JayEss
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Rogic on after 68 minutes
Edited by JayEss: 5/5/2013 10:31:14 PM
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Socceroofan4life
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Rogic on for celtic
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grazorblade
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Rogic on. Commentators have an impressive knowledge of rogic and the a league
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playmaker11
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Socceroofan4life wrote:playmaker11 wrote:Frankfurt down 4-0 at HT. Leckie unable to do much. Looks like they'll miss the play-off. I thought they still had two more games left? or is this a must win? They really needed a result. K'slautern will be 5 points ahead with 2 relatively easy games left. Frankfurt now must win the next 2 and hope K'slautern and Koln drop points.
By now, American Samoa must have realised that Australias 22-0 win over Tonga two days earlier was no fluke.
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JayEss
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Laughable. Rogic played wide at left mid and then was moved out wide at right mid. Barely touched the ball due to all the hoofing, finally gets on the ball and beats two players and sets up a counter attack (deep in his own half) which fizzles out.
Needs to get out of there. Same old story every time he gets on the park.
Edited by JayEss: 5/5/2013 10:54:19 PM
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libertarian
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JayEss wrote:Laughable. Rogic played wide at left mid and then was moved out wide at right mid. Barely touched the ball due to all the hoofing, finally gets on the ball and beats two players and sets up a counter attack (deep in his own half) which fizzles out.
Needs to get out of there. Same old story every time he gets on the park.
Edited by JayEss: 5/5/2013 10:54:19 PM I was amazed when people said Celtic was a good move.
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libertarian
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I don't think it's a given that Holman will leave Aston Villa either. I think his disappointment has been overstated and Villa wouldn't likely get much for him. They have higher priorities when it comes to moving on high wage players.
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quickflick
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I certainly wasn't thrilled when I heard that Tom Rogic was being signed by Celtic. I was equally unimpressed by the prospect of him being signed by sides on the verge of relegation in the English Premier League. Guys, it's all about the nuances. He had to leave the A-League. There was nothing he could get out of it. His technical ability, awareness and athleticism were such that he outstripped those in the A-League and, being slightly older than the younger players in Europe, it really was time for him to go to Europe.
But he should have gone to Holland or Germany. Somewhere like Utrecht would have been a the perfect stepping stone club. Or even a lower club in the Eredivisie. He'd get the training and match experience necessary. And it wouldn't be such a big club that he'd be on the fringe of the side. I really hope that he sees sense and tries to make his way to Holland (ideally).
If he did that and tore it up in Holland, then the Bundesliga or the EPL would beckon.
Also, I pray Tommy Oar doesn't go to some EPL struggler.
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GloryPerth
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You are right libertarian, absolutely. That's also why he's only one I disagreed with in that blog. He's a 'relative success' at Villa too, compared to most of the others - bar Bent. The others are all kinds of category of 'failure.' Talking of SPL - That's probably where Hutton is best to return to! Speaking of Villa, can't wait till Herd gets back. Back, fit and firing next season and for the 'roos too! HOPEFULLY! Edit: Indeed quickflick, but it, in the end, 'depends on the offers on the table.' Apparently QPR was one offer, but that would've been a far greater disaster! I 'think' from vague memory, a club in Portugal 'may've' been linked or what not? Not sure. But he had 3-4 clubs strongly attached and clubs like QPR even made offers I think? But don't recall any from 'ideal' or 'appropriate' destinations like Eredivisie, Bundesliga or the like. He had that move to Reading after the 'Nike Chance' thing, but it was probably for best red tape stopped that, as that's how he saw his 'chance' with the Mariners and success that way. Cash strapped Mariners got their $750k or what not, too. libertarian wrote:JayEss wrote:Laughable. Rogic played wide at left mid and then was moved out wide at right mid. Barely touched the ball due to all the hoofing, finally gets on the ball and beats two players and sets up a counter attack (deep in his own half) which fizzles out.
Needs to get out of there. Same old story every time he gets on the park.
