Enzo Bearzot
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Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. From reading Fairfax, and being on other politics forums, here are some of the things I read. 1. A " wage" for anyone and everyone, working or not, like they tried in Switzerland 2. Tax the family home on sale. 3. Confiscate the family home on death as a defacto inheritance tax. 4. Annual Land Tax on the family home 5. Even though the top 20% pay 73 % of all income taxes, make them pay all of it so 4 out 5 pay no income tax. 6. Charge capital gains tax without allowance for costs and inflation, at the full difference between sell and buy. 7. Pay tax on revenue, not revenue-minus deductions.
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SocaWho
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Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. When Roz Ward is a self proclaimed communist and safe schools is designed by her, what do you think the agenda represents? If you allow a self proclaimed thief into your own home could you walk out knowing that everything will be intact when you come back?
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Toughlove
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Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. From reading Fairfax, and being on other politics forums, here are some of the things I read. 1. A " wage" for anyone and everyone, working or not, like they tried in Switzerland 2. Tax the family home on sale. 3. Confiscate the family home on death as a defacto inheritance tax. 4. Annual Land Tax on the family home 5. Even though the top 20% pay 73 % of all income taxes, make them pay all of it so 4 out 5 pay no income tax. 6. Charge capital gains tax without allowance for costs and inflation, at the full difference between sell and buy. 7. Pay tax on revenue, not revenue-minus deductions. I'm not sure follow. Are these suggestions (1 to 7) examples of the coming communist takeover or, you know, suggestions as to how to pay for our spending. I'm sure I could drag out right wing lunatic suggestions without much effort. The fringe are just that, the fringe.
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Toughlove
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SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. When Roz Ward is a self proclaimed communist and safe schools is designed by her, what do you think the agenda represents? If you allow a self proclaimed thief into your own home could you walk out knowing that everything will be intact when you come back? Self proclaimed huh? Source please? You remind me of my uncles who were all post war migrants. We'd go (my family being new Australians as well) to BBQ's when I was a kid and after a fair amount of drink the political arguments would start to rage. (Being European they weren't bound by norms of Australian society where politics was rarely discussed.) FASCIST somebody would yell, COMMUNIST the other fellow would yell. And that would go on for hours. Equivalent I guess to today's Godwin's law. You remind me of those uncles. You're not 84 are you?
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SocaWho
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Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. When Roz Ward is a self proclaimed communist and safe schools is designed by her, what do you think the agenda represents? If you allow a self proclaimed thief into your own home could you walk out knowing that everything will be intact when you come back? Self proclaimed huh? Source please? You remind me of my uncles who were all post war migrants. We'd go (my family being new Australians as well) to BBQ's when I was a kid and after a fair amount of drink the political arguments would start to rage. (Being European they weren't bound by norms of Australian society where politics was rarely discussed.) FASCIST somebody would yell, COMMUNIST the other fellow would yell. And that would go on for hours. Equivalent I guess to today's Godwin's law. You remind me of those uncles. You're not 84 are you? She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you wabt Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM
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Enzo Bearzot
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Toughlove wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. From reading Fairfax, and being on other politics forums, here are some of the things I read. 1. A " wage" for anyone and everyone, working or not, like they tried in Switzerland 2. Tax the family home on sale. 3. Confiscate the family home on death as a defacto inheritance tax. 4. Annual Land Tax on the family home 5. Even though the top 20% pay 73 % of all income taxes, make them pay all of it so 4 out 5 pay no income tax. 6. Charge capital gains tax without allowance for costs and inflation, at the full difference between sell and buy. 7. Pay tax on revenue, not revenue-minus deductions. I'm not sure follow. Are these suggestions (1 to 7) examples of the coming communist takeover or, you know, suggestions as to how to pay for our spending. 1-4 simply amount to confiscating people's basic property, their home, to funnel into a collective pot for re-distribition to others. Its a more subtle way to do it as opposed to doing at gunpoint, but the outcome is the same. 5. is about getting the majority dependent on government, another fundamental tenet of socialism. 6 . is just a government confiscation of property additional to the family home. 7. Is an attack on private enterprise. Of course its done under the guise of "paying for our spending" Quote: I'm sure I could drag out right wing lunatic suggestions without much effort.
