:lol: At all of Finkys logical fallacies

There is no delay, this has already been established. I don't know why you insist on referring to the process that has a clear and transparent timeline as a delay. Are you using facetious emotive language because it suits your ideology, or are you genuinely confused about the process?

Also, if the ALP were planning for succession before the election you would be accusing them of defeatism and desperation. Seems like there is nothing they could do to make you happy under any circumstances.

Has he stopped the boats yet?

Less media releases, less access to information on asylum seekers, less women in Cabinet, less of a budgetary a crisis than we were repeatedly told....oh and Parliament is yet to sit...and it has only been a month since the election....I thought we were in crisis?


Oh and the boats are still coming....

Heralded as a statesman by News Corp and News Corp alone. The rest of the world is still shaking it's head.

But what about all the emergencies? What about 'adult government'. Surely 'adult government' means recalling parliament to deal with the boats, budget, nbn, and all the other big emergencies that Abbott and co talked about during the election?

PS:


Edited by macktheknife: 5/10/2013 03:44:56 PM

Abbott isn't in opposition now. He's leading the country.

So what you're saying is that it's fine for him to lie and mislead Australia to gain power, and then do whatever he wants once there, ignoring what he said in the past?

You start name-calling and then when you get a taste of your own medicine you play the 'holier than thou' card. What the fuck?
I can take someone having a different opinion to me, if they can support that opinion with any kind of evidence. Evidence which you usually demand your opponent supply. What the fuck?
I don't have to try to discredit you, you do it all on your own. What the fuck?
And then of course your application of 'spastic' to pertain to autistism. What the fuck?

You call me a "tacky uneducated, uninformed Malicious troll" and then when I call you 'moronic' and 'arrogant' I'm the one using "derogatory and spiteful terms :cry:". Look champ, if you can't take it how about you don't dish it out instead of being a self-righteous wanker. You call me ignorant but that's just pot and kettle because the reality is that your head is so far up your own arse you can lick your tonsils.

You accept lying as political gameship, and not only that you herald the chief liar as a Statesman?

What about he simply tells us the truth, do we deserve any less?

And my point about Parliament is firstly it is easily recalled early, and secondly abbott hasn't done anything yet....yet he is a Statesman?

Edited by Joffa: 5/10/2013 04:18:58 PM

Political gamesmanship is not lying.

PM charts his course
Date
October 5, 2013

Mark Kenny
Chief political correspondent
View more articles from Mark Kenny

Tony Abbott's visit to Jakarta was an important statement. But was it tailored to his audience or a genuine shift in focus?
i.
An online report on Wednesday began as follows: ''China's President Xi Jinping is visiting the Australian capital Canberra, where cementing ties with south-east Asia's biggest economy will be top of his agenda''.

Actually, it didn't. In truth, the scrupulously accurate BBC report correctly nominated the ''Indonesian capital Jakarta'', not Canberra. Australia wasn't even contemplated.

But perhaps it should have been given that at No.13 on the league table of economies, it outpoints Indonesia by three places. For now, anyway.

Clearly, Australia is not regarded as part of south-east Asia. But if not south-east Asia, then where?

Advertisement
Is an economy defined by its language, its history, or its regional location, including its trading patterns and commercial integration? Self-evidently, cultural and economic heritage are dominant criteria, but why not consider its contemporary economic foundations, and even its future path?

It is well recognised that Australia's relative success through the global financial crisis owed much to its links with China and the region.

It is Australia's taxonomic dilemma - the intersection of our cultural antecedents as an English-speaking colony turned multicultural Western democracy, with our global address at the most south-east extreme of Asia.

Successive Australian governments have responded in various ways. The last one had its much trumpeted Asian Century white paper and, as Julia Gillard rightly noted this week, also signed an historic new partnership with China setting up annual meetings between the leaders of the two nations. Very few countries enjoy this status.

Relations with India were also set on a new positive path, thanks to some skilled and overdue diplomacy by Gillard.

Driving the process forward is the inexorable shift of power to the east marked by the rapid economic growth and commensurate strategic power of the Asian quadrant.

