Yet they are characterised by their success.

I think having a proper job and making a practical contribution to society in the form of labour is fundamental to the development of the intellect. Some so called intellects and academics have never done proper work and become enraptured by their own supposed genius and ideological bubbles, which fails to be tempered by experience and economic struggle.

That Turnbull has succeeded in the real world makes him a far stronger candidate to be an successful PM than some hoity toity dillatante who can't even tie his shoe laces.

And the Wilfully Ignorant Party is off and running with their 'Stop The Brown People' fear mongering tv advertising

to be fair Shorten during his speech today was ramping up the rhetoric on boat people.

Regrettably neither major party are offering an alternative on this. I did hear that one party is planning on increasing the humanitarian intake (the "legal" way) though.

Not good enough for me.

It has gotten quite ugly, but both major parties are simply playing to the majority. As a point of difference, on Labor's side I would say they are doing it regretfully, ensuring its something they don't lose votes on. I can't see it ever changing.

I think the bigger regret is having open borders which will lead to thousands of meaningless deaths at sea and a massive stimulus grant to the people smugglers. Inevitably it was cause another bout a border chaos, and once our compassion and sobbing has all dried up, reality will hit hard and we will close our borders, just like Europe is now doing including many lefty nations. At least with the Liberals they rule with their heads not a box of Kleenex tissues and a candle.

That's definitely true for some members of the Labor party but selling out principles to win an election is a tactic I don't like. Of course the Libs do that far more regularly but that's beside the point.

I just saw Albanese on Lateline and when the questions about what Labor are going to do about Asylum Seekers was raised it was an absolute train wreck. It was never going to be anything else because he had to walk the tightrope of not criticising their policy but try and make it look like they were going to be more "compassionate" for his highly progressive electorate.

This last line sum it up perfectly. Welcome to reality.

The least compassionate thing you can do outsource your immigration program to people smugglers and lure people to their deaths. Chaos, dysfunction and stuffing people in leaky boats like cattle are not hallmarks of compassion.

The left simply don't want to admit they got it wrong on asylum seekers, and the government got it right. It must so be humiliating for them to be morally outwitted by a conservative party. It's more about saving face and trying to embarrass the government than it is about their faux compassion for refugees.

Edited by rusty: 10/5/2016 08:58:10 AM

I don't think that makes it any better. In fact it's worse.

We are taxed less than the OECD average mate. Please show me something to indicate this is not true.

You throw around grand generalisations like "we are very highly taxed" and "our government is inefficient", without providing any basis for this.

When I point out that tax as a % of GDP is lower than the OECD average, you say that somehow this is because of a "distortion" due to having high GDP per capita, even though other countries with similar GDP per capita numbers tax a higher proportion of the economy than we do.

Then you say that you are only looking at personal income tax, and as evidence post an article which shows Australia at 17th out of 25 listed countries.

You go on about expenditure and give us motherhood statements essentially saying "increasing debt is bad" - well thank you Sherlock Holmes, what a meaningful statement.

You provide no context in your statements. How about the fact that we have the lowest level of debt by far of the major industrialised nations? Less than 20% of GDP vs 80-100% in comparable economies?

As I am stating for the umpteenth time - we have a revenue problem due to the decline in mining royalties, and the narrowing of the tax base due to the goodies Howard gave away in his last 2 terms. This is gradually being addressed, and has been addressed by both sides when they were in govt (eg getting rid of some of the Family Tax benefits - alp, reducing beneficial taxation rates for super - Libs).

We do have a medium-long term expenditure issue, but this is also being addressed with things like increasing the retirement age, closing loopholes.

What we most certainly DO NOT have is a short term budget issue. Our economy is slowing, hence the RBA reducing interest rates last month.

If anything, with interest rates so low, the govt should be spending more on infrastructure like the NBN to increase the productive capacity of the economy.

Debt in and of itself is not bad. It is dependent on how the debt was accrued and how it is used. If we were in deficit just to fund day-to-day spending then that is a problem, if we increase debt to fund infrastructure you are increasing the capacity to pay that debt.

Your arguments are simplistic and inaccurate. You need a more nuanced understanding of how government, and economics, works.

Rusty mate, you're getting boring. The "left" don't want people smugglers and people drowning either. It's pretty sad that you think you've got an airtight argument on this and keep parroting the same stupid strawman.


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As i stated before those figures are thin and don't tell the full story. Tax as a % of GPD is relatively low to other countries, the primary reasons being a low sales tax (10% as opposed to 20%+ for high taxing countries) and our income tax system is among the most progressive in the world, meaning those at the top of the income band pay nearly all the taxes while the bottom 50% pay nearly no net tax. If you are a high income earner relative to the OECD we are a high taxing country, if you are jobless , part time worker or low to medium wage earner relative to the OECD we are a low taxing country, and there are a far more of the latter than the former.

If we want to look at raising taxes and being more like the OECD average, we are going to have to look at lowering the tax free threshold and raising GST to 15% with no low income offsets.

And what happens to the low income earners who get hit the hardest?

Out into the streets?

What about the extra costs involved in looking after such people?

-PB

You could say the same thing about the tobacco excise.

Tax rich people and smokers more. It's the political answer for everything.

Which part? The Anal Sex or the Drugs? Or both? :lol:

Edited by Aikhme: 10/5/2016 10:40:44 AM

Well he is self made, and knows how to run a business. He understands, that money spent should equal or be less than money received.

Basic fundamentals which seem to be missing with Labor and Greens.

So you obviously believe that Australia would just let anyone in. Open the flood gates to 50,000 illegal economic refugees and let 1,200 perish at sea?

There was a guy on Q&A last night who was the head of The Australian Industry Group who said we are in fact the second highest taxed nation within the OECD.

I believe he was referring to Company Tax.

He made it clear that this has negative effects on foreign investment into Australia, and consequently jobs.

As for personal income tax, he also said that Australian Workers were highly taxed as well.

So then, we should outsource Australia's Immigration to crime gangs and syndicates, resulting in many deaths at sea.

Don't Zzzzzzzz us! Those who die at sea won't have that luxury anymore.

They would rather than than those poor brown people being forced to resettle among those terrible slanty eyed countries.

Problem is, the rich people are at the top of the Pyramid's Apex. There is simply not enough of them to raise the required revenue.

But as a principle, everyone supports this concept. However, Company Tax rates are excessive in this country and that is also hurting the lower end because it is a handbrake on jobs.

And with quotes like this, you can see how the fear mongering of the Wilfully Ignorant Party works.
Not surprising, since psychological & neurological research shows that right wingers are inherently more fearful people.

If you get a chance, watch 7.30 from last night. Penny Wong mentioned how there was a form of agonising over the issue of boat turn-backs at one of their conferences around the time the issue was hotter.
I don't endorse it, I am just pointing out that it wasn't a callous decision on Labor's behalf, per se.


Edited by Murdoch Rags Ltd: 10/5/2016 12:01:50 PM

Oh I see, so even though they endorsed the coalition policy warts and all, because they "agonised" over the decision and went through a few boxes of Kleenex, they get a human rights medal? :lol: :lol:

Funniest thing I've read all week.

No one is going to get funding or academic career progression to do a study which finds left wingers are inherently more naive.


Edited by rusty: 10/5/2016 12:16:47 PM

And you talk of a fear campaign?

Always falling over themselves to come up with every stupidity such as Safe Schools.

Yes let's open our borders and roll the red carpet and rack up record levels of debt.