer rights had been misinterpreted as part of a political vendetta against him. Coalition backbencher and former industrial relations minister Eric Abetz slammed the Labor Party for a "complete failure of moral leadership" in continuing to "support and maintain relationships with the John Setkas of the world". Senator Abetz said the Ensuring Integrity Bill, which failed to secure enough support in the Senate last year, was "unfinished business" and must be enacted to clean up the unions. Australian Conservatives senator Cory Bernardi and One Nation leader Pauline Hanson, who controls two Senate votes, are expected to support the bill. Centre Alliance senators Rex Patrick and Stirling Griff are open to legislating to address misconduct by union officials, but would seek to ensure that similar provisions apply to corporate leaders, posing complications for the government. It means newly re-elected Tasmanian Senator Jacqui Lambie, who has warned the Morrison government it would need to treat her "a hell of a lot better" if it wanted her support on legislation, could hold the deciding vote. Ms Lambie could not be reached for comment before deadline. The Ensuring Integrity Bill seeks to implement recommendations of the Trade Union Royal Commission to enable the Federal Court to ban union leaders from holding office if they break the law, repeatedly fail to stop their organisation from doing so or are "not a fit and proper person". It would empower the court to deregister a union if it, or members, repeatedly breached industrial or other laws, took "obstructive unprotected industrial action" in large numbers or if its officials were found to have engaged in corrupt conduct. The bill would also make it an offence for a person to continue to act as an official, or in a way that influences the affairs of an organisation, once disqualified.  -PB
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moops
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. 1. "Give tax cuts to the wealthy", You mean anyone who isn't a welfare recipient? Shortens Top end of Town. You do know that half the nations workers don't pay tax? So how can you give them a "tax cut"? 2. You don't understand how franking credits worked and you are exactly the person Shorten sought to exploit because of your financial illeteracy on the subject. You swallowed his lies and misinformation that it was a GIFT. Thats how politics of envy and division work.
3. Ah the Shorten and Bowen mantra : This will only affect a small number of people... who will not vote for us anyway Labor had zero plans to grow the pie. I'll Take of off THEM and Ill give it to YOU if you vote for me. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution. 1. No I mean corporations and people in the top income tax bracket. Labor also had income tax cuts in its election promises but were more targeted. 2. :laugh: You got me /s. Giving someone money when they paid no income tax when the rest of us can only use franking credits to reduce our tax liability to zero is not a GIFT. The Liberals, apart from tax cuts had no plans AT ALL. 2. :laugh: Clearly you have NFI what franking credits are, who's money the dividend is, what company tax is, what the purpose of the 30% tax company tax rate is, what the tax free threshold is, and how all that interacts with the tax free nature of super in the draw down phase- which ultimately is who Shorten was attacking, specifically those who were self-funded. The very people that Keating wanted to have more of when he devised Australia's super scheme. FYI a company is a separate legal entity that pays tax on profits that remain within the company structure for example to use to fund things for company use like R and D, plant and equipment, expansion of the business. Profits that are distributed as dividends to the legal owners of the company the shareholders are taxed initially at 30% but this is a type of witholding tax because it is impossible for the company to know what each shareholders marginal tax rate will be. If it turns the marginal rate is more than the tax already paid, the shareholder pays an *additional* amount. If the marginal rate is less, they get a refund of the difference. If the marghinal rate is zero, no tax was due and they get it all back. So here it is in black and white straight from Treasury: "Company income tax has two basic roles: as a withholding tax on" income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company; http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_8-03.htm Consequently the ATO "attributes" the company tax to the shareholders: https://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publications/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=4
The shareholders declare the full pre-company tax dividend as their income on their tax return. That's because it is THEIR money, not the company's and THEY not the company are liable to pay tax.
Australian shareholders are private citizens and they pay tax as per the PAYG tax scales: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ These tax scales include a tax free threshold. Any income under that threshold attracts no tax. This includes "income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company". Some of these people are self=funded retirees with money outside of super investing for something better than the 2% bank deposit returns.
Shorten and Bowen wanted to make this group pay tax at 30%, higher than the vast majority of Australians.
So stop repeating the claim they received a "gift. They paid tax, when none was due. They are getting it back because none was due.
What Shorten and Labor hate is those who did the right thing and became self-funded in their old age. The politics of envy, division, under-pinned by lies and misinformation exploiting the financial ililteracy of people, like you for example.
"Don't like it, Don't vote for us".. Thanks for the advice Chris. We didn't. Enjoy the next 3 and likely 6 years in opposition. 12 years in all. Making it 23 out of the last 29 years. Yay Labor.
Great post! Regrettably, you are correct in that not many actually understand the tax system which is why a Shorten win would have been devastating for fairness, because self funded retirees would be slugged even if they were at the bottom tier. It's a withholding tax and retiree share holders only pay in accordance with their tax bracket and that is dependent on what they earn. You can't for instance charge the rich ones an *additional* amount if they are wealthy and are in the top tax bracket if low income retirees can't claim the 30% back if they are on the bottom tiers. Most people are just too dumb to understand. And you know the kicker in all this? They blame Howard but it had bipartisan support with a Beazley Opposition MP of the day saying We support this policy because it is OUR policy.." More lies and misinformation and re-writing of history by Australia's Regressive Left. The ALP today is a lot more whacked out and they are actually punishing their own working class battlers. I think that the fact that Latham is now a ON senator shows how far to the left Labor has drifted. Some might argue it's because Latham has changed, not Labor, however there's no doubt that Labor's current policies are a lot closer to the Greens of the 90s than to Labor of the same era. A lot of this can be explained by candidates who would otherwise vote for the Greens making a pragmatic decision to run for the Labor party to boost their chances of entering parliament. This tactic has become so commonplace that Greens ideology has now completely infected the Labor party and they are now the dominant faction. This also pretty much explains why their policy agenda is so whacked out and they no longer represent mainstream, working class values. This, labour voter since the 90's, first time I put them last on my list, they don't represent me anymore and I don't care for their ideology.
