Whatever you say rusty. If you were a libertarian your principles would lead you in very clear directions on this.

And you have the gall to call me a moron :lol:

How ironic.

Libertarianism is this rigid concept where no redistribution at all is allowed and terrorist fighting provisions are evil yet socialism suddenly embraces and holds hands in solidarity with capitalism?

Gimme a break :oops:

Unions Hijack Pyne Press Conference

I'm never a fan of unions at the best of times. However, how can these people be so short sighted? How can they put their faces on TV knowing full well that the unions will protect them whilst killing small businesses across the country?

Good on Mr. Pyne for trying to do the right thing in this instance. While the laws may eventually go through, at least there should be more time to evaluate the consequences.

:lol: you really are my favourite poster in this thread. You're about as libertarian as you are "socialist" :lol:

Couple of responses -
-I don't see what this has to do with socialism.
-Seeing as he is a State Premier, he has no jurisdiction on the formation of refugee policy. So his opinion in this area really has no impact on the actual policy debate.



- Not wanting to get into a debate over this program, but again I don't see what this has to do with govt ownership of the means of production.
- I would dispute the assertion that anything is being "glorified". It is about acceptance of tolerance, and anti-bullying. However, that is by the by. My point is that this is not socialism.



Well, I think you are actually agreeing with me here that this has nothing to do with socialism.

The other point I would make is that the ALP policy on the East-West link was made well and truly clear prior to the last election. So you are disingenuous referring to the popularity of the policy in opinion polls. The fact is that everyone knew going into the election that ALP policy was to cancel the contract. You can hardly blame the govt for implementing a policy they ran the election on.

My own opinion is critical of both sides. There is virtually no transparency about the cost/benefit analysis of infrastructure polcy generally, and I fear that is because not much real cost/benefit analysis is actually undertaken.

I think both the East-West link and the train infrastructure upgrade are probably required. In an era of historically low interest rates, this is actually the time to be building debt - if it is linked to productivity gains, like meaningful infrastructure upgrades are.



Provocative, as in hyperbole? Untrue? Exaggeration?

As I stated, being critical of policy is one thing, same with being critical of a political party. But throwing words around like socialism and Marxism in Australia is ridiculous in my opinion.

I suggest you read up on the legendary Milton Friedman for better understanding of my philosophical position rather than clinging to your condescending mocking tone to deflect your ignorance.

Not ostensibly so but the more socialists can introduce conceptions of equality into state public schools the more they can meddle with children minds into accepting other measures of equality such as economic equality.

You think your views line up with Milton Friedman?

I've always felt you've had a consistent position on things (even if I disagreed with them) but now I'm not so sure.

Scary stuff.

You don't think there's a hidden agenda to safe schools other than ending bullying?

Not really no.

Perhaps we need a similar program in our schools to combat persecution of Christian children by forcing other non Christian kids to put themselves in the shoes of a Christian person. It could be designed by the Catholic church, I'm sure the faux intellectuals would get totally behind that.

Why does anything in support of LGBT rights always get discredited over some made-up political motives?

I am yet to see any agendas other than ensuring support for all groups within the school system.

http://marxistleftreview.org/index.php/contributers-61
Roz Ward has been active in socialist politics in Australia since 2008 and is currently an NTEU delegate at La Trobe University. As a student officer bearer in the UK, she was a leading member of the anti-war movement and LGBTI rights campaigns. She is the author of a chapter in the upcoming book Multicultural Queer Australia.

She's the dude who designed safe schools.

The program is to support LGBT children against the consistent homophobia displayed by Christian and other religious and homophobic children.

If the Christian religion wasn't so uppity, they might learn so humility and accept people for what they are ..... you know..... how their sadistic God figure made them to be? :lol:

But isn't the purpose of safe schools to end bullying rather than promoting LGBT rights? Why is the taxpayer funding social and political activism in the classroom? Christian students are also persecuted in the classroom, should then the taxpayer fund the Catholic Church to promote religious activism in the classroom?