The fringe are just that, the fringe. Some of those ideas like a "universal wage", taxing the gain on the family home, inheritance taxes, land tax on the family home, confiscation of the family home on death , capital gains are by mainstream journalists, not lunatics. That's how it begins. People think its so absurd that it couldn't happen.
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Toughlove
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SocaWho wrote:
She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you want
Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM
Well you made the claim so presumably there's a quote somewhere where she says 'hey everybody, just so you know I'm a communist.' You see that would qualify as 'self-proclaimed'. I want the union jack removed. Am I a communist? Seeing you mentioned her I read up some of the stuff she's written for 'redflag'. Hardly a call to arms and an overthrow of capitalism. Couple of articles about the matildas but nothing there super controversial. Have a read for yourself. https://redflag.org.au/author/roz-wardPretty much lukewarm stuff compared to your Tim Blair / Andrew Bolt types.
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Toughlove
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Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. From reading Fairfax, and being on other politics forums, here are some of the things I read. 1. A " wage" for anyone and everyone, working or not, like they tried in Switzerland 2. Tax the family home on sale. 3. Confiscate the family home on death as a defacto inheritance tax. 4. Annual Land Tax on the family home 5. Even though the top 20% pay 73 % of all income taxes, make them pay all of it so 4 out 5 pay no income tax. 6. Charge capital gains tax without allowance for costs and inflation, at the full difference between sell and buy. 7. Pay tax on revenue, not revenue-minus deductions. I'm not sure follow. Are these suggestions (1 to 7) examples of the coming communist takeover or, you know, suggestions as to how to pay for our spending. 1-4 simply amount to confiscating people's basic property, their home, to funnel into a collective pot for re-distribition to others. Its a more subtle way to do it as opposed to doing at gunpoint, but the outcome is the same. 5. is about getting the majority dependent on government, another fundamental tenet of socialism. 6 . is just a government confiscation of property additional to the family home. 7. Is an attack on private enterprise. Of course its done under the guise of "paying for our spending" Quote: I'm sure I could drag out right wing lunatic suggestions without much effort.
The fringe are just that, the fringe. Some of those ideas like a "universal wage", taxing the gain on the family home, inheritance taxes, land tax on the family home, confiscation of the family home on death , capital gains are by mainstream journalists, not lunatics. That's how it begins. People think its so absurd that it couldn't happen. So if they're mainstream presumably you'd be easily able to quote a politician or political party (mainstream though) that espouses some of these outrages? 1, 2, 3 and 4 I've never heard discussed by any mainstream journalist or political party but if you say so. I look forward to your links. (5) Worth a discussion. The land tax one (6) is on undeveloped land and is meant to stop land hoarding, get rid of stamp duty and encourage building. It's actually not a bad idea and worth discussing. So is the outrageous practice of raking in 60 billion dollars in profits, Rio Tinto etc, and then paying no tax due to 'write-downs' and 'depreciation'. (7) Also worth a look at I would have thought.
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grazorblade
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some of the rumours going around about safe schools sound pretty disturbing wander if they are media beat ups, rogue teachers or genuine reflections of the program one claim was that the boys were asked to find pictures of men on the internet and explain why they found them attractive. When one boy said they weren't attracted to men they got in trouble that sounds like it can't possibly be true. But stranger things have happened anyone have kids at the age where they are in the safe schools program
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Toughlove
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grazorblade wrote:some of the rumours going around about safe schools sound pretty disturbing wander if they are media beat ups, rogue teachers or genuine reflections of the program one claim was that the boys were asked to find pictures of men on the internet and explain why they found them attractive. When one boy said they weren't attracted to men they got in trouble that sounds like it can't possibly be true. But stranger things have happened anyone have kids at the age where they are in the safe schools program Actual evidence, just like socawho and Enzo's links to their sources, appears thin on the ground. FWIW I have no opinion on safe schools because I haven't read enough about it.
