nice try - both MH and MV have shareholders and director representing a diverse ethnic blend - not MONO ETHNIC.

Are you listening ?

B4 you talk with your mate Paulc you appear to be on common ground. It's completely usual for people with your attitude to be in denial. It's okay I give up I can't change your attitude to people from different cultures which is sad.

I still cannot beleive you support rules for one group over another, I'm shaking my head while I write this, how sad.

I'm not trying anything you are the one who prefer's them bankrolling a club in difference to a wealthy person bankrolling Preston.

You see that as a problem. Fair enough I can't stop the way you think.


While I'm on record saying that private investment in franchises should be diverse and not reliant on a sole investor. You seem to think thats okay.

Edited by Arthur: 19/4/2012 07:33:52 PM

In the last 2 season's of NSL Melb Knights had supporters of fillipino decent,somali,chillian,greek,scottish and turkish aswell as croatian. Because the Knights were the only team in melbournes west most supporters of melbournes west soccer fraternity attended our games.

Sorry but I never said that - I actually agree, my preference is for diverse investment in HAL, but responsible wealthy benefactors such as SAGE and other are welcome.
When someone comes up with a test to screen out wealthy fools such as Tinkler and Palmer then we will all be happy.

We're not analysing why some migrant communities were better at supporting clubs than others.

We're saying *now* with *wide diverse support for the game* why isn't there an equal representation of diversity at clubs?

Your position is there is no support for 2nd tier at all and all the mono-ethnic club support will die out leading to participation only leagues. You've made that conclusion despite the absence of measures in place that other sports use to engage their local communities.

Unfortunately as some have pointed out in this topic, even the scourge of mono-ethnicity has influenced the backgrounds of players who *play* at clubs, even if it's not what it once was.

What is being done about this is the key. You might be more moderate in your views, but you can see that many of the existing mono-ethnic supporters are busy making excuses and don't see a problem with the slow struggle from mono-ethnicity to mainstream rather than making it a quicker transition if the clubs were aggressive in engaging their local communities.

That's not what you said in your post, but if that is what you meant it's incorrect analysis because mono-ethnic clubs do pull crowds, but we have the diversity missing which is present at other levels of the game. The 'non-ethnic' clubs get zilch, nothing at all. This is not an equal low level of support this is *no engagement at all for particular backgrounds*.

In the past you and others have used the 'why don't non-ethnic clubs pulls crowds' to suggest that they had their opportunity and are not interested, instead your attitude should be what can *we all* do to engage more of our local community/region.

Part of that would be addressing questions like does the presence and perception of mono-ethnicity harm the whole competition’s and games image? As you seem to be oblivious to mainstream society, or more likely so biased you’re unwilling to admit it, i can tell you it does.

You have not read a single thing i typed BackFour. None of it.

I repeat, people who use "ethnic violence" as paulc and rusty have to exclude NSL clubs from joining the HAL are either ignorant or racist.

Today in the A-League we see much violence, but in a DIFFERENT format. It's there to be seen for all. Sometimes its bad, sometimes it's a media beat up. But the video links i provided are proof.

If someone cannot understand that ALL forms of violence are unacceptable and result in the same consequences for our game, then they need to go back to school.

Good for you but you guys still don't have the level of support needed to be in the A-league.

And if it wasn't for Postecoglou there'd be no Roar.

Lot of "if's" but the Knights have made it clear and on record they do not wanted to apply to join the A-League due to costs, having said that they have a few million in assets as they own their ground.

They still produce excellent talent I think you may even have one.

Edited by Arthur: 19/4/2012 09:08:48 PM

You know I wasn't going to say anything SC58 but in the end I couldn't help myself, forgive me.

The Knights have 3 promising youngsters coming through the ranks!! but due to the next to nothing coming in when premier league clubs sell to HAL clubs i think they will be paraded to euro clubs for a bigger return. One possibly might be as good as Viduka was!!

I'm as good as Viduka on my day. Promise.

I am too when im dreaming im even better then ronaldo & messi!!lol

I understood completely, violence in any form is unacceptable - but to naively suggest that despite clear historical evidence from the old NSL days, that we should blindly accept the violent consequences of reintroducing these teams - is totally unacceptable.
You may as well suggest that EPL fans not be segregated because they will fight anyway - bad logic.

the logic is on my side and you should be ashamed of yourself labeling people who actually support non violence, (which by definition means a stance against OLD Soccer) as racist - you need to sharpen your powers of deduction.