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paulbagzFC
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NAB business survey declares ‘grim’ retail sector in recessionThe Australian economy has been dealt another blow, with a major bank declaring the retail sector is “clearly in recession”. The Australian economy has been dealt another blow with a leading business survey declaring the retail sector is “clearly in recession”. The data from major bank NAB comes a week after the Reserve Bank was forced to cut interest rates to its lowest level in history and Australian Bureau of Statistics data showed the economy had slowed to its weakest level since the global financial crisis in 2009. In figures released today, the NAB index of business conditions dropped two points in May, leaving it well below the long-run average. Speaking on the NAB Economics podcast, NAB group chief economist Alan Oster agreed with the proposition that the Australian retail sector was now “GFC-level terrible”. “Retail is really, really doing it tough, and it’s getting worse,” he said. The retail sector has been plagued with multiple company closures in the past two years but Mr Oster said conditions had deteriorated sharply over recent months. “While the retail industry has lagged the other sectors for some time, the recent deterioration has seen conditions in the industry fall to levels not seen since the GFC,” he said. RELATED: Roy Morgan unemployment data shows fewer Australians have jobs RELATED: Economy slows to its weakest in a decade RELATED: Expect another rate cut by the end of the year, RBA warns “This suggests that the consumer remains highly cautious with anything but spending on essentials because of ongoing slow income growth, high debt levels and possibly some concerns over falling house prices.” Mr Oster did not want to “overemphasise” the doom and gloom in the sector, but said “readings of -27, which we’ve got in retail, is so grim”. Figures showed consumers in Australia were reluctant to spend and the recently elected Morrison Government would need to deliver on its promised tax cuts to stimulate the economy, Mr Oster said. In contrast, the survey’s measure of business confidence rebounded seven points taking it just above the average. However, Queensland University of Technology associate professor and retail expert Gary Mortimer rejected the claims the sector was “clearly in recession”, saying such declarations were alarming for businesses. “Pointing to the recent release of the ABS retail sales for April, retail sales nationally rose 0.2 per cent in April,” he told news.com.au.
“This follows a rise of 0.2 per cent in March 2019, and a rise of 0.2 per cent in February.” Shoppers spent $27.3 billion in April, up from $26.5 billion at the same time last year. Food retailing rose 0.4 per cent in April driven by the discount department stores sector, which was up 0.2 per cent “However, footwear and clothing again struggled,” Dr Mortimer said. “Certain sectors are clearly struggling — such as apparel, footwear and accessories — however this category has been impacted by aggressive discounting and the entry of international fast fashion retailers.” The NAB survey’s measure of trading, or sales, slipped five points, while profitability fell four points. Forward orders also dropped a point. “Forward-looking indicators suggest that the bounce in confidence is likely to be short-lived and that conditions are unlikely to turn around any time soon,” Mr Oster said. One bright spot was a three-point bounce in the survey’s employment index, which pointed to some resilience in labour demand after the official jobless rate unexpectedly rose to 5.2 per cent in April. The RBA cited the need to push unemployment lower when it cut rates by a quarter point to 1.25 per cent, and said it would not be unreasonable to expect a further easing ahead.
-PB 
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rusty
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. 1. "Give tax cuts to the wealthy", You mean anyone who isn't a welfare recipient? Shortens Top end of Town. You do know that half the nations workers don't pay tax? So how can you give them a "tax cut"? 2. You don't understand how franking credits worked and you are exactly the person Shorten sought to exploit because of your financial illeteracy on the subject. You swallowed his lies and misinformation that it was a GIFT. Thats how politics of envy and division work.
3. Ah the Shorten and Bowen mantra : This will only affect a small number of people... who will not vote for us anyway Labor had zero plans to grow the pie. I'll Take of off THEM and Ill give it to YOU if you vote for me. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution. 1. No I mean corporations and people in the top income tax bracket. Labor also had income tax cuts in its election promises but were more targeted. 2. :laugh: You got me /s. Giving someone money when they paid no income tax when the rest of us can only use franking credits to reduce our tax liability to zero is not a GIFT. The Liberals, apart from tax cuts had no plans AT ALL. 2. :laugh: Clearly you have NFI what franking credits are, who's money the dividend is, what company tax is, what the purpose of the 30% tax company tax rate is, what the tax free threshold is, and how all that interacts with the tax free nature of super in the draw down phase- which ultimately is who Shorten was attacking, specifically those who were self-funded. The very people that Keating wanted to have more of when he devised Australia's super scheme. FYI a company is a separate legal entity that pays tax on profits that remain within the company structure for example to use to fund things for company use like R and D, plant and equipment, expansion of the business. Profits that are distributed as dividends to the legal owners of the company the shareholders are taxed initially at 30% but this is a type of witholding tax because it is impossible for the company to know what each shareholders marginal tax rate will be. If it turns the marginal rate is more than the tax already paid, the shareholder pays an *additional* amount. If the marginal rate is less, they get a refund of the difference. If the marghinal rate is zero, no tax was due and they get it all back. So here it is in black and white straight from Treasury: "Company income tax has two basic roles: as a withholding tax on" income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company; http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_8-03.htm Consequently the ATO "attributes" the company tax to the shareholders: https://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publications/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=4
The shareholders declare the full pre-company tax dividend as their income on their tax return. That's because it is THEIR money, not the company's and THEY not the company are liable to pay tax.
Australian shareholders are private citizens and they pay tax as per the PAYG tax scales: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ These tax scales include a tax free threshold. Any income under that threshold attracts no tax. This includes "income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company". Some of these people are self=funded retirees with money outside of super investing for something better than the 2% bank deposit returns.