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grazorblade
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Toughlove wrote:grazorblade wrote:some of the rumours going around about safe schools sound pretty disturbing wander if they are media beat ups, rogue teachers or genuine reflections of the program one claim was that the boys were asked to find pictures of men on the internet and explain why they found them attractive. When one boy said they weren't attracted to men they got in trouble that sounds like it can't possibly be true. But stranger things have happened anyone have kids at the age where they are in the safe schools program Actual evidence, just like socawho and Enzo's links to their sources, appears thin on the ground. FWIW I have no opinion on safe schools because I haven't read enough about it. yeah im reserving judgement too until i have more information
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SocaWho
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Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:
She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you want
Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM
Well you made the claim so presumably there's a quote somewhere where she says 'hey everybody, just so you know I'm a communist.' You see that would qualify as 'self-proclaimed'. I want the union jack removed. Am I a communist? Seeing you mentioned her I read up some of the stuff she's written for 'redflag'. Hardly a call to arms and an overthrow of capitalism. Couple of articles about the matildas but nothing there super controversial. Have a read for yourself. https://redflag.org.au/author/roz-wardPretty much lukewarm stuff compared to your Tim Blair / Andrew Bolt types. Lol The Red Flag page has page links to Marxist sources all over the place...why are you so naive to think just because she hasn't said it herself it doesn't make her a communist. She even remarked that her job was done with the safe schools and all there needs now is a commie flag in place of an Australian one over the union jack It's like saying people who kill in the name of religion aren't true believers of their faith...well if you take away their religious books then where do they cite their motivations from? The same goes for the extreme right parties like UPF who want to parlay themselves as mainstream but their leader prescribes that Mein Kampf should be in every classroom. Just because they haven't verbally admitted to what they are , you can get an indication for what they stand for if their is a pattern in what they say you obviously don't think wolvEs in Sheeps clothing exists :lol: Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 05:06:24 PM
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Toughlove
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SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:
She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you want
Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM
Well you made the claim so presumably there's a quote somewhere where she says 'hey everybody, just so you know I'm a communist.' You see that would qualify as 'self-proclaimed'. I want the union jack removed. Am I a communist? Seeing you mentioned her I read up some of the stuff she's written for 'redflag'. Hardly a call to arms and an overthrow of capitalism. Couple of articles about the matildas but nothing there super controversial. Have a read for yourself. https://redflag.org.au/author/roz-wardPretty much lukewarm stuff compared to your Tim Blair / Andrew Bolt types. Lol The Red Flag page has page links to Marxist sources all over the place...why are you so naive to think just because she hasn't said it herself it doesn't make her a communist. She even remarked that her job was done with the safe schools and all there needs now is a commie flag in place of an Australian one over the union jack It's like saying people who kill in the name of religion aren't true believers of their faith...well if you take away their religious books then where do they cite their motivations from? you obviously don't think wolvEs in Sheeps clothing exists :lol: Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 05:01:19 PM You, YOU said she's a 'self-proclaimed' communist. I've noticed you're big on claims, not so big on evidence. I'm not naive champion she very well may be a communist, socialist more likely, but I'm not the one screaming that she's a "SELF PROCLAIMED COMMUNIST". That's you.