Your logic in that suggestion is amazing and a terrible generalisation. It also implies the support of a club with non British origins and primary supporters of non British heritage is contrary to non violence and by definition, one must stand against them clubs if one supports non violence.

As bad as suggesting a stance against the Aleague is by definition a stance against violence, because it too has violence. An incredibly illogical generalisation.

My word you bastards are stupidly naive in thinking people are gullible enough to swallow such ridiculous generalisations. And the 'Old Soccer' label does nothing more than maintain a perception of a divide too large to cross. A perception that's becoming more and more obvious, is happily maintained to retain the status quo of 'keeping them in their place' and out of 'ours'.

Them and us. Just the way you like it.
"You're not fucking good enough and we don't want you around"

How some of these blokes like Arthur contain themselves is beyond me, when they have likely copped this sort of shit all their fucking lives from the foreigner fearing and loathing public, opportunist tabloid media, hate mongering shock jocks and unethical politicians using propagated mistrust and fear of immigrants for political advantage.

In my lifetime i've seen the post war immigrants from migrant camps cop the shit. They were called dagos with claims they took all our jobs and stunk from garlic and weren't like the good old brits we were so used to making up 90 odd percent of the immigrants.

Then it was the Asians following the Vietnam war. "We are at risk of being swamped by Asians". The yellow peril. Asian invasion. Oh my gawd, we are doomed.

Then it was immigrants from African nations whom, it was claimed, were bringing Aids and other decease with them and spreading it among 'Mainstream Australians'.

Recently it's anyone from the Middle East or a predominately Muslim nation whom are potential terrorists, wanting Sharia law to replace our democracy and abuse our women.

Don't you think it's about fucking time some of you dimwits moved on from the 'Dago' bashing of the 50's, 60's and 70's?



No, you should be ashamed of yourself for propagating such rubbish.






Edited by skeptic: 19/4/2012 11:07:41 PM

well said.

My god it gets worse in here.

So BackFour, you state that there is "clear historical evidence". The NSL commenced in 1977 and ended in 2004. I couldn't pin point when troubles began, my gut tells me late 80's, but lets just go with 1977 and let's say it went right through to 2004... 27 years of violence.

The HAL is now 7 years old. What you are suggesting is that if we continue to see the same troubles like all the video links i posted above for another 20 odd years, then we can say the HAL has "clear historical evidence" of violence. Is that how it works? 7 years of clear, factual evidence is not enough for you? Enlighten me.

Even with all the shit that i've witnessed with my own 2 eyes at Hindmarsh in the HAL: the flares, punch ups (as recent as our last Gold Coast game), the coin throwing, people getting thrown out... i still would not label the HAL as "violent". It happened and will continue to happen. We just need to continue to be vigilant and throw out perpetrators.

I will remind you that hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent by the FFA/HAL on paying for the services of Hatamoto and elaborate stadium security. These things were not present in the NSL. I have witnessed 2 near-pitch invasions by some pig-headed Victory supporters, thankfully they were stopped on the boundary line by stadium security. But i'm not here labelling the entire HAL or all Victory supporters as violent. That's just stupid.



What a ridiculous statement. You're just making shit up now.

So how should i address the stadium issues your Victory continually have? The scuffles with police? And how do i address Adelaide United's rioting in the streets or Victory throwing computers through pub windows? Heart's banners being stolen by Victory wankers? Should I abstain from the HAL? I dont get your reasoning at all.

I have not seen a single report, thesis, scholarly publication or even opinion-based statement from any well known Australian soccer representative in the media that states old soccer by definition was a violent competition. None.

2 of the most comprehensive studies/investigations into Australian soccer (The PFA APL Report and The Crawford Report) showed countless interviews with various stakeholders and there was not 1 comment that labelled the entire existence of the NSL as "violent".

It's time you started backing your claims with factual evidence or shut up.

I can’t believe that in the year 2012 i’m having the same arguments with people about our game as i was having in the 1970’s.
Trying to start a soccer team at my school took nearly 2 years and i was lucky to have an Englishman
for a PE teacher.
The exact same bullshit misconceptions and fears that they spurted out then i am hearing now.

The real shame is that the people who feel the same as those neanderthals in the 70’s should know better. No excuses.
How many times have we heard soccer called the sleeping giant? When will we wake up?
It’s hard enough in this country with the AFL and NRL trying to bring us down but we make it easy for them.

