BETHFC
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AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:Richard Di-Natale speaks so well and offers his policies without the need to swipe at his opposition. I think he's doing himself a dis-service being leader of the greens who are dragged down by eco-warriors.
I've listed in detail my issues with the Greens policies (I fully agree with more than I disagree with), but until they become a little more reasonable with some of their environmental and financial policies I just can't bring myself to vote for them. It's a shame because Di-Natale is smart, well spoken and articulate with the points he makes. No 3 word slogans, not promoting his policies by attacking others. You have to remember that as a minor party (eg not an alternative govt), it is much more in their interest to be more "ideologically pure" than to compromise and put off their base. The perfect example of what can happen to minor parties who are seen to have lost their purity is the collapse of the Australian Democrats after passing the GST. They were wiped out within 2 elections. If you look at the example of Greens parties in Europe, if the Greens here ever got big enough to be part of govt in a coalition etc, they will moderate their position on many policies. That's their problem though. Their rigid ideology alienates people because their core ideology (the environment) in many respects is just ridiculous. I get that it's what these parties are all about but it's frustrating given how many positive (and progressive) policies the Greens actually have. By pandering to their environmental wing, they look like idealists rather than serious alternatives. With a personality as likeable as Di-Natale who presents himself and his policies so well, they could really be doing much better if only they could be more reasonable.
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AzzaMarch
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BETHFC wrote:AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:Richard Di-Natale speaks so well and offers his policies without the need to swipe at his opposition. I think he's doing himself a dis-service being leader of the greens who are dragged down by eco-warriors.
I've listed in detail my issues with the Greens policies (I fully agree with more than I disagree with), but until they become a little more reasonable with some of their environmental and financial policies I just can't bring myself to vote for them. It's a shame because Di-Natale is smart, well spoken and articulate with the points he makes. No 3 word slogans, not promoting his policies by attacking others. You have to remember that as a minor party (eg not an alternative govt), it is much more in their interest to be more "ideologically pure" than to compromise and put off their base. The perfect example of what can happen to minor parties who are seen to have lost their purity is the collapse of the Australian Democrats after passing the GST. They were wiped out within 2 elections. If you look at the example of Greens parties in Europe, if the Greens here ever got big enough to be part of govt in a coalition etc, they will moderate their position on many policies. That's their problem though. Their rigid ideology alienates people because their core ideology (the environment) in many respects is just ridiculous. I get that it's what these parties are all about but it's frustrating given how many positive (and progressive) policies the Greens actually have. By pandering to their environmental wing, they look like idealists rather than serious alternatives. With a personality as likeable as Di-Natale who presents himself and his policies so well, they could really be doing much better if only they could be more reasonable. Their core voting, membership, and funding base is environmentalists. Their party name is "The Greens", I don't think they will change their environmental policies! They aren't so much "pandering to the environmental wing", that is actually their core supporter base. They aren't funded by big business or big unions, so they can't just ditch that aspect of the party. The only reason they have really become the 3rd party is the demise of the Australian Democrats. Depending on what happens with Nick Xenophon's party, they could fill the Australian Democrats "keep the bastards honest" role, and the Greens revert to the 6-7% of the vote they used to get.
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Aikhme
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Soft News wrote:Aikhme wrote:AzzaMarch wrote:The more economic independence women have, the higher the divorce rate is.
That should indicate to you why divorce rates are lower amongst the conservative, and the religious. They lack the financial resources and/or support networks to leave an unhappy marriage.
Why is divorce automatically thought of as bad anyway? You know, one of the greatest stereotypes is that Greeks and Italians are more mysogynist. That is not true. Australian society is more mysogynist. Women in our culture are a lot more equal than Australian Women. Europe has a better 'male-female social accord' than Australia does. Fact. Yes I know! Isle aye have a lave when an Aussie tries to tell me that women in Australia are more independent than in Europe. Australia is a very sexist country and women are more independent in Europe, including Greece and Italy. It's about time they got a reality check.
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Glenn - A-league Mad
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AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:Richard Di-Natale speaks so well and offers his policies without the need to swipe at his opposition. I think he's doing himself a dis-service being leader of the greens who are dragged down by eco-warriors.
