If you're a betting person, throw a bit of cash on a hung parliament in July. You're welcome.

Politics is out of control at the moment. The more these over-paid storey tellers talk, the more it's clear they're completely out of touch.

Bout time PNG shut down those detention centers, wonder if Naru will be next.

Absolute shambolic waste of money and violation of rights.

-PB

Good to see Pat Dodson becoming a WA Senator. We need more indigenous representation.

If we go soft and weak on borders the people smugglers will exploit our compassion and weakness to restart the people smuggling trade and send people to their deaths.

The worst thing is roughly only 50% of asylum seekers are found to be genuine refugees, the other 50% are just seeking a better life and are exploiting the weakness and misguided compassion of sympathisers to gain illicit entry into the country at the expense of genuine refugees.

That's why it's really important we don't buckle under the weight of our misguided humanitarian instincts and hand over control of the borders to people smugglers and economic refugees, as it will only lead to more chaos, death and destruction just like last time.

50%?????

Figures I see are generally 80-85%. Where did you get 50% from?

Figures from this parliamentary report say 88%:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1415/AsylumFacts#_Toc413067445

Did you get that from a Liberal Party press release?

There is a difference between mandatory detention and having hidden camps that drive people to commit self-immolation.

Something is clearly f**ked regardless of whether you do or don't support the principle of mandatory detention.

Propaganda :lol:

Possibly something to do with how arduous and expensive the trip is, and that it somehow makes sense for the family's breadwinner (and most likely to be killed) to leave and send for them later? Your point is moot though, it's a war zone - definitionally a valid place to seek asylum from (which is the crux of this issue)


Which "safe" countries? The ones not signed on to the UN refugee convention, in grey below? The ones in green in Europe that are less economically and geographically equipped to help them?

Source


The moment they hit our waters they are our problem and as a developed first world society we are obliged to treat them in a humane manner regardless of whether we grant them asylum or not. The "intellectual" circle jerk around border policy serves nothing other than to entrench the fear of the other in society. That fear is the only emotion that's dictating policy here, and it's directing it to the side you're on.

How do you know its the camps themselves driving them to sefl immolate? Perhaps its the refugee advocates who have given them false hope promising they will be resettled in Australia, causing them to mentally snap. After all the conditions in these facilities are much better than many UN run refugeee camps, and some people have been stuck in those for decades, yet they dont set themselves alight.

its easy to say "something is clearly fucked" yet situation is much less fucked than it was under labor and the greens. Theres clearly a political motivation for trying to derail the governments border policies, its not all crocodile tears and confected concern for asylum seekers.

Seeking asylum doesnt give asylum seekers a right to pick and choose which country they want to resettle in.
When they go into a third country or choose to bypass a UN refugee camp they become an economic migrant, and their journey to the Australian mainland via an illegal method voids their chance to be resettled here. I also point out the UNs antiquated convention doesnt override our local laws, we dont have to pander to the UN and we have complete autonomy over who and how we resettle, not the UN. Many countries dont resettle any refugees and they cop no heat from the UN whereas we rarely receive any praise at all. We are one of the higest resettling countires in the world in aggregate terms so I feel our record speaks for itself despite all the pessimistic cynical media.



Who is to say we dont treat them humanely? The conditions in detention centres are vastly superior to many UN camps where refugees pitch a tent and sleep on dirt. Are the UN treating them inhumanely? The problem is many folks sense if humane treatment extends to the closing all the detention centres immediately and granting everyone an immediate bridging visa in the absense of character and security checks with a path to permanent resettlement. Obviously this sounds nice in theory but in practice causes all kinds of shit; rampant unchecked migration, deaths at sea, community instabilty, rise of right wing parties, increased terrorist threat, increased welfare bill etc etc etc. Utlimately when immigration is controlled by smugglers and asylum seekers earn their citizenship through a cash payment its much more difficult to integrate them into society and embracing our values which can cause a whole another layer of shit. Its probably better to be fearful than naive.

Edited by rusty: 28/4/2016 08:37:26 PM

Edited by rusty: 28/4/2016 08:52:34 PM

rusty is the best example of concern trolling you could ever hope to see.

In most countries the rate is closer to 50% or lower. In Australia its been much higher than this due to people coming by boat and throwing away their identity documents which means decisions are more likely to be based on testimony than hard fact. Thats why people come by boat, because they have much higher chance of getting resettled than if they come by plane.

Of current mob in Manus my understanding is roughly only half were found to be legit refugees.

I am concerned Notor, concerned that if we let bleeding hearts give control of our borders back to people smugglers thousands of lives will tragically be lost again. Enough blood has been spilled.

Refugee lives matters.

"Confected" concern.

Edited by mcjules: 28/4/2016 09:25:48 PM

This is true.

However the biggest problem isn't where we put them. It's what do we do with them after they get here?

What skills do we give these people to integrate into our societies?

I don't really care how many we take providing we have a plan on how to deal with them and how to get them up to scratch and operating as autonomous citizens.

But wouldn't you agree it would be easier to integrate these people if their passage was underpinned by an orderly, coherent, safe, measured humanitarian program, as opposed to the chaos, death, mandatory detention, scuttling of boats and blackmail as witnessed under labor and the greens?

I'm not sure if paying a people smuggler and circumventing our laws by coming through the back door is necessarily a very good way to integrate these people and cultivate respect for our laws and values . After all who do they owe their gratitude to, Australia or the criminals who got them here?

lol Malcolm with the whole "they will not make it to Australia!".

Facepalm.

-PB

That's not as bad as a boatload of people drowning and then responding by shrugging your shoulders and sayings" oh well , these things happen"

They're still coming and they're still drowning lol, we just don't know about it thanks to our Government and their policy of not discussing it with the press.

But by all means keep that noggin of yours in the sand.

-PB

July 2 election. Quote me on it.

What evidence do you have that they're still drowning? Do you really think if boats were still coming that they'd be able to keep it hidden all this time from the press? I suppose America didn't really land on the moon either, and Bush orchestrated the September 11 attacks, and Isis is secretively controlled by the CIA?

So cute :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd say when you have children trying to kill themselves, adults setting themselves on fire, and at least one recorded murder of an camp inmate by a prison guard, then "what do we do with them?" is actually the most pressing concern.

This is the whole point I am trying to make. The govt has locked the media out, has passed laws threatening doctors with prison sentences if they discuss what has happened in their time at the centres.

We have no idea how these people are being treated. That should not be the case in an open society.

The media has more access to actual prisons than these island gulags.

But my guess is - when someone is setting themselves on fire, children are trying to kill themselves, and at least one person has been killed by a guard, then there is likely to be some problems.

Once again, regardless of your opinion on mandatory detention, the fact that the govt has done everything possible to keep what happens on these prison islands hidden, and the fact they have put a media blackout on any boat interceptions etc etc, is disturbing and indefensible.

Not to mention the massive rape issues.

-PB

If a refugee dies at sea and nobody is around to report on it, did it really happen?

Cute is you still trying to defend this government.

-PB

But if these detainees aren't raped, trying to commit suicide or setting themselves alight. People will get on boats and drown. You bleeding hearts don't care about people drowning!

Fair call.

However, it's still a big issue. I can't find much info on what actually happens to processed refugees.

Rape is a massive issue where these people are coming from too......