I'm a bit split on the whole ISIS thing and how to handle it. On one hand I don't want to see innocent people being killed, to late they are already slaughtering innocent people on the other I don't believe we should be committing troops on the ground to try and solve the issue (as it was our intervention last time that created groups like ISIS). i don't think our intervention has CREATED this group, just made them rise to the surface.

Maybe we sit back and let the snake eat its tail and things just run their respective courses? At some point the world will be off the crude oil teat and then countries like Iraq will go back to being how they were 100-150 years ago (from a western point of view) but I guess in the meantime we just commit to surgical bombing. i don't think its about oil, i think its about religion?

Either way I'm sceptical. It's hard finding any decent information about a resistance to such a wave of evil (and that's without having the western media distorting it). Surely if people hated this incursion so much they would fight back, how is it that a hundred or so ISIS troops could roll into a city like Mosul and just take it over without resistance? um because they have fuck loads of weapons and an unending supply of ammunition funded by the saudis

Maybe people in Iraq want to live this way in a Caliphate under ISIS rule? Maybe they should be polling that? lol

Jokes aside, while I feel there is a need to do something, it is at least good to see the rhetoric this time round (from the US) change to be something of taking their time rather than rushing in Bush style (although that is probably because the US is still feeling the financial sting of things). While the beheading of a reporter is terrible, don't think it's worth committing to another 5+ years of war over.

-PB

And you misinterpreted everything you replied to lol.

-PB

Excuse my naiveté here, but who or what is ISIS, who/what do they stand for? How did they form? Who formed them? Who or what are they fighting for? Is it for land/oil/money etc

None of these questions have been answered yet?

The media just goes “oh ISIS is killing people” without giving us background information as to how it all started.

Observation – the world seems a bit quiet at moment, and it has a semi feel of half these ‘wars’ almost being made up, and the media need ‘something’ to cover to make everyone feel miserable….….make of that what you will.

Excuse my naiveté here, but who or what is ISIS, who/what do they stand for? How did they form? Who formed them? Who or what are they fighting for? Is it for land/oil/money etc

None of these questions have been answered yet?

The media just goes “oh ISIS is killing people” without giving us background information as to how it all started.

Observation – the world seems a bit quiet at moment, and it has a semi feel of half these ‘wars’ almost being made up, and the media need ‘something’ to cover to make everyone feel miserable….….make of that what you will.

Is there room under that rock that you live in? Could I hide a bit too?

ISIS are the Islamic state. A horde of bloodthirsty violent criminals made up of mostly foreign fundamentalist muslims who use the Koran as their justification for attempting to take over the middle east to create a whole Islamic state under their rule and under sharia law.

They are attempting first to remove the current regime. i.e Syrian and Iraqi government and military as well as religious minority groups like the Yazidi and Christians, again using the Koran as their justification.

They are like any other bloodthirsty horde in history though, in that they are spreading their fundamentalist political ideology by the sword, by raping and pillaging whole communities and thus causing others to surrender in fear. They kill the men, rape the women and indoctrinate the children.

They also cleverly use the media such as the beheading of James Foley ad pictures of kids holding up severed heads as an attempt to bait the West into conflict (which has worked). They are doing this as propaganda to entice other muslims to fight with them against the "oppressive west" by making the west look like the bad guys.

to late they are already slaughtering innocent people i don't think our intervention has CREATED this group, just made them rise to the surface.

i don't think its about oil, i think its about religion?

Are they actually killing/raping the people though (in a Ghenkis Khan way)?

From what they show of Mosul, people are just going about their daily lives (albeit under Sharia ways) and there is just an ISIS flag flying on the top buildings and so forth.

I think the the biggest win for ISIS compared to previous terrorist groups is the fact that they are more of an army rather than just little cells pulling off attacks. Not only that they are using the media very cleverly to spread the fear.

-PB

Are they actually killing/raping the people though (in a Ghenkis Khan way)?

From what they show of Mosul, people are just going about their daily lives (albeit under Sharia ways) and there is just an ISIS flag flying on the top buildings and so forth.

I think the the biggest win for ISIS compared to previous terrorist groups is the fact that they are more of an army rather than just little cells pulling off attacks. Not only that they are using the media very cleverly to spread the fear.