I've listed in detail my issues with the Greens policies (I fully agree with more than I disagree with), but until they become a little more reasonable with some of their environmental and financial policies I just can't bring myself to vote for them. It's a shame because Di-Natale is smart, well spoken and articulate with the points he makes. No 3 word slogans, not promoting his policies by attacking others. You have to remember that as a minor party (eg not an alternative govt), it is much more in their interest to be more "ideologically pure" than to compromise and put off their base. The perfect example of what can happen to minor parties who are seen to have lost their purity is the collapse of the Australian Democrats after passing the GST. They were wiped out within 2 elections. If you look at the example of Greens parties in Europe, if the Greens here ever got big enough to be part of govt in a coalition etc, they will moderate their position on many policies. That's their problem though. Their rigid ideology alienates people because their core ideology (the environment) in many respects is just ridiculous. I get that it's what these parties are all about but it's frustrating given how many positive (and progressive) policies the Greens actually have. By pandering to their environmental wing, they look like idealists rather than serious alternatives. With a personality as likeable as Di-Natale who presents himself and his policies so well, they could really be doing much better if only they could be more reasonable. Their core voting, membership, and funding base is environmentalists. Their party name is "The Greens", I don't think they will change their environmental policies! They aren't so much "pandering to the environmental wing", that is actually their core supporter base. They aren't funded by big business or big unions, so they can't just ditch that aspect of the party. The only reason they have really become the 3rd party is the demise of the Australian Democrats. Depending on what happens with Nick Xenophon's party, they could fill the Australian Democrats "keep the bastards honest" role, and the Greens revert to the 6-7% of the vote they used to get. The Democrats really disappeared didnt they. I havnt seen or heard a sound bite from them since Natasha Stott Despoja (sp?) when she was the darling of ABC comedy talk shows.
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rusty
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None of the greens policies stand up to scrutiny. Like socialism they succeed in theoretical universe but in the real one all their policies would lead to ruin and devastation.
The major problem with the greens is they are simply just anti business, anti private wealth, pro debt and anti economic growth, and without these key ingredients everything that it underpins, education, health etc society would crumble.
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Aikhme
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AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:AzzaMarch wrote:BETHFC wrote:Richard Di-Natale speaks so well and offers his policies without the need to swipe at his opposition. I think he's doing himself a dis-service being leader of the greens who are dragged down by eco-warriors.
I've listed in detail my issues with the Greens policies (I fully agree with more than I disagree with), but until they become a little more reasonable with some of their environmental and financial policies I just can't bring myself to vote for them. It's a shame because Di-Natale is smart, well spoken and articulate with the points he makes. No 3 word slogans, not promoting his policies by attacking others. You have to remember that as a minor party (eg not an alternative govt), it is much more in their interest to be more "ideologically pure" than to compromise and put off their base. The perfect example of what can happen to minor parties who are seen to have lost their purity is the collapse of the Australian Democrats after passing the GST. They were wiped out within 2 elections. If you look at the example of Greens parties in Europe, if the Greens here ever got big enough to be part of govt in a coalition etc, they will moderate their position on many policies. That's their problem though. Their rigid ideology alienates people because their core ideology (the environment) in many respects is just ridiculous. I get that it's what these parties are all about but it's frustrating given how many positive (and progressive) policies the Greens actually have. By pandering to their environmental wing, they look like idealists rather than serious alternatives. With a personality as likeable as Di-Natale who presents himself and his policies so well, they could really be doing much better if only they could be more reasonable. Their core voting, membership, and funding base is environmentalists. Their party name is "The Greens", I don't think they will change their environmental policies! They aren't so much "pandering to the environmental wing", that is actually their core supporter base. They aren't funded by big business or big unions, so they can't just ditch that aspect of the party. The only reason they have really become the 3rd party is the demise of the Australian Democrats. Depending on what happens with Nick Xenophon's party, they could fill the Australian Democrats "keep the bastards honest" role, and the Greens revert to the 6-7% of the vote they used to get. These minor parties are a huge nuisance. When will Australians ever learn. We have had 5 PMs in 6 years. All this instability is like an Aircraft flying without a pilot. A Government needs a mandate to govern and pass its policies, budgets and laws and if people don't like it, they can vote them out at the next election. We are sabotaging and shooting ourselves in the foot by voting minor parties and independents. The end result could be chaos!
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Aikhme
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rusty wrote:None of the greens policies stand up to scrutiny. Like socialism they succeed in theoretical universe but in the real one all their policies would lead to ruin and devastation.
