batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
mcjules wrote:batfink wrote:mcjules wrote:batfink wrote:mcjules wrote:[quote=RedKat][youtube]o63FGy3mPWI&list=UUVgO39Bk5sMo66-6o6Spn6Q[/youtube] While watching this, I started to wonder if one of the posters here might actually be Jackie Lambie :lol: On a serious note, can't decide if she's a good thing for parliament as she represents a portion (albeit a very ignorant) part of our society or a bad thing because she is very ill informed on most issues. :-k :shock: :shock: :shock: surely you jest???? tell me you are joking......LOL](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) Coming from you :lol: so piss weak..... The premise I was pondering is clearly beyond you so I thought I'd come down to your level ;)[/quote are you like 12 or 14???
|
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:Fourfiveone wrote:batfink wrote:notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:pretty sure the problem has been around since time and memorial and it hasn't sorted itself out so far And The West (tm) has never tried not intervening, so why not give it a go and see if we get a different result? batfink wrote:well Matt from you, who cries like sarah hanson young about a few asylum seeker being denied entry, that is a ripe statement, so you don't care if ISIS are slaughtering innocent people??? I do not, and I didn't say that I don't care about them, I'm just asking why you do. I've already shared my thoughts on what we should do in the Middle East and why we should leave The Islamic State alone. People disagree because they seem to think that doing the same thing over and over will breed a different result if you keep doing it. batfink wrote:My comment is based on 451 comments that violence is not that answer, and i agree that it is not the answer in 99% of cases, however if a thug starts bashing your family, what do you do, ask him to stop and wait for the police to arrive????? Irrelevant to Middle East violence, but you get violent in this situation because your family in your own home are in immediate threat of injury and death. So you agree that violence is not the answer in 99% of cases, and then use a 1% case to highlight your point? batfink wrote:in previous posts certain people are suggesting that these terrorists are only reacting to our interference in their country and we are just creating the problem, to which i say..."what unadulterated bullshit" You don't provide any further insight to your contradictory outburst of profanity, though, so it can be disregarded as soon as it is asserted. Have a great day ;) thank you.....:d i just love outbursts of profanity against morons like 451, it's like anger therapy..... well on the leave it alone and it will fix itself, can you give me an example where leaving terrorist activities alone has worked??? But we're not fixing anything, We're retaking oil fields. Australia will be worse off for my kids because uneducated morons like you are living in fear. retaking oil fields? i am not living in fear, i am not certain where you got you information or if are of sound mind and mentally stable, but for this purpose of this argument i will assume you are, however difficult that may be...... ok so let's just say we let ISIS run rampage through the middle east and hard line militant extremists take control and start indoctrinating mass fruit loops to the sharia extremist islamic views, that will be the end of it , will it?? these extremists will just stay in their islamic stae?? they won't spread to Syria, Iran,Iraq,pakistan, Afghanistan or anywhere in the world??? Or perhaps they create their own little insular state and become the next North Korea. When was the last time you gave a shit about North Korea? umm the last time they beheaded an innocent journalist, and last time i checked Koreas wasn't trying to create a caliphate state at the expense of my freedom and lifestyle. and really Matt, you question me about utilising examples that are not 100% in context, but are guilty of it yourself.....:-s Edited by batfink: 21/9/2014 02:36:39 PM How would a caliphate in the Middle East come at the expense of your freedom and lifestyle? So Matt, you do understand the full meaning of Caliphate don't you??? I understand the definition of a caliphate, but I don't know the "full meaning" perversions that idiots have put on it, no. A caliphate in the middle east would have about as much effect on your lifestyle as a kingdom popping up in South America. Under many definitions of Caliphate/kalafat/khalifat is the succession and expansion of the state..... and you say a Caliphate in the "Middle east" would not effect my lifestyle, i agree IF the state ignored the succession and expansion doctrine, however i find that highly unlikely, also the ISIS activity has already effected my lifestyle
|
|
|
notorganic
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K,
Visits: 0
|
How has IS already affected your lifestyle. Any links to where I can read more about your necessary expansionist theories. Any links to where I can see credible threats to make central NSW part of the caliphate?
