Murdoch Rags Ltd
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AzzaMarch wrote: Inner City/urban seats - vote ALP/greens Outer suburban/ Rural - Lib/Nats suburban - swinging seats that decide elections.
Hence why "Western Sydney" gets invaded by politicians every federal election. They are the archetypal swinging voters.
I would argue Labor is no longer a left wing party
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AzzaMarch
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Yes, but they are the "centre-left" "progressive" option of the main two parties.
As to whether they are actually left wing or not seems to me a definitional issue. But yeah - I agree they are economically speaking a free market party.
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trident
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Australia is an international embarrassment with its racist border policy Quote:[size=8]UN cancels Australia visit over Border Force laws[/size]Date September 26, 2015 Jane Lee The United Nations has postponed a planned visit to Australia because the federal government cannot guarantee legal immunity to detention centre workers who discuss asylum seekers and migrants. The United Nations' Special Rapporteur on the human rights of migrants, Canada's Francois Crepeau, was due to visit Australia on Sunday for about two weeks to investigate the plight of migrants and asylum seekers in offshore detention centres on Nauru and Manus Island, following an invitation from the federal government. But Mr Crepeau said in a statement that the Border Force Act, which makes it a crime for immigration and border protection workers to disclose information about offshore detention centres, "serves to discourage people from fully disclosing information relevant to my mandate". Under the law, such people face up to two years in prison for recording or disclosing information they obtain from their work. "This threat of reprisals with persons who would want to cooperate with me on the occasion of this official visit is unacceptable," he said. "The Act prevents me from fully and freely carrying out my duties during the visit, as required by the UN guidelines for independent experts carrying out their country visits." It was impossible for Mr Crepeau to carry out his visit as an independent expert for the UN because the Australian government "was not prepared" to meet his request for a written guarantee that anyone he met during his visit would not risk being intimidated or face imprisonment under the law. A spokesman for Immigration Minister Peter Dutton described the postponement as "disappointing and unfortunate". "The government accommodated to the fullest extent possible the requests of the office of the Special Rapporteur as it has with past visits." The spokesman declined to say whether the government would consider offering exemptions to the secrecy provisions of the Australian Border Force Act, saying: "The Special Rapporteur was briefed on the responsibilities and obligations of personnel under relevant Australian law. "Australia remains ready to arrange a future visit by the Special Rapporteur." Mr Crepeau said Australia had also denied his repeated requests for full access to offshore detention centres since March. "I was also extremely disappointed that I was unable to secure the cooperation needed to visit any offshore centre, given the international human rights and humanitarian law concerns regarding them, plus the Australian Senate Inquiries on the offshore detention centres in Nauru and Papua New Guinea, which raised concerns and recommendations concerning these centres," he said. The Special Rapporteur said he had been planning the visit with the Australian government since January. Mr Dutton's spokesman said the Department of Immigration had worked closely with Mr Crepeau's office to organise a programme for his visit, which was to include visits to detention centres, and meetings with key government officials and service providers. But he said the government had no role in organising access to offshore detention centres: "Access to Regional Processing Centres in Papua New Guinea and Nauru is the responsibility of these sovereign nations and needs to be addressed with their governments." Organisations including the Australian Human Rights Commission, UNHCR and Commonwealth Ombudsman, had visited both on and offshore detention centres "without the need to respond in this way," he said. The Human Rights Law Centre's executive director, Hugh de Kretser, said the cancelled visit was "unprecedented for a western liberal democracy". "This is extremely damaging for Australia's reputation – particularly when our human rights record will be reviewed at the UN in November and we're seeking election to the UN Human Rights Council in 2018. It's extremely damaging to our ability to advance our national interest on the world stage," said Mr de Kretser. It was also a "huge missed opportunity" for newly-appointed Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to pursue a "more constructive relationship with the UN". "We urge the Australian Government to urgently provide the necessary assurances to the Special Rapporteur to enable the official visit to take place at a future date." Doctors, and humanitarian workers have previously criticised the Border Force Act which was passed earlier this year with the support of Labor, saying it prevents proper public scrutiny of detention centres in line with their duty of care to asylum seekers. The government has dismissed such claims, saying a separate federal law ensured officials were protected in making "public interest disclosures". But it is unclear which health or medical professionals would be required to comply with the new secrecy provisions. Under the law, workers can only release such information legally if they have permission from the secretary of the department, if they are authorised by law, or if a court or tribunal orders or directs them to do so. The secretary would have to be satisfied that the information would help the person to perform their duties or powers to give them permission to release it. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/un-postpones-australian-visit-over-failure-to-guarantee-protection-of-detention-centre-whistleblowers-from-recrimination-20150926-gjvgm2.html#ixzz3nB78waN1 Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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Excellent news! So glad the xenophobic chickens are finally coming home to roost!
