I just watched Simon Birmingham on the ABC rabbit on about respecting freedom of religious beliefs in reply as to whether a religious school should be able to sack a teacher for being gay.

I wonder how far respecting of religious beliefs go?  Is female genial mutilation OK because its part of the belief system of some religions?

Perhaps Rob or Rusty could enlighten me.

Seriously you make me laugh, why doesn't God stop it lol fuck me dead if you know nothing about religion then I suggest you don't comment on it. 
Clearly from your pathetic posts where you don't even understand what judgment day in Christianity is about.
You simply hate religion, regardless of which group. Yet you can't even admit even behind a computer that you hate religion, and if you had the power to rule the world, then 100% you would close down all churches and ban the teaching of Christianity. 
Only because you're a nice peaceful loving guy who respects everyone regardless of their beliefs and only acts in this way because you're accepting of everyone. 
Anyways as I said no point with you, because you simply go off topic and can't even understand how it's not a big deal for religious schools to basically be just that, and stick to what they believe in. 
If you had any respect you'd understand that if you're gay there's a shit load of schools you can teach in, and if your child is gay then again there's a shit load of schools for them to attend, and on top of that with half a fucking brain you wouldn't even want to send your kid to a religious school, so with that in mind your opinion is crystal clear. You don't agree with religion, you also hate everything to do with it, and what's worse is you don't want others to have the opportunity to believe in their religion the way they should, because Mr Smart knows better. 

(1) I'm not discriminating, he can believe whatever he likes. I do believe religion is form of brainwashing, built off the fear of death and the unknown, providing security and established group/cultural meaning. It's a very powerful phenomenon. Just to argue that someone is wrong is not not to imply superiority, it's to imply clarity and consistency. 

(2) If you consider that discrimination, then you're made of glass. I do not want to impose restrictions on others on how to think, I want people to realise they can't justify imposing restrictions on others on the basis of disproven, religious fallacies. 

(2) What a convenient way to worm yourself out of the argument. How did I go off-topic? Please at least try to play the argument

(3) If God is the supposed judge, jury and moral standard then why doesn't he act against child molestation? Clearly if he's God and if he's just, he would do something. Yet nothing happens. That implies that a) he's complicit, b) doesn't give a shit or c) doesn't exist. It doesn't matter if your church doesn't permit it (kudos to them, a real moral leap to be sure). The problem is that it still occurs, without divine intervention; if ever there were a time it would be then. 

It really sounds like Marconi101 is discriminating against robstazzz because of his religious beliefs. Like Marconi101 is the one full of wisdom and knowledge and Robstazzz is some archaic trogladyte imbecile who has been totally brainwashed, and Marconi101 is the sage who will show Robstazz the error his ways and guide him to the truth.

I consider this a form of intellectual discrimination, where one supposes they are intellectually better than the other, and want to impose restrictions on how someone can make decisions because their stupidity is so dibiltitating they think they are actually doing them , and society a favour.

1. Like I said I called people like you wannabe dictator, so again that doesn't mean I'm saying you're as evil as one you mention. 
2. I won't even bother replying to that shit post because you went off topic, and it doesn't deserve a reply. 
3. God doesn't permit child molestation you clown, you don't blame God for the actions of humans who again preach under a certain denomination of Christianity. My church doesn't permit it, so therefore it is wrong to claim God permits it. 
4. Homophobia means I hate gay people. It doesn't mean me not wanting rules changed where churches have to accept homosexuality,  that's a choice I have. Again you're dictating what's right and wrong.
5. You're 100% right here, it is the schools loss, so like I said before don't cry about discrimination, shut the fuck up, and don't pretend you're interested in sending your kid there, or teaching there. Truth is you have no intention and neither do others who cry discrimination. All they want to do like you is dictate, yet not admit it. 
6. I think for myself and come to this conclusion myself, but obviously you wouldn't believe me in saying that because you'll assume I'm brainwashed into thinking this way, yet for you it's perfectly normal to have your opinion.  

This is mouth-breathingly stupid. You're either a troll or a fanatic based off this. 