It means Australia's biggest disadvantage historically, the ''tyranny of distance'' as historian Geoffrey Blainey famously described it, is giving way to a new dynamic being referred to in enlightened business circles as ''the advantages of adjacency''.

More than any other, former Labor prime minister Paul Keating promoted this new mindset by arguing Australia's security, both economically and strategically, would properly be found ''in'' Asia rather than ''from'' it.

The two administrations following Keating - the four-term Howard Coalition government and the two-term Rudd-Gillard-Rudd Labor government - actively built relations with the fast-emerging China, but they built resistance as well, particularly through increased strategic integration with the US.

And they tended to let the Indonesian relationship look after itself.

Which it did. Sort of. Amid great anticipation, the Chinese-speaking Kevin Rudd visited Beijing in 2008 but only after dropping in on Washington, Brussels and London. He used the host's own tongue to upbraid Beijing on its human rights record in Tibet, among other things.

The following year he advised Washington, wary at Beijing's growing might, to be ready to use military force. As Fairfax Media reported in December 2010 from leaked diplomatic cables, Rudd took lunch with secretary of state Hillary Clinton, where he:

Described himself as ''a brutal realist on China'' and said Australian intelligence agencies closely watched its military expansion.

Said the goal must be to integrate China into the international community, ''while also preparing to deploy force if everything goes wrong''.

Characterised Chinese leaders as ''sub-rational and deeply emotional'' about Taiwan.

Said the planned build-up of Australia's navy was ''a response to China's growing ability to project force''.

Gillard's diplomatic breakthrough in April this year, securing special partnership status with China, was a mark of her rapidly acquired diplomatic skills, particularly after Australia's close association with Barack Obama's Pacific ''pivot'' speech - delivered in the Australian Parliament, no less. Many continue to see the pivot towards the new growth region of the 21st century as a thinly veiled China containment strategy.

Abbott, of course, has been in office less than a month but there are encouraging signs that he recognises the huge population bases and the rapid industrialisation in the region present more opportunities than threats.

The meeting between the Indonesian and Chinese presidents is a reminder of the huge dynamism in the region.

Officials had barely rolled up the red carpet following Abbott's ''official visit'' to Jakarta when they had to roll it out all over again for Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Xi's historic first visit to Jakarta is a very big deal and is expected to culminate in two-way trade contracts worth some $20 billion.

It is merely the start. Such enormous numbers will be the new normal in increasingly integrated dealings between the world's second-largest economy and the emerging giant of Indonesia, which is tipped to move past Australia within the decade on its way being the fourth-largest economy by 2050. These are the considerations informing the rhetoric and symbolism of Abbott's ''more Jakarta, less Geneva'' approach.

''Australia is Indonesia's obvious and natural partner in development,'' Abbott told a dinner held in his honour in Jakarta.

''Nowhere on earth would there be such an abundance of goodwill between two quite distinct countries … our challenge is to build on this goodwill in ways which deepen Australia's relationship with Asia and which accelerate Indonesia's rise.''

He heads back to the archipelago nation this week as it happens to attend the 2013 APEC meeting in Bali along with Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, US Secretary of State John Kerry, Xi Jinping, and New Zealand's John Key, with whom he has also met one on one as prime minister. The APEC meeting will be followed immediately by another international Asia region gathering, the 2013 East Asia Summit in Brunei.

Abbott described Australia's growing bond with Indonesia as ''our most important relationship'', even though, he conceded, it was not our most important strategic relationship, nor our most important economic relationship.

It was a big call but ANU Indonesia expert Andrew MacIntyre says it was the right call.

Despite all the noise about boat turnbacks and threats to sovereignty, Professor MacIntyre scored Abbott's mission to reinforce trade, cultural, and business integration as a success.

''Very few new prime ministers come into office being surefooted in foreign affairs. Abbott did very well,'' he said.

''It was a potentially difficult visit, and I think he did a good job of taking the sting, the tension out of it, and they've now got themselves back into a position where key officials can work quietly, and hopefully productively, towards making some progress on some of these issues.''