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Muz
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On the "whocaresometer" this UN garbage rates a 0.2 out of 10. Far from being an international embarrassment there are plenty of countries looking at Australia at the moment and saying "why don't we do that?". NOTE: Not a commentary on Australia's border policy so save your rantings for the others.
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batfink
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Munrubenmuz wrote:On the "whocaresometer" this UN garbage rates a 0.2 out of 10.
Far from being an international embarrassment there are plenty of countries looking at Australia at the moment and saying "why don't we do that?".
NOTE: Not a commentary on Australia's border policy so save your rantings for the others.
funny about that, people who rant about something and then when it effects them their thought process changes.....
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AzzaMarch
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I have a real concern with the lack of transparency. The actual policy itself is one thing. But the secrecy laws being passed to hide what is happening is really bad.
If what the govt is sanctioning is something that they want to hide from the public, then it is something they should not be sanctioning.
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paulbagzFC
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benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote: If you want to depth of thought on critical issues that have the greatest affect in the long term, talk to a left wing voter.
:roll: Left wing voters are just as bad as right wing voters, except they seem to think they have moral high ground on a range of issues. Well, the 2013 ABC Vote Compass did show that lefties are, on average, more educated - by extrapolation higher education results in higher levels of critical thinking. An easy association to make when the results would be easily dragged down by hicks and bogans nation wide :lol: Higher education doesn't always make you any more worldly or intelligent. However, do you mean that left wing voters achieve more in the same courses compared to right wing voters? The Vote Compass showed that lefties have higher levels of tertiary education, if that's what you mean. So more left wing voters than right wing voters have a university/TAFE qualification? Well at the very least they went to Uni for a period and picked up some sweet views and opinions of the world. -PB
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BETHFC
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paulbagzFC wrote:benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote: If you want to depth of thought on critical issues that have the greatest affect in the long term, talk to a left wing voter.
:roll: Left wing voters are just as bad as right wing voters, except they seem to think they have moral high ground on a range of issues. Well, the 2013 ABC Vote Compass did show that lefties are, on average, more educated - by extrapolation higher education results in higher levels of critical thinking. An easy association to make when the results would be easily dragged down by hicks and bogans nation wide :lol: Higher education doesn't always make you any more worldly or intelligent. However, do you mean that left wing voters achieve more in the same courses compared to right wing voters? The Vote Compass showed that lefties have higher levels of tertiary education, if that's what you mean. So more left wing voters than right wing voters have a university/TAFE qualification? Well at the very least they went to Uni for a period and picked up some sweet views and opinions of the world. -PB .... and a beard along with a terrible dress sense :lol:
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Muz
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batfink wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:On the "whocaresometer" this UN garbage rates a 0.2 out of 10.
Far from being an international embarrassment there are plenty of countries looking at Australia at the moment and saying "why don't we do that?".
NOTE: Not a commentary on Australia's border policy so save your rantings for the others.
funny about that, people who rant about something and then when it effects them their thought process changes..... I put that there as an observation not an endorsement. Rant away if it makes you happy.
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batfink
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Munrubenmuz wrote:batfink wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:On the "whocaresometer" this UN garbage rates a 0.2 out of 10.
Far from being an international embarrassment there are plenty of countries looking at Australia at the moment and saying "why don't we do that?".
NOTE: Not a commentary on Australia's border policy so save your rantings for the others.
funny about that, people who rant about something and then when it effects them their thought process changes..... I put that there as an observation not an endorsement. Rant away if it makes you happy. what is your observation regarding Suadis being on the UN human rights council???
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Muz
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batfink wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:batfink wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:On the "whocaresometer" this UN garbage rates a 0.2 out of 10.
Far from being an international embarrassment there are plenty of countries looking at Australia at the moment and saying "why don't we do that?".