(1) Yes I know you didn't explicitly mention Stalin. I merely used his name as an example given he is the best example of a successful dictator and to counterpoint the implication that I'm somehow relatable to a Georgian mass-murdering Marxist for defending the rights of homosexuals. You say "Yeh you could be worse then those you mention who knows" - implying I'm somehow capable or willing to create a proletarian dictatorship under the leadership of an elite (Stalinist-Bolshevism) or be willing or capable to genocide an entire civilization in the name of God and plunder (Cortes), simply because a) you don't know me and, b) I disagree with you on something. 

(2) I have done my research. I know people who have been abused by elderly, backed up, creepy men who received no punishment, either secular or divine for the heinous crimes they committed. You say "I should be careful". Why? Is God going to smite me for criticizing child molestation? If God is God, he could very easily just do something publicly and justly to priests who, under his name and authority, rape children. But he doesn't. You're right about it not being just the Catholic Church, it's endemic in Islam and Judaism. Look up how Afghan men 'rear' young Afghan boys, and how American soldiers were discharged after shooting them for their bastardry. How in Islam girls are genitally mutilated and sold off before puberty to be raped and sodomized by disgusting 'men'. Look up also the actual practice of circumcision in Judaism. How babies are mutilated and tortured by the very mouths of Jewish priests. All to please, unsurprisingly, a male God obsessed with sex and genitalia. 

(3) Fair enough if your church/school hasn't been caught up in the scandal. Regardless, all three monotheisms worship the same God, so if child molestation is rife and covered up in the Catholic Church of Christianity, then clearly by association the other religions are implicated by worshiping the same God that apparently permits such crimes. Or does it not count if you change the language you worship in? How convenient. 

(4) Implying that a homosexual teacher will teach nothing but homosexuality? "Righto kids, after we've covered Pythagoras' Theorem I'm gonna go over the benefits of anal sex and MDMA!" Your homophobia is obvious. Honest question: why do you believe homosexuality is wrong? If it's wrong in the eyes of the Lord then why is it endemic in the mammalian kingdom? You'd think he would have curbed that out, like cancer or psychopathy but I guess he got tired. 

(5) That sounds rather dictatorial of you. What if the student was intellectually gifted and would raise the prestige of the school via grants, etc? What if the teacher was excessively qualified and could teach at an incredibly high level? You're possibly denying your school quality simply because you can't handle what someone else does with their genitalia. 

(6) I don't want to force you to do anything. I just want you to think non-ideologically. Did your opinions come to you naturally or were they ingrained through your environment into your psyche (ie. is your opinion arrived at via free will or is it externally determined?) I'd like for you to see the error in your logic, if that's dictatorial then you are simply ideologically defensive to the point of absurdity. 

As I said pathetic lol. Dictating to the world what is right and wrong according to your own views. Yeh man, that's acceptable lol

The only pathetic things I'm seeing here are people attempting to justify discrimination under the guise of "freedom"

What a pathetic post lol

Sums up nicely the sick fucks of the left despite their love is love bullshit.  

Imagine trying to justify discrimination against a segment of society on the basis of a few bronze-age allegories, then claiming that your rights are being oppressed when someone points out how ridiculous it is.

"waaaaah why can't I discriminate against gay people anymore, what about my freedom?" 

😂😂😂

Why stop at schools? Why not target churches as well, the ultimate breeding grounds of discrimination, hate and homophobia. They are after all situated on CROWN land and receive tax exempt status, therefore the state has some claim to ownership over them right? Youre not gonna get rid of discrimination, hate and homophobia until you get rid of religion altogether, so might as well ban god and supersition period. If people rebel and continue to sew seeds of discrimination, hate and homophobia, then it is in societies interests, inparticular vulnerable minorities, to jail or execute those who disobey the state. All churches, synogogues and mosques must be burnt to the ground to ensure that there is no reminder of the previous anachronstic society that was once consumed with discrimination, hate and homophobia.

This is the only way to ensure discrimination is defeated.

