Why ethnic teams will not be allowed in the A-League


Why ethnic teams will not be allowed in the A-League

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General Ashnak
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BackFour wrote:
cro69 wrote:
In creating the AFL all other state codes including the VFL were dumped, and yes there were howls of criticism but the code is stronger having made these changes - So to HAL is no different, many OLD SOCCER clubs have lost the spot light like those Aussie rules teams in WA and SA with the start of AFL.

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!


When the VFL changed to AFL not one club got culled they all still remained in the new AFL.


Read my post again - you will see I was specifically referring to WA and SA teams that were culled.

The SANFL clubs were not culled.

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How about you use a larger font with bold and coloured text to go along with your upper case to make 'OLD SOCCER' even more prominent. You're as transparent as a cat in a fishmongers shop.
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chris wrote:
BackFour wrote:
skeptic wrote:
BackFour wrote:


the logic is on my side and you should be ashamed of yourself labeling people who actually support non violence, (which by definition means a stance against OLD Soccer) as racist - you need to sharpen your powers of deduction.



Your logic in that suggestion is amazing and a terrible generalisation. It also implies the support of a club with non British origins and primary supporters of non British heritage is contrary to non violence and by definition, one must stand against them clubs if one supports non violence.

As bad as suggesting a stance against the Aleague is by definition a stance against violence, because it too has violence. An incredibly illogical generalisation.

My word you bastards are stupidly naive in thinking people are gullible enough to swallow such ridiculous generalisations. And the 'Old Soccer' label does nothing more than maintain a perception of a divide too large to cross. A perception that's becoming more and more obvious, is happily maintained to retain the status quo of 'keeping them in their place' and out of 'ours'.

Them and us. Just the way you like it.
"You're not fucking good enough and we don't want you around"

How some of these blokes like Arthur contain themselves is beyond me, when they have likely copped this sort of shit all their fucking lives from the foreigner fearing and loathing public, opportunist tabloid media, hate mongering shock jocks and unethical politicians using propagated mistrust and fear of immigrants for political advantage.

In my lifetime i've seen the post war immigrants from migrant camps cop the shit. They were called dagos with claims they took all our jobs and stunk from garlic and weren't like the good old brits we were so used to making up 90 odd percent of the immigrants.

Then it was the Asians following the Vietnam war. "We are at risk of being swamped by Asians". The yellow peril. Asian invasion. Oh my gawd, we are doomed.

Then it was immigrants from African nations whom, it was claimed, were bringing Aids and other decease with them and spreading it among 'Mainstream Australians'.

Recently it's anyone from the Middle East or a predominately Muslim nation whom are potential terrorists, wanting Sharia law to replace our democracy and abuse our women.

Don't you think it's about fucking time some of you dimwits moved on from the 'Dago' bashing of the 50's, 60's and 70's?



No, you should be ashamed of yourself for propagating such rubbish.






Edited by skeptic: 19/4/2012 11:07:41 PM


Your Assumption is wrong I have never implied any such thing and it's a figment of your imagination.
My point is simply OLD SOCCER whether you like it or not had a bad image, and the establishment of HAL needed to break this connection to grow the game.
Taking the emotion of this issue away it is clear there was no alternative but to cast OLD SOCCER aside - sad but true.
The only way to attract new money (sponsors and investors) was with a clean slate - this is what you guys don't get.

OLD SOCCER had baggage of which Violence was the most newsworthy and exploitable by the anti soccer forces - HAL has changed all that, and your straw clutching to the contrary has no basis in credibility otherwise the media would be all over it.

In creating the AFL all other state codes including the VFL were dumped, and yes there were howls of criticism but the code is stronger having made these changes - So to HAL is no different, many OLD SOCCER clubs have lost the spot light like those Aussie rules teams in WA and SA with the start of AFL.

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 01:35:06 PM


no need to report on violence to kick the game these days - the club owners and the administration screw ups including the WCB and HAL Expansion cause enough negative publicity for the tabloids

Considering the money the game has received - results are extremely poor - there has been little if any penetration

Edited by chris: 20/4/2012 01:44:16 PM


The only basis of comparison is to NSL - and on every statistic HAL is streets ahead.

