Haha thats like arguing Britney Spears is the best artist because she won a grammy

Fuck me, mentalities like this are just blatant willful ignorance. Education is wasted on people like you.

1. Bullshit. when labor got booted out FTTP connections were under 200,000, and half of those were service class zero. Under the coalition there are now well over 1 million FTTP connections RFS.
2. Bullshit. NBN Co gave neither Telstra or Optus any additional money to aquire their copper and HFC networks, beyond the staggering $11 billion Conroy gave them for doing nothing. Tesltra get $1.6 billion to expand the HFC footprint, but HFC is by a long way the cheapest mode of technology about 1/4 cost of FTTP, rolled much quicker and offers the same performance, so this is actually smart business and cheaper for taxpayer.
3. You dont know when they will need to upgrade the network. Some speed demons out there think demand for bandwidth will forever increase but there will be a point where a certain speed is fast enough for most practical consideration. We dont know what that point is yet, we do know that FTTN can provide speeds of at least 50mbps and with other improvement such as vectoring and g fast can easily exceed 100mbps. Any predicted future requirement beyond this is based on speculation rather than substance.

Why is it wilfull ignornace ? Australia is the only country in the world where the taxpayer is fully funding a nationwide broadband network. To pass some of the costs onto the end user who may require and benefit from extra capacity is financially prudent and fair. If youre going to demand every house has FTTP you might as well demand taxpayers fund a new computer and data plan for every household as well, to stimulate a tsunami of social and economic benefits.

You completely miss the point mate, they purposely changed the tech stack to something objectively inferior and they've failed on all their promises.

Because having a user pay fiber connection system is a practical nightmare for nearly everyone and misses half the point of building a sufficient fiber network in the first place. New growth markets are hardly opened to a level worthy of the initial investment if only a limited percentage of the population has access to the increased speeds. It wasn't just put forward so people can watch Netflix in HD.

Why bother with innovation to create new Internet based services if only the rich can make full use of them?

The taxpayer is funding it because the current state of the internet in Australia is atrocious, thanks to the Private sector sitting on it's arse rather than reinvest in their networks. Hardly an outrageous suggestion considering that's how most public infrastructure projects get off the ground.

1. The FTTP ramp up was years behind schedule, something like 2 million premises from original forecasts. If FTTP were allowed to continue it would have finished about 5 years late drmatically increasing peak funding and slowing cash inflows. Labors NBN commercial plan was predicated on a return of about 7% which wouldve had Conroy wearing red underpants on his head in the end.
2. HFC offers comparbale performance to FTTP. For all its bells and whisles FTTP is only as good as the backhaul. There are full fibre customers with rubbish connections precisely for this reason, even on 100mbps plans we hear of folks getting Adsl like speeds.
3. Give line remediation and performance boosts like g fast 100mbps or faster is possible in the real world too. "Mostly great" is good enough for the taxpayer, much of what affects peformance happens across the entire internet, the last mile is not the be all and end all. Giving everyone a 1GBPs wont necessarily improve productivty relative to Fttn.

This is not looking good at all for the ellenpee. Plenty of legs to run in this yet.
Malcolm is not going to come out of this well.......

1. Yes instead we get the same thing but with MTM (Multi Technology Mix Malcolm Turnbull's Mess)
2.We haven't gotten even close to the limits of what fibre can offer in terms of speed. Yes it's comparable to the current (and previous) planned offerings of the NBN but even that will one day won't be sufficient. That's ignoring the costs of running and maintaining the HFC network as well of course. I alluded to the backhaul being an issue, the Libs have fucked that up too.
3. g.fast is capable of gigabit on extremely short copper lines less than 100m (really fibre to the basement only). Seeming runs in the FTTN model NBN are rolling out can be up to 700m, lots of people will never get even close to those speeds. I agree 1Gbps would be "mostly great" for everyone, let's build the network properly!

Honestly I don't need a paper pusher inside Telstra who occasionally talks to some engineers to misinterpret what they tell him and post this rubbish.

There are plenty of ways of improving the interent without throwing $50 billion + taxpayer funds at it. Most countries upgrading their networks are being lead by the private sector with government subisidsing the roll out, minimising taxpayer transfers and risk while reaping the economic and social benefits. If you remeber the Nbn was initally going to be led by the private sector but Conroy decided pork barrelling $50 billion + tapxayer funds into securing his legacy was more important than funding vital infrastructure projects like Crr and metro rail,

The idea that FTTP will open new growth markets that will justify its initital investment is just speculation. Where is the business case supporting this analysis? I can certainly see why it would have intuitive appeal but surely thats not a good enough reason to embark on the nations biggest ever infrastructure project? So far it seems netflix HD is the big winner out of the NBN, not sure what the economic and social benefits are.