But the challenge now for Abbott is to stay the course and to show that his Indonesian focus was not merely a bit of convenient flattery designed to quell the boats anxiety in Jakarta.

It would be among the more unheralded manifestations of this year's change of government if Keating's hopes of a more distinctly Australian foreign policy stance were to find expression under an Abbott prime ministership.

While Abbott is unlikely to go as far as Keating's view that ''our strategic bread is entirely buttered in the Indonesian archipelago'', his elevation of the relationship holds out the possibility of a more defiantly Australian presentation to the region. And that might see a wider recognition of our geographic place in south-east Asia as well.

Mark Kenny is chief political correspondent.

Peter Hartcher is on assignment.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/pm-charts-his-course-20131004-2uzkf.html#ixzz2gpIXJpM7

Seems to me that RK's contention is that it's ok to lie if you're not in power but not ok to lie if you are.

Abbott Gathers Support to Scrap Carbon Pricing, Mining Tax

By David Stringer - Oct 5, 2013 1:12 PM ET

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott will get enough support from minor parties to pass legislation repealing the country’s carbon-price mechanism and mining-profits tax, the Australian newspaper reported.
To deliver election pledges to scrap the charges enacted by the previous Labor government, Abbott needs the support of at least six senators outside his Liberal-National coalition. Three legislators from the Palmer United Party and three others from minor parties will vote with the coalition to repeal the levies in Australia’s Senate, the paper reported today.
“We are a libertarian party, we’ll support any move to lower taxes,” Liberal Democratic Party Senator-elect David Leyonhjelm said by phone. Abbott should win backing to repeal the levies, Leyonhjelm said, adding he had not discussed voting intentions with other incoming senators.
Abbott’s Liberal-National coalition, which won a majority in Australia’s lower house in a Sept. 7 election, is set to hold 33 of the 76 seats in the upper house when the new Senate forms on July 1, according to the Australian Electoral Commission.
The new leader has pledged to dismantle Australia’s carbon pricing, which charges more than 300 of the country’s largest emitters, and instead spend A$2.9 billion ($2.7 billion) on incentives to curb emissions. A 30 percent tax on coal and iron ore profits, which Abbott is also seeking to remove, was forecast to raise A$4.4 billion in the four years to June 30, 2017, the Treasury said in August.
Mining Magnate
The Democratic Labour Party will support repeal, President Paul Funnell said by phone, after the Australian reported party Senator John Madigan would back the move. The Palmer United Party, formed six months ago by mining magnate Clive Palmer, is on course to win three seats and has previously said it will support Abbott’s plans.
Family First Senator-elect Bob Day, who told the Australian he’d vote in line with the Coalition, didn’t immediately respond to a phone call to his office seeking comment. Labor, on course for 26 senate spots, and the Greens, expected to secure nine seats, are unlikely to support Abbott’s plans.
“It’s not going to be easy as he thinks,” Greens leader Christine Milne said in an e-mailed statement. “With the Senate not even finalized, he’s going to be dealing with an unsteady, unstable and unreliable mix.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-05/abbott-gathers-support-to-scrap-carbon-pricing-mining-tax.html?

Tony Abbott repays travel costs for wedding in Wangaratta

JAMES CAMPBELL, MATT JOHNSTON HERALD SUN OCTOBER 06, 2013 12:00AM

EXCLUSIVE: PRIME Minister Tony Abbott charged taxpayers for his travel costs when he attended the wedding of a Liberal MP in Victoria.

Mr Abbott's office said he had repaid $1094 for a 2006 trip to Wangaratta for the wedding of recently defeated Liberal frontbencher Sophie Mirabella, after questions from the Sunday Herald Sun.

A spokesman for Mr Abbott said he had repaid the money after the Department of Finance had told him it could not guarantee he was entitled to it.

The revelation comes a week after Attorney-General George Brandis and Federal Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce agreed to repay money they had charged taxpayers to attend the 2011 wedding of Sydney radio broadcaster Michael Smith.

Ms Mirabella, then backbencher Sophie Panopoulos, married Lt-Col Greg Mirabella at Wangaratta's Anglican Cathedral in June 2006.