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SocaWho
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Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:
She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you want
Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM
Well you made the claim so presumably there's a quote somewhere where she says 'hey everybody, just so you know I'm a communist.' You see that would qualify as 'self-proclaimed'. I want the union jack removed. Am I a communist? Seeing you mentioned her I read up some of the stuff she's written for 'redflag'. Hardly a call to arms and an overthrow of capitalism. Couple of articles about the matildas but nothing there super controversial. Have a read for yourself. https://redflag.org.au/author/roz-wardPretty much lukewarm stuff compared to your Tim Blair / Andrew Bolt types. Lol The Red Flag page has page links to Marxist sources all over the place...why are you so naive to think just because she hasn't said it herself it doesn't make her a communist. She even remarked that her job was done with the safe schools and all there needs now is a commie flag in place of an Australian one over the union jack It's like saying people who kill in the name of religion aren't true believers of their faith...well if you take away their religious books then where do they cite their motivations from? you obviously don't think wolvEs in Sheeps clothing exists :lol: Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 05:01:19 PM You, YOU said she's a 'self-proclaimed' communist. I've noticed you're big on claims, not so big on evidence. I'm not naive champion she very well may be a communist, socialist more likely, but I'm not the one screaming that she's a "SELF PROCLAIMED COMMUNIST". That's you. Am I wrong though?:lol: You haven't heard of the duck test have you:roll: Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 05:08:47 PM
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Toughlove
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SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:
She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you want
Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM
Well you made the claim so presumably there's a quote somewhere where she says 'hey everybody, just so you know I'm a communist.' You see that would qualify as 'self-proclaimed'. I want the union jack removed. Am I a communist? Seeing you mentioned her I read up some of the stuff she's written for 'redflag'. Hardly a call to arms and an overthrow of capitalism. Couple of articles about the matildas but nothing there super controversial. Have a read for yourself. https://redflag.org.au/author/roz-wardPretty much lukewarm stuff compared to your Tim Blair / Andrew Bolt types. Lol The Red Flag page has page links to Marxist sources all over the place...why are you so naive to think just because she hasn't said it herself it doesn't make her a communist. She even remarked that her job was done with the safe schools and all there needs now is a commie flag in place of an Australian one over the union jack It's like saying people who kill in the name of religion aren't true believers of their faith...well if you take away their religious books then where do they cite their motivations from? you obviously don't think wolvEs in Sheeps clothing exists :lol: Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 05:01:19 PM You, YOU said she's a 'self-proclaimed' communist. I've noticed you're big on claims, not so big on evidence. I'm not naive champion she very well may be a communist, socialist more likely, but I'm not the one screaming that she's a "SELF PROCLAIMED COMMUNIST". That's you. Am I wrong though?:lol: You haven't heard of the duck test have you:roll: Is that an example of 'self-proclaimed'? Is English your second language? Was it this test? [youtube]zrzMhU_4m-g[/youtube]
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Toughlove
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Replace "WITCH" for "COMMUNIST" in that clip and Socawho = John Cleese.
BURN HER!!!
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Aikhme
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SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:SocaWho wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. When Roz Ward is a self proclaimed communist and safe schools is designed by her, what do you think the agenda represents? If you allow a self proclaimed thief into your own home could you walk out knowing that everything will be intact when you come back? Self proclaimed huh? Source please? You remind me of my uncles who were all post war migrants. We'd go (my family being new Australians as well) to BBQ's when I was a kid and after a fair amount of drink the political arguments would start to rage. (Being European they weren't bound by norms of Australian society where politics was rarely discussed.) FASCIST somebody would yell, COMMUNIST the other fellow would yell. And that would go on for hours. Equivalent I guess to today's Godwin's law. You remind me of those uncles. You're not 84 are you? She writes for the Red Flag a socialist publication. And allegedly posted on social media that the Union Jack might as well be replaced by a hammer and sickle. How much more proof do you wabt Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 03:48:07 PM She is a self confessed communist and she revealed a hidden agenda behind the Safe Schools Malarky at a speech once.
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Aikhme
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Toughlove wrote:Replace "WITCH" for "COMMUNIST" in that clip and Socawho = John Cleese.
BURN HER!!! These are the kinds of things that really push people over the edge in many countries including the UK just the other day when 52% voted for BREXIT! As the SJW get more boisterous, so will the Hard Right and we will get things like BREXIT and TRUMP, and even some neo NAZI offerings, Pauline Hanson, Golden Dawn, UKIP, etc etc etc.
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SocaWho
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Aikhme wrote:Toughlove wrote:Replace "WITCH" for "COMMUNIST" in that clip and Socawho = John Cleese.
BURN HER!!! These are the kinds of things that really push people over the edge in many countries including the UK just the other day when 52% voted for BREXIT! As the SJW get more boisterous, so will the Hard Right and we will get things like BREXIT and TRUMP, and even some neo NAZI offerings, Pauline Hanson, Golden Dawn, UKIP, etc etc etc. Tough Love thinks the only way someone can be confirmed as something is if they hold up a sign saying " I am...(this)" :lol:
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Toughlove
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SocaWho wrote:Aikhme wrote:Toughlove wrote:Replace "WITCH" for "COMMUNIST" in that clip and Socawho = John Cleese.