Shorten and Bowen wanted to make this group pay tax at 30%, higher than the vast majority of Australians.
So stop repeating the claim they received a "gift. They paid tax, when none was due. They are getting it back because none was due.
What Shorten and Labor hate is those who did the right thing and became self-funded in their old age. The politics of envy, division, under-pinned by lies and misinformation exploiting the financial ililteracy of people, like you for example.
"Don't like it, Don't vote for us".. Thanks for the advice Chris. We didn't. Enjoy the next 3 and likely 6 years in opposition. 12 years in all. Making it 23 out of the last 29 years. Yay Labor.
Great post! Regrettably, you are correct in that not many actually understand the tax system which is why a Shorten win would have been devastating for fairness, because self funded retirees would be slugged even if they were at the bottom tier. It's a withholding tax and retiree share holders only pay in accordance with their tax bracket and that is dependent on what they earn. You can't for instance charge the rich ones an *additional* amount if they are wealthy and are in the top tax bracket if low income retirees can't claim the 30% back if they are on the bottom tiers. Most people are just too dumb to understand. And you know the kicker in all this? They blame Howard but it had bipartisan support with a Beazley Opposition MP of the day saying We support this policy because it is OUR policy.." More lies and misinformation and re-writing of history by Australia's Regressive Left. The ALP today is a lot more whacked out and they are actually punishing their own working class battlers. I think that the fact that Latham is now a ON senator shows how far to the left Labor has drifted. Some might argue it's because Latham has changed, not Labor, however there's no doubt that Labor's current policies are a lot closer to the Greens of the 90s than to Labor of the same era. A lot of this can be explained by candidates who would otherwise vote for the Greens making a pragmatic decision to run for the Labor party to boost their chances of entering parliament. This tactic has become so commonplace that Greens ideology has now completely infected the Labor party and they are now the dominant faction. This also pretty much explains why their policy agenda is so whacked out and they no longer represent mainstream, working class values.
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mouflonrouge
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+xWas at a family birthday last night. Traditional Labor Heartland out in Melbourne's West. All Labor voters since Whitlam. Self-employed tradies, architects, a surveyor, labourers. People who worked hard, long hours and years who are now starting to get ahead. The passionate disgust and anger on display against Shorten and Bowen for wanting to take it away form them to give to others was a sight to behold. The penny has dropped. Labor isn't the Working Man and Woman's Party anymore. My family is traditionally Labor too. We as a family always voted ALP but the light bulb switched under Howard and no one has voted ALP since. This isn't the party for the working and lower classes anymore. It's a lot more elitist than anything and they have gone against their base and paying for it which is why I predicted they will lose. Factory workers were voting for the LNP last election because they wanted to keep their jobs.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. 1. "Give tax cuts to the wealthy", You mean anyone who isn't a welfare recipient? Shortens Top end of Town. You do know that half the nations workers don't pay tax? So how can you give them a "tax cut"? 2. You don't understand how franking credits worked and you are exactly the person Shorten sought to exploit because of your financial illeteracy on the subject. You swallowed his lies and misinformation that it was a GIFT. Thats how politics of envy and division work.
3. Ah the Shorten and Bowen mantra : This will only affect a small number of people... who will not vote for us anyway Labor had zero plans to grow the pie. I'll Take of off THEM and Ill give it to YOU if you vote for me. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution. 1. No I mean corporations and people in the top income tax bracket. Labor also had income tax cuts in its election promises but were more targeted. 2. :laugh: You got me /s. Giving someone money when they paid no income tax when the rest of us can only use franking credits to reduce our tax liability to zero is not a GIFT. The Liberals, apart from tax cuts had no plans AT ALL. 2. :laugh: Clearly you have NFI what franking credits are, who's money the dividend is, what company tax is, what the purpose of the 30% tax company tax rate is, what the tax free threshold is, and how all that interacts with the tax free nature of super in the draw down phase- which ultimately is who Shorten was attacking, specifically those who were self-funded. The very people that Keating wanted to have more of when he devised Australia's super scheme. FYI a company is a separate legal entity that pays tax on profits that remain within the company structure for example to use to fund things for company use like R and D, plant and equipment, expansion of the business. Profits that are distributed as dividends to the legal owners of the company the shareholders are taxed initially at 30% but this is a type of witholding tax because it is impossible for the company to know what each shareholders marginal tax rate will be. If it turns the marginal rate is more than the tax already paid, the shareholder pays an *additional* amount. If the marginal rate is less, they get a refund of the difference. If the marghinal rate is zero, no tax was due and they get it all back. So here it is in black and white straight from Treasury: "Company income tax has two basic roles: as a withholding tax on" income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company; http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_8-03.htm Consequently the ATO "attributes" the company tax to the shareholders: https://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publications/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=4
The shareholders declare the full pre-company tax dividend as their income on their tax return. That's because it is THEIR money, not the company's and THEY not the company are liable to pay tax.
Australian shareholders are private citizens and they pay tax as per the PAYG tax scales: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ These tax scales include a tax free threshold. Any income under that threshold attracts no tax. This includes "income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company". Some of these people are self=funded retirees with money outside of super investing for something better than the 2% bank deposit returns.
Shorten and Bowen wanted to make this group pay tax at 30%, higher than the vast majority of Australians.
So stop repeating the claim they received a "gift. They paid tax, when none was due. They are getting it back because none was due.
What Shorten and Labor hate is those who did the right thing and became self-funded in their old age. The politics of envy, division, under-pinned by lies and misinformation exploiting the financial ililteracy of people, like you for example.
"Don't like it, Don't vote for us".. Thanks for the advice Chris. We didn't. Enjoy the next 3 and likely 6 years in opposition. 12 years in all. Making it 23 out of the last 29 years. Yay Labor.
