Murdoch Rags Ltd
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Munrubenmuz wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:Quote:Those conditions include protection of 31,000 hectares of southern black throated finch habitat and $1 million of funding for research into threatened species and protection of Doongmabulla Springs.
“The rigorous conditions will protect threatened species and provide long-term benefits for the environment through the development of an offset package,” Mr Hunt said.
“These measures must be approved by myself before mining can start.” And when you're voted out of office one day you won't care Greg. Say goodbye to both of those things along with the Barrier Reef in time. -PB The dredge spoil component is a mere 1 million cubic metres and will be dumped onshore. For a comparison in Gladstone they dredge 8 million cubes annually. All ports are dredged. It's not a big deal. The Reef is dying off thanks to coal induced climate change - Adani helps speed that up. With the 'Godzilla' El Niño this 'financial' year, expect another substantial percentage to be dead. Permanently. And since right wingers so narrowly and simplistically view the world in terms of dollars and cents, I've heard that the Reef is worth $8B annually to the Australian economy. So when it dies, as it inevitably will do, that's a massive economic loss. Edited by Murdoch Rags Ltd: 16/10/2015 12:58:07 AM
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mcjules
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rusty wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:Quote:NBN Co rolling out “kilometres” of brand new copper to ensure FTTN actually works By Renai LeMay - 14/10/2015 60
news The NBN company is deploying many “kilometres” of brand new copper in some areas to ensure that the Coalition’s Fibre to the Node model functions correctly, the Opposition claimed today, with Telstra’s copper network in such bad condition that up to “90 percent” of the copper needed to be repaired or replaced in some areas.
Labor’s initial model for the NBN project had focused on a near universial deployment of Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) technology, which is the best technology available to serve Australia’s telecommunications needs over the next 50 to 100 years. However, the Coalition has significantly changed the project’s network model, incorporating both the copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus.
The NBN company has previously acknowledged that it will need to remediate some of Telstra’s copper network to successfully deliver the the Fibre to the Node (FTTN) aspect of the so-called ‘Multi-Technology Mix’ — or even replace some copper cables entirely. Fibre to the Node involves deploying fibre partway to customers’ premises from telephone exchanges — and using existing copper for the remainder of the distance from streetside cabinets.
The NBN company will consider in each specific case whether to remediate or replace damaged copper, or whether it will instead deploy other technologies such as Fibre to the Premises, wireless or even satellite access.
The model is popular in Europe, but has a number of technical challenges not found in the more expensive and technically capable FTTP model.
However, in a speech to the Communications Day Melbourne Congress this morning (read the full speech online), Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare said the NBN company was deploying more brand new copper than previously expected.
“I have been talking to some contractors in the field recently to get a feel for how good the copper network is – and how much of it needs work or needs to be replaced. They have told me that NBN’s working assumption is that 10 percent of copper pairs in Fibre to the Node areas will need remediation,” said Clare. “But in places like Newcastle and the Central Coast, closer to 90 percent of the copper pairs have needed work.”
“In some places the copper is so bad it has to be replaced. Replacing old copper … with new copper. One contractor told me in Newcastle and the Central Coast 10 to 15 percent of the copper lines are having lengths replaced.”
“And this is not just happening in Newcastle or the Central Coast. Another contractor told me in Campbelltown in Sydney that NBN has had to recently replace almost 3 kilometres of old copper with new copper.”
Clare said this was the “real MTM — Malcolm Turnbull’s Mess”.
“Massively over budget, behind schedule, a raft of broken promises, an unrealistic roll out plan that doesn’t ramp up until after another election, and dodgy copper that needs to be fixed or is being replaced with more copper.”
“The Australian Labor Party is the party that conceived and started building the NBN. A fibre NBN. We are the party of fibre. The Liberal Party is the party of copper. They sold it. They bought it back. And now they are replacing it with new copper.” :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: -PB 10%? Is that all? The way some of the pro fibre cult were carrying on would have thought the whole network needs replacing. And that equates to roughly 300k premises only, and it's not like they have to replace the copper they just need to repair it and patch it up. The idea that it's going to cost billions to maintain the copper network is bullshit of course. Just obsessed fibre fantastic pulling numbers out of their buttholes to try to justify the non existent commercial case for NBN. Most of the copper network is being replaced anyway, except the last mile. 10- 15% in an area that they expected to have decent copper. The fact that you think maintaining the copper is the main reason why this MTM model is going to cost more to run shows how little you know about the technology :lol:
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mcjules
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Find out what shit you're getting and when here http://www.nbnco.com.au/learn-about-the-nbn/three-year-construction-plan.html
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u4486662
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My suburb is gonna be 2018. boo.