Edited by JayEss: 5/5/2013 10:54:19 PM I was amazed when people said Celtic was a good move. Thanks for the report, but geez makes us even more miserable! :p Any light in that tunnel? This toil, and the SPL is very much a toil (I think Aaron Mooy experienced this too!), better count for something, lol. People mentioned how Dukes went to Celtic etc... But Dukes being a striker, kept bagging goals and you bag goals most places, you get noticed. Maybe play him as striker? FFS He's better than that Anthony Stokes - That guy had 1on1 in the box and just hopeless and slow, Ross County defender easily hoofs it away from his feet! Stokes never looked like beating him! We all remember how Rogic rounded that keeper for one of his goals in that route! Edited by GloryPerth: 5/5/2013 11:56:42 PM
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Roar_Brisbane
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libertarian wrote:I don't think it's a given that Holman will leave Aston Villa either. I think his disappointment has been overstated and Villa wouldn't likely get much for him. They have higher priorities when it comes to moving on high wage players. Yea I think it's being overstated as well but don't forget that he is one of the old coaches signings and that he was picked up on a free. Might be a chance for the club to make a tiny bit of profit.
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dr. bellows
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GloryPerth wrote:You are right libertarian, absolutely. That's also why he's only one I disagreed with in that blog. He's a 'relative success' at Villa too, compared to most of the others - bar Bent. The others are all kinds of category of 'failure.' Talking of SPL - That's probably where Hutton is best to return to! Speaking of Villa, can't wait till Herd gets back. Back, fit and firing next season and for the 'roos too! HOPEFULLY! Edit: Indeed quickflick, but it, in the end, 'depends on the offers on the table.' Apparently QPR was one offer, but that would've been a far greater disaster! I 'think' from vague memory, a club in Portugal 'may've' been linked or what not? Not sure. But he had 3-4 clubs strongly attached and clubs like QPR even made offers I think? But don't recall any from 'ideal' or 'appropriate' destinations like Eredivisie, Bundesliga or the like.He had that move to Reading after the 'Nike Chance' thing, but it was probably for best red tape stopped that, as that's how he saw his 'chance' with the Mariners and success that way. Cash strapped Mariners got their $750k or what not, too. libertarian wrote:JayEss wrote:Laughable. Rogic played wide at left mid and then was moved out wide at right mid. Barely touched the ball due to all the hoofing, finally gets on the ball and beats two players and sets up a counter attack (deep in his own half) which fizzles out.
Needs to get out of there. Same old story every time he gets on the park.
Edited by JayEss: 5/5/2013 10:54:19 PM I was amazed when people said Celtic was a good move. Thanks for the report, but geez makes us even more miserable! :p Any light in that tunnel? This toil, and the SPL is very much a toil (I think Aaron Mooy experienced this too!), better count for something, lol. People mentioned how Dukes went to Celtic etc... But Dukes being a striker, kept bagging goals and you bag goals most places, you get noticed. Maybe play him as striker? FFS He's better than that Anthony Stokes - That guy had 1on1 in the box and just hopeless and slow, Ross County defender easily hoofs it away from his feet! Stokes never looked like beating him! We all remember how Rogic rounded that keeper for one of his goals in that route! Edited by GloryPerth: 5/5/2013 11:56:42 PM There was interest from Brugge, according to reports. I don't know whether an offer was tabled. That would have been his best move of the options I saw. Good development league, successful club, regularly competing in Europe as well. Assuming Brugge tabled an offer, I can only imagine the reason he opted for Celtic instead was financial - transfer fee and personal terms. Edited by dr. bellows: 6/5/2013 12:48:46 AM
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quickflick
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By the way, even if poor old Tommy Rogic is only getting piecemeal kind of time from Celtic, it's still worth starting with him in the Socceroos match against Japan. There's a certain type of player who's so talented (so quick and technically adept) that even if they haven't been playing loads recently, they're still quite a bit better than everybody else. I feel Rogic is such a player. I didn't see the latest Celtic game, but somebody mentioned that when Rogic got the ball, when it was being bombed forward, he beat a couple of opposition players at once and set up a counter-attack or something. That really sums him up. Even though he hasn't been given the opportunity to play like that (as is natural to his talents), he took that opportunity and did it perfectly well.
(Now for what Holger should do, but won't do) Rogic should start for the Socceroos. Whether he plays centre attacking midfield or holding midfield is another thing (he deserves the attacking mid position, he's best there, he can make the final ball and beat defenders there, but we do need a creative holding midfielder alongside Jedinak, on the other hand). If things work out, with Rogic playing regularly for the Socceroos (especially if we qualify for the World Cup), then maybe Dutch and German clubs will express interest and, contractual obligations aside, he can go somewhere more suited to his game (and the game of cerebral footballers, generally).
