We don't have a choice. Our GP bulk bills everyone.

Mine's that way though they'll bulk bill my daughter sometimes depending on which one we see.

That's how my GP works.

-PB

I see the internet filter is now back on the cards :lol:

-PB

well...you say we are tight, i pay well above the average Australian for my taxes, for the medicare levy, the medicare rebate.....

so why should i not be able to use bulk billing services???

Are you suggesting therefore all GP visits should be bulk billed and medicines be made free of charge? Isnt that going to be the ultimate keeping the community healthy and minimising maladies that will require more expensive treatment later? Not everyone lives near a clinic that bulk bills and not every who can bulk bill does, therefore in the current system people already may be already discouraged from seeing a doctor due to price signals. The government is just expanding that same rationale to bulk billing clinics, because at some point is becomes very uneconomical to allow free gp visits, and free medicines and free this and free at just because it might keep some people from getting sicker. And that money you save, could be invested in research, such as the $20 billion medical research fund, which could used to invent new technologies which saves even more lives, or gets people out of hospital sooner (therefore saving money), or even cure diseases, which reduces the costs of palliative care or long life treatment (saves more money) and suddenly the economics of charging for GP visits sounds more feasible than allowing free everything just because some people are too tight to pay $5 to see a doc.

c'mon rusty....don't come to this thread and make any sense or logic......you know everyone in here should get everything for free, we are all downtrodden struggling to survive in a 3rd world country with extremely low quality of life......

[size=9]$5....!!!!!!!![/size] :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

There aren't many bulk billing (for everyone) GPs in my area so I already see how price signals discourage. My issue is that the government (previous) had already froze the payments for 2 years (effectively a cut) and now it's been cut further. The Liberal party have never liked Medicare and hate that any money is spent on it but it's too popular to cut so they're doing it by stealth. I also don't accept that the reason that Bulk Billing costs are going up because people who can afford to pay are tight, the population is getting older and the cost to look after a person goes up with age. Most of those people (pensioners) are going to get bulk billed anyway and if they don't we'll be spending even more money when they go to the hospital.

I'm a bit cynical about this medical research fund and how it will be used anyway, but if we assume it's done well it will save some lives but not as many as a good primary care system.

I don't think the Liberal party hate Medicare, i just think they are way better at monitoring area's that blow out, just like medicare is blowing out massively for one reason or another that is yet to be determined, with the participation rate increasing at the rate it has the costs are escalating rapidly and need to be reined in. pretty simple really.

Really like to see a list of all the handouts currently available to people, what they are and who is eligible

Child endowment. (is it still called that?)
first home owners grant.
first start

any others???

What's first start?

You failed to mention negative gearing and business tax breaks.

Also, how are you defining "handout"?

This.

-PB

You didn't really answer my question if you think all GP visits should be bulk billed, and whether the philosophy of a"good primary care system" should also extend free medicines. Surely there are people out there who are sick, can afford to see a GP for free, but can't afford the medicines or treatment they're prescribed. Waiting lists for certain operations are also extraordinarily long, and this is adding to the cost of treatment when more serious expensive complications arise due to the delay in getting treatment? I was wondering if you think the government should spend more money on building hospitals and training doctors and nurses as it would offer a far better primary care system than the status quo, cos the current system, other than offering GP visits, isn't that good. Definitely way behind the private system.

To be direct in an ideal world it would all be free, but I know this isn't possible. Make no mistake I pay a gap when I go to the doctor and I pay (under the PBS) for my medicines. I accept that without this we'd have to pay much more tax. I know this is completely unpalatable to many so the balance has to be struck. I'm just making the point that we shouldn't be discouraging people from visiting the GP to save a few dollars as it will ultimately cost us more in the long run. I think the elective surgery waiting times suck but I'm not informed enough to know who is missing out on life threatening surgery as a result of it.

Regarding spending more money on hospitals and training doctors and nurses. Sure that'd be great as well but the government aren't proposing to do this anyway. In fact with the changes to universities you could argue they're doing the opposite. Hospitals in our system generally don't do much primary care.

Ok now let me ask you a question, are you against universal health care? Do you think we should dismantle the whole thing and make it completely private?

ok sorry,

name all the welfare benefits available to residents.

first start......sorry again.....what's the dole equivalent for the uni students???

Newstart.

And what is the issue with it?

-PB

Why would an entirely free health care system extending to medicines not be possible? The government currently subsidies about 85% of the PBS, surely they could tack on another .5% to the Levy to ensure the most vulnerable , poor and sickest aren't priced out of affordable healthcare? Medicines in fact used to be free, until around 1960 when a co-payment was introduced.

I understand the point you're making about discouraging people from seeing the GP, but wouldn't the same principle also apply to medicines? Some people are priced out of buying medicines, and therefore they get sicker, does this not increase the cost of providing treatment later? One could argue it's a greater burden to future health costs than merely GP visits, as it's actually medicines that help people get better not consultations.

I totally agree with you about striking a balance between treatment and costs, though I do think the opposition to the co-payment mostly stems mostly from intangible concepts and values such as fairness and the right to certain things in society rather than the economics of it. Labor obviously don't want it because they want to protect their legacy of having introduced "free" healthcare for Australia, it's a good way for them to attack the government and remind people of Labors values. Even though they themselves tried to introduce a co-payment in the 80's, and dumped it, not because it was against their values but because it was bad politically.

To answer your question, I do believe in universal healthcare, I also believe in a sustainable healthcare model, eliminating waste and working with the private sector to deliver reduced costs and better outcomes. I don't think a co-payment invalidates health cares universality, in the same way the PBS doesn't invalidate it. I also think it's fair and right for people who use the system, even the sick, poor and elderly, to make some sort of contribution to it, rather than just pegging it all on certain income groups. That's why I was disappointing the government exempted concession card holders and the elderly from the new co-payment, but was this obviously done for political reasons not ideological nor economic. Hopefully we can past all this inanity about "fairness" and scruples about making poor pay tiny bit towards their healthcare that is 99% funded by other people.

you are a strange one ballbagz....

all i am asking is what welfare and family benefits are available these days???

Its called google finky. Everything the government gives is on there . Use it

i don't get anything, never have.....in my day you asked for help when you were desperate.......

http://www.australia.gov.au/topics/benefits-payments-and-services

Also you cant be that daft finky someone so learned like you , should know what Google is

Often the loudest whingers about government "handouts" are those benefitting significantly from negative gearing and the Howard Government's halving of capital gains tax.

so the rich

rich or not, but getting a massive free kick from the government.

of course i do.....up to my armpits in tenders and designs racing into the X-mas break, i don't like to rely on google,

TBH i was looking for you guys to fess up and tell me, isn't that the purpose of this forum, to communicate and debate?

i think it is a bit naive to assume that anyone who has negative gearing or capital gais is rich, what about all the self funded superannuation investors???????????????

not really....extremely naive of you guys to TRY and parallel welfare against business/investments

Often the loudest whingers about those benefitting significantly from negative gearing and the halving of CGT are those benefiting from paying less or nil tax.

Edited by rusty: 12/12/2014 08:32:51 PM