Yeh you could be worse then those you mention who knows, you don't have the power to do what they did so I can't judge I don't know you, but I just said a dictator, that doesn't have to be the worst example of one like you mentioned. So yeh I am careful in what I say because if you read what I wrote again there's no mention of you being like Stalin. Not every dictator is equal to Stalin believe it or not. 
As for protecting child rapist, how about you be careful what you say and do your research. That's the Roman Catholic church involved in that crap, who clearly don't represent every single religion and God.
Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe in God in their own way and all 3 have their own private schools which is what we're talking about here. So no the church I go to and the religion I believe in isn't Roman Catholic and has never had such cases involved with child molestation, so I think you need to be careful what you write when using the Roman Catholic church's actions in regards to child sex claims against every single religion. 
The school I send my kids to has the right to reject a teacher that will teach my kids what I believe in is wrong. 
It's as simple as that. You don't like it? Teach elsewhere. You don't like it? Send your kids to another school. 
Force to change it, well clearly that means you like to dictate what others should and shouldn't believe in, don't even try to deny the obvious and just admit it.

Yes, you're right, I want religious institutions to not discriminate against gay people because I'm a 'selfish wannabe dictator'. I'm right up there with Stalin and Cortes. Think before you write

Yes, religious types are free to criticize whatever they deem incompatible with their magic-man-in-the-sky bedtime story, but to openly discriminate in the name of a doctrine that does nothing but protect child rapists? Please, spare me the 'woe is me, I can't openly hate gays' bullshit. All it is is homophobia cloaked under cultural conservatism and legitimated by neo-conservative ideology that claims that any opposing views on religion or its practices somehow represents society's regression. If it was such a pressing human issue, why doesn't God just sort it out? Oh wait, it'll be fought by those pious schizophrenics who think they have the creator of the universe inside their heads. And they claim homosexuality is a sign of illness. 

The way I see it is like this. If you're a parent who supports the ideas of LGBT and have a child who is either gay or lesbian, and you want to send them to a school you know doesn't accept them, then clearly you're not fit enough to be a parent. The docs need to be called on such stupid examples of parents who fail to understand there's a huge amount of schools to pick from, instead of trying to force the one which didn't share your values in life to accept your child. 
We live in a soft cock whinging society where people just love to tell others what to do, and can't wait to sue people.
If a shop won't make you a cake supporting a gay marriage, walk out and go to one that will do it and tell family and friends. Word of mouth is one of the most effective form of advertising. 
If a school doesn't accept gay students, then take them to one of the many schools that does accept them and again tell family and friends so they know from the start.
It really is that bloody simple, but the problem as I say is you have these selfish dictator wannabes who claim to be so nice and accepting of everyone in society, when infact they are nothing but two faced, selfish, arrogant people who clearly only care about their opinion, and forcing it into others.

So we can be clear Marconi, are you ok with a Muslim school being forced by the state to allow a gay Jewish kid into the school simply because thats where his parents want him to go? What about a boy who wants to attend an all girl school? Should he be denied the right to choose his own educational pathway on the basis of his genitals? Private schools are just that, private, the land is private, the funding is private (mostly) and its the discretion of those who own and fund the school who gets to enter its gates. They are entitled to select and discriminate against anyone they want, as far as im concerned, even based on race, sexuality, culture, gender, intelligence, socio economic status, athletic ability and religion. There are schools for example that are girls only, Muslim only, indigenous only, I support these schools rights to select staff and students who are harmonoius with the schools values and principles. Its up to the state not to interfere and meddle in private matters, but ensure there are educational pathways for all students, through either the state system, and facilitating private schools that are accepting differences.

Like i said if you want to make the case for defunding private schools go right ahead, but its wrong to force people even those who you perceive to be bigoted, to do things that goes against their moral conscience.

That's like saying Rosa Parkes should have just walked to work because riding the bus in segregated section would have been not worth the discomfort. She saw idiotic discrimination, fought against it, and exposed its weakness. Gay people should do the same and show the religious establishment they're just as capable of being human and/or religious as the pious (not that it's hard). Has any of the religious leaders in this debate read Jesus Christ? Or do they just follow the doctrines of the child-rapist protectors the Catholic Church? 