Great post! Regrettably, you are correct in that not many actually understand the tax system which is why a Shorten win would have been devastating for fairness, because self funded retirees would be slugged even if they were at the bottom tier. It's a withholding tax and retiree share holders only pay in accordance with their tax bracket and that is dependent on what they earn. You can't for instance charge the rich ones an *additional* amount if they are wealthy and are in the top tax bracket if low income retirees can't claim the 30% back if they are on the bottom tiers. Most people are just too dumb to understand. And you know the kicker in all this? They blame Howard but it had bipartisan support with a Beazley Opposition MP of the day saying We support this policy because it is OUR policy.." More lies and misinformation and re-writing of history by Australia's Regressive Left. In the old days under Bob Hawke, Keating and yes even Beazley, the ALP had sensible policies which were actually pro worker and pro aspirational too. There was no class warfare either. Shorten was extremely TOXIC! Not only that, but even Gillard and Rudd were not as TOXIC. The ALP today is a lot more whacked out and they are actually punishing their own working class battlers.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+xOne day they're removing tax concessions for the wealthy, the next they're dragging your family to the gulags. Wake up sheeple!!! Like a frog being boiled, The Regressive Left's supporters have no idea of whats happening around them. Anyone who has also read George Orwell's 1984 ( and Animal Farm) would immediately recognize the same Regressive Lefts tactics in operation today Chief among them is the changing of the meanings of words to mean the opposite of what they mean. Take the word "Gift" as used by Labor to describe Imputation credits. According to Labor and its voters, a Gift is when you get back your own money the government wasn't ever entitled to. Similarly, a tax deduction or concession is "Welfare for the Rich". Apparently keeping more of your own money is "Welfare" and you are The Rich. The Rich aka The Top End of Town is anyone else not on welfare. And so on.. The Regressive Left is a Totalitarian movement. built on dividing the people. They have no middle ground. "Don't like it? Don't vote for us" said it all really. That is exactly right. The entire taxation system is based on the notion that Governments can't Double Tax people. When corporations apply the 30% tax rate to profits that are distributed to shareholders - franking credit, they are depositing those funds belonging ti the shareholder. These funds are then distributed to them as personal income so if the share holder is in the high tax bracket (45%) not only do they NOT get the 30% franking credit but they got to stump up the other 15%. The double edge sword is this, that those share holders on the lower tax bracket, get the difference refunded to them. It's not a gift at all. We are so lucky the regressive left lost. I said it here on this forum weeks before the election that the ALP will lose because they were coming up with STUPID policies and proposing Double Taxation which is basically robbery!
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mouflonrouge
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+xAikhme's post patterns always amuse me > Gets totally blown the fuck out and exposed as either being a troll or sub 80IQ mongoloid > Abandons thread for a few pages until everyone forgets about his embarrassing posts (In the past week alone, we had him not being able to read the axis on a graph, being unable to open an excel file and also believing that the RBA has control over the FX rate) > Hop in with an asinine "hurr socialism bad" comment I actually work and have a life out of this forum. I couldn't give a stuff nor am I worried what people say here and btw, you are the troll because you are baiting me and making ridiculous accusations. I don't do that. I just tell it the way I see it and nothing more than that.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx If Marx were alive today he would not recognize the Labor party of 2019. He would not be fooled one bit by the inner city middle class hipsters dressed in workers party drag. His likely advice would be "Get a real job and ditch the identity politics schtick" Lmao bruh you need to stop watching the Jordan Peterson videos and start living in the real world. You're a caricature. Hahaha brilliant insight. It's almost like he tries to hit as many of his main talking points or catchphrases every time he post. I don't know who Jordan Petersen is, but both you do. Says more about you and your insecurties than it does about me. So far all you two have is ad homs. Typical regressive leftists MO. Have a look at this: https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/labor-failed-to-understand-the-aspirational-voter-20190530-p51sqq.htmlLook at the photo: "Labor supporters at the election night function for Opposition Leader Bill Shorten in Melbourne"
That photo is your typical modern labor voter group. Look at THEM. Especially the one in the glasses.
As enjoyable as it is to see the crushed and bewildered look on their faces, that's not what I am talking about
Do THEY look like your traditional working class, dirty work clothes and high viz types? You know, the group that deserted Labor?
As long as Labor panders to the Chardonnay Socialists and the militant far left identity politic fringe groups it will right remain in the political wilderness. That is the problem with the ALP. They have disenfranchised their very own base. Was at a family birthday last night. Traditional Labor Heartland out in Melbourne's West. All Labor voters since Whitlam. Self-employed tradies, architects, a surveyor, labourers. People who worked hard, long hours and years who are now starting to get ahead. The passionate disgust and anger on display against Shorten and Bowen for wanting to take it away form them to give to others was a sight to behold. The penny has dropped. Labor isn't the Working Man and Woman's Party anymore.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx Yes, and we have seen all the socialist stuff all these socialist countries did - equal poverty for all and asunder. Yeah because those social democracies like Denmark, Sweden and Norway are full of poverty... They are NOT socialist countries! I said social democracies. Learn to read. And that right there is what is wrong with Socialism. Because it fails every single time, the socialists keep inventing new version of it. "THIS one THIS time will work. Trust us." And no comment that the Nords are in more debt than us? And they have a 20% GST, whereas ours is the second lowest in the OECD on par with Papua New Guinea. Labor's Left wants nice things for those that vote for them. But they also want someone else to pay for them.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx If Marx were alive today he would not recognize the Labor party of 2019. He would not be fooled one bit by the inner city middle class hipsters dressed in workers party drag. His likely advice would be "Get a real job and ditch the identity politics schtick" Lmao bruh you need to stop watching the Jordan Peterson videos and start living in the real world. You're a caricature. Hahaha brilliant insight. It's almost like he tries to hit as many of his main talking points or catchphrases every time he post. I don't know who Jordan Petersen is, but both you do. Says more about you and your insecurties than it does about me. So far all you two have is ad homs. Typical regressive leftists MO. Have a look at this: https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/labor-failed-to-understand-the-aspirational-voter-20190530-p51sqq.htmlLook at the photo: "Labor supporters at the election night function for Opposition Leader Bill Shorten in Melbourne"
That photo is your typical modern labor voter group. Look at THEM. Especially the one in the glasses.