Seriously mate you have to do better than that.
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BackFour wrote:
cro69 wrote:
In creating the AFL all other state codes including the VFL were dumped, and yes there were howls of criticism but the code is stronger having made these changes - So to HAL is no different, many OLD SOCCER clubs have lost the spot light like those Aussie rules teams in WA and SA with the start of AFL.

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!


When the VFL changed to AFL not one club got culled they all still remained in the new AFL.


Read my post again - you will see I was specifically referring to WA and SA teams that were culled.


No WAFL or SAFL teams were culled they all remaind in those league's They started 2 teams from fresh Brisbane Bears and Westcost Eagles. What occured with NSL was Different all the teams got culled.
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BackFour wrote:
cro69 wrote:
In creating the AFL all other state codes including the VFL were dumped, and yes there were howls of criticism but the code is stronger having made these changes - So to HAL is no different, many OLD SOCCER clubs have lost the spot light like those Aussie rules teams in WA and SA with the start of AFL.

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!


When the VFL changed to AFL not one club got culled they all still remained in the new AFL.


Read my post again - you will see I was specifically referring to WA and SA teams that were culled.


The key difference between the transition from NSL to HAL and VFL (etc) to AFL was that one is from national comp to national comp, the other is from regional to national.

Aussie rules fans in SA and WA (as I understand it) were never part of a national competition, so didn't lose out in the transition - whereas members of the NSL were competing on the national stage and were very proud of that.
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BackFour wrote:
chris wrote:
Considering the money the game has received - results are extremely poor - there has been little if any penetration


The only basis of comparison is to NSL - and on every statistic HAL is streets ahead.

Seriously mate you have to do better than that.


Perhaps if you look at the half of the statement that you DIDN'T highlight you'll see why Chris feels the HAL should be having greater impact than the NSL did.
General Ashnak
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As a SANFL follower we did not have a single team culled, the SANFL blocked the inclusion of Port Adelaide, that is all.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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General Ashnak wrote:
BackFour wrote:
cro69 wrote:
In creating the AFL all other state codes including the VFL were dumped, and yes there were howls of criticism but the code is stronger having made these changes - So to HAL is no different, many OLD SOCCER clubs have lost the spot light like those Aussie rules teams in WA and SA with the start of AFL.

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!


When the VFL changed to AFL not one club got culled they all still remained in the new AFL.


Read my post again - you will see I was specifically referring to WA and SA teams that were culled.

The SANFL clubs were not culled.


My point is tihey were not allowed into the TOP tier AFL competition, just as SMFC and the other were not admitted to HAL - call it what you will but the supporters and administrators were just as irate.

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BackFour wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
BackFour wrote:
cro69 wrote:
In creating the AFL all other state codes including the VFL were dumped, and yes there were howls of criticism but the code is stronger having made these changes - So to HAL is no different, many OLD SOCCER clubs have lost the spot light like those Aussie rules teams in WA and SA with the start of AFL.

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!


When the VFL changed to AFL not one club got culled they all still remained in the new AFL.


Read my post again - you will see I was specifically referring to WA and SA teams that were culled.

The SANFL clubs were not culled.


My point is tihey were not allowed into the TOP tier AFL competition, just as SMFC and the other were not admitted to HAL - call it what you will but the supporters and administrators were just as irate.

As I said, Port Adelaide was asked to join the AFL and the SANFL blocked the move.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

BackFour
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Benjamin wrote:
BackFour wrote:
chris wrote:
Considering the money the game has received - results are extremely poor - there has been little if any penetration


The only basis of comparison is to NSL - and on every statistic HAL is streets ahead.

Seriously mate you have to do better than that.


Perhaps if you look at the half of the statement that you DIDN'T highlight you'll see why Chris feels the HAL should be having greater impact than the NSL did.


Results are what count BEN - As the saying goes " I know half my advertising is wasted but I don't know which half" that doesn't stop me advertising because I know it works.
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Im the 1st to admit the NSL wasnt perfect but if NSL clubs had as much back up as HAL clubs do these days the NSL would of been in better postion then HAL clubs are today!! Im only going by how the old NSL budgets were. If the Knight's paid Viduka $700,000 a season like some players in this league might be getting, instead of the 60,000 od he got mabe he would of stayed an extra 3 or 4 years in the NSL.

