The sooner we get christian right white male privilege politics out of government the better.

That won't happen. It would just leave Labor and Labor lite. The Liberal party IS a conservative party, the conservatives are the heart and soul of the party and the voting base. Even those who gave their support to Turnbull did so because of pragmatic reasons (i.e. keeping their jobs at the next election), which is a very "conservative" thing to do, not because of ideological reasons. Even Turnbull's own pretenses to progressive issues are massively overblown, he isn't going to be fronting gay rallies advocating for marriage equality nor is he going to be bringing back the carbon tax. The economy and fiscal consolidation will be front and center of his brand and the wheels will quickly fall off his raging popularity once people figure out he isn't going to be the great Liberal reformer they expect him to be.

Edited by rusty: 16/9/2015 11:25:21 AM

Labor Lite :lol:

Good one m8 :lol:

-PB

The Liberal party are a "broad church" as libs love to trott out these days because they're quite simply the "anti-labor" party and include a hodgepodge of factions of various views that fit that "anti-labor" philosophy. This in itself is not a bad thing to be but it's clear the conservative arm of the party had far too much sway in the politics. Hope they do split as the ultra conservatives are doing the party no good.

Also agree Turnbull isn't going to change heaps but certainly the rhetoric is going to change. Even though he's not going to dismantle things, the national security bullshit I expect will be toned down big time.

However, if he delivers the Libs another election victory he'll have a lot more influence on the direction of social policy.

There isn't going to be any conservative split within the government. The nationals are even more conservative than the Libersals and they straight away renewed their agreement with the Liberals to maintain coalition government. Pragmatism will triumph at the end of the day and people aren't going to throw away their jobs on the basis of ideological differences.
Bernadi on the other hand might defect or sit as an independent, it would give him more power in the senate to destroy Turnbull's ambitions.

I actually don't mind Bernadi and Christiansen, they are straight shooters and don't try to sugarcoat their words to conform to popular sentiment. We need a bit of this frankness in parliament to offset the hysterical shrills and populist preening of folks like Ludlam and SHY.

Ha Ha thats great.

you don't think Turnbull will change policy?? i thought maybe he is treading lightly and will alter things as he gains control, well i hope so

Bernardi is a simpleton. He appeals to the more extreme right wing, because they tend to be more simplistic thinking people. The type of people who 'Stop. The. Boats' would resonate with, because it's easy to grasp...

Reminded me of this.

[youtube]gb_qHP7VaZE[/youtube]

The liberal party began as the "liberal" party. They used to actually be liberal.

Small government, individual freedoms, getting the government out of our private lives and free market liberalism.

It has become progressively more religiously conservative and authoritative especially over the last 20 years. The only thing they are liberal about now is the market.

Many in Labor are also authoritative and religiously conservative but not quite as many.

We need an actual Liberal and an actual Conservative party as they are two very separate things.

Turnbull made a tweet after he became PM the other day where he talked about those "liberal" values but the conservatives in his party won't let him be liberal. He'll tow the party line. That's why it'd be great if the conservative factions formed their own party to create more political diversity. Many more people would vote for them if it wasn't for the crazies like Bernadi.

We Believe:

In the inalienable rights and freedoms of all peoples; and we work towards a lean government that minimises interference in our daily lives; and maximises individual and private sector initiative

In government that nurtures and encourages its citizens through incentive, rather than putting limits on people through the punishing disincentives of burdensome taxes and the stifling structures of Labor's corporate state and bureaucratic red tape.

In those most basic freedoms of parliamentary democracy - the freedom of thought, worship, speech and association.
In a just and humane society in which the importance of the family and the role of law and justice is maintained.

In equal opportunity for all Australians; and the encouragement and facilitation of wealth so that all may enjoy the highest possible standards of living, health, education and social justice.

That, wherever possible, government should not compete with an efficient private sector; and that businesses and individuals - not government - are the true creators of wealth and employment.

In preserving Australia's natural beauty and the environment for future generations.

That our nation has a constructive role to play in maintaining world peace and democracy through alliance with other free nations.