Although it's a dead heat for this poll, the key is the note on MacArthur - Libs hold this by over 11%. This would be an unprecedented swing against for a first term government.
The other key note is Turnbull's popularity continues to dive (he is in net negative territory on every poll) and Shorten's continue to rise, such that the preferred PM gap is only 10 points (it was over 40 when Turnbull took over).
I think an 8 week campaign will work in Labor, not Liberal's favour.
Ipsos Fairfax poll is out tomorrow. Newspoll mid-week.

$50 billion dollar tax cut to businesses = has to be great! No evidence required
$50 billion dollar investment in infrastructure = boo where's the business case? reckless government spending etc

1. Errr no we dont get the same thing. Malcolms MTM is at most a few months behind schedule, apparently enough to send its opponents into a frenzy. Conroy's NBN on the other hand would have been delivered about 5 years late. There is no comparison.
2. The running and maintenance costs of HFC are negligbile compared to the capital costs of FTTP. The interest on the savings alone would pay for that and then some . Again its pure speculation if and when we will need speeds > 100mbps, that kind of connection can simultaneously steam multiple 4K videos in a househould so its difficult to fathom what kind of future applications will require more speed than that, and what the economic and social benefits of that would be, if any.
3. If you have a look at the latest G fast developments they can now achieve ultra fast speeds on much longer loops, around 300 metres from the cabinet. It's a new technology too so as it improves it will be able to extend its range further. An Israeli company has also delivered a chip that can provide upstream performance of 750mbps on g.fast.

Most countries in Asia and the OECD are cutting company tax, and at the same time investing in a broad range of infrastructure not pork barreling it into one area to secure the legacy one of its ministers.

1. They promised it would be done by 2016 :lol:
2. Everything you post is speculation. The old "people are only going to use it to stream porn/netflix" argument is just that old. Will it be used for that? Sure but even then, 4K streams are 35-45 Mbps for 25fps and 48-60Mbps for 50ps. Not really much headroom there for multiple streams :roll: TVs and associated equipment are coming out with 8K resolution so expect those to roughly double again.
3. There's a reason why countries are going away from FTTN after having it for years. If G.fast was the answer they'd be sticking tight to it. These lab tests never match what happens in the field, especially on a copper network that has been neglected as badly as Telstra's has.

Most countries in Asia and the OECD have significantly better broadband :lol: If only Howard didn't sell off both the retail and wholesale networks (and to the same company no less). We've been suffering for years as a consequence.

so much this. The phillipines has superfast internet and has had for roughly a decade or more. All due to the fwct the government knew when to actually build infrastructure for the future and not the past.

You mean how connecting each house to FTTP spiraled from $2700 per house to $3600 per house under the Labor Plan.

This may be true in the twitter-sphere and tech blogs, but not in the real world with the average tax payer.

Those who talk about Critical Thinking, always seem to think they are the best at it, whilst all those who disagree with them are incapable of it.

It's just there standard practice.

Exactly!

At $3700 per house, they can fork out the extra $1300 in cost blow outs per household.

Do you see what I mean.

As soon as someone puts a rational argument forward based on responsible fiscal management as we simply don't have the money to waste, they are labelled once again as uneducated and that "educated is wasted" on them because they don't like it and can only sulk in their little corner so that everyone feels sorry for them. :roll:

It's sheer unacy when most households are happy enough with ADSL2+ speeds.

Only a few geek heads want huge speeds of 100Gb/sec because its a dick measuring exercise.

I can understand a few people might find it useful but the average Joe couldn't care less. Those who want mega speeds can fund it themselves.

Businesses are taxed at a marginal rate of 30%

We are one of the highest considering the Asia Pacific average is 22%.

It is well needed in order to maintain competitiveness.

:lol: critical thinking :lol:

And now its come out that the NBNCo person who was part of the raid took photos of confidential documents :lol:

Oh and Sky News were on site prior to the raids to get the exclusive :lol:

Can't make this shit up :lol:

-PB

And I see rusty has gone back to full retard on the NBN :lol:

Really have to go through ALL of this again ffs.

Just go copy paste your usual bullshit from 100+ pages ago.

-PB

ADSL2+ speeds, which most households can't even get :lol:

Try giving them 50mbps and see if they ever want to go back to shitting sub-10mbps crap quality copper based connections.

100Gb/sec, fmd, pull the other one mate :lol:

-PB

They do have better broadband, but they've managed it with minimal public funding. Their public funding goes into other things, like infrastructure. Australia is worlds best practice in how not to do broadband.

I reckon if you give everyone a Ferrari they probably wont want to go back to their five seater sedan or hatch, but that doesn't mean government should go out and buy everyone a Ferrari.