Edited by cro69: 20/4/2012 02:09:06 PM
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cro69 wrote:
Im the 1st to admit the NSL wasnt perfect but if NSL clubs had as much back up as HAL clubs do these days the NSL would of been in better postion then HAL clubs are today!!


An NSL GF final with 50,000 people at ETIHAD - you must be dreaming
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I did say it wasnt perfect just stating the difference in marketing support, tv deals, money and i know it would of been a better comp to watch going by the shoestring budgets there were on and the talent they had on the park.Dont forget that MVFC had about 14,000 in their 1st season if they didnt turn the results around like they did in season 2 14,000 would of mabe been 9,000, but when you pull a good squad together and start playing good football people will come. Just like when Viduka and co were playing the knights increased there supporter base by about 5,000 those 2 years.
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I think we should allow some of the ethnic teams in, but ban the European ones.
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There are no more ethnic clubs anyway their all aussie teams now and have been since 1993!!lol
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cro69 wrote:
I did say it wasnt perfect just stating the difference in marketing support, tv deals, money and i know it would of been a better comp to watch going by the shoestring budgets there were on and the talent they had on the park.Dont forget that MVFC had about 14,000 in their 1st season if they didnt turn the results around like they did in season 2 14,000 would of mabe been 9,000, but when you pull a good squad together and start playing good football people will come. Just like when Viduka and co were playing the knights increased there supporter base by about 5,000 those 2 years.


The issue with this logic is that the money would likely never have started rolling in to support any of these things without a new league. The very reason that there was not the financial support, and subsequently smaller budgets, is that the NSL was damaged goods, and TV broadcasters, sponsors and many potential fans did not want to touch it.

Its about maximising potential revenues and supporter bases, to appeal to the broadest demographic profile possible. Some things are just not as simple as first meet the eye.




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RedEyeRob wrote:
Arthur wrote:
paulc wrote:
Ethnic viiolence will hit you anywhere, in any sport. It's risk. But let's not pretend these nationalistic fanatics fighting for their cause are not entrenched in Australian (ethnic) soccer clubs, that's where they thrive.....




And what about if I start pulling out all the incidents at the A-League.

Is that kind of violence okay?

I said it before YOU have fallen for the Media trap about our game and the fact that so many WOGS support it.

Wake up.

Edited by Arthur: 19/4/2012 06:40:33 PM


I'd advise you best ignore these repetitive posts about ethnic violence from paulc.

They have been addressed several times and he offers no counter-responses because he has none.


- ethnic violence (eg: NSL)

- geographic violence (eg: as we see today in the HAL)

- political violence (eg: Cairo recently)

- religious violence (eg: Celtic/Rangers Old Firm Darby)

- racial violence (eg: several parts of Serie A and EPL)


IT ALL EQUALS ONE AND THE SAME THING:

VIOLENCE.


I do not wish to bandy about the term "racist" on a whim, but these are the FACTS before us. All forms of violence in football are unacceptable, both what happened in the NSL and what happens today at almost every Melbourne Victory/Adelaide United game.

People who do not differentiate between these as a reason to exclude an NSL club from joining the HAL are clearly racist human beings and i think most people on here would prefer they were not involved in our game.


Classic post. I've already said all types of violence is unacceptable however your comments are akin to a local in Sao Paolo, Johannesburg or Columbia saying, well there's crime in Australia too :lol:

In a resort somewhere

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notorganic wrote:
I think we should allow some of the ethnic teams in, but ban the European ones.


Which are teams such as......
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We all know that we are just compareing if the NSL had all this money or lack of it that HAL clubs have!!lol
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BackFour wrote:
Arthur wrote:
BackFour wrote:

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 01:35:06 PM


No you have it wrong B4 its about those who disrespect what we had and belittle anything to do with what was before. That is imaturity let's not forget who started this topic.

Seriously was there a need to.

So who should Grow Up?


Please point out a specific passage where I have denigrated the contribution of OLD SOCCER to the establishment and survival of the game.

Did I say you did? Did I not say "Those"?

You will not find one - I have great respect for it's contribution, but also am realistic enough to see it's problems.

I could make a list of what the problems of the NSL where, but the ethniciy debate is boring and crass.

You are now clutching at straws given the failings of your arguments and lack of substance in your position on this debate.

Now thats a laugh B4, once again my argument is simple, the FFA should have an a set of criteria that is open, transparent and an independant assesment of entry into the A-League.