As enjoyable as it is to see the crushed and bewildered look on their faces, that's not what I am talking about
Do THEY look like your traditional working class, dirty work clothes and high viz types? You know, the group that deserted Labor?
As long as Labor panders to the Chardonnay Socialists and the militant far left identity politic fringe groups it will right remain in the political wilderness. "I saw a fat woman wearing glasses in a photo and now I'm basing my political stance on it." That photo is GOLD. The caption should be: "Modern day Labor- SJW's dressed up in Workers Party Drag. BYO glass of Chardy"
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. 1. "Give tax cuts to the wealthy", You mean anyone who isn't a welfare recipient? Shortens Top end of Town. You do know that half the nations workers don't pay tax? So how can you give them a "tax cut"? 2. You don't understand how franking credits worked and you are exactly the person Shorten sought to exploit because of your financial illeteracy on the subject. You swallowed his lies and misinformation that it was a GIFT. Thats how politics of envy and division work.
3. Ah the Shorten and Bowen mantra : This will only affect a small number of people... who will not vote for us anyway Labor had zero plans to grow the pie. I'll Take of off THEM and Ill give it to YOU if you vote for me. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution. 1. No I mean corporations and people in the top income tax bracket. Labor also had income tax cuts in its election promises but were more targeted. 2. :laugh: You got me /s. Giving someone money when they paid no income tax when the rest of us can only use franking credits to reduce our tax liability to zero is not a GIFT. The Liberals, apart from tax cuts had no plans AT ALL. 2. :laugh: Clearly you have NFI what franking credits are, who's money the dividend is, what company tax is, what the purpose of the 30% tax company tax rate is, what the tax free threshold is, and how all that interacts with the tax free nature of super in the draw down phase- which ultimately is who Shorten was attacking, specifically those who were self-funded. The very people that Keating wanted to have more of when he devised Australia's super scheme. FYI a company is a separate legal entity that pays tax on profits that remain within the company structure for example to use to fund things for company use like R and D, plant and equipment, expansion of the business. Profits that are distributed as dividends to the legal owners of the company the shareholders are taxed initially at 30% but this is a type of witholding tax because it is impossible for the company to know what each shareholders marginal tax rate will be. If it turns the marginal rate is more than the tax already paid, the shareholder pays an *additional* amount. If the marginal rate is less, they get a refund of the difference. If the marghinal rate is zero, no tax was due and they get it all back. So here it is in black and white straight from Treasury: "Company income tax has two basic roles: as a withholding tax on" income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company; http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_8-03.htm Consequently the ATO "attributes" the company tax to the shareholders: https://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publications/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=4
The shareholders declare the full pre-company tax dividend as their income on their tax return. That's because it is THEIR money, not the company's and THEY not the company are liable to pay tax.
Australian shareholders are private citizens and they pay tax as per the PAYG tax scales: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ These tax scales include a tax free threshold. Any income under that threshold attracts no tax. This includes "income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company". Some of these people are self=funded retirees with money outside of super investing for something better than the 2% bank deposit returns.
Shorten and Bowen wanted to make this group pay tax at 30%, higher than the vast majority of Australians.
So stop repeating the claim they received a "gift. They paid tax, when none was due. They are getting it back because none was due.
What Shorten and Labor hate is those who did the right thing and became self-funded in their old age. The politics of envy, division, under-pinned by lies and misinformation exploiting the financial ililteracy of people, like you for example.
"Don't like it, Don't vote for us".. Thanks for the advice Chris. We didn't. Enjoy the next 3 and likely 6 years in opposition. 12 years in all. Making it 23 out of the last 29 years. Yay Labor.
Great post! Regrettably, you are correct in that not many actually understand the tax system which is why a Shorten win would have been devastating for fairness, because self funded retirees would be slugged even if they were at the bottom tier. It's a withholding tax and retiree share holders only pay in accordance with their tax bracket and that is dependent on what they earn. You can't for instance charge the rich ones an *additional* amount if they are wealthy and are in the top tax bracket if low income retirees can't claim the 30% back if they are on the bottom tiers. Most people are just too dumb to understand. And you know the kicker in all this? They blame Howard but it had bipartisan support with a Beazley Opposition MP of the day saying We support this policy because it is OUR policy.." More lies and misinformation and re-writing of history by Australia's Regressive Left.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xOne day they're removing tax concessions for the wealthy, the next they're dragging your family to the gulags. Wake up sheeple!!! Like a frog being boiled, The Regressive Left's supporters have no idea of whats happening around them. Anyone who has also read George Orwell's 1984 ( and Animal Farm) would immediately recognize the same Regressive Lefts tactics in operation today Chief among them is the changing of the meanings of words to mean the opposite of what they mean. Take the word "Gift" as used by Labor to describe Imputation credits. According to Labor and its voters, a Gift is when you get back your own money the government wasn't ever entitled to. Similarly, a tax deduction or concession is "Welfare for the Rich". Apparently keeping more of your own money is "Welfare" and you are The Rich. The Rich aka The Top End of Town is anyone else not on welfare. And so on.. The Regressive Left is a Totalitarian movement. built on dividing the people. They have no middle ground. "Don't like it? Don't vote for us" said it all really.