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GloryPerth
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Indeed Quickflick, that's all he can do. It's not just talent, managers appreciate professionalism and attitude. British managers etc... especially appreciate hard work and work rate. We Aussies, we don't shirk this stuff and Rogic won't either. So atleast his rep improves and worst case, his manager, Neil Lennon, puts in the good word/past employer reference, when it comes to Rogic's next move. I guess the reality still is - he ONLY just arrived a couple months or so ago. He was a mid-season signing! I think we over-react to a degree. The football may be typically crap, but he's FEATURING, despite only joining recent times. We've seen many and still see Aussies take a full season or even two of toiling in Reserves before getting a chance or having to transfer/be released! With a full, Celtic, pre-season coming up, it will be next season, with off-season ins and outs, which could be his time to shine. dr. bellows wrote:GloryPerth wrote:...Indeed quickflick, but it, in the end, 'depends on the offers on the table.' Apparently QPR was one offer, but that would've been a far greater disaster! I 'think' from vague memory, a club in Portugal 'may've' been linked or what not? Not sure. But he had 3-4 clubs strongly attached and clubs like QPR even made offers I think?
But don't recall any from 'ideal' or 'appropriate' destinations like Eredivisie, Bundesliga or the like.
He had that move to Reading after the 'Nike Chance' thing, but it was probably for best red tape stopped that, as that's how he saw his 'chance' with the Mariners and success that way. Cash strapped Mariners got their $750k or what not, too.
There was interest from Brugge, according to reports. I don't know whether an offer was tabled. That would have been his best move of the options I saw. Good development league, successful club, regularly competing in Europe as well. Assuming Brugge tabled an offer, I can only imagine the reason he opted for Celtic instead was financial - transfer fee and personal terms. Edited by dr. bellows: 6/5/2013 12:48:46 AM Hmm yeah, I saw that on the Wiki too, but it's source url was dead link or whatever. So we can't know, as always with speculation rife at the time, which clubs are JUST rumours, and of those actually interested, what degree of interest each of those have. We also don't know if clubs, especially the smaller league ones like Brugge, may've been put off once the transfer chase/bids came in. Clubs may've been 'interested' but come bidding like $1M may be a jump too far for some. It's likely a few may've wanted to see him on trial first or only for trial? But bidding escalates things. Also, the ones bidding are obviously the keenest and tbh in a football player's career, financial assurance or what not - The pay packet at these UK clubs can be appealing, I'm sure. And a 'name club' like Celtic would, honestly, be hard to turn down. But again, reading the wiki with the dead link, the two lower la Liga sides and Brugge 'sound' as if he DID have some options. But again, the devil is in the details. In the end, it's all hindsight - he's there and he's got to work to impress his manager, prove to him he's more valuable, even out of position. Anything to get game time and improve his reputation. Toil now, hopefully greater rewards later. Edited by GloryPerth: 6/5/2013 02:01:34 AM
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quickflick
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GloryPerth wrote:Indeed Quickflick, that's all he can do. It's not just talent, managers appreciate professionalism and attitude. British managers etc... especially appreciate hard work and work rate.
We Aussies, we don't shirk this stuff and Rogic won't either. So atleast his rep improves and worst case, his manager, Neil Lennon, puts in the good word/past employer reference, when it comes to Rogic's next move.
I guess the reality still is - he ONLY just arrived a couple months or so ago. He was a mid-season signing! I think we over-react to a degree. The football may be typically crap, but he's FEATURING, despite only joining recent times. We've seen many and still see Aussies take a full season or even two of toiling in Reserves before getting a chance or having to transfer/be released!
With a full, Celtic, pre-season coming up, it will be next season, with off-season ins and outs, which could be his time to shine.
