rusty
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u4486662 wrote:rusty wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:rusty wrote:
What's wrong with having a day unique to Australian to remember our fallen soldiers? Remembrance day has more of an international significance and doesn't resonate with Australians as much as Anzac Day does.
Because 54 000 blokes died on the Western front (in the main). Only 6000 died at Gallipoli. If you like, commemorating ANZAC day is not very fair to the majority of Australian war casualties. (Who died elsewhere. In far worse conditions.) Stick with Remembrance day. The orgification of Anzac day is a relatively recent phenomenon. (Arguing on 2 fronts here Rusty. Just like Germany circa 1945.) Gallipoli is the battle where Australia lost the most lives and is symbolic of our greater participation in that war, and also all wars since. We can have Remembrance Day AND Anzac Day too (kind of like hard and soft tacos). Anzac Day is more cherished and has been commemorated as a public holiday since 1920s. Wasn't there like 20,000 killed in pozieres? Casualities not sure how many were killed.
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BETHFC
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Munrubenmuz wrote:rusty wrote:u4486662 wrote:I think we'll be a better country when we commemorate without the mythology or glorification, but rather recognise that war is fucking terrible and should be avoided. And also recognise that our soldiers were no better or worse but rather just human like their military foes. And that our enemies have similar tales of heroism and horrible loss. Most people do the right thing, but IMO the media love a beat up with their cool stories, re-enactments, slow motion etc. I think the country is getting a bit sick of the commercialisation. War might be terrible but those who participate in it should be glorified. If they have laid down their lives for their country they should be honoured and remembered more than someone who didn't make that sacrifice. Armies need to soldiers so also don't have a problem with legends and mythology if it inspires folks to join up. That's going to build an army better than telling them they're terrible and their efforts are for shit. If they've died because of no good reason they should be pitied not glorified. Glorifying them only encourages more ignorant saps to stick their hand up the next time a barney blows up. Maybe, like the VIetnam War, if the populace, says, by and large, "fuck you" to the government of the day we can avoid getting our blokes killed in some politicians folly. War is shit and these poor young men died for the Empire's cause. I respect the sacrifice and bravery. Maybe you should show a little more gratitude instead of toting the line "they fought for nothing". The cause is irrelevant.
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LFC.
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Here here, water under the bridge why question it now ! and better off keeping your opinion to yourself. Respect where respect is due in leaps and bounds.
Love Football
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ricecrackers
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Why question it now? Perhaps to learn from the mistakes of history.
Futile though as you people never learn.
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paulbagzFC
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Quote:We have become a nation of individuals with a sense of entitlement, and are prone to narcissism, jingoism and chauvinism. What's more, there's no political leadership of any colour to turn this around, writes Bruce Haigh.
Brace yourselves: things are not going to get better in Australia, at least not for some time.
It is to do with our collective moral fibre - or lack of it - as exhibited by our politicians, public servants, captains of business and industry, senior military officers and the media. And the reason is selfishness, greed and immaturity.
The last budget, roundly condemned and rejected by all but the top end of town, was a poorly disguised attack on low-income Australians and those on welfare. Talk of Joe Hockey introducing a "moderate" budget is an admission that Tony Abbott's scorched earth policy has failed. To compound matters, no real alternative vision has been offered to voters, either by the Coalition or Labor.
The collapse of Australia's mining exports will see the economy decline in the absence of other revenue streams developing to overcome the shortfall. Australia is moving into recession and there is nothing the Reserve Bank can do about it, armed with only the crude instrument of adjustments to the interest rate. Insufficient provision was made for the future by the populist Howard government.
The same lack of forethought and planning has given rise to the current crisis in health care and education. Enter any Medicare office in a major centre and witness the confusion and anger. Talk to the staff to see how services and payments are being reduced. It is nonsense to argue a case that costs are spiralling out of control compared to 10 years ago. Together the costs have risen along with the population and proportion of aged people needing care.
The problem lies with a revenue base that is not keeping pace with the needs of the community. Cutting spending on health, education and research will not solve budgetary problems; it will only create further difficulties. Paranoid politicians and public servants should/must consider cutting defence funding, ideologically driven and exorbitant expenditure of keeping Australia free of the contagion of refugees arriving by boat, and the continued subsidy of wealthy elitist private schools.
The national debate about the use and conservation of water and best use of productive land is absent. The National Party should be leading this debate but it is devoid and bereft of ideas and policies to the point that it has seemingly welcomed coal seam gas mining. Its interest has focused on the chauvinistic concern of seeking a register of foreign ownership, which is irrelevant when laws do not exist to govern and protect the sustainable use of land.