Probably not going to be living there by then.
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BETHFC
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Thanks in part to coal, the environment already is in the process of Personal vehicle trips are terribly inefficient and significantly more damaging to the environment :)
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chillbilly
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u4486662 wrote:My suburb is gonna be 2018. boo.
Probably not going to be living there by then. My suburb is not even on that list, even though all the surrounding ones are.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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BETHFC wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Thanks in part to coal, the environment already is in the process of Personal vehicle trips are terribly inefficient and significantly more damaging to the environment :) Yes, the wilful ignorance of governments & society over the long term effects of oil and unwillingness to factor in whole of life costs, is a key contributor also. It would also be nice if public transport companies were legislated to source renewable energy.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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mcjules wrote:rusty wrote:paulbagzFC wrote:[quote]NBN Co rolling out “kilometres” of brand new copper to ensure FTTN actually works The NBN company is deploying many “kilometres” of brand new copper in some areas to ensure that the Coalition’s Fibre to the Node model functions correctly, the Opposition claimed today, with Telstra’s copper network in such bad condition that up to “90 percent” of the copper needed to be repaired or replaced in some areas.
Labor’s initial model for the NBN project had focused on a near universial deployment of Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) technology, which is the best technology available to serve Australia’s telecommunications needs over the next 50 to 100 years. However, the Coalition has significantly changed the project’s network model, incorporating both the copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus. 10%? Is that all? The way some of the pro fibre cult were carrying on would have thought the whole network needs replacing. And that equates to roughly 300k premises only, and it's not like they have to replace the copper they just need to repair it and patch it up. The idea that it's going to cost billions to maintain the copper network is bullshit of course. Just obsessed fibre fantastic pulling numbers out of their buttholes to try to justify the non existent commercial case for NBN. Most of the copper network is being replaced anyway, except the last mile. 10- 15% in an area that they expected to have decent copper. The fact that you think maintaining the copper is the main reason why this MTM model is going to cost more to run shows how little you know about the technology :lol: Have the Libs stated the ongoing maintenance costs of the copper portion of the network? Over what period of time? Once that period of time is complete, have the Libs provided cost estimates for the inevitable 'stage 2' full fibre upgrade?
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Muz
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chillbilly wrote:u4486662 wrote:My suburb is gonna be 2018. boo.
Probably not going to be living there by then. My suburb is not even on that list, even though all the surrounding ones are. 25mb/s all day every day on the NBN. Thanks K Rudd.
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Muz
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BETHFC wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Thanks in part to coal, the environment already is in the process of Personal vehicle trips are terribly inefficient and significantly more damaging to the environment :) He'll like this. The Galilee has some of the biggest deposits of coal in the world. Unfortunately for coal companies there was no way of getting it out of central/western qld without stumping up for a $2.0 billion rail line to move it from the deposits to the port. The now approved Adani coal mine and the rail line they are building to service it is going to open up the whole basin to dozens of other coal mines to take advantage of. Coal is predicted to be the major power source in Asia until at least 2040. Australia either sells it or they buy dirty brown coal from Indonesia or somewhere else.
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BETHFC
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Munrubenmuz wrote:BETHFC wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Thanks in part to coal, the environment already is in the process of Personal vehicle trips are terribly inefficient and significantly more damaging to the environment :) Coal is predicted to be the major power source in Asia until at least 2040. Ask any tree hugging air head and apparently coal is finished. Some people need to stop reading garbage on the internet and pretending to be experts.