BURN HER!!! These are the kinds of things that really push people over the edge in many countries including the UK just the other day when 52% voted for BREXIT! As the SJW get more boisterous, so will the Hard Right and we will get things like BREXIT and TRUMP, and even some neo NAZI offerings, Pauline Hanson, Golden Dawn, UKIP, etc etc etc. Tough Love thinks the only way someone can be confirmed as something is if they hold up a sign saying " I am...(this)" :lol: Like a little cheeky shit of a child hiding behind a tree until his big brother walks by and then he sticks his head out here you are. I never said she wasn't a communist. You said she's a 'self proclaimed communist'. I said show me where she said that. You couldn't because she never did. You had ample opportunity (hours) to prove me wrong but obviously couldn't. She may very well be a communist but that is not what the argument is about. Frankly you are too stupid to engage in any meaningful way. I'll leave you to scream 'communist' at mcjules and the others here. Good luck in your year 9 exams.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Toughlove wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. From reading Fairfax, and being on other politics forums, here are some of the things I read. 1. A " wage" for anyone and everyone, working or not, like they tried in Switzerland 2. Tax the family home on sale. 3. Confiscate the family home on death as a defacto inheritance tax. 4. Annual Land Tax on the family home 5. Even though the top 20% pay 73 % of all income taxes, make them pay all of it so 4 out 5 pay no income tax. 6. Charge capital gains tax without allowance for costs and inflation, at the full difference between sell and buy. 7. Pay tax on revenue, not revenue-minus deductions. I'm not sure follow. Are these suggestions (1 to 7) examples of the coming communist takeover or, you know, suggestions as to how to pay for our spending. 1-4 simply amount to confiscating people's basic property, their home, to funnel into a collective pot for re-distribition to others. Its a more subtle way to do it as opposed to doing at gunpoint, but the outcome is the same. 5. is about getting the majority dependent on government, another fundamental tenet of socialism. 6 . is just a government confiscation of property additional to the family home. 7. Is an attack on private enterprise. Of course its done under the guise of "paying for our spending" Quote: I'm sure I could drag out right wing lunatic suggestions without much effort.
The fringe are just that, the fringe. Some of those ideas like a "universal wage", taxing the gain on the family home, inheritance taxes, land tax on the family home, confiscation of the family home on death , capital gains are by mainstream journalists, not lunatics. That's how it begins. People think its so absurd that it couldn't happen. So if they're mainstream presumably you'd be easily able to quote a politician or political party (mainstream though) that espouses some of these outrages? 1, 2, 3 and 4 I've never heard discussed by any mainstream journalist or political party but if you say so. I look forward to your links. 1. Universal wage: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/a-basic-income-is-smarter-than-a-minimum-wage-20160403-gnl xib9.html 2,3 and 4 Tax family home on sale, capital gains tax on family home, land tax on family google "smh tax the family home", and take your pick of the numerous Fairfax articles that appear. Quote:(5) Worth a discussion What is? Creating a welfare state where 4 out 5 pay no tax, and simply have their hand out? Quote:The land tax one (6) is on undeveloped land and is meant to stop land hoarding, get rid of stamp duty and encourage building. It's actually not a bad idea and worth discussing. Nope. Land Tax is proposed to apply to the family home, new, old whatever. Google "smh land tax family home" and take your pick. Quote:So is the outrageous practice of raking in 60 billion dollars in profits, Rio Tinto etc, and then paying no tax due to 'write-downs' and 'depreciation'. (7) Also worth a look at I would have thought. Depreciation is a legitimate deduction that is applicable to every business, and even PAYG. The tax treatment of the family home isn't responsible for the budget deficit. Besides, its not "tax free". Buyers pay stamp duty. Owners pay off mortgages with after-tax dollars. Owners pay Council rates with after tax dollars. Owners pay for maintenance with after tax dollars. Owners pay for improvements with after tax dollars. Owners suffer depreciation on floorings, window coverings, fencing, etc, etc. If the government thinks its entitled to the family home, it can pay for it and provide shelter for everyone.