The major problem with the greens is they are simply just anti business, anti private wealth, pro debt and anti economic growth, and without these key ingredients everything that it underpins, education, health etc society would crumble.
They have far more serious agendas as written in the Marxist handbook. The agenda is to break society and the Nuclear family. Once we are all broken and weak, with no social fabric or community, they Socialist agenda can be fully implemented.
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BETHFC
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rusty wrote:None of the greens policies stand up to scrutiny. Like socialism they succeed in theoretical universe but in the real one all their policies would lead to ruin and devastation.
The major problem with the greens is they are simply just anti business, anti private wealth, pro debt and anti economic growth, and without these key ingredients everything that it underpins, education, health etc society would crumble.
So you think taxing soft drinks is a bad idea to curb childhood obesity? So you think having a firm RET is a bad idea? Is having 100% renewable energy by 2050 unrealistic? Come on Rusty, play the policies not the party name.
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Glenn - A-league Mad
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Aikhme wrote:
These minor parties are a huge nuisance.
When will Australians ever learn. We have had 5 PMs in 6 years. All this instability is like an Aircraft flying without a pilot. A Government needs a mandate to govern and pass its policies, budgets and laws and if people don't like it, they can vote them out at the next election.
We are sabotaging and shooting ourselves in the foot by voting minor parties and independents. The end result could be chaos!
But thats the point of voting isnt it. Vote for the candidate that best represents your values. If the major parties policies dont represent you then you need an alternative. If the Liberals could govern without the threat of losing their billions in corporate funding they could probably win with a mandate. Independents and minor parties are an important function of our democratic society.
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BETHFC
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Scott Morrison on gay MarriageJust a little dose of reality for those who are moronic enough to think that the LGBTI community actually discriminates against others :lol:
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Aikhme
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Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:Aikhme wrote:
These minor parties are a huge nuisance.
When will Australians ever learn. We have had 5 PMs in 6 years. All this instability is like an Aircraft flying without a pilot. A Government needs a mandate to govern and pass its policies, budgets and laws and if people don't like it, they can vote them out at the next election.
We are sabotaging and shooting ourselves in the foot by voting minor parties and independents. The end result could be chaos!
But thats the point of voting isnt it. Vote for the candidate that best represents your values. If the major parties policies dont represent you then you need an alternative. If the Liberals could govern without the threat of losing their billions in corporate funding they could probably win with a mandate. Independents and minor parties are an important function of our democratic society. That is all misrepresented. The Liberals don't get Billions in corporate funding. They get some funding from business, and usually the same entities also fund Labor. On top of that Labor get millions from the Unions in funding. Overall, Labor get more funding by a long shot.
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Aikhme
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BETHFC wrote:Scott Morrison on gay MarriageJust a little dose of reality for those who are moronic enough to think that the LGBTI community actually discriminates against others :lol: He never said the LGBTI community discriminate against others. He said that he identifies with the LGBTI community because of his conservative views. He gets discriminated and verbally insulted with false and hyperbolic innuendos. And it is true. I have experienced the same verbal crap on this forum. Edited by Aikhme: 23/6/2016 02:45:33 PM
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BETHFC
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Aikhme wrote:BETHFC wrote:Scott Morrison on gay MarriageJust a little dose of reality for those who are moronic enough to think that the LGBTI community actually discriminates against others :lol: He never said the LGBTI community discriminate against others. He said that because of his conservative views, he gets discriminated and verbally insulted with false and hyperbolic innuendos. And it is true. He compared his experience with the experiences those in the LGBTI experience. They're not even remotely relatable and it just shows what a pompous idiot he is.
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Aikhme
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BETHFC wrote:Aikhme wrote:BETHFC wrote:Scott Morrison on gay MarriageJust a little dose of reality for those who are moronic enough to think that the LGBTI community actually discriminates against others :lol: He never said the LGBTI community discriminate against others. He said that because of his conservative views, he gets discriminated and verbally insulted with false and hyperbolic innuendos. And it is true. He compared his experience with the experiences those in the LGBTI experience. They're not even remotely relatable and it just shows what a pompous idiot he is. He was actually trying to be sympathetic to LGBTI by also saying that he as a Conservative experience similar verbal abuse as the LGBTI.
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socceroo_06
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Aikhme wrote:Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:Aikhme wrote:
These minor parties are a huge nuisance.