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433
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Aikhme's post patterns always amuse me
> Gets totally blown the fuck out and exposed as either being a troll or sub 80IQ mongoloid
> Abandons thread for a few pages until everyone forgets about his embarrassing posts (In the past week alone, we had him not being able to read the axis on a graph, being unable to open an excel file and also believing that the RBA has control over the FX rate)
> Hop in with an asinine "hurr socialism bad" comment
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mcjules
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:laugh:
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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LFC.
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game set match Enzo.
Love Football
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx Yes, and we have seen all the socialist stuff all these socialist countries did - equal poverty for all and asunder. Yeah because those social democracies like Denmark, Sweden and Norway are full of poverty... They are NOT socialist countries! I said social democracies. Learn to read. Don't bother, he can read. It's deliberate trolling to elicit a response. I think you need to grow up.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx Yes, and we have seen all the socialist stuff all these socialist countries did - equal poverty for all and asunder. Yeah because those social democracies like Denmark, Sweden and Norway are full of poverty... They are NOT socialist countries! I said social democracies. Learn to read. What is your definition of social democracy? Australia isn't any less a social democracy because it ,literally offers universal health and pretty much a free education for all and it even has a deferral payment system for university students, plus Austudy or its equivalent and so on. Plus, Australia has a Super system that is the envy of the world. Australia isn't any less a social democracy under ScoMo. The only difference is that the LNP will offer it under a more sustainable fiscal policy and also not tax people to oblivion because there is a line between what is responsible and what is excessive.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx Yes, and we have seen all the socialist stuff all these socialist countries did - equal poverty for all and asunder. Yeah because those social democracies like Denmark, Sweden and Norway are full of poverty... They are NOT socialist countries! I said social democracies. Learn to read. Don't bother, he can read. It's deliberate trolling to elicit a response.
Member since 2008.
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sub007
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx Yes, and we have seen all the socialist stuff all these socialist countries did - equal poverty for all and asunder. Yeah because those social democracies like Denmark, Sweden and Norway are full of poverty... They are NOT socialist countries! I said social democracies. Learn to read.
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Muz
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx If Marx were alive today he would not recognize the Labor party of 2019. He would not be fooled one bit by the inner city middle class hipsters dressed in workers party drag. His likely advice would be "Get a real job and ditch the identity politics schtick" Lmao bruh you need to stop watching the Jordan Peterson videos and start living in the real world. You're a caricature. Hahaha brilliant insight. It's almost like he tries to hit as many of his main talking points or catchphrases every time he post. I don't know who Jordan Petersen is, but both you do. Says more about you and your insecurties than it does about me. So far all you two have is ad homs. Typical regressive leftists MO. Have a look at this: https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/labor-failed-to-understand-the-aspirational-voter-20190530-p51sqq.htmlLook at the photo: "Labor supporters at the election night function for Opposition Leader Bill Shorten in Melbourne"
That photo is your typical modern labor voter group. Look at THEM. Especially the one in the glasses.
As enjoyable as it is to see the crushed and bewildered look on their faces, that's not what I am talking about
Do THEY look like your traditional working class, dirty work clothes and high viz types? You know, the group that deserted Labor?
As long as Labor panders to the Chardonnay Socialists and the militant far left identity politic fringe groups it will right remain in the political wilderness. "I saw a fat woman wearing glasses in a photo and now I'm basing my political stance on it." Body shamer.
Member since 2008.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx If Marx were alive today he would not recognize the Labor party of 2019. He would not be fooled one bit by the inner city middle class hipsters dressed in workers party drag. His likely advice would be "Get a real job and ditch the identity politics schtick" Lmao bruh you need to stop watching the Jordan Peterson videos and start living in the real world. You're a caricature. Hahaha brilliant insight. It's almost like he tries to hit as many of his main talking points or catchphrases every time he post. I don't know who Jordan Petersen is, but both you do. Says more about you and your insecurties than it does about me. So far all you two have is ad homs. Typical regressive leftists MO. Have a look at this: https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/labor-failed-to-understand-the-aspirational-voter-20190530-p51sqq.htmlLook at the photo: "Labor supporters at the election night function for Opposition Leader Bill Shorten in Melbourne"
That photo is your typical modern labor voter group. Look at THEM. Especially the one in the glasses.
As enjoyable as it is to see the crushed and bewildered look on their faces, that's not what I am talking about
Do THEY look like your traditional working class, dirty work clothes and high viz types? You know, the group that deserted Labor?
As long as Labor panders to the Chardonnay Socialists and the militant far left identity politic fringe groups it will right remain in the political wilderness. That is the problem with the ALP. They have disenfranchised their very own base.
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mouflonrouge
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. 1. "Give tax cuts to the wealthy", You mean anyone who isn't a welfare recipient? Shortens Top end of Town. You do know that half the nations workers don't pay tax? So how can you give them a "tax cut"? 2. You don't understand how franking credits worked and you are exactly the person Shorten sought to exploit because of your financial illeteracy on the subject. You swallowed his lies and misinformation that it was a GIFT. Thats how politics of envy and division work.