There is no leadership toward empowering Aboriginal people. There has been no examination of the decline in social infrastructure that sees even the smallest country town affected by the ravages of ice, leading to dislocation and brutal acts of violence. We and our leadership seem incapable of coming to grips with child abuse, whether by institutions, government or dysfunctional families and predatory individuals.
Church leaders have failed to provide ethical or moral leadership, apparently more concerned with protecting their flock than with helping to support what should be our sectarian democracy.
Climate change denial by the Abbott Government will see Australia become part of the problem rather than helping find solutions. It has resulted in there being no national strategy for the handling and deployment of human and materiel resources for significant national and regional disasters as a result of climate change.
The media, now embedded in the political elite, has failed to adequately call the political process and leadership for what it is. Compared to how earlier generations of journalists would have handled it, Howard wasn't really called for being a racist, nor for being fast and loose with the truth. Rudd was hardly castigated for his arrogance and selfishness. Gillard wasn't called out as a hypocrite for selling out on what she maintained were her Left credentials, and Abbott wasn't really called out for being a bully, a racist, a misogynist, dissembling, erratic and an intellectual lightweight.
Myths have been woven to hide our weaknesses, to boost our low self esteem, to overcome our national inferiority complex. These myths have become self defeating in light of the need to honestly face our shortcomings and renew ourselves and our leadership. The myth of the Anzac is just that, and not something to build or sustain a nation on.
Are we really a nation of volunteers? I doubt it. We have become a nation of individuals with a sense of entitlement leading to ever increasing levels of corruption. We are prone to narcissism, jingoism and chauvinism.
It would seem that things will get worse before they get better. Already, Australians have turned away from mainstream politics; most are fed up with Tony Abbott. They see him as a clown; they are waiting for Malcolm Turnbull to take over. Few, with the exception of hardcore Labor supporters, see much prospect of Bill Shorten addressing basic and outstanding issues.
Until the Liberal Party can find the courage to replace Abbott, the country is adrift with the very real prospect of them handing power to Shorten, who hasn't a clue what to do with it. Abbott has managed, in a short space of time, to alienate many who otherwise might have been expected to vote for the Coalition.
Are we in for a growth in radical movements and expression of political opinion on both the left and the right?
Bruce Haigh is a political commentator and retired diplomat. -PB
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BETHFC
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paulbagzFC wrote:Quote:We have become a nation of individuals with a sense of entitlement, and are prone to narcissism, jingoism and chauvinism. What's more, there's no political leadership of any colour to turn this around, writes Bruce Haigh.
Brace yourselves: things are not going to get better in Australia, at least not for some time.
It is to do with our collective moral fibre - or lack of it - as exhibited by our politicians, public servants, captains of business and industry, senior military officers and the media. And the reason is selfishness, greed and immaturity.
The last budget, roundly condemned and rejected by all but the top end of town, was a poorly disguised attack on low-income Australians and those on welfare. Talk of Joe Hockey introducing a "moderate" budget is an admission that Tony Abbott's scorched earth policy has failed. To compound matters, no real alternative vision has been offered to voters, either by the Coalition or Labor.
The collapse of Australia's mining exports will see the economy decline in the absence of other revenue streams developing to overcome the shortfall. Australia is moving into recession and there is nothing the Reserve Bank can do about it, armed with only the crude instrument of adjustments to the interest rate. Insufficient provision was made for the future by the populist Howard government.
The same lack of forethought and planning has given rise to the current crisis in health care and education. Enter any Medicare office in a major centre and witness the confusion and anger. Talk to the staff to see how services and payments are being reduced. It is nonsense to argue a case that costs are spiralling out of control compared to 10 years ago. Together the costs have risen along with the population and proportion of aged people needing care.
The problem lies with a revenue base that is not keeping pace with the needs of the community. Cutting spending on health, education and research will not solve budgetary problems; it will only create further difficulties. Paranoid politicians and public servants should/must consider cutting defence funding, ideologically driven and exorbitant expenditure of keeping Australia free of the contagion of refugees arriving by boat, and the continued subsidy of wealthy elitist private schools.
The national debate about the use and conservation of water and best use of productive land is absent. The National Party should be leading this debate but it is devoid and bereft of ideas and policies to the point that it has seemingly welcomed coal seam gas mining. Its interest has focused on the chauvinistic concern of seeking a register of foreign ownership, which is irrelevant when laws do not exist to govern and protect the sustainable use of land.