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Aikhme
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Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:Enzo Bearzot wrote:Toughlove wrote:sydneyfc1987 wrote:AzzaMarch wrote: The reality is, every OECD country is a "mixed" economy. A country may lean more towards capitalism or socialism. But by and large, elements of both systems exist within each economy. .
How is this even an argument? Its not just the OECD countries, its basically every organized government in the modern world, perhaps with the exception of North Korea. It's only an argument for people like Rusty and Socawho who think that communism is only 5 minutes away from becoming the entrenched system here. Apparently 'safe schools' is a stepping stone towards said communism. From reading Fairfax, and being on other politics forums, here are some of the things I read. 1. A " wage" for anyone and everyone, working or not, like they tried in Switzerland 2. Tax the family home on sale. 3. Confiscate the family home on death as a defacto inheritance tax. 4. Annual Land Tax on the family home 5. Even though the top 20% pay 73 % of all income taxes, make them pay all of it so 4 out 5 pay no income tax. 6. Charge capital gains tax without allowance for costs and inflation, at the full difference between sell and buy. 7. Pay tax on revenue, not revenue-minus deductions. I'm not sure follow. Are these suggestions (1 to 7) examples of the coming communist takeover or, you know, suggestions as to how to pay for our spending. 1-4 simply amount to confiscating people's basic property, their home, to funnel into a collective pot for re-distribition to others. Its a more subtle way to do it as opposed to doing at gunpoint, but the outcome is the same. 5. is about getting the majority dependent on government, another fundamental tenet of socialism. 6 . is just a government confiscation of property additional to the family home. 7. Is an attack on private enterprise. Of course its done under the guise of "paying for our spending" Quote: I'm sure I could drag out right wing lunatic suggestions without much effort.
The fringe are just that, the fringe. Some of those ideas like a "universal wage", taxing the gain on the family home, inheritance taxes, land tax on the family home, confiscation of the family home on death , capital gains are by mainstream journalists, not lunatics. That's how it begins. People think its so absurd that it couldn't happen. So if they're mainstream presumably you'd be easily able to quote a politician or political party (mainstream though) that espouses some of these outrages? 1, 2, 3 and 4 I've never heard discussed by any mainstream journalist or political party but if you say so. I look forward to your links. 1. Universal wage: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/a-basic-income-is-smarter-than-a-minimum-wage-20160403-gnl xib9.html 2,3 and 4 Tax family home on sale, capital gains tax on family home, land tax on family google "smh tax the family home", and take your pick of the numerous Fairfax articles that appear. Quote:(5) Worth a discussion What is? Creating a welfare state where 4 out 5 pay no tax, and simply have their hand out? Quote:The land tax one (6) is on undeveloped land and is meant to stop land hoarding, get rid of stamp duty and encourage building. It's actually not a bad idea and worth discussing. Nope. Land Tax is proposed to apply to the family home, new, old whatever. Google "smh land tax family home" and take your pick. Quote:So is the outrageous practice of raking in 60 billion dollars in profits, Rio Tinto etc, and then paying no tax due to 'write-downs' and 'depreciation'. (7) Also worth a look at I would have thought. Depreciation is a legitimate deduction that is applicable to every business, and even PAYG. The tax treatment of the family home isn't responsible for the budget deficit. Besides, its not "tax free". Buyers pay stamp duty. Owners pay off mortgages with after-tax dollars. Owners pay Council rates with after tax dollars. Owners pay for maintenance with after tax dollars. Owners pay for improvements with after tax dollars. Owners suffer depreciation on floorings, window coverings, fencing, etc, etc. If the government thinks its entitled to the family home, it can pay for it and provide shelter for everyone. 100%
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paulbagzFC
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Far out, how do Magic Mal and ScoMo do a press conference and harp on about "stable leadership" with a straight face? :lol: How do the journalists asking questions keep a straight face? :lol: -PB
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Toughlove
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Maybe you could do some research before sprouting garbage. Your 'basic income' article was by a Berlin writer writing in a Bloomberg publication. I haven't seen it ever discussed in Australia by any mainstream politician or put forward as a serious idea anywhere. http://www.theage.com.au/comment/a-basic-income-is-smarter-than-a-minimum-wage-20160403-gnxib9.htmlEdited by toughlove: 26/6/2016 02:50:33 PM