The military-themed wedding was attended by 250 guests including Mr Abbott, then health minister in the Howard government, and fellow MP Bronwyn Bishop, who is expected to become Speaker of the House of Representatives when the new Parliament sits later this month.

On Thursday the Sunday Herald Sun asked Mr Abbott and Ms Bishop if taxpayer funds had been used for them to attend the wedding.

Ms Bishop did not respond to questions but Mr Abbott's spokesman James Boyce confirmed yesterday the PM had "utilised entitlements".

"When the matter was brought to his attention, he immediately sought advice from the Department of Finance," he said.

Mrs Bishop did not respond to questions but Mr Abbott's spokesman James Boyce confirmed yesterday the PM had "utilised entitlements" for the trip.

"When the matter was brought to his attention, he immediately sought advice from the Department of Finance," he said.

"The advice received said it was not possible to determine if the travel was within entitlement.

"For the avoidance of any doubt, Mr Abbott has repaid all costs associated with this travel totalling $1,094.64 and the matter is resolved."

It is the second time Mr Abbott has repaid travel entitlements he had claimed from taxpayers.

In 2010 he repaid $9,400 he had claimed for a 2009 book-tour to promote his book Battlelines.

Mrs Mirabella was unseated as MP for Indi at last month's federal election by independent Cathy McGowan.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/tony-abbott-repays-travel-costs-for-wedding-in-wangaratta/story-e6frg6n6-1226733507793

I'm sure he would have been just as forthcoming if he hadn't been questioned by the newspaper

Edited by afromanGT: 6/10/2013 01:42:51 AM

Someone actually married Sophie Mirabella?

When you see the guy it makes a lot of sense.


What's more disturbing is that when I searched for "Sophie Mirabella Husband" in google images I got as far as the 'h' in 'husband' before it tried to autocrrect to 'hot'.

We need to have a serious talk, internet.

well mass suicide would be a good start.... (jokes)

well to be honest Matt there were quite a few of them unhappy with the changes made by KRUDD, many comments were made about the changes and that they could address them and make further changes...... not a real good process or look to be honest.....just point more and more to the ALP's problem of talk talk talk and no action......

yes princess is mad!!! what the fuck?
maybe it is that time of month? what the fuck?
more personal abuse! what the fuck?
what the fuck! what the fuck?
all behold the dolt Afro master of all and leader of intellect and wisdom.....

every post you make is attacking someone, if not me then it is someone else......go pull more cones and chill out dipshit.....;) ;) ;)

would expect more from you Joffa.......

the difference is the media are pissed off that they no longer have the government knee jerking....

what an absurd statement

True enough about knee jerking, I for one hope the Libs get it right, time will tell...for me I want to see substance and not hype.

If Abbott can become a statesman, well that would be fantastic and to our nations benefit, but to call him that after one month is frankly disingenuous .

Free Market. :lol:

Cut taxes?

Presumably as a 'proper' Libertarian his goals are to 'reduce Government' by abolishing the so called 'nanny state' in favour of what in Australia would become a capitalist free market, to reduce taxes as well as government welfare, while also increasing personal freedoms.

If he has any power he'll be interesting for Abbott to deal with, since the Libertarians will likely want left wing social change in exchange for their proposed changes that are in their right wing sphere of influence (reducing taxes isn't really on the left or right, but in this case, it's the right wing Liberals proposing it). Then again, they might simply rubber stamp anything that approaches their philosophy (like removing of mining and carbon tax) and then see what they can do in regards to the social stuff.

Once the opposition have a leader, they'll be in the media constantly just like negative tony was when he was in opposition and he'll be smoked out of his hiding hole.

But as usual they're too busy bickering and trying to make each other look bad in an internal power struggle instead of getting their shit together and making the LNP look bad.

Q+A: Interview with Julie Bishop

Published: 2:00PM Sunday October 06, 2013 Source: Q+A

Interviewed by Jessica Mutch.

SUSAN Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop spoke to Jess earlier this week during a visit with our Foreign Minister, Murray McCully. Jess began by asking her if Indonesia is Australia’s new best friend, where does NZ stand?