There is no leadership toward empowering Aboriginal people. There has been no examination of the decline in social infrastructure that sees even the smallest country town affected by the ravages of ice, leading to dislocation and brutal acts of violence. We and our leadership seem incapable of coming to grips with child abuse, whether by institutions, government or dysfunctional families and predatory individuals.
Church leaders have failed to provide ethical or moral leadership, apparently more concerned with protecting their flock than with helping to support what should be our sectarian democracy.
Climate change denial by the Abbott Government will see Australia become part of the problem rather than helping find solutions. It has resulted in there being no national strategy for the handling and deployment of human and materiel resources for significant national and regional disasters as a result of climate change.
The media, now embedded in the political elite, has failed to adequately call the political process and leadership for what it is. Compared to how earlier generations of journalists would have handled it, Howard wasn't really called for being a racist, nor for being fast and loose with the truth. Rudd was hardly castigated for his arrogance and selfishness. Gillard wasn't called out as a hypocrite for selling out on what she maintained were her Left credentials, and Abbott wasn't really called out for being a bully, a racist, a misogynist, dissembling, erratic and an intellectual lightweight.
Myths have been woven to hide our weaknesses, to boost our low self esteem, to overcome our national inferiority complex. These myths have become self defeating in light of the need to honestly face our shortcomings and renew ourselves and our leadership. The myth of the Anzac is just that, and not something to build or sustain a nation on.
Are we really a nation of volunteers? I doubt it. We have become a nation of individuals with a sense of entitlement leading to ever increasing levels of corruption. We are prone to narcissism, jingoism and chauvinism.
It would seem that things will get worse before they get better. Already, Australians have turned away from mainstream politics; most are fed up with Tony Abbott. They see him as a clown; they are waiting for Malcolm Turnbull to take over. Few, with the exception of hardcore Labor supporters, see much prospect of Bill Shorten addressing basic and outstanding issues.
Until the Liberal Party can find the courage to replace Abbott, the country is adrift with the very real prospect of them handing power to Shorten, who hasn't a clue what to do with it. Abbott has managed, in a short space of time, to alienate many who otherwise might have been expected to vote for the Coalition.
Are we in for a growth in radical movements and expression of political opinion on both the left and the right?
Bruce Haigh is a political commentator and retired diplomat. -PB The sense of entitlement in this country seems to be that the rich should cough up to paper over the poor financial decisions made by those in power.....
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Fourfiveone
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rusty wrote:
War might be terrible but those who participate in it should be glorified. If they have laid down their lives for their country they should be honoured and remembered more than someone who didn't make that sacrifice. Armies need to soldiers so also don't have a problem with legends and mythology if it inspires folks to join up. That's going to build an army better than telling them they're terrible and their efforts are for shit.
It's funny you say that. My grandfather was a digger and he believed the complete opposite, he didn't want his sons and grandsons put through what he suffered. Myths should be left to the centaurs and Demi gods. We don't need those in power misrepresenting the truth to send more gullible young men to their deaths.
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Carlito
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:Fourfiveone wrote:rusty wrote:
War might be terrible but those who participate in it should be glorified. If they have laid down their lives for their country they should be honoured and remembered more than someone who didn't make that sacrifice. Armies need to soldiers so also don't have a problem with legends and mythology if it inspires folks to join up. That's going to build an army better than telling them they're terrible and their efforts are for shit.
It's funny you say that. My grandfather was a digger and he believed the complete opposite, he didn't want his sons and grandsons put through what he suffered. Myths should be left to the centaurs and Demi gods. We don't need those in power misrepresenting the truth to send more gullible young men to their deaths.