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Toughlove
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'Depreciation' and 'write-downs' lead to this sort of crap. http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/which-of-australias-biggest-companies-are-not-paying-tax-20151216-glpl3a.htmlhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-17/almost-600-companies-did-not-pay-tax-in-2013-14/7036324Tell me that's fair. And there's no reason there should be a 50% discount on capital gains. None at all. (And I say this as someone who owns 3 rental properties and undeveloped land. Thanks to this rule though I've recently saved $40k on the sale of a property.) Ongoing costs? Oh boo hoo. If you're a businessman making investment decisions then you have to factor that into you business plan. Like wankers that buy cafes and then whinge they have to pay penalty rates. It's not a new thing champ. Has been double time on Sunday for as long as I can remember. Personally I think it should be a max time and a half but that's just my opinion. The point being you need to go into these 'investments' with your eyes open. Why should any taxpayer without investments pay for your investment strategies? Fuck off.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Oh FFS, Do your own research, google "smh universal wage". Plenty others from local journalists will come up. No, no party has discussed it- yet, but thats because the Swish already rejected it. The lefties were all salivating at the prospect until that happened.
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Enzo Bearzot
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What's "fair" is a moving target and is entirely a subjective opinion at a certain point in time. If these corporations are acting illegally they should be prosecuted. If they are acting because they have found unintended consequences of legislation then the legislation needs amending. This actually happens all the time- tax laws are changed whenever a taxpayer wins in Court so that no-one else can use that loop hole again. Quote:And there's no reason there should be a 50% discount on capital gains. None at all. (And I say this as someone who owns 3 rental properties and undeveloped land. Thanks to this rule though I've recently saved $40k on the sale of a property.) Prior to the 50% CGT discount, CGT was calculated on the real gain ie taking into account inflation and expenses. Prior to that, there was ZERO CGT. The effective CGT with the 50% discount is 25% because as you know, gains are added to taxable income and that will push most into the highest marginal tax rate. T hat ranks us the 16th in highest CGT in the world. Further the average OECD CGT is about 19%, and nine OECD countries have zero CGT- http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/03/25/u-s-capital-gain-rate-among-worlds-highest-but-president-obama-wants-more/#6f3a546820ce Labors proposal will make us the world second highest CGT taxing nation with an effective CGT of 37.5%, just under Denmarks 42% Quote:Ongoing costs? Oh boo hoo. If you're a businessman making investment decisions then you have to factor that into you business plan. Thats right, they do. And they make their business plan knowing that tax isn't payable on revenue, but on revenue minus costs. Quote: Like wankers that buy cafes and then whinge they have to pay penalty rates. It's not a new thing champ. Has been double time on Sunday for as long as I can remember.
That's no reason why it should still continue, is it? Quote:Personally I think it should be a max time and a half but that's just my opinion. Why? You just argued that things should stay as they have been. Quote:The point being you need to go into these 'investments' with your eyes open. If "investors" decide to invest knowing that negative gearing will not apply, CGT concession will be at 25%, then they have no-one to blame. But moving the goal posts after the event doesn't make i theur fault Quote:Why should any taxpayer without investments pay for your investment strategies? Fuck off.
As a tax payer, I received a thank you note from the ATO. It also told me most of my taxes came straight back out as a cash payment to someone else on welfare. I don't recall any of my taxes being spent to cover "investment strategy" losses of other tax payers. Edited by enzo bearzot: 26/6/2016 04:18:13 PM
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Condemned666
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There is no scratch on the record, but Anti Islam Anti Racism groups clash AGAIN! Yawn, let them kill each other for all I care Edited by condemned666: 26/6/2016 10:12:01 PM
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SocaWho
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+1. Both are as bad as each other....should just build a colosseum for them to duke it out
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Glenn - A-league Mad
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People of the internet can be cruel, funny but cruel
[youtube]y9PCltR-8Ms[/youtube]
Edited by glenn - a-league mad: 27/6/2016 09:27:09 AM
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