When will Australians ever learn. We have had 5 PMs in 6 years. All this instability is like an Aircraft flying without a pilot. A Government needs a mandate to govern and pass its policies, budgets and laws and if people don't like it, they can vote them out at the next election.
We are sabotaging and shooting ourselves in the foot by voting minor parties and independents. The end result could be chaos!
But thats the point of voting isnt it. Vote for the candidate that best represents your values. If the major parties policies dont represent you then you need an alternative. If the Liberals could govern without the threat of losing their billions in corporate funding they could probably win with a mandate. Independents and minor parties are an important function of our democratic society. That is all misrepresented. The Liberals don't get Billions in corporate funding. They get some funding from business, and usually the same entities also fund Labor. On top of that Labor get millions from the Unions in funding. Overall, Labor get more funding by a long shot. As a libertarian, I want nothing more than the current liberal government to be torn apart. They are not true liberals nor do they express classical liberal ideology. They are a mishmash of conservatives and neo-liberals who are responsible, as is Labor, for bloating Government responsibility and suppressing civil liberty.
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BETHFC
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Aikhme wrote:BETHFC wrote:Aikhme wrote:BETHFC wrote:Scott Morrison on gay MarriageJust a little dose of reality for those who are moronic enough to think that the LGBTI community actually discriminates against others :lol: He never said the LGBTI community discriminate against others. He said that because of his conservative views, he gets discriminated and verbally insulted with false and hyperbolic innuendos. And it is true. He compared his experience with the experiences those in the LGBTI experience. They're not even remotely relatable and it just shows what a pompous idiot he is. He was actually trying to be sympathetic to LGBTI by also saying that he as a Conservative experience similar verbal abuse as the LGBTI. Which is damaging because he's so far off the mark its not funny. His experience is nothing like theirs.
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SocaWho
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Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Y'all need to think if that happened you will lose ownership of everything ...your property...your rights and more importantly your freedom to protest. A conservative society is not perfect and there's inequality but at least you can protest and have ownership. If you protest under a socialist state you only need to see what happens in China ,North Korea, Venezuala
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mcjules
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SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Who does?
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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AzzaMarch
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mcjules wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Who does?
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Carlito
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AzzaMarch wrote:mcjules wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Who does?
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SocaWho
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mcjules wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Who does? Look in the mirror:lol:
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BETHFC
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Good debate on sky news, Pauline Hanson actually hasn't gone full racist yet.
It's great when non-ALP/LNP parties have these type of forums because they talk about their own policies rather than attacking the other major.
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mcjules
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SocaWho wrote:mcjules wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Who does? Look in the mirror:lol: Sums up how ill informed you are ;)
Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here
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Enzo Bearzot
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SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Y'all need to think if that happened you will lose ownership of everything ...your property...your rights and more importantly your freedom to protest. A conservative society is not perfect and there's inequality but at least you can protest and have ownership. If you protest under a socialist state you only need to see what happens in China ,North Korea, Venezuala Oh Socialist want ownership all right- they want to own what you have. And when they have it they will tell you it was never yours to begin with. They are motivated entirely by envy. To justify theft of private property they will cite all many of fictitious injustices as to why some people have more than others. And they will turn logic on its head; for eg by telling you things like a tax deduction is the same as welfare payment. I never took them seriously in Australia, but they are infiltrating the mass media, becoming more militant and aggressive and appealling to young adults. The problem is none of the impressionable 20-somethings have any idea what its like under a socialist regime because they don't acknowledge history or believe nothing happened before they were born, and that socialist ideas are somehow their own original ideas.
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SocaWho
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mcjules wrote:SocaWho wrote:mcjules wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Who does? Look in the mirror:lol: Sums up how ill informed you are ;) What's Auburn like again?...now you tell me who is ill informed:oops: seems like you have a warped view on reality :lol: dunno why you haven't muted me yet ...:lol: Edited by Socawho: 23/6/2016 11:33:33 PM
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SocaWho
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Enzo Bearzot wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Y'all need to think if that happened you will lose ownership of everything ...your property...your rights and more importantly your freedom to protest. A conservative society is not perfect and there's inequality but at least you can protest and have ownership. If you protest under a socialist state you only need to see what happens in China ,North Korea, Venezuala Oh Socialist want ownership all right- they want to own what you have. And when they have it they will tell you it was never yours to begin with. They are motivated entirely by envy. To justify theft of private property they will cite all many of fictitious injustices as to why some people have more than others. And they will turn logic on its head; for eg by telling you things like a tax deduction is the same as welfare payment. I never took them seriously in Australia, but they are infiltrating the mass media, becoming more militant and aggressive and appealling to young adults. The problem is none of the impressionable 20-somethings have any idea what its like under a socialist regime because they don't acknowledge history or believe nothing happened before they were born, and that socialist ideas are somehow their own original ideas. The sheep that advocate socialism seem to think that everyone eats the same , sleep the same , shit the same,etc.... ...they are right except that they probably are too stupid to work out why they call one person " dear leader" :d
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Aikhme
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socceroo_06 wrote:Aikhme wrote:Glenn - A-league Mad wrote:Aikhme wrote:
These minor parties are a huge nuisance.