JULIE They are different relationships. The relationship with Indonesia has a geo-strategic element to it. Our relationship with NZ is one of very close partners in virtually every respect. There are few matters where Australia and NZ disagree, and when we do, we can sort out our differences. But Australia and NZ would both, I suggest, view Indonesia as an important regional player and increasingly an important global player, and its economy in pure GDP terms over time will dwarf Australia’s and NZ’s. So it’s an important trading partner, and geo-strategically, it’s a very important partner for us. So the relationships are different.

JESSICA I want to move on to the issue of boat people now, speaking of Indonesia and its importance. You’ve been in Indonesia, you’re heading there now. Will you need to do some mopping up there because of some of the comments around turning the boats back that the Prime Minister made?

JULIE The Prime Minister and President Yudhoyono, have just concluded a very successful series of meetings in Jakarta, and I believe that we have set the relationship in the right course to resolving the people-smuggling issue. Both Australia and Indonesia want to dismantle the people-smuggling trade that is operating in Indonesia and beyond. Both Australia and Indonesia want to stop the deaths at sea that are occurring in the waters between our two countries. And after our visit to Indonesia, I’m confident that we will be able to achieve that in close cooperation with Indonesia, because Indonesia acknowledge that not only is it a regional issue, as evidenced by the Bali Process, but also that more needs to be done bilaterally between Australia and Indonesia, and that’s what will happen.

JESSICA Have you also had to soften your stance on that as well, though?

JULIE It’s not a question of softening our stance. It’s a question of both sides recognising that we need to work together to dismantle the people-smuggling trade. We’ve seen now over 1000 people die at sea as a result of the revitalisation of the people-smuggling trade after 2008, and we are determined to do all we can to stop the boats coming to Australia in that way.

JESSICA In terms of us being able to live and work over there, we’re paying taxes, we’re raising children there, but we’re still only considered temporary citizens. Is that fair, do you think?

Advertisement

JULIE I think there are about 650,000 New Zealanders living in Australia, and New Zealanders have unparalleled access to Australia. No other country on Earth receives the same kind of access to Australia that New Zealanders do. They’re free to travel and live and study and work in Australia, and they also receive benefits and entitlements while they’re there. And we don’t provide that to any other country. So it’s a unique level of access provided only to New Zealanders.

JESSICA In contrast, though, for Australians who come and live in New Zealand, they’re automatically treated as permanent residents, and then after five years, they can apply for citizenship. Don’t you see that as a double standard?

JULIE-This was an agreement made between the Australian Government and the NZ Government some years ago, and we’ve seen the success of it because so many New Zealanders have come to live in Australia and work there and study.

JESSICAIs that the problem? Are there too many?

JULIEWell, it’s not a question of too many, but it should be put in relative terms - the number of Australians that are living in NZ compared with the number of New Zealanders living in Australia. But I believe that New Zealanders are very welcome. They take advantage of the opportunity to travel to Australia-

JESSICA-But they’re not made to feel welcome in terms of the rules and things that are set around them living there.

JULIE Well, they are obviously well aware of the rules, because before they come to Australia, I assume that they look into these things and see what entitlements they would have should they choose to live in Australia. So it’s not as if this is a secret. It’s publically available information, and I would encourage anybody who’s thinking of coming to Australia to determine in advance what the conditions are. But, no, New Zealanders are very welcome friends of ours, and we love having them over in Australia.

JESSICA So no changes under your government?

JULIEForeign Minister McCully did raise it with me in our meetings, but we think that the arrangement is pretty well set. And of course we’ll always listen to concerns that our friends in NZ raise with us.

JESSICA But it’s no at this stage?

JULIE We have no plans to change the arrangements.

JESSICA In terms of the UN Security Council, we’re obviously trying to get one of those temporary seats. Will you be supporting us in that bid?

JULIE Absolutely. We’re publically committed to supporting NZ in its bid for a Security Council seat.

JESSICA So we can count on your vote.