In short, we simply believe in individual freedom and free enterprise; and if you share this belief, then ours is the Party for you.

https://www.liberal.org.au/our-beliefs

Can't t actually see where it says anything about "traditional" or "conservative" values.

Yep, this is what they actually used to believe and are true liberal values. It'd be nice if they actually conformed to these values though.

The Libs are, and you can't blame them, fishing where the fish are. (Thanks Davo.)

An ageing population that yearns for past glories has no one really to represent them. In stepped Johnny first and then Tony came a long and it was an Andrew Bolt wet dream.

The best bit about this was Bolt's and Jones' massive sook in the papers and on the radio yesterday.

They honestly think they run the country and all of a sudden the rug's been pulled out from under them and they're not as important as they think they are. Funny stuff.

Apparently that other conservative commentator on sky news, Paul Murray, blew up live on air about it all. Would love to see a video of this, apparently it was a beauty.

Ignoring global warming actually destroys the economy, just not within a political cycle and definitely not in the short term paradigm that guides right wing thinking.

Yeah that's pretty much what I meant. Rusty is also agreeing with me in that this is all pragmatism and they just want to stay in power. The more Turnbull can prove that his approach works, the more he'll be able to influence change. I don't think there is enough good will in there until he wins an election.

Sorry, I forgot you are more interested in trolling batfink than having an actual debate on the subject. Carry on.

The interesting side effect to this is that those Liberals holding seats in the inner city electorates whose population tend to hold views of classic liberalism are getting marginalised. We are already seeing traditionally inner-city progressive Labor seats being lost to the Greens for this reason, there's a chance that this is going to start happening to the Liberal seats too.

Didn't say that. Just pointing out the some of the little tricks used in the article to convey the idea the debt problem is all Tony's fault when both sides of the fence need to accept some responsibility.

Ballbagz owned twice in 24 hours

Really? i would have thought he would try and gain some traction well before an election, do you think he will revisit the submarine decision?? be very good good will winner with the left of south Australia

Subs will almost certainly happen and it's to save Pyne. I wouldn't call that one "changing heaps"

well if you decide to build the submarines in South Australia a contract reported to be $ 20-30 billion, i would consider that "heaps" or considerable and very important to the economy of SA and Australia.....

The reason that the Liberal Party has been increasingly defined by social conservatism is simple.

In the past the great dividing philosophy was between the party of capitalism (Liberal Party - economically liberal) and the party of socialism (ALP - not pure socialism to be sure).

However, with the ALP moving to the economic centre under Whitlam (reducing tariffs) and much more aggressively under Keating and Hawke, the Liberal Party's reason for existence (defend capitalism) became increasingly irrelevant because the ALP was preaching from the same economic book.

Historically, Liberal Party voters are arguably more likely to actually be socially liberal compared to the ALP. It was the ALP that brought in the White Australia policy after all.

However, once the ALP's identity moved from purely economic issues in the 1970s to more "socially liberal" issues (driven by their move to the centre economically), the Liberal Party has gradually over time become more defined by social conservatism, sometimes straying into authoritarianism.

No doubt the ALP has a strong social conservative catholic faction within the union movement, but in terms of voter base, the defining difference between the 2 parties is social conservatism VS social progressivism. Economically, there is actually little difference, despite the rhetoric.

This is why we have the crazy situation where the multi-millionaire leader of the party of capitalism is not trusted by his party, and loved by the alleged "socialist" opposition.

Turnbull is a classical liberal in the traditional sense of the word - economically liberal, socially liberal.

The Liberal Party is now economically liberal-ish and socially conservative.

The ALP is economically liberal-ish, and socially progressive (mostly - they do have a socially conservative faction).

you missed an -ish on the conservative for the Liberal party. Malcolm isn't the only one with those sorts of views in his party.

Trolling batfink?

Having an actuall debate?

With batfink?

How delusional are you spud?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

-PB

Yes - you are right. However, I think its important to note that the moderate (eg social liberal) faction at the federal level was dominant up until the early 1980s.

Nowadays it is a distinct minority. Social conservatism is the dominant identifier these days.

Brilliant..

https://instagram.com/textsfrommalcolm/