NOTE: Not a commentary on Australia's border policy so save your rantings for the others.
funny about that, people who rant about something and then when it effects them their thought process changes..... I put that there as an observation not an endorsement. Rant away if it makes you happy. what is your observation regarding Saudis being on the UN human rights council??? I don't follow the UN stuff nor do I think the average man in the street actually gives a shit when the UN says they're not coming because of boat policy hence the above post. Given the choice between no boats and a UN visit I'm guessing the former is more important than the latter to the average punter. As for the Saudis on the security council. Are they on it? They're a bunch of cunce right? Get 'em off? Wouldn't know what you're driving at and don't care but fire away and I'll give you an uninformed opinion MVarsenal style.
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Les Gock
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:benelsmore wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:[quote=benelsmore][quote=Murdoch Rags Ltd] If you want to depth of thought on critical issues that have the greatest affect in the long term, talk to a left wing voter. :roll: Left wing voters are just as bad as right wing voters, except they seem to think they have moral high ground on a range of issues. Well, the 2013 ABC Vote Compass did show that lefties are, on average, more educated - by extrapolation higher education results in higher levels of critical thinking. Critical thinking at university? Reminds me of this... http://www.theonion.com/article/college-encourages-lively-exchange-of-idea-38496College Encourages Lively Exchange Of IdeaBOSTON—Saying that such a dialogue was essential to the college’s academic mission, Trescott University president Kevin Abrams confirmed Monday that the school encourages a lively exchange of one idea. “As an institution of higher learning, we recognize that it’s inevitable that certain contentious topics will come up from time to time, and when they do, we want to create an atmosphere where both students and faculty feel comfortable voicing a single homogeneous opinion,” said Abrams, adding that no matter the subject, anyone on campus is always welcome to add their support to the accepted consensus. “Whether it’s a discussion of a national political issue or a concern here on campus, an open forum in which one argument is uniformly reinforced is crucial for maintaining the exceptional learning environment we have cultivated here.” Abrams told reporters that counseling resources were available for any student made uncomfortable by the viewpoint.
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paulbagzFC
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lol, Australia one of eight to try and oppose observer nations from having their flag at the UN, aka Palestine. -PB
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BETHFC
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paulbagzFC wrote:lol, Australia one of eight to try and oppose observer nations from having their flag at the UN, aka Palestine.
-PB Is Palestine officially a country yet or not? They shouldn't even have a UN membership anyway, violent bastards!!
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Vanlassen
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Not officially by most countries standards. thy have limited recognition and they don't have UN membership.
I only count a place as a country if they have FIFA membership so I would say Palestine is officially a country.
Edited by vanlassen: 2/10/2015 10:01:57 PM
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paulbagzFC
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And thus the TPP has been signed. -PB
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Condemned666
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Peter Garrett should write a rebel song to show K-Rudd who's the badass
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mcjules
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[youtube]Evi4OpC0RN0[/youtube]
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Muz
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Surprised at the first poll this morning. Thought Turnbull would rate better. Typically the polls for preferred PM against Abbot were skewed by Labour people polled saying they hated Abbot and preferred Turnbull. Would be good to see preferred PM broken down by party support and/or intention to vote for said party.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance)
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Muz
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced?
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BETHFC
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Munrubenmuz wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced? This is what I really hate about people. Everything seems to be Australia's fault because we do not provide enough opportunities and we're racist or some nonsense like that. One day we might get to the bottom of the issue if we stop making whities the root of all evil.
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AzzaMarch
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BETHFC wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced? This is what I really hate about people. Everything seems to be Australia's fault because we do not provide enough opportunities and we're racist or some nonsense like that. One day we might get to the bottom of the issue if we stop making whities the root of all evil. Clearly you aren't really listening if you think that people are seriously arguing that "whities" are "the root of all evil". The eminently sensible point being made is that isolating and demonising muslims as a group does not help with anything. Law enforcement need the assistance of the muslim community to combat radicalisation. If we have an atmosphere of blame and fear, muslims will be afraid to get the police involved in anything. We need to stop seeing muslim Australians as "them". We are all in this together, and we need to act that way. That is hardly "blaming whitey". Edited by AzzaMarch: 13/10/2015 09:47:51 AM
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Muz
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AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced? This is what I really hate about people. Everything seems to be Australia's fault because we do not provide enough opportunities and we're racist or some nonsense like that. One day we might get to the bottom of the issue if we stop making whities the root of all evil. Clearly you aren't really listening if you think that people are seriously arguing that "whities" are "the root of all evil". The eminently sensible point being made is that isolating and demonising muslims as a group does not help with anything. Law enforcement need the assistance of the muslim community to combat radicalisation. If we have an atmosphere of blame and fear, muslims will be afraid to get the police involved in anything. We need to stop seeing muslim Australians as "them". We are all in this together, and we need to act that way. That is hardly "blaming whitey". Edited by AzzaMarch: 13/10/2015 09:47:51 AM I hear you but for the sake of the argument there could've been one or two opposing opinions. On your other point plenty of people have hard upbringing and they're not criminals.