When will Australians ever learn. We have had 5 PMs in 6 years. All this instability is like an Aircraft flying without a pilot. A Government needs a mandate to govern and pass its policies, budgets and laws and if people don't like it, they can vote them out at the next election.
We are sabotaging and shooting ourselves in the foot by voting minor parties and independents. The end result could be chaos!
But thats the point of voting isnt it. Vote for the candidate that best represents your values. If the major parties policies dont represent you then you need an alternative. If the Liberals could govern without the threat of losing their billions in corporate funding they could probably win with a mandate. Independents and minor parties are an important function of our democratic society. That is all misrepresented. The Liberals don't get Billions in corporate funding. They get some funding from business, and usually the same entities also fund Labor. On top of that Labor get millions from the Unions in funding. Overall, Labor get more funding by a long shot. As a libertarian, I want nothing more than the current liberal government to be torn apart. They are not true liberals nor do they express classical liberal ideology. They are a mishmash of conservatives and neo-liberals who are responsible, as is Labor, for bloating Government responsibility and suppressing civil liberty. Then vote Liberal Democrat. Just don't vote Labor or Greens please.
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Aikhme
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BETHFC wrote:Aikhme wrote:BETHFC wrote:Aikhme wrote:BETHFC wrote:Scott Morrison on gay MarriageJust a little dose of reality for those who are moronic enough to think that the LGBTI community actually discriminates against others :lol: He never said the LGBTI community discriminate against others. He said that because of his conservative views, he gets discriminated and verbally insulted with false and hyperbolic innuendos. And it is true. He compared his experience with the experiences those in the LGBTI experience. They're not even remotely relatable and it just shows what a pompous idiot he is. He was actually trying to be sympathetic to LGBTI by also saying that he as a Conservative experience similar verbal abuse as the LGBTI. Which is damaging because he's so far off the mark its not funny. His experience is nothing like theirs. He isn't way off the mark. I would say he is right on the money myself. This country is going bonkers with minority fundamentalism, and right now, they are managing to silence contrary views. Good debate is being stifled and the rhetoric is becoming appalling. Edited by Aikhme: 24/6/2016 01:33:05 AM
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Aikhme
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Group: Banned Members
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Enzo Bearzot wrote:SocaWho wrote:Don't know why there are a few here that are so bang on Australia being a pure socialist state.... Y'all need to think if that happened you will lose ownership of everything ...your property...your rights and more importantly your freedom to protest. A conservative society is not perfect and there's inequality but at least you can protest and have ownership. If you protest under a socialist state you only need to see what happens in China ,North Korea, Venezuala Oh Socialist want ownership all right- they want to own what you have. And when they have it they will tell you it was never yours to begin with. They are motivated entirely by envy. To justify theft of private property they will cite all many of fictitious injustices as to why some people have more than others. And they will turn logic on its head; for eg by telling you things like a tax deduction is the same as welfare payment. I never took them seriously in Australia, but they are infiltrating the mass media, becoming more militant and aggressive and appealling to young adults. The problem is none of the impressionable 20-somethings have any idea what its like under a socialist regime because they don't acknowledge history or believe nothing happened before they were born, and that socialist ideas are somehow their own original ideas. 100% This is happening now, even though the culprits on this very forum deny it. Have you noticed how they advocate for more taxation and abolishment of negative gearing. This is where it starts and it will end when the haves fuck off from Australia to leave them waiting in the corner soup kitchen lines. Edited by Aikhme: 24/6/2016 01:37:23 AM
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BETHFC
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Old Bill got smashed by Leigh Sales on the ABC last night. I absolutely love her no bullsh*t approach to politicians and the way they dance around answering questions.
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