What is wrong with that?


My support of HAL over OLD SOCCER is not a sign of disrespect - it's a vote for progress

Sorry your arguement for exclusion is one based on the assumption that clubs with ethnic heritage come with violent tendancies.


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aufc_ole wrote:
notorganic wrote:
I think we should allow some of the ethnic teams in, but ban the European ones.


Which are teams such as......


Wellington Phoenix?
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So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?
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Arthur wrote:
BackFour wrote:
Arthur wrote:
BackFour wrote:

Progress has it's casualties - the change is for the better and painting the progressives as racist for supporting the HAL at the expense of OLD SOCCER is as childish and as it is offensive.

Grow UP!!!!!!!!

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 01:35:06 PM


No you have it wrong B4 its about those who disrespect what we had and belittle anything to do with what was before. That is imaturity let's not forget who started this topic.

Seriously was there a need to.

So who should Grow Up?


Please point out a specific passage where I have denigrated the contribution of OLD SOCCER to the establishment and survival of the game.

Did I say you did? Did I not say "Those"?

You will not find one - I have great respect for it's contribution, but also am realistic enough to see it's problems.

I could make a list of what the problems of the NSL where, but the ethniciy debate is boring and crass.

You are now clutching at straws given the failings of your arguments and lack of substance in your position on this debate.

[Fcolor=red]Now thats a laugh B4, once again my argument is simple, the FFA should have an a set of criteria that is open, transparent and an independant assesment of entry into the A-League.
f
What is wrong with that?[/color]

My support of HAL over OLD SOCCER is not a sign of disrespect - it's a vote for progress
j
Sorry your arguement for exclusion is one based on the [size=9]assumption[/size] that clubs with ethnic heritage come with violent tendancies.





it is not an assumption it is a FACT that the NSL had a violent Image, I have never said clubs come with a "violent tendencies" they are your words. I would never categorise all fans of all NSL clubs in this way-
However you trying to rewrite history on 442 is delusional and misguided.
The majority here who believe the NSL had a violent image - unlike yourself don't need to defend the indefensible because the FACTS are clearly demonstrable.

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 03:01:18 PM

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 03:07:41 PM

Edited by backfour: 20/4/2012 03:09:40 PM
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cro69 wrote:
So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?

They refuse to answer this question because it doesn't suit the agenda.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
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General Ashnak wrote:
cro69 wrote:
So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?

They refuse to answer this question because it doesn't suit the agenda.




OH thats right that isnt VIOLENCE!!!HAHAHA](*,) ](*,) but if it was the ethnic's must of started it?lol
samb
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cro69 wrote:
So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?

Over the last 7 years or so of the a-league, there hasn't been much notable violence. Its not like at every game a riot breaks out. That's actually a pretty unanswerable and badly worded question, to be honest.

Edited by samb: 20/4/2012 03:08:05 PM
paulc
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General Ashnak wrote:
cro69 wrote:
So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?

They refuse to answer this question because it doesn't suit the agenda.


Both of you dodos should read past posts to get your answer, not fabricate one and then pat each other on the back.





In a resort somewhere

General Ashnak
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samb wrote:
cro69 wrote:
So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?

Over the last 7 years or so of the a-league, there hasn't been much notable violence. Its not like at every game a riot breaks out. That's actually a pretty unanswerable and badly worded question, to be honest.

Edited by samb: 20/4/2012 03:08:05 PM

My point I have been raising is that there is a long and well documented history of violence between sporting teams and fans from South Australia and Victoria. Why is that not an issue?

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

General Ashnak
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paulc wrote:
General Ashnak wrote:
cro69 wrote:
So violence that occurs between ADL UTD vs MVFC and SFC vs MVFC and other known clashes in the HAL is ethnic,religious,state vs state or all of the above?lol because i dont know if you guy's havnt noticed but there is no ethnic teams in the A League!! so why is there still violence at the games still?

They refuse to answer this question because it doesn't suit the agenda.


Both of you dodos should read past posts to get your answer, not fabricate one and then pat each other on the back.

As a South Australian I can remember the violence between our teams and Victorian teams. There is nothing made up about it.

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

notorganic
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I once flykicked a guy through a mesh fence in Adelaide because he spat on me.

I should have asked what ethnicity he was.
GO


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