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99 Problems
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Realistically Anzac day has become our rememberance day. Soldiers from all wars are honored on the day
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paulbagzFC
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200k for gardening. Geeeeez. -PB
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Joffa
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Abbott all over the road David Tyler 3 May 2015, 8:30pm 213 2 New AustraliansPolitics The only constant with the Abbott Government is it's inconsistency, writes David Tyler.he only thing you can rely on with the Abbott Government is it's inconsistency, writes David Tyler. Say what you like about Tony Abbott but he's a bugger to follow. Harder than eating red beans with a pitchfork. He's always been a lair, but now he hoons, fishtails and careers all over the tarmac in his own death-wish demolition derby. Has he finally crashed and burnt on his mission to save "The Bali Nine Pair" Chan and Sukumaran from Indonesian justice? Shopped by Federal Police who have yet to explain why, the youngsters fell victim to operational "information sharing". Conflicted from the outset, clumsy, confused, the Abbott Government had little chance of intercession later, despite our hope and media hype. Abbott’s threat to cancel aid, however, served only to harden Indonesia’s intransigence. Now the PM could help himself by answering a few basic questions. Why did we set up a drug bust with a nation with a death penalty? Did we need a favour in return? Is he happy with his negotiation style? The PM can be abrasive. European leaders should turn back refugee boats; follow his lead, he lectures, leaving Julie Bishop to suggest lamely that her boss was merely offering his experiences for others to consider, adding injury to insult. She went on to contradict him, further shredding his credibility as a strong leader. Sent in to the rescue no doubt, Katie Hopkins of Murdoch’s Sun, who has called refugees ‘cockroaches’ rose to the occasion, if somewhat lowering the Tone. 'Australians are like British people but with balls of steel, can-do brains, tiny hearts and whacking great gunships.' European leaders are bemused. Yet they can’t help but laugh at the presumption and self-delusion of our Walter Mitty would-be strong man. They see him flip-flop. One minute, we are all washed up; down the debt and deficit gurgler, he wags his finger. Next, he's spending up big like a drunken sailor out on the town but with someone else’s money. Ours. Funds are so low we must scrap Federal literacy support for school kids; but suddenly Abbott stumps up $100 million we don't have, to build a memorial to John Monash, which, frankly, neither of us needs — in France. Gallic gratitude to "our boys" aside, the French hardly need another war museum — even, as promised, one just pulsing with interactive, hands-on stuff to help the mindless to reflect. Let homeless war veterans sleep on the streets. Let battered wives be forced to stay at home with their tormentors. We can’t spare funds for more refuges. Forget John Monash, the Villers-Bretonneux museum is effectively a monument to an inept Australian PM, desperate to boost his image; to hitch his wagon to a star. If his wagon were not a sky rocket without a stick. One moment, Abbott's toe to toe with Widodo; next, he's wimped out, settling for a lame, ambassadorial recall for two weeks — a "go stand in the naughty corner" which Indonesia is already laughing off. Being a hypocrite doesn't help. The PM can go off like a frog in a sock about Indonesian injustice all he likes, but he's connived with Dutton to achieve a Vietnamese refugee turn-back behind our backs. The Abbott government has allowed asylum seekers of all ages to be raped and one even to be murdered. He's also earned the censure of both the UN for indefinite detention and children in detention. Censure, too from the rest of the world for announcing we are not to be lectured on human rights. Small wonder Widodo thinks he's a joke-O. With thousands of Australian-bound UNHCR registered asylum seekers marooned in Indonesia at a stroke of the pen by Australia’s 2014 Sovereign Borders law, moreover, Joko Widodo may well have the last laugh. No wonder Peta Credlin went missing in action. Or was just run off the road. His formerly inseparable Amazonian chief of staff just vanished after Rupert Murdoch told Abbott to drop her. Silence prevails. Secrecy is in this government's DNA, intertwined with dirty tricks, slipperiness and its fondness for lies. Pity. Peta Credlin is a lot easier to look at than her boss. Smarter, too. You can tell she's been sidelined, sadly, by the PM's increasingly ill-advised stunts since Rupert's call; the erratic trajectory of Captain Chaos' ship, snaking this way and that before burning out on re-entry and falling back to earth with a thud. Come back, Peta, your boss is the loaded dog without your leash; your house-training. Stop squandering money on such luxuries as running the country, employing people and looking after citizens, advise the Abbott Government’s tanks of neo-con artists. Let them buy their own bloody aspirin and paracetamol! Labor will take the blame for all of this for at least the next millennium, while professional shakedown merchants scab the rest from the poor and needy. Well, not quite all. The elderly need to be helped to empty their pockets, fork over their savings and anything else of value. Otherwise, it's "intergenerational theft". Time for another tank of thinkers to rattle the can it carries for our neo-con LNP. Pensioners who can’t be put to work at Mitre 10 are to be hit up for their spare change and any coin that may have fallen down the back of the sofa before being forced to give their homes to finance companies. The "Australia Institute" – an oxymoron which bills itself as "a progressive think tank" – will then talk up reverse mortgages, (perverse?) until the elderly cave in completely and hock the family home in terror because they have been conned into thinking they must fund their own meagre pensions. Yet now, suddenly, miraculously, Abbott can afford more troops for his war-gasm in Iraq; funds to give to arborists and others quick enough to stick their hands out for Greg Hunt's phony "carbon abatement" scheme handout; a quarter of a billion on nannies; a special fence to keep himself safe in Canberra. The list goes on. The man's a virtual magic pudding mix-master; a genius when it comes to putting the con in neo-con or looking after his own ends. Yet tragically, there seems to have been little cash splashed where it mattered in his latest, dreadful, debacle with the Indonesians, where events prove the Abbott Government has truly run up its own moral debt and deficit disaster, having burned all diplomatic and political capital pursuing moronic three word slogans, enacting laws repudiating all international obligations. No. Having inflicted calculated cruelty on those to whom we should extend compassion, there has quickly come the point, when the rest of the world will cheerfully tell us to go to hell — however much we beg their mercy. You can follow David Tyler on Twitter @urbanwronski. https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/abbott-all-over-the-road,7662
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BETHFC
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Politics seems to be a mud-slinging contest with the parties best intentions in mind and not the peoples.