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
|
|
|
marconi101
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 16K,
Visits: 0
|
When you quote people for the love of god can you delete the giant fucking quote box, you don't need to quote whole fucking thing Lambie reminds me of a non-Evangelical, Australian version of Sarah Palin. Just a dumb, bigoted simpleton given a medium by a political party to spew stupid bullshit
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
|
|
|
notorganic
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K,
Visits: 0
|
batfink wrote:http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/09/22/slipper-be-sentenced-fraud
who was it saying he wasn't guilty and it was all fabricated???? I think you've misunderstood the difference between someone saying that he wasn't guilty and someone saying that he was held to a different standard than all other politicians who misuse their entitlements but aren't referred to the AFP to further political assassination.
|
|
|
paulbagzFC
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44K,
Visits: 0
|
marconi101 wrote:Lambie reminds me of a non-Evangelical, Australian version of Sarah Palin. Just a dumb, bigoted simpleton given a medium by a political party to spew stupid bullshit She makes Hanson look good :lol: -PB
|
|
|
mcjules
|
|
Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
|
paulbagzFC wrote:marconi101 wrote:Lambie reminds me of a non-Evangelical, Australian version of Sarah Palin. Just a dumb, bigoted simpleton given a medium by a political party to spew stupid bullshit She makes Hanson look good :lol: -PB She makes current day Hanson look good. Pauline has 20 years of experience now and doesn't stick her foot in it as often. She'd still be terrible to have in parliament however...
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
batfink wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:RedKat wrote:[youtube]o63FGy3mPWI&list=UUVgO39Bk5sMo66-6o6Spn6Q[/youtube] good on you everyone who voted for halfwits like this.................your deserve them Hey bat - are you saying that not organic and mcjules are of a similar gene pool ? are you suggesting BOTH of them voted PUP???? Hum well no, just that reading some of their posts are - well just as sad as listening to her :shock:
Love Football
|
|
|
mcjules
|
|
Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
|
M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:RedKat wrote:[youtube]o63FGy3mPWI&list=UUVgO39Bk5sMo66-6o6Spn6Q[/youtube] good on you everyone who voted for halfwits like this.................your deserve them Hey bat - are you saying that not organic and mcjules are of a similar gene pool ? are you suggesting BOTH of them voted PUP???? Hum well no, just that reading some of their posts are - well just as sad as listening to her :shock: Don't think I've seen you post in this thread before but comparing notor and myself to Jackie Lambie...wow :lol:
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
|
|
|
notorganic
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K,
Visits: 0
|
mcjules wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:RedKat wrote:[youtube]o63FGy3mPWI&list=UUVgO39Bk5sMo66-6o6Spn6Q[/youtube] good on you everyone who voted for halfwits like this.................your deserve them Hey bat - are you saying that not organic and mcjules are of a similar gene pool ? are you suggesting BOTH of them voted PUP???? Hum well no, just that reading some of their posts are - well just as sad as listening to her :shock: Don't think I've seen you post in this thread before but comparing notor and myself to Jackie Lambie...wow :lol: I only like guys with big dicks, too.
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:RedKat wrote:[youtube]o63FGy3mPWI&list=UUVgO39Bk5sMo66-6o6Spn6Q[/youtube] good on you everyone who voted for halfwits like this.................your deserve them Hey bat - are you saying that not organic and mcjules are of a similar gene pool ? are you suggesting BOTH of them voted PUP???? Hum well no, just that reading some of their posts are - well just as sad as listening to her :shock: LOL......=d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> :lol: :lol: :d :d :d
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
notorganic wrote:mcjules wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:M.L. wrote:batfink wrote:RedKat wrote:[youtube]o63FGy3mPWI&list=UUVgO39Bk5sMo66-6o6Spn6Q[/youtube] good on you everyone who voted for halfwits like this.................your deserve them Hey bat - are you saying that not organic and mcjules are of a similar gene pool ? are you suggesting BOTH of them voted PUP???? Hum well no, just that reading some of their posts are - well just as sad as listening to her :shock: Don't think I've seen you post in this thread before but comparing notor and myself to Jackie Lambie...wow :lol: I only like guys with big dicks, too. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
|
|
|
BETHFC
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 8.2K,
Visits: 0
|
RedKat wrote:"There will be no new taxes under a government I lead" Quote:Every road in Australia should have tolls, says report EVERY road in the nation would be tolled with costs tied to what, where and when you drive, under a recommendation from a powerful review commissioned by the Federal Government. The review of competition policy also argues for opening up industries such as taxis and pharmacies, removing restrictions on trading hours and deregulating power prices, as well as closing the gap between what Australians and the rest of the world pay for books, music and software. But of all the recommendations in the 313-page report, the most controversial is the proposal for “cost-reflective pricing for roads”. Review panel chairman, University of Melbourne economics professor Ian Harper, told News Corp Australia “we now have the capacity to charge people for their use of the road system according to time of day, size of the vehicle and whereabouts they happen to be”. Professor Harper said “the road system is the only example of an infrastructure asset, where the government owns the great bulk of the asset, funded through the tax system and given away for nothing”. If Singapore and London could direct-charge road users why couldn’t Australia, he asked. “People should reconsider they already pay for the roads” through fuel excise and the time-cost of congestion. “Sitting in queues of traffic is as costly … as paying,” Professor Harper said. Australian Automobile Association executive director Andrew McKellar said “a road-user charging model … should be on the agenda over the medium-term”. “But you’ve got to ensure that motorists don’t end up paying more.” The recommendation wasn’t “about raising any more money”, Professor Harper said, because petrol taxes and other levies would fall to offset usage charges. It would, however, encourage motorists to change route, the time they travel, or to hop on public transport, he said. Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman Rod Sims said: “Getting a more sensible road policy is good for consumers. We’ll have more and better roads.” The minister responsible for competition matters, Bruce Billson, said some recommendations “may raise eyebrows”, although he wouldn’t comment specifically on the direct-charge proposal. Mr Billson, who commissioned the review, encouraged the public to give feedback. Other review recommendations include increasing competition in industries such as taxis and pharmacies to give consumers more choice, as well as getting rid of “remaining restrictions on parallel imports” because it would lower prices. Consumer group Choice said the recommendation would axe the “Australia tax” on movies, games, TV series, clothing and cosmetics. Deregulating power prices — where it hadn’t been done already — would increase competition, the review panel argued. Of trading hours, Professor Harper said businesses — not governments — should decide when stores are open. The only times where they may be a “social” case for imposing a close were Christmas, Good Friday and the morning of Anzac Day. http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/every-road-in-australia-should-have-tolls-says-report/story-fnagkbpv-1227067053501 The public will bitch and moan about paying to use roads. The funny thing is we constantly have to keep upgrading and widening roads because people can't bloody drive/merge properly :lol:
|
|
|
Les Gock
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 681,
Visits: 0
|
RedKat wrote:"There will be no new taxes under a government I lead" [quote]Every road in Australia should have tolls, says report EVERY road in the nation would be tolled with costs tied to what, where and when you drive, under a recommendation from a powerful review commissioned by the Federal Government. The review of competition policy also argues for opening up industries such as taxis and pharmacies, removing restrictions on trading hours and deregulating power prices, as well as closing the gap between what Australians and the rest of the world pay for books, music and software. But of all the recommendations in the 313-page report, the most controversial is the proposal for “cost-reflective pricing for roads”. Review panel chairman, University of Melbourne economics professor Ian Harper, told News Corp Australia “we now have the capacity to charge people for their use of the road system according to time of day, size of the vehicle and whereabouts they happen to be”. Professor Harper said “the road system is the only example of an infrastructure asset, where the government owns the great bulk of the asset, funded through the tax system and given away for nothing”. If Singapore and London could direct-charge road users why couldn’t Australia, he asked. “People should reconsider they already pay for the roads” through fuel excise and the time-cost of congestion. “Sitting in queues of traffic is as costly … as paying,” Professor Harper said. Australian Automobile Association executive director Andrew McKellar said “a road-user charging model … should be on the agenda over the medium-term”. “But you’ve got to ensure that motorists don’t end up paying more.” The recommendation wasn’t “about raising any more money”, Professor Harper said, because petrol taxes and other levies would fall to offset usage charges. It would, however, encourage motorists to change route, the time they travel, or to hop on public transport, he said. Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman Rod Sims said: “Getting a more sensible road policy is good for consumers. We’ll have more and better roads.” The minister responsible for competition matters, Bruce Billson, said some recommendations “may raise eyebrows”, although he wouldn’t comment specifically on the direct-charge proposal. Mr Billson, who commissioned the review, encouraged the public to give feedback. Other review recommendations include increasing competition in industries such as taxis and pharmacies to give consumers more choice, as well as getting rid of “remaining restrictions on parallel imports” because it would lower prices. Consumer group Choice said the recommendation would axe the “Australia tax” on movies, games, TV series, clothing and cosmetics. Deregulating power prices — where it hadn’t been done already — would increase competition, the review panel argued. Of trading hours, Professor Harper said businesses — not governments — should decide when stores are open. The only times where they may be a “social” case for imposing a close were Christmas, Good Friday and the morning of Anzac Day. http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/every-road-in-australia-should-have-tolls-says-report/story-fnagkbpv-1227067053501 We may have political freedom in Australia where there's a choice of 2 completely inept major parties who are both gradually eroding our economic and social freedoms, while they and the public rack up unsustainable debt. Then there's the massive demographic problem that nobody seems willing to address ie 'native' birth rates below the minimum required for population growth. No Western nation has successfully tackled this problem. If so-called oppressive Russia can have a flat income tax rate of 13%, it's clear we're being robbed blind. The long-term prospects of this country ain't rosy.