Edited by GloryPerth: 6/5/2013 02:01:34 AM To be honest, the best case scenario, not the worst case scenario, might be if Neil Lennon decides he doesn't fit in with Celtic's methods and style and gives him a good word before sending him on to another club (hopefully top tier Dutch or German), imo. I fear that Lennon will like him, but in the capacity where it's not conducive for Rogic's skills and such that he doesn't improve. The upshot would be that Rogic languishes as a talented but unestablished player for Celtic. He'd be sort of in limbo. In terms of knocking the SPL. Obviously technically and in terms of awareness, it's miles behind Spain, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands. So for a player whose game is built around those all important things, such as Rogic, it's the worst place for them. But for a robust striker or central defender, it's not such a bad place to be. If I were a striker or a defender, hoping to become a world class footballer, I'd choose a club from one of those Continental European countries I mentioned. But big strikers and defenders can do quite well in the SPL. Viduka did, as did Craig Moore and Kevin Muscat. I imagine Herd or Lowry would do well int he SPL. Although I prefer your quicker, smarter players, one has to appreciate the merits of those kind of "enforcer" players. The trouble is that Rogic is a quicker, smarter kind of player and that's why the SPL is not for him.
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grazorblade
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I still think Celtic is a good move. He is getting regular enough time and will get more next year but he can learn a lot from this league. His mobility has improved a lot and I expect His fitness and defense to do so as well. He should play a season or two and move
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Voice ofReason
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Another big Sunday with some big names in men's and women's football in action http://osaussies.com/sunday-wrap-31/
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johnszasz
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Weidenfeller has signed a new deal at BVB until 2016. In over 500 online comments on various new pages etc, not one mention of Langerak. Not even a mention of him being a worthy replacement. Time to move on I say. If Giefer goes to Schalke, I say move to Dusseldorf if they don't go down. Maybe he can get loaned out to Braunschweig for a year? Furth will need someone decent to try and gain promotion again. Maybe a loan only then.
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Voice ofReason
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A fair few Aussies in action overnight for a Monday http://osaussies.com/monday-wrap-29/
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GloryPerth
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johnszasz wrote:Weidenfeller has signed a new deal at BVB until 2016. In over 500 online comments on various new pages etc, not one mention of Langerak. Not even a mention of him being a worthy replacement. Time to move on I say. If Giefer goes to Schalke, I say move to Dusseldorf if they don't go down. Maybe he can get loaned out to Braunschweig for a year? Furth will need someone decent to try and gain promotion again. Maybe a loan only then. I wonder - my beloved Hertha Berlin... What you think of their Goalkeeping situation? Pretty secure I'd say, given they pretty much blitzed their way BACK into the Bundesliga AGAIN (Yipeee!) - albeit they have been one hell of a yo-yo club last few seasons. I relish the day they become a Super Club of the Bundesliga (Screw Bayern!) and Europe. Where the major Berlin club and major club of the former East German region (Though it was West Berlin club), should be! Too bad it didn't work out for Ruka there btw, but flipside Hertha could've done better and they kind of have. My local parochialism hat on, I like it when they recruit or bring back more 'Berlin talent' or East German region talent. So much top young talent from that region poached by the big West German clubs! I see Peer Kluge and co were key players in their successful run this season too! Sorry big tangent there. :p
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johnszasz
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GloryPerth wrote:johnszasz wrote:Weidenfeller has signed a new deal at BVB until 2016. In over 500 online comments on various new pages etc, not one mention of Langerak. Not even a mention of him being a worthy replacement. Time to move on I say. If Giefer goes to Schalke, I say move to Dusseldorf if they don't go down. Maybe he can get loaned out to Braunschweig for a year? Furth will need someone decent to try and gain promotion again. Maybe a loan only then. I wonder - my beloved Hertha Berlin... What you think of their Goalkeeping situation? Pretty secure I'd say, given they pretty much blitzed their way BACK into the Bundesliga AGAIN (Yipeee!) - albeit they have been one hell of a yo-yo club last few seasons. I relish the day they become a Super Club of the Bundesliga (Screw Bayern!) and Europe. Where the major Berlin club and major club of the former East German region (Though it was West Berlin club), should be! Too bad it didn't work out for Ruka there btw, but flipside Hertha could've done better and they kind of have. My local parochialism hat on, I like it when they recruit or bring back more 'Berlin talent' or East German region talent. So much top young talent from that region poached by the big West German clubs! I see Peer Kluge and co were key players in their successful run this season too! Sorry big tangent there. :p Kraft is adequate for the top league but there are much better keepers. I admire Oliver Baumann at Freiburg. If he goes to Schalke then maybe Langerak can move to Freiburg.
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JayEss
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On tommy rogic, he played the full 90 for the U20's this morning, and at attacking mid..they lost 2-1. From the match report it sounds like he was dangerous and grabbed an assist early in the game.