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Muz
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BETHFC wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:BETHFC wrote:Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Thanks in part to coal, the environment already is in the process of Personal vehicle trips are terribly inefficient and significantly more damaging to the environment :) Coal is predicted to be the major power source in Asia until at least 2040. Ask any tree hugging air head and apparently coal is finished. Some people need to stop reading garbage on the internet and pretending to be experts. I'm neither here nor there on coal mines but I did start what was a 4 week contract, on a shitload of cash per day, in an estimating role for that project that stretched out for about 4 months. Made a absolute motza. If I can hitch my wagon to that gravy train again I'm on board. Wooo woo!!!!  I'm all for the environment but the amounts of hoops these poor bastards have had to jump through is ridiculous. The dredging for example. First they were going to dump it in what was, effectively, an underwater desert 40kms from any reef and that was no good despite independent scientists saying it was OK, then they were going to put it in the shittiest swamp and scrub you can imagine and that was no good despite independent scientists saying it was OK, now they're going to dump it in an industrial reserve and they're still whinging. I wouldn't mind betting, given the state of the Qld economy, that Palaszczuk went surreptitiously, to maintain their public opposition, to Greg Hunt and asked to get it approved. It is a MASSIVE shot in the arm to the Qld economy.
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rusty
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mcjules wrote:10-15% in an area that they expected to have decent copper. The fact that you think maintaining the copper is the main reason why this MTM model is going to cost more to run shows how little you know about the technology :lol: The ongoing costs of MTM may be slightly higher but these slightly higher maintenance costs are more than offset by the billions of dollars saved in capital costs, operational costs, quicker rollout schedule and accelerated revenue. That you think FTTP is rolled out faster and cheaper than FTTN or exisitng HFC when there are clear examples all over the world of the exact opposite happening shows how little you know about economics and commerce.
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Murdoch Rags Ltd
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Munrubenmuz wrote:If I can hitch my wagon to that gravy train again I'm on board. Wooo woo!!!!  Hence why heroin & ice should be legalised, since there's a bucketload to be made also, right?
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paulbagzFC
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Ofc initial costs would be cheaper ffs, its fibre optics vs copper :lol: -PB
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mcjules
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rusty wrote:mcjules wrote:10-15% in an area that they expected to have decent copper. The fact that you think maintaining the copper is the main reason why this MTM model is going to cost more to run shows how little you know about the technology :lol: The ongoing costs of MTM may be slightly higher but these slightly higher maintenance costs are more than offset by the billions of dollars saved in capital costs, operational costs, quicker rollout schedule and accelerated revenue. That you think FTTP is rolled out faster and cheaper than FTTN or exisitng HFC when there are clear examples all over the world of the exact opposite happening shows how little you know about economics and commerce. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: We've been over all of this many times. 1. Government don't own the copper already like in other countries 2. The Fibre rollout had already started and they halted/delayed it so they could wreck it. Net result is the rollout will finish exactly the same time
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mcjules
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paulbagzFC wrote:Ofc initial costs would be cheaper ffs, its fibre optics vs copper :lol:
-PB I love it when people defend the indefensible :lol:
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Muz
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:If I can hitch my wagon to that gravy train again I'm on board. Wooo woo!!!!  Hence why heroin & ice should be legalised, since there's a bucketload to be made also, right? Just go to bed tonight with the sure knowledge that not only are they about to commence work on one of the largest coal mines in the world the area undergoing coal extraction will almost certainly be multiple times what's proposed. Not to mention the dozens of other coal mining companies who were just waiting for a rail line to be built.
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sydneycroatia58
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So I'll either get FTTN in Q4 2016 or HFC in HI 2017. No idea which one it will be.
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mcjules
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sydneycroatia58 wrote:So I'll either get FTTN in Q4 2016 or HFC in HI 2017. No idea which one it will be. Do you have foxtel cable or satellite? If you have cable then you'll be getting HFC. If you don't have foxtel, on the poles outside your house if you have cable(s) that look like the lower set  then you'll also be getting HFC If your cables are underground you can probably do the cable internet check on the Telstra/Optus sites to check. Otherwise you're stuck on the rusty specials with the rest of us plebs. Edited by mcjules: 16/10/2015 03:18:10 PM
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paulbagzFC
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My FTTP is above ground :) -PB
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BETHFC
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Murdoch Rags Ltd wrote:Munrubenmuz wrote:If I can hitch my wagon to that gravy train again I'm on board. Wooo woo!!!!  Hence why heroin & ice should be legalised, since there's a bucketload to be made also, right? :lol: left logic.
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damonzzzz
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My old house is right in the boundary for FTTP while my new is just right outside. FFS :lol:
The choices for roll out are awfully confusing. My old place was in a beachy suburb and the rollout just randomly stops on a street a minute drive from where housing will end and the beach are will begin to start. Why not just finish the area off instead of having to come back? I can understand having to pick places to stop/start in landlocked areas but this just seems like a giant waste of time. Edited by damonzzzz: 16/10/2015 08:32:29 PM
Edited by damonzzzz: 16/10/2015 08:38:15 PM
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Carlito
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That list is fucked. I know for a fact im getting the nbn where iluve by the end of the year. :lol:
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rusty
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mcjules wrote:rusty wrote:mcjules wrote:10-15% in an area that they expected to have decent copper. The fact that you think maintaining the copper is the main reason why this MTM model is going to cost more to run shows how little you know about the technology :lol: The ongoing costs of MTM may be slightly higher but these slightly higher maintenance costs are more than offset by the billions of dollars saved in capital costs, operational costs, quicker rollout schedule and accelerated revenue. That you think FTTP is rolled out faster and cheaper than FTTN or exisitng HFC when there are clear examples all over the world of the exact opposite happening shows how little you know about economics and commerce. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: We've been over all of this many times. 1. Government don't own the copper already like in other countries 2. The Fibre rollout had already started and they halted/delayed it so they could wreck it. Net result is the rollout will finish exactly the same time 1. Ownership of the copper has been transferred to NBN Co, for the same NPV that was the original agreement in 2011 2. That's an malicious allegation unsubstantiated by evidence. The rollout speed has increased dramatically under the Liberal government. The idea that they are deliberately slowing down the fibre rollout is nothing but a conspiracy theory.
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rusty
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I'm really looking forward to getting my HFC upgrade in H1 2016. HFC will provide excellent speeds, and I'm thankful I won't be having to wait until I'm old man to get decent internet which would have been the case had we had to wait for fibre.
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paladisious
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damonzzzz wrote:My old house is right in the boundary for FTTP while my new is just right outside. FFS :lol:
The choices for roll out are awfully confusing. My old place was in a beachy suburb and the rollout just randomly stops on a street a minute drive from where housing will end and the beach are will begin to start. Why not just finish the area off instead of having to come back? I can understand having to pick places to stop/start in landlocked areas but this just seems like a giant waste of time. I'd love to see a cross reference of how safe seats are either way to how soon neighborhoods get NBN of any flavour in the major cities . I'm in a very safe Labor part of Melbourne and I certainly won't be holding my breath, same for safe Liberal areas.
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mcjules
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Ah rusty. So full of it :lol:
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rusty
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$4 billion NBN :lol:
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mcjules
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paladisious wrote:damonzzzz wrote:My old house is right in the boundary for FTTP while my new is just right outside. FFS :lol:
The choices for roll out are awfully confusing. My old place was in a beachy suburb and the rollout just randomly stops on a street a minute drive from where housing will end and the beach are will begin to start. Why not just finish the area off instead of having to come back? I can understand having to pick places to stop/start in landlocked areas but this just seems like a giant waste of time. I'd love to see a cross reference of how safe seats are either way to how soon neighborhoods get NBN of any flavour in the major cities . I'm in a very safe Labor part of Melbourne and I certainly won't be holding my breath, same for safe Liberal areas. Let's have a look at the top 10 marginal seats: Barton (NSW) - Lib - H2-2016 McKewen (Vic) - ALP - Q2-2016 Petrie (Qld) - Lib - H1-2016 Eden-Monaro (NSW) - Lib - Feb-16 Dobell (NSW) - Lib - Nov-15 Capricornia(Qld)- LNP - Nov-15 Lingiari (NT) - ALP - Nov-15 (alice springs but that seat pretty much covers all the NT except Darwin) Reid (NSW) - Lib - H1-2017 O’Connor (WA) - Lib - Q4-2016 Lyons (Tas) - Lib - Feb-16 They seem to well looked after :lol:
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