3. Ah the Shorten and Bowen mantra : This will only affect a small number of people... who will not vote for us anyway Labor had zero plans to grow the pie. I'll Take of off THEM and Ill give it to YOU if you vote for me. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution. 1. No I mean corporations and people in the top income tax bracket. Labor also had income tax cuts in its election promises but were more targeted. 2. :laugh: You got me /s. Giving someone money when they paid no income tax when the rest of us can only use franking credits to reduce our tax liability to zero is not a GIFT. The Liberals, apart from tax cuts had no plans AT ALL. 2. :laugh: Clearly you have NFI what franking credits are, who's money the dividend is, what company tax is, what the purpose of the 30% tax company tax rate is, what the tax free threshold is, and how all that interacts with the tax free nature of super in the draw down phase- which ultimately is who Shorten was attacking, specifically those who were self-funded. The very people that Keating wanted to have more of when he devised Australia's super scheme. FYI a company is a separate legal entity that pays tax on profits that remain within the company structure for example to use to fund things for company use like R and D, plant and equipment, expansion of the business. Profits that are distributed as dividends to the legal owners of the company the shareholders are taxed initially at 30% but this is a type of witholding tax because it is impossible for the company to know what each shareholders marginal tax rate will be. If it turns the marginal rate is more than the tax already paid, the shareholder pays an *additional* amount. If the marginal rate is less, they get a refund of the difference. If the marghinal rate is zero, no tax was due and they get it all back. So here it is in black and white straight from Treasury: "Company income tax has two basic roles: as a withholding tax on" income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company; http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_8-03.htm Consequently the ATO "attributes" the company tax to the shareholders: https://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publications/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=4
The shareholders declare the full pre-company tax dividend as their income on their tax return. That's because it is THEIR money, not the company's and THEY not the company are liable to pay tax.
Australian shareholders are private citizens and they pay tax as per the PAYG tax scales: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ These tax scales include a tax free threshold. Any income under that threshold attracts no tax. This includes "income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company". Some of these people are self=funded retirees with money outside of super investing for something better than the 2% bank deposit returns.
Shorten and Bowen wanted to make this group pay tax at 30%, higher than the vast majority of Australians.
So stop repeating the claim they received a "gift. They paid tax, when none was due. They are getting it back because none was due.
What Shorten and Labor hate is those who did the right thing and became self-funded in their old age. The politics of envy, division, under-pinned by lies and misinformation exploiting the financial ililteracy of people, like you for example.
"Don't like it, Don't vote for us".. Thanks for the advice Chris. We didn't. Enjoy the next 3 and likely 6 years in opposition. 12 years in all. Making it 23 out of the last 29 years. Yay Labor.
Great post! Regrettably, you are correct in that not many actually understand the tax system which is why a Shorten win would have been devastating for fairness, because self funded retirees would be slugged even if they were at the bottom tier. It's a withholding tax and retiree share holders only pay in accordance with their tax bracket and that is dependent on what they earn. You can't for instance charge the rich ones an *additional* amount if they are wealthy and are in the top tax bracket if low income retirees can't claim the 30% back if they are on the bottom tiers. Most people are just too dumb to understand.
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mouflonrouge
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx Yes, and we have seen all the socialist stuff all these socialist countries did - equal poverty for all and asunder. Yeah because those social democracies like Denmark, Sweden and Norway are full of poverty... They are NOT socialist countries!
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paladisious
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Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 "Socialism is when the government does stuff, the more stuff it does, the more socialister it is" - Karl Marx If Marx were alive today he would not recognize the Labor party of 2019. He would not be fooled one bit by the inner city middle class hipsters dressed in workers party drag. His likely advice would be "Get a real job and ditch the identity politics schtick" Lmao bruh you need to stop watching the Jordan Peterson videos and start living in the real world. You're a caricature. Hahaha brilliant insight. It's almost like he tries to hit as many of his main talking points or catchphrases every time he post. I don't know who Jordan Petersen is, but both you do. Says more about you and your insecurties than it does about me. So far all you two have is ad homs. Typical regressive leftists MO. Have a look at this: https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/labor-failed-to-understand-the-aspirational-voter-20190530-p51sqq.htmlLook at the photo: "Labor supporters at the election night function for Opposition Leader Bill Shorten in Melbourne"
That photo is your typical modern labor voter group. Look at THEM. Especially the one in the glasses.
As enjoyable as it is to see the crushed and bewildered look on their faces, that's not what I am talking about
Do THEY look like your traditional working class, dirty work clothes and high viz types? You know, the group that deserted Labor?
As long as Labor panders to the Chardonnay Socialists and the militant far left identity politic fringe groups it will right remain in the political wilderness. "I saw a fat woman wearing glasses in a photo and now I'm basing my political stance on it."
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433
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One day they're removing tax concessions for the wealthy, the next they're dragging your family to the gulags. Wake up sheeple!!!