The so called ethnic teams that a couple of you are worried about would not or could not get into the a league, so why the fear?

You guys are sounding like some KKK Klansman in fear of the negro’s back in the 50’s.
You’ve got your league and the teams you wanted, yes the ones you were waiting for all that time because you didn’t feel comfortable going to the NSL.

So enjoy it, support it and don’t fuck it up because at the end of the day the A league teams have had everything handed to them on a plate. The perfect start ,and before you say that’s not true just remember that all of the clubs in the NSL except for a few had to start at the bottom with a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get them where they were.
Am i bitter? Yes i am and i feel i have every right to be because i can still remember every state and national game i went to through the 70’s and 80’s and supported my state and my country with only a few thousand others and wondered why aussie’s would not come. Well before the fanatics and the GG army it was the South cheer squad giving most of the support to our national team.

I am proud of the fact that i was in Germany for the world cup in 1974 and have some great souvenirs and memories from that trip.
The only reason i am bitter and will remain that way is because of the disrespect shown to supporters like me after all we went through when the game was not as popular as it is today.

We were the ones to stand up and do what was needed to get our game seen as the number 1 sport in Australia while many just watched the EPL and didn’t bother to come until 2005.
So you have it all now and you fear a little club like South Melbourne? Maybe we are not so little any more.
What doesn’t kill you will make you stronger. Long live South.

Yeah, needed to be posted.

Well said aynoc.

".......i can still remember every state and national game i went to through the 70’s and 80’s and supported my state and my country with only a few thousand others and wondered why aussie’s would not come. Well before the fanatics and the GG army it was the South cheer squad giving most of the support to our national team."


I still reckon the "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi, Oi, Oi." chant has its roots with the South Melbourne cheer squads when we used to shout Wadey Wadey Wadey Oi Oi Oi, Wadey took it to Sout Korea with the Socceroo's whenever they went to watch other sports they used the Aussie chant. look where it is today.

i also seem to find that fans of old soccer actually can play, or have played soccer whereas Aleague fans i have come across couldnt kick a ball too well...o:) LOL
im gonna get blasted for that one but its so true (in sydney anyway):oops:

Edited by sav: 20/4/2012 09:20:50 AM

How much cash have you got to spare ?

Now the Russians are getting cold feet and Tinks has taken a walk we're looking at funding 1 of 8 or 3 of 10 and we've only $8m to play with.

I don't know why you would make assumptions like this and then get offended when someone makes assumptions about old soccer. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

I think you are struggling with a very simple concept - most people don't want ehtnic clubs because of the historical violence and therefore bad image created for the game. .
SMFC v PRESTON recently is another example - and the President of SMFC George Donikian regrettable suggested that future games will be played in a closed stadium.
Where administrators see potential flash points they quite rightly act accordingly.

So the FFA recognizes this and doesn't want ethnic clubs because of the documented historical flash points - see above.

You can try and put your head in the sand and feign indignation but regrettably you cannot argue with FFA's position, and those who wish to leave OLD Soccer behind because a new directions is needed.

FFA will also tackle other flash points if the violence that you suggest increases - but I have every confidence that the HAL is along way from that point and would not have gained popularity and success had the issues of the past not been avoided.

this is not what you want to here but it is the position of the majority.







Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 11:05:09 AM

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 11:10:40 AM

Well the fans of old soccer just watched from the stands, it was actually Brits providing the entertainment, particularly in the early days of the NSL. It's good that new fans are getting on board it means even though they might not have been given a soccer education they will make their kids play continuing the evolution and well old soccer will die out altogether.

George stepped down as president of SMFC about 6 years ago, so your story is hardly 'recent'.

Its an issue for sure, regarding the transfer fees, but SL clus will never really be in a strong position, just as HAL clubs aren't on overseas deals, when negotiating these things.

The players hold the cards, and the bigger clubs will always hold the power.

The MK are very much a great development club for our game. I can only hope that transfer deals can include more downstream benefits back to HAL and SL clubs, not justy the initial fee. Thats where the real profit tends to be.

On players under 23 the clubs hold the power on overseas transfers - it's only internal transfers where they are weak. Any player going overseas activates FIFA's training solidarity/compensation system - clubs are entitled to around 40k euros per year, against the $3,000 they get from an A-League club.