I agree re: church and state, they should stay out of each other's way. However, these 'independent' religious schools are provided with state funds (see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-30/school-funding-explained-without-mentioning-gonski/8555276).

The legalization of same-sex marriage was passed definitively and democratically and homosexuality/lesbianism is a common thing to come across (in multiple mammalian species btw, God really stuffed up there). Yet these state-assisted private/religious schools still have the temerity to discriminate against gay teachers and students simply because of their sexual orientation. They don't refuse them because of their quality of experience, quality of intelligence or possible criminal records or intellectual disabilities - simply because they bat for the other team. You say they have "discretion" to accept who does or doesn't "conform with their doctrine", when they're financed in part by a taxed society that clearly disagrees with their doctrine. How is 'forcing' a private/religious school into accepting completely normal human beings with different sexual orientations a form of 'state oppression and abuse of human rights'? They're denying people the right to an education or an employment that is, by virtue of the funding these schools have access to, better than a state education. Is that not a violation of human rights and a form of oppression? Or does it not count because they're gay and it makes god-botherers uncomfortable?

I've always liked how religious people can scream in the name of freedom whatever idiocy they desire, but when they are just slightly challenged by logical, scientific or humanist information they immediately scream persecution. Nothing gets a Christian harder than a persecution complex (Unless you're a priest, then a child is more effective)

As a side-note: I am completely against government/state funding to private/religious/'independent' schools. If there were no public funding given to them, I would still be repulsed and amused by their homophobia but would have to accept that it's their independent right to Fear and Loath as much as conveniently possible. 

Probably

I dont remember Clinton being called a sexual predator and gang rapist despite no evidence to support the allegation.  Kav was completely innocent, the allegation was just absurd and the vitriol poured over him because he once might have thrown ice and likes drinking beer was well beyond the pale.  This was a coordinated campaign not just by the dems, by involving the CNN, ABA , and academia to prevent a conservative from ascending to the supreme court.

On the other hand Clinton abused his power to glean headjobs from young interns and then lied to the American public about it.

Isn't that what a world politics thread is for though?

-PB

Bill Clinton went through far worse when Kenneth Starr went after him just because he got a headjob from an intern.  Made Kavanaugh's recent little outing look like a  garden tea party. 

Now that we are all buddies can we agree that Kavanaugh was treated despicably and that Trump isn't anywhere near as bad as the media makes out?

Gotta fight fire with fire

Agree with this. I am not religious (well not aligned with any of the major denominations) but I agree that religious institutes should be allowed to determine entrants according to their beliefs (which is pretty much what current laws in Australia do allow, inc. anti-discrimination laws and marriage laws).

Similarly any openly homosexual student I would imagine wouldn't want to attend a religious school (at least not one that condemns them). Similar to a teacher ... I personally couldn't work for an organisation that is against my morals / values (20 to 30 year olds in the workplace are even more likely to choose an employer based on their ethos according to most research I have seen of late too).

Have to second that :)

Jesus Russ why can't you posit all your arguments in this manner?

This is a reasoned, well thought out, coherent and not at all abusive post.  RUOK?

Religious freedom isn't just about buildings and tax exemptions, its about allowing religious people and organisations freely practice  their faith without state interference.  That is the essence of church and state, they stay out of each others way.  That includes allowing churches and schools to exercise discretion who they can and cant accept and who does and who doesn't conform with their doctrine.  If you force the church to do things against its conscience, not only is it a violation of church state separation, its a form of state oppression and abuse of human rights.  It would like forcing Muslim schools to accept gay Jewish students,  it would be highly antagonistic to that community and disparaging of their beliefs and religious rights.  If you want to argue for reduction of public funding for schools based on their discrimination of gays, that's a separate argument.

Also unsure what you would want to send your gay kid to a religious school that sees the way they are as sinful, it would be massively detrimental to that kids self esteem and development.  There are plenty of gay friendly schools, including religious ones.