JULIE You can absolutely count on our vote, and if there are any lessons that we’ve learnt from our experience, we’ll be only too happy to pass them on to NZ. I know that Prime Minister Key and Foreign Minister McCully were doing a very good job advocating NZ’s interests at the UN Security Council recently and at the UN General Assembly Leaders Week in New York. So we hope that whatever support Australia can provide, we will do so, and we hope that NZ is successful.

JESSICA I’d like to move on to another matter now. You’re the only female in your cabinet at the moment. Is that embarrassing for you, though, being the only person at that top table?

JULIE I’ve been very used to being the only woman at a lot of top tables in my career, and it’s just a question of timing. I believe that over time, we will see many more women in the Liberal Party assume positions of leadership, as they have in the past. The Liberal Party has had a number of firsts when it comes to women in Parliamentary life.

JESSICA The brand ‘token woman’ has been mentioned in reference to you. How do you feel about that?

JULIE I think it’s unfortunate that women make such comments about other women. Because, of course, we all know that women who do reach leadership positions do it through hard work and dedication and determination. There’s no free ride for any woman to the top in Australia or New Zealand, I would suggest, and I think it’s just an unfortunate term. But anyone who knows me and knows my history and the careers and jobs that I’ve undertaken in the past would be quite mistaken to suggest that my life has been one of tokenism. I expect that as more women choose to enter federal politics, and in a country the size of Australia where Federal Parliament sits in Canberra for almost half the year, you really have to have a very organised personal life in order to become a federal politician. I come from Western Australia. It’s a significant journey to get to Canberra for sittings, and a lot of my time is spent travelling. I’m away from home much of the time, and so your personal circumstances have to be able to fit in with that life. And so not every woman can find it amenable to her personal circumstances. So we will see more women coming into Parliament over time, but at present, it is a juggling act.

JESSICA So you’re saying it’s harder for women because of all the responsibilities they’ve got at home, if you like.

JULIE Well, if you take into account the fact that Australian women are still the primary carers of not only children but often parents-

JESSICA Is that a bit old-fashioned, a comment like that?

JULIE No, it’s a fact. It’s a fact. I would be misleading you if I said that men in Australia were the primary carers of children and parents. They’re not. But it’s just a fact of life that if you want to enter federal politics, you often have to make choices and compromises that means that maybe you’re put off your ambition to go into federal politics until you’re children are at a stage where they don’t need mother at home all the time. Or when I say ‘at home’, in the state at which the children are. Please don’t assume that I’m suggesting women should stay at home. But I mean if you like in Western Australia, for example, it’s a four, five, six-hour flight to Canberra. You just don’t pop home for the night to see how the family is going.


http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/interview-julie-bishop-5600867?

Abbott seen getting support for pledges
BLOOMBERG
OCT 5, 2013

MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA – Prime Minister Tony Abbott will get enough support from minor parties to pass legislation repealing Australia’s carbon price mechanism and mining profits tax, The Australian newspaper reported Saturday.

To deliver election pledges to scrap the charges enacted by the previous Labor government, Abbott needs the support of at least six senators outside his Liberal-National coalition. Three legislators from the Palmer United Party and three more from minor parties will vote with Abbott’s coalition to repeal the levies in the Senate, the paper reported.

“We are a libertarian party, we’ll support any move to lower taxes,” Liberal Democratic Party Sen.-elect David Leyonhjelm said. Abbott should win backing to repeal the levies, Leyonhjelm said, adding he has not discussed voting intentions with other incoming senators.

Abbott’s coalition, which won a majority in Australia’s lower house in a Sept. 7 national election, will hold 33 of the 76 seats in the new Senate to be formed July 1, according to the Australian Electoral Commission.


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/10/05/asia-pacific/abbott-seen-getting-support-for-pledges/?#.UlDw7BEaySM

Yet if you're a New Zealand born child brought here by their parents you're ineligible for HECS or the NZ equivalent, essentially slipping through the cracks in the system and doomed to do menial work. Fortunately some of the banks have loans for such circumstances but why hasn't the government addressed this?

I'm not a Labor supporter (but prefer them over the Libs), but I suspect that they were expecting the Libs to have a bit of a honeymoon period which hasn't really eventuated.

I think the leadership process they're going through is good though and will benefit them in the long run.