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x[quote]Replace Fox News with Sky News & Murdoch Papers and you've pretty much got Australia And this is why their side continues to lose. Yet they lack the self-awareness to realise that the reason for this stares at them in the face every time they look in the mirror, so instead they think that by doubling down on name-calling and trying to shut down opposing views as "hate speech", that they can win the war of ideas. I won't lose a wink of sleep if they spend the next 50 years making the same mistakes. The biggest irony will be seeing the kids of today growing up to adopt more conservative/ right-leaning ideologies to rebel against their parents... That couldn’t be more wrong. As a young adult, I can assure you that kids these days are Overwhelming progressive. I literally only know one young adult who is conservative. Hence why I said growing up. A majority of those growing up are progressive. Once you start working and paying Bills, you start living the real world. I contest this as someone aspiring to own an investment property soon and "lives in the real world" (as the bills in my mailbox will attest) in the over $90k earning bracket that would objectively be financially better off under the Libs (not that they'll get their policies through by the financial new year because they put the election so far back) but my vote went with my ideals, not my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one who put their personal financial interests ahead of their ideals when casting their vote. After all, I'm sure not everyone who voted or preferenced the Libs own a coal mNot eveine or media empire lol Its simplistic and arrogant thinking like this that cost Labor the election. As if your own "ideals" are in any way "superior" or more virtuous to anybody else's ideals who didn't vote Labor Shorten and Bowen were the two most divisive political figures in living memory. Theirs would not have been a government that unites but a government that divides: young against old, low income earner against middle income earner, home owner against renter, pensioner against self-funded retiree, employer against worker. Voters rejected the virtue signalling of the Left, the hypocrisy of their intolerance to any contrary voice, the relentless attack on free speech, their social engineering, their attack on aspiration, their politics of envy and class division. the shameless lies and misinformation by Shorten and Bowen that sought to exploit the financial illiteracy of the general populous, and the demonizing of those who pay the vast bulk of everything as the Top End of Town. Offering no middle ground because they "had a moral mandate" theirs would have been a government that sought to fuck over anyone who stood in their way Australia dodged a bullet. I don't think Pala is suggesting people voting for their ideals is wrong. It's completely reasonable. Of course he thinks his ideals are superior and virtuous otherwise why would he have them over others in this "marketplace of ideas"? You're pretty naive if you think the LNP aren't dividing the community. They're actually the ones putting in policies in place to go after welfare recipients, attack worker rights and give tax cuts to the wealthy. I'll agree that some middle ground on franking credits policy might have helped them with self-funded retirees. These people are getting a benefit they really should never have gotten but the voting bloc is too big. It's a pity that some pretty modest reforms that wouldn't have affected a small number of people for the benefit of many is considered ambitious and can be attacked so easily. 1. "Give tax cuts to the wealthy", You mean anyone who isn't a welfare recipient? Shortens Top end of Town. You do know that half the nations workers don't pay tax? So how can you give them a "tax cut"? 2. You don't understand how franking credits worked and you are exactly the person Shorten sought to exploit because of your financial illeteracy on the subject. You swallowed his lies and misinformation that it was a GIFT. Thats how politics of envy and division work.
3. Ah the Shorten and Bowen mantra : This will only affect a small number of people... who will not vote for us anyway Labor had zero plans to grow the pie. I'll Take of off THEM and Ill give it to YOU if you vote for me. People told Shorten where to go with his communist re-distribution. 1. No I mean corporations and people in the top income tax bracket. Labor also had income tax cuts in its election promises but were more targeted. 2. :laugh: You got me /s. Giving someone money when they paid no income tax when the rest of us can only use franking credits to reduce our tax liability to zero is not a GIFT. The Liberals, apart from tax cuts had no plans AT ALL. 2. :laugh: Clearly you have NFI what franking credits are, who's money the dividend is, what company tax is, what the purpose of the 30% tax company tax rate is, what the tax free threshold is, and how all that interacts with the tax free nature of super in the draw down phase- which ultimately is who Shorten was attacking, specifically those who were self-funded. The very people that Keating wanted to have more of when he devised Australia's super scheme. FYI a company is a separate legal entity that pays tax on profits that remain within the company structure for example to use to fund things for company use like R and D, plant and equipment, expansion of the business. Profits that are distributed as dividends to the legal owners of the company the shareholders are taxed initially at 30% but this is a type of witholding tax because it is impossible for the company to know what each shareholders marginal tax rate will be. If it turns the marginal rate is more than the tax already paid, the shareholder pays an *additional* amount. If the marginal rate is less, they get a refund of the difference. If the marghinal rate is zero, no tax was due and they get it all back. So here it is in black and white straight from Treasury: "Company income tax has two basic roles: as a withholding tax on" income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company; http://taxreview.treasury.gov.au/content/Paper.aspx?doc=html/publications/papers/report/section_8-03.htm Consequently the ATO "attributes" the company tax to the shareholders: https://www.ato.gov.au/Print-publications/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=4
The shareholders declare the full pre-company tax dividend as their income on their tax return. That's because it is THEIR money, not the company's and THEY not the company are liable to pay tax.
Australian shareholders are private citizens and they pay tax as per the PAYG tax scales: https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individual-income-tax-rates/ These tax scales include a tax free threshold. Any income under that threshold attracts no tax. This includes "income earned by Australian residents, through shares in a resident (Australian) company". Some of these people are self=funded retirees with money outside of super investing for something better than the 2% bank deposit returns.
Shorten and Bowen wanted to make this group pay tax at 30%, higher than the vast majority of Australians.
So stop repeating the claim they received a "gift. They paid tax, when none was due. They are getting it back because none was due.
What Shorten and Labor hate is those who did the right thing and became self-funded in their old age. The politics of envy, division, under-pinned by lies and misinformation exploiting the financial ililteracy of people, like you for example.
"Don't like it, Don't vote for us".. Thanks for the advice Chris. We didn't. Enjoy the next 3 and likely 6 years in opposition. 12 years in all. Making it 23 out of the last 29 years. Yay Labor. All you've done is use the definition as it currently is (thanks to the gift that Howard gave to a significant voting block. Yay for profligacy) rather than how it was intended to be. LOL. You literally have no idea. The intent of imputation is to avoid "Double taxation" . "Double taxation" doesn't mean being taxed twice. It means being *assessed* under two different tax *systems*. Yes you would know Australia has two tax systems. Corporate and personal. The corporate system taxes every dollar of profit. The personal system is progressive- it starts with a zero tax rate aka the tax free threshold currently at $18200. Dividends belong to the shareholders not the company and are ultimately assessed at the personal tax system rates, that is why the entire unfranked dividend is declared by the shareholder as income and tax due is first calculated at the marginal rate. Any tax ie franking credits already in the ATO's hands are credited against the personal tax due. If the shareholder marginal rate is zero, then no tax was due, and the franking credits are refunded. What Bowen wanted to do was continue that for pensioners but not for self funded retires. So a group that lives off the public teat gets it, and the group who pays their own way doesn't. That is the very definition of unfair and strikes at the heart of how the tax system should operate, That's how socialists operate- they define "fair" and fuck anyone else who disagrees. Possibly a stretch there. -PB Nope. That's exactly how it works. Until one day their idea of "fairness" comes to take you and your family property. For the common good, of course.
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