|
|
|
marconi101
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 16K,
Visits: 0
|
I'm all for political criticism but I guarantee that anyone who armchair criticizes both parties would do no better a job than they would regardless of their intelligence or qualifications. Unfortunately the political system is motivated by financial movement, not social progression
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
marconi101 wrote:I'm all for political criticism but I guarantee that anyone who armchair criticizes both parties would do no better a job than they would regardless of their intelligence or qualifications. Unfortunately the political system is motivated by financial movement, not social progression Furthermore apathetic voters
|
|
|
marconi101
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 16K,
Visits: 0
|
batfink wrote:marconi101 wrote:I'm all for political criticism but I guarantee that anyone who armchair criticizes both parties would do no better a job than they would regardless of their intelligence or qualifications. Unfortunately the political system is motivated by financial movement, not social progression Furthermore apathetic voters What are you implying
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
marconi101 wrote:batfink wrote:marconi101 wrote:I'm all for political criticism but I guarantee that anyone who armchair criticizes both parties would do no better a job than they would regardless of their intelligence or qualifications. Unfortunately the political system is motivated by financial movement, not social progression Furthermore apathetic voters What are you implying well i agree with your comment and add that i feel people waste their vote on half arsed political parties or candidates. shooters party, motoring enthusiasts party, animal justice party, fishing and lifestyle party and so on....just taking the piss parties.
|
|
|
Fourfiveone
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.1K,
Visits: 0
|
Quote:retaking oil fields? i am not living in fear, i am not certain where you got you information or if are of sound mind and mentally stable, but for this purpose of this argument i will assume you are, however difficult that may be......
ok so let's just say we let ISIS run rampage through the middle east and hard line militant extremists take control and start indoctrinating mass fruit loops to the sharia extremist islamic views, that will be the end of it , will it?? these extremists will just stay in their islamic stae?? they won't spread to Syria, Iran,Iraq,pakistan, Afghanistan or anywhere in the world??? [-o< another display of complete ignorance. You've really out done yourself. Read carefully you might learn something. They can't even take Syria you think they would stand a chance against Pakistan or Iran's military? And as to the oil fields. It's been well publicized in the media that IS is selling oil. When you are at war the first thing you have to do is cut your enemies supply. So that is exactly what we are doing. Same reason we went there last time (hint it wasn't WMD), same reason we went to East Timor(natural gas). Next time you dribble shit try and use facts or back up your argument with some points finky.
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
Fourfiveone wrote:Quote:retaking oil fields? i am not living in fear, i am not certain where you got you information or if are of sound mind and mentally stable, but for this purpose of this argument i will assume you are, however difficult that may be......