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paulbagzFC
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 inb4 jimmies rustled. -PB
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switters
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rusty will be back, he can't resist this thread
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torcida90
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I know that it's a given for any sort of forecast but I did laugh at the second caveat on that poster
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BETHFC
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Milne has resigned from the Greens. Don't let the door hit you on the way out c*nt.
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mcjules
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Di Natale is a good choice as their new leader, even if I think Scott Ludlam is ace :lol: 
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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BETHFC
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mcjules wrote:Di Natale is a good choice as their new leader, even if I think Scott Ludlam is ace :lol: Hopefully he's more about common sense and less about simply opposing everything for the sake of it.
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marconi101
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You watch the Abbott government's ratings in the polls go up after their revolutionary budget
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
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imonfourfourtwo
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marconi101 wrote:You watch the Abbott government's ratings in the polls go up after their revolutionary budget I'm not sure what to think. If the general public only hears 'small-business' then that's great for Tone. If people get confused because confidence and investment is so poor that a government defibrillator is needed at a time when things are apparently supposed to be picking up then it could see a little dip. Also depends if the Parental Leave changes are seen as taking public servants off needless benefits, or attacking hard working nurses and police officers. Looks like Swanny the second.
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paulbagzFC
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I just love the fact that we're hitching our hopes to the Indian gravy train. -PB
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JP
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's an early election coming. This is an election year budget, but also:
- Both the Liberals and Labor have begun preselecting candidates already, which suggests that the Canberra insiders see an election soon as a real possibility
- The Senate is becoming unworkable for the Coalition
- Abbott is gaining in the polls and he's the kind of politician who'll take a gamble like this
It would be logical for the Coalition to push through reform in the Senate with the support of Labor or the Greens (locking out the minor parties for future elections) and then immediately call a Double Dissolution.
I may be wrong, but it would all make a lot of sense...
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marconi101
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imonfourfourtwo wrote:marconi101 wrote:You watch the Abbott government's ratings in the polls go up after their revolutionary budget I'm not sure what to think. If the general public only hears 'small-business' then that's great for Tone. If people get confused because confidence and investment is so poor that a government defibrillator is needed at a time when things are apparently supposed to be picking up then it could see a little dip. Also depends if the Parental Leave changes are seen as taking public servants off needless benefits, or attacking hard working nurses and police officers. Looks like Swanny the second. It was such a do-nothing budget. If they carried on with all the policies from last year they'd lose the election but they still have to reach surplus in the tried and tested conservative method of cutting other people's funding. If they were really determined to reach surplus or just balance the books (this is aimed at Labor too) then they should implement higher taxes on higher earners, but these people have definite in presence in Canberra and the media and this would immediately fire up the handbrakes of humanity in society to fire up and react to bullshit rhetoric. Inb4 socialist, bleeding heart, etc
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
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marconi101
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I had to share this photo of big, bad Barnaby 
He was a man of specific quirks. He believed that all meals should be earned through physical effort. He also contended, zealously like a drunk with a political point, that the third dimension would not be possible if it werent for the existence of water.
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paulbagzFC
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marconi101 wrote:I had to share this photo of big, bad Barnaby #stopthedogs -PB
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mcjules
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Talking about deficits is completely useless of course but I feel on top of that, the whole talk about government debt has lost it's power. It's time the opposition talk in economic indicators that actually matter: 1. Lower unemployment - fail 2. Infrastructure spend in areas that increase productive capacity - fail 3. Keep inflation in check - success 4. Measures to help reduce private sector debt - fail etc
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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ricecrackers
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paulbagzFC wrote:marconi101 wrote:I had to share this photo of big, bad Barnaby #stopthedogs -PB thats an alpaca
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macktheknife
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Shorten actually sounds dare I say it, Prime Ministerial with his budget reply.
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Joffa
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macktheknife wrote:Shorten actually sounds dare I say it, Prime Ministerial with his budget reply. He needs to, winter is coming!
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ricecrackers
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anyone who doesnt see all the politicians for the crooks they are is an idiot living in a dreamland
you deserve your servitude
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