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rusty
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grazorblade wrote:I still think Celtic is a good move. He is getting regular enough time and will get more next year but he can learn a lot from this league. His mobility has improved a lot and I expect His fitness and defense to do so as well. He should play a season or two and move Celtic is a great move. They are a big club and if he breaks into the first team and does well he will put himself in the shop window for the biggest clubs in Europe. He'll also get champions league football which he wouldn't experience playing for a lesser team in Germany or Holland.
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Barca4Life
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I wonder what has happened to Jason Davidson? He was playing regularly in Holland earlier this season and also was selected for the Socceroos, and now he's in the reserves for Hercules... I wonder why?
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grazorblade
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Barca4Life wrote:I wonder what has happened to Jason Davidson? He was playing regularly in Holland earlier this season and also was selected for the Socceroos, and now he's in the reserves for Hercules... I wonder why? Maybe he lost confidence after scoring an own goal for Australia. That would be quite an emotional experience for a youngster. I know it's a different sport but Darren Lockyer and karmichael hunt both dropped the ball with their first touch. I remember the team huddle as they all got around him after the mistake so they wouldn't lose confidence. Then in the after game interviews they were passionately defended. This generational transition couldn't have been handled worse if someone paid Holger to sabotage it. Ce la vie I have every confidence Davidson will start next year for his club he is quite good
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Barca4Life
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grazorblade wrote:Barca4Life wrote:I wonder what has happened to Jason Davidson? He was playing regularly in Holland earlier this season and also was selected for the Socceroos, and now he's in the reserves for Hercules... I wonder why? Maybe he lost confidence after scoring an own goal for Australia. That would be quite an emotional experience for a youngster. I know it's a different sport but Darren Lockyer and karmichael hunt both dropped the ball with their first touch. I remember the team huddle as they all got around him after the mistake so they wouldn't lose confidence. Then in the after game interviews they were passionately defended. This generational transition couldn't have been handled worse if someone paid Holger to sabotage it. Ce la vie I have every confidence Davidson will start next year for his club he is quite good I believe that too, he quite a good player from what I've seen him with Hercules.
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Voice ofReason
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@OSAussies: Check out all the action from Tuesday with our OS Aussies wrap http://t.co/zvBFHKJWLP http://t.co/npeIWjj0Gs
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GloryPerth
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That's true too Rusty - So we shouldn't down the Celtic move 'too much.' And again, they're a big European club and to be noticed there can equal 'noticed' in alot of other places. 'Can' be a short cut to an even bigger club/league too. We also shouldn't expect instant success for Rogic, despite how fast everything has happened. He only joined in January/Feb and was already making his debut off the bench, come late February. It's all timed fairly right for Rogic in a way. He's still young, but not so young that he'd be plonked in the reserves or constantly riding the pine - AKA his Celtic team mate and fellow Aussie midfielder, Jackson Irvine! And through the A-League he also had enough experience, league domineering experience, that it translates into sooner senior football reckoning than perhaps others. So it's NOT been a backwards move by any means, UNLIKE so many other young Aussies (Majority infact), who go from being 'A-League stars' to toiling away at Reserve level or struggling for any football at all, for the next few seasons. Like 1 step forward, 2 steps back. So Rogic has already shown his quality, by transitioning into the senior team so soon. I'm sure his physique helps too, being tall and getting stronger, especially in that league. Barca4Life wrote:I wonder what has happened to Jason Davidson? He was playing regularly in Holland earlier this season and also was selected for the Socceroos, and now he's in the reserves for Hercules... I wonder why? IIRC he was 'filling in' at CB earlier in the season, due to injuries or what not. I guess by mid-season they had sorted their CB problem and he was back to the bench. It's quite a worry indeed. He only just joined the club start of this season or end of last, in the hope of securing more senior football than his time in Portugal. And at 22 going 23 next season, he's not getting any younger. He needs the senior football. Definitely our best LB/LWB prospect IMHO. Edited by GloryPerth: 8/5/2013 06:35:43 PM
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Voice ofReason
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Do yourself a favor and take a look at this great analytical piece on Kruse to Leverkusen http://t.co/5VK28GmGu6
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Voice ofReason
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Another busy Wednesday for our OS Aussies http://osaussies.com/wednesday-wrap-28/
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Socceroofan4life
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Is there any way for James Troisi to end his loan early? He hasn't been played for months.
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