-PB

There's evidence that they're killing people (including children) that don't fit their ideology but you read every day stories about raping and beheadings that are difficult to verify. There's propaganda from both sides and I'm not going to pretend I know the truth. I'm pretty sure there is no "solution" though.

I don't want to compare them directly to the Taliban, but if we were to go in and "liberate" the areas ISIS have control of surely they'll adopt similar tactics to what the Taliban have done in Afghanistan? Likewise, if the world let them go and do their own thing they could become a place that's sympathetic to any religious nutters around the place that claim the west are oppressing them and start some sort of aggression (like terrorism).

On balance I think we're better off not getting involved.

Western Intervention in Iraq caused this shitstorm in the first place, how outrageous it is to suggest that doing that again might be an unwise risk of Australian lives! Invading Iraq again will mean committing to another conflict that is significantly more complicated than just ousting a ruling regime. It is the neighbouring nations of Iran, Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon that need to be taking more responsibility in stabilising the region.

At least using the armed forces to stop whaling is an action that protects Natural resources in Australian territory.

You can't blame the west for hundreds of years of sectarian hatred :lol:

For what it's worth I give zero fucks about the middle east but instead find the green position hilariously hypocritical.

Edited by benelsmore: 1/9/2014 12:13:41 PM

No, you find the straw man of the green position that you have constructed to be hilariously hypocritical.

I'd love to hear Milne give us her pearl of wisdom on how to address the issue.

I'd rather not. I can't stand that woman.

Thanks, but that sounds like an answer a Courier Mail journo would give us!

Can someone tell me what's really going on here?

I'd rather not. I can't stand that woman.

You can't blame the west for hundreds of years of sectarian hatred :lol:

For what it's worth I give zero fucks about the middle east but instead find the green position hilariously hypocritical.

Edited by benelsmore: 1/9/2014 12:13:41 PM

I'm a bit split on the whole ISIS thing and how to handle it. On one hand I don't want to see innocent people being killed, on the other I don't believe we should be committing troops on the ground to try and solve the issue (as it was our intervention last time that created groups like ISIS).

Maybe we sit back and let the snake eat its tail and things just run their respective courses? At some point the world will be off the crude oil teat and then countries like Iraq will go back to being how they were 100-150 years ago (from a western point of view) but I guess in the meantime we just commit to surgical bombing.

Either way I'm sceptical. It's hard finding any decent information about a resistance to such a wave of evil (and that's without having the western media distorting it). Surely if people hated this incursion so much they would fight back, how is it that a hundred or so ISIS troops could roll into a city like Mosul and just take it over without resistance?

Maybe people in Iraq want to live this way in a Caliphate under ISIS rule? Maybe they should be polling that?

Jokes aside, while I feel there is a need to do something, it is at least good to see the rhetoric this time round (from the US) change to be something of taking their time rather than rushing in Bush style (although that is probably because the US is still feeling the financial sting of things). While the beheading of a reporter is terrible, don't think it's worth committing to another 5+ years of war over.

-PB

in other words you have no idea

...and in other breaking news of this nature, its Monday

Well ofc I don't, I don't trust the western media and what they're reporting.

Isn't that ricecrackers 101? :lol:

-PB

Targeted bombings ahoy.

-PB

If Western powers don't do anything then IS will begin a genocide, overwhelm Iraqi forces and form a caliphate. This will absolutely insinuate tensions between Israel most likely lead towards a larger conflict (which is what these people want as it would signal the end of days and the coming of Paradise). This will then involve the US and most likely the EU and create a broad Middle Eastern conflict, that in my opinion would be far more devastating that the Vietnam War morally, financially and socially.

Or we could stem the tide of these psychopaths now and hit them before they gain the upper hand in Iraq, and then hopefully (finally) do something about Syria and its typical Muslim dictator

If Western powers don't do anything then IS will begin a genocide, overwhelm Iraqi forces and form a caliphate. This will absolutely insinuate tensions between Israel most likely lead towards a larger conflict (which is what these people want as it would signal the end of days and the coming of Paradise). This will then involve the US and most likely the EU and create a broad Middle Eastern conflict, that in my opinion would be far more devastating that the Vietnam War morally, financially and socially.

Or we could stem the tide of these psychopaths now and hit them before they gain the upper hand in Iraq, and then hopefully (finally) do something about Syria and its typical Muslim dictator