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u4486662
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BETHFC wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced? This is what I really hate about people. Everything seems to be Australia's fault because we do not provide enough opportunities and we're racist or some nonsense like that. One day we might get to the bottom of the issue if we stop making whities the root of all evil. Q and A is almost unwatchable now with too much left leaning bias. The "clincher" is the whole "twitter counter" Twitter is the bastion of stupid social media outrage and PC gone bad and a show automatically loses credibility when it promotes twitter. Let me guess, were they linking criticism of religion to racism?
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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u4486662 wrote:BETHFC wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced? This is what I really hate about people. Everything seems to be Australia's fault because we do not provide enough opportunities and we're racist or some nonsense like that. One day we might get to the bottom of the issue if we stop making whities the root of all evil. Q and A is almost unwatchable now with too much left leaning bias. The Conversation was labelled on here yesterday as being left wing biased & of course the ABC as usual gets the label as well. Both government funded organisations (The Conversation until very recently), so not driven to print lies for the sake of profit making. Justifies the statement that facts & reality have a left wing bias (roughly). The kicker for me is the secretive border 'protection' operations - the right wing would rather the people be kept in the dark with less information. Evidence is the enemy of the right wing & lies are its ally.
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Muz
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^^^ Blah blah blah. Doesn't the ABC charter say, in effect, no bias, no position taking, no preaching? At least give the appearance of balance by sticking one person with a different viewpoint on there. A highlight for me was the obfuscation put up by the Muslim fellow defending the Grand Poobah's lack of English in his speech to his Moslem "brothers and sister" in Australia the other day. 18 years in Australia and still can't speak English. Nice assimilation. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to FOBs like my dad was but at least he got on with it and learnt the bloody language. I use to be a lot more tolerant.
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mcjules
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Mediawatch discussed the tone down of language used by both Turnbull and Baird regarding the recent incident. Apparently it's on advice from agencies such as the AFP that the whole "death cult" and "team australia" talk from Abbott was too divisive and it was making their job working with the muslim community more difficult. What was said on Q&A was basically an extension of that. Discussion around the balance of funds between enforcement and community engagement is something that needs to be address (2% of the funds are going to community engagement apparently). Not sure why I'm bothering because there are a lot of intolerant people on here who are either selfish or have an axe to grind against a religion/race/culture. People hear what they want to hear.
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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BETHFC
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AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Sad, but not surprising, how much time is devoted to the discussion of Islamic radicalisation on Q&A. Exceedingly disproportionate to how minuscule the issue is. The right wing fear mongering narrative is working (but us lefties already knew it would in advance) I particularly like all the apologists blaming Australian society for all the Islamic radicalisation. Not one dissenter on the whole panel. Balanced? This is what I really hate about people. Everything seems to be Australia's fault because we do not provide enough opportunities and we're racist or some nonsense like that. One day we might get to the bottom of the issue if we stop making whities the root of all evil. Clearly you aren't really listening if you think that people are seriously arguing that "whities" are "the root of all evil". The eminently sensible point being made is that isolating and demonising muslims as a group does not help with anything. Law enforcement need the assistance of the muslim community to combat radicalisation. If we have an atmosphere of blame and fear, muslims will be afraid to get the police involved in anything. We need to stop seeing muslim Australians as "them". We are all in this together, and we need to act that way. That is hardly "blaming whitey". Edited by AzzaMarch: 13/10/2015 09:47:51 AM It's not a sensible point. We're seen as demonizing them and being racist for not putting their needs higher than others. This post of yours essentially reinforces mine in that we are 'responsible' for improving their welfare. We are responsible for getting them jobs. Treating Muslims differently to anyone else is the problem. We're so bloody scared of offending them in this country due to years of reinforcement from parliament to the media that we're racist and intolerant that most people are probably not interested in the drama. I think we're afraid of the elephant in the room. People get narky about stereotypes but we've had a lot of issues over the last 5 years specifically with Muslim radicals.
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