ok so let's just say we let ISIS run rampage through the middle east and hard line militant extremists take control and start indoctrinating mass fruit loops to the sharia extremist islamic views, that will be the end of it , will it?? these extremists will just stay in their islamic stae?? they won't spread to Syria, Iran,Iraq,pakistan, Afghanistan or anywhere in the world??? [-o< another display of complete ignorance. You've really out done yourself. Read carefully you might learn something. They can't even take Syria you think they would stand a chance against Pakistan or Iran's military? And as to the oil fields. It's been well publicized in the media that [size=9]IS is selling oil. When you are at war the first thing you have to do is cut your enemies supply. So that is exactly what we are doing. [/size]Same reason we went there last time (hint it wasn't WMD), same reason we went to East Timor(natural gas). Next time you dribble shit try and use facts or back up your argument with some points finky. so which is??? IS selling oil OR we are disrupting the oil supply OR wait for it BOTH...... seek help, probably schizophroid paranoia..... Edited by batfink: 23/9/2014 12:32:26 PM
|
|
|
Les Gock
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 681,
Visits: 0
|
marconi101 wrote:I'm all for political criticism but I guarantee that anyone who armchair criticizes both parties would do no better a job than they would regardless of their intelligence or qualifications. Of course, but that's like saying football fans who criticise a coach wouldn't do a better job themselves. Quote:Unfortunately the political system is motivated by financial movement, not social progression That's kinda what I was implying - the people who control this country (certainly not the politicians) don't have the progression of society or our collective interests at heart. All these Left v. Right debates are nothing but a diversion. When Aristotle outlined his ideal forms of government, the success of the political system depends on powers-that-be ruling by virtue rather than self-interest. An old-fashioned concept in 2014. :lol:
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
Les Gock wrote:marconi101 wrote:I'm all for political criticism but I guarantee that anyone who armchair criticizes both parties would do no better a job than they would regardless of their intelligence or qualifications. Of course, but that's like saying football fans who criticise a coach wouldn't do a better job themselves. Quote:Unfortunately the political system is motivated by financial movement, not social progression That's kinda what I was implying - the people who control this country (certainly not the politicians) don't have the progression of society or our collective interests at heart. All these Left v. Right debates are nothing but a diversion. When Aristotle outlined his ideal forms of government, the success of the political system depends on powers-that-be ruling by virtue rather than self-interest. An old-fashioned concept in 2014. :lol: still playing guitar?? how's HUSH going??
|
|
|
marconi101
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 16K,
Visits: 0
|
Quote:That's kinda what I was implying - the people who control this country (certainly not the politicians) don't have the progression of society or our collective interests at heart. All these Left v. Right debates are nothing but a diversion.
When Aristotle outlined his ideal forms of government, the success of the political system depends on powers-that-be ruling by virtue rather than self-interest. An old-fashioned concept in 2014. :lol: Capitalism unfortunately breeds self-interest as much as it breeds prosperity Watching Question Time is getting more and more painful. The Govt only ever asks questions about jobs, money or national security; they never argue the social aspect to their ideology. I am convinced that all Labor have to do is not fuck up and they'll be in power for as long as they want it.
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
|
|
|
paulbagzFC
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 44K,
Visits: 0
|
I wonder how batfink thinks this massive raging horde/army is going to rock up in other countries and take them over :lol: -PB
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
paulbagzFC wrote:I wonder how batfink thinks this massive raging horde/army is going to rock up in other countries and take them over :lol:
-PB well here's the thing....i am not saying that....... what i am saying is if left to do what they want and establish the state of hate, then we will have major problems.
|
|
|
notorganic
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K,
Visits: 0
|
batfink wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:I wonder how batfink thinks this massive raging horde/army is going to rock up in other countries and take them over :lol:
-PB well here's the thing....i am not saying that....... what i am saying is if left to do what they want and establish the state of hate, then we will have major problems. Such as?
|
|
|
mcjules
|
|
Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K,
Visits: 0
|
notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:I wonder how batfink thinks this massive raging horde/army is going to rock up in other countries and take them over :lol:
-PB well here's the thing....i am not saying that....... what i am saying is if left to do what they want and establish the state of hate, then we will have major problems. Such as? I assume he's suggesting another Osama Bin Laden type might be accommodated by them ala the Taliban. Who can tell though...
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
|
|
|
batfink
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.9K,
Visits: 0
|
notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:I wonder how batfink thinks this massive raging horde/army is going to rock up in other countries and take them over :lol:
-PB well here's the thing....i am not saying that....... what i am saying is if left to do what they want and establish the state of hate, then we will have major problems. Such as? what do you think Matt, once the state of hate is established, they will all join knitting classes and have tupperware parties??? all peace love and mung beans baby???
|
|
|
notorganic
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 21K,
Visits: 0
|
batfink wrote:notorganic wrote:batfink wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:I wonder how batfink thinks this massive raging horde/army is going to rock up in other countries and take them over :lol:
-PB well here's the thing....i am not saying that....... what i am saying is if left to do what they want and establish the state of hate, then we will have major problems. Such as? what do you think Matt, once the state of hate is established, they will all join knitting classes and have tupperware parties??? all peace love and mung beans baby??? You keep making very vague references to apocalyptic forebodings, I'm asking you specifically what you're talking about. You're also still yet to answer A) How a caliphate in the middle east comes at your personal expense B) How IS has already had an effect on your lifestyle It's a popular tactic of fear mongers. Be as vague and scary as possible, ignore reality.
|
|
|