It can be no more damaging than the following:

- Teaching children that we are superior to animals.
- Teaching children that the earth was created exactly the way it is by God.
- Teaching children that evolution is false and that we have no similar traits to animals.
- Teaching children that a drunk called Noah managed to build a boat big enough to hold 2 of every animal.

:lol:

It's both. LGBT rights means that all walks of life have equal rights.

The tax payer funds religious indoctrination by paying Chaplains for schools.

I agree - students should be taught to think for themselves and make their own decisions rather than being indoctrinated by religious and marxist groups to think like them .

Then where is your suspicion about a Christian political agenda in schools then?

I find it disgusting that Safe Schools cops so much vitriol from conservative organ thieves like Bernardi when there has been a religious agenda in our schools for decades no matter how much this country wants to pretend to be secular.

Bernardi has blood on his hands. As does everyone else who killed this program.

One person cannot be used as an example to discredit an entire program? I'll be honest I don't know the background on the creation of the program, only the details of the program in operation.

Are you against any kind of program dedicated to assisting LGBT kids or insecure children who feel they don't fit in?

You honestly think that's what happens in safe school programs? :lol:

-PB

I have an issue with it being called an agenda. It's as dangerous as calling homosexuality curable.

I am interested in knowing what LGBT community ideologies are? From my udnerstanding and research into the matter their main ideology seems to be be yourself, respect the decisions of others and treat others equally ... it would terrible to indoctrinate our children with acceptance, tolerance, respect and understanding of our differences!!

You do also realise that the safe school program also focused strongly on bullying, self harm and other social issues facing school children. It is terrible propaganda that the government is trying to provide tools and options for children, their parents and teachers to deal with such issues!!

If Christian persecution was as much of a problem as gay persecution (or an actual real problem at all) then I would be in favour of that.

In fact, I am not against the history of religions, or comparative religious studies being taught in school if people want.

Understanding that there are a million different religions, and putting them in their various historical contexts, is the best way of exposing the man-made nature of religion itself, and combating brainwashing of children by their parents.

You are falling into the same arguments used to persecute gay people - the talk that by exposing people to the existence of homosexuals is somehow "promoting that lifestyle" is nonsense. I disagree with your premise that people being gay or trans is something that is just freely chosen, that if children are told about the existence of these people that they will just decide to become them.

It's not training kids to "aspire" to it. It is just trying to prevent those people from being vilified.

The high suicide rates of trans people says a lot more about the lack of social acceptance than anything inherently wrong with them. There is a higher rate of suicide amongst gay people than the general population. Are you arguing they are mentally ill as well?

Gender is both a biological fact and a social construct. It's not one or the other.

Men in the 1700s wore wigs and make up. Someone in the 1950s would think they were effeminate and/or gay.

Pre-Christian societies were much more open to same-sex relations without the associated labels that we have these days.

Teaching that all people are worthy of respect, and not vilification or bullying, is perfectly reasonable to me. And acknowledging the existence of different types of gender expression is not promoting it.

Edited by AzzaMarch: 7/4/2016 01:59:53 PM

Being LGBT isn't a lifestyle. This sort of ignorance is what results in issues.

The whole situation turns to shit as soon as we have fucking morons trying to argue sexuality is a choice. Why would anyone choose to be gay?

It's very sad to see what's happening in Wyalla S.A with the potential closure of the steelworks. With the company doubling down during the boom and over-paying for expansion, they're screwed given the fall in price of Iron/Steel.

Huge worry for the town and the families.

But remember, Australia doesn't need mining..................

Agree that it is very sad. But I don't get the line about mining at the end.

The problem is the fall in price of iron/steel. If we had no mining industry wouldn't the price go up as supply reduces?

Steelworks are surely a separate but related industry? Am I misunderstanding your point?

Exactly - you made this point